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bossy22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-08 07:11 PM
Original message
More from the Brady Bunch
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ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-08 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. You know you are in for an entertaining read...
... when the first sentence of the Executive Summary is a lie.
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wartrace Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. Firearm homicides committed with rifles? 3%
There is no reason to ban the so called "assault weapon". The only reason it is an issue is the fact that a ban on handguns is political suicide. Handguns are used in over 85% of all gun homicides yet the Brady Bunch is targeting "assault weapons"??????????

I find it humorous that they showed a Steyr-aug in their slide show. A weapon that costs 2,500 dollars is going to be used in street crime?

You know what, call me when gun homicides committed by criminals using assault weapons hit 6% of all gun homicides maybe we should be concerned.

The gun grabbers are a real millstone the Democratic party is forced to drag to every election. They hurt more than they help. A bunch of idiots who think that a criminal will somehow obey a gun law while committing another crime. I have a low tolerance for idiots, the party should show them the respect they deserve as well.
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bossy22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I would like to know
how many crimes were actually commited with a steyr aug
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-08 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. There was a murder committd with one.
It's on an old episode of Law and Order.

mark
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-08 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. old mark for the win!
:rofl:
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-08 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Tejas - I really believe most antis get their gun "information"
from TV. And, most gun "information" on TV is completely wrong.

There ya go.

mark
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
24. A grand total of four crimes with Steyr AUGs in 1993
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Hey, did you know the SKS is an assault weapon?
Edited on Fri Oct-17-08 12:14 PM by AtheistCrusader
What with it's fixed, internal, 10 round magazine and all?

Man, I had no idea. Glad I wasted time reading this report.

Edit: Oh hey, they cite the Tyler Texas Courthouse shooting where a bystander with an assault weapon of his own interrupted the shooting. He was killed, but his actions put the shooter on the run, and saved the life of the boy. Can't cite a copy of the article that includes any of that because it doesn't fit the agenda of the day.

Edit2: Arroyo used a MAK-90, not an SKS.
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gorfle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. blah blah blah
The simple facts are these:

1) All rifles, let alone assault rifles, are hardly ever used in homicides. Hands and feet kill more people than rifles do, according to FBI statistics.

2) Assault rifles are precisely the kinds of weapons our founders had in mind for civilian use when they penned the second amendment.

The Brady Bunch seems to make a great fuss that these rifles are not for "sporting use" and are only for "killing human beings". Yes, that is precisely what the second amendment is all about - killing human oppressors.





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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-08 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. But wait!! Theres MORE!!!!
From page 21 of the report:


• Senator Obama Opposes Assault Weapons for Civilians, While
Senator McCain Supports Them

Of the Presidential candidates, Senator Barack Obama supports banning
assault weapons. He also addressed the issue in his acceptance speech to the 2008
Democratic Convention, saying, "The reality of gun ownership may be different for
hunters in rural Ohio than they are for those plagued by gang violence in Cleveland,
but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of
the hands of criminals."

Senator John McCain has consistently opposed an assault weapon ban, saying
it “represented an arbitrary restriction on the constitutional rights of law-abiding
citizens.”

http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/pdf/reports/mass-produced-mayhem.pdf page 21.

Is anyone really surprised that the republican founded, republican led brady bunch is saying this?


And of course, the bradys tell only HALF the story of the whole zumbo "terrorist rifles" affair, too.

Try to hold back the nausea, and take the time to read the entire report.


Theres some real whoppers in it, for example:

"Combat Hardware Commonly Found on Assault Weapons

Assault weapons generally include features that are useful for offensive assaults on
people, but have no sporting or self-defense function."


"flash suppressor

Reduces the flash from the barrel of the weapon, allowing the shooter to remain concealed when shooting at night. Also helps stabilize the weapon during rapid fire."

"pistol grip:

allows the weapon to be "spray fired" from the hip. Also helps stabilize the weapon during rapid fire."



I really DO wonder, if those posters that chastise other posters here for saying Obama wants to ban guns, will bother to chastise the brady bunch for saying so - SO close to the election.

I wont be holding my breath. It seems that some people and organizations get a free pass on thier lies hereabouts, even in spite of the facts that they be republicans and/or republican founded, republican led


Oh, and remember, Paul Helmke sez "We're not a gun ban organization. We don't push for gun bans."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/nra-gun-licensing-and-reg_b_110778.html?page=2&show_comment_id=14011823#comment_14011823

:rofl: :rofl::rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-08 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. This is funny. The only rifle I own with a pistol grip is a FAL,
an evil black rifle. It has a muzzle brake, not a flash supressor, to decrease recoil. It can not be "spray-fired" - is shoots once for every pull of the trigger.

FWIW, a flash supressor is designed to keep the glare of the muzzle flash from interfering with the vision of the shooter. What the hell is the problem with that?

It seems impossible, but these people get dumber every time I read something they put out.

Thanks for the OP.

mark
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tburnsten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. The problem with that
Is that it allows the shooter to more easily massacre his victims at night! It helps the shooter keep his night-vision, because there are no "sporting uses" or "self-defense uses" that might involve firing in less than brightly lit conditions.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-08 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Those wacky bradybunch folks...
From the report:


• Churchgoers gunned down in Colorado

On December 9, 2007, a man armed with an assault rifle attacked a missionary
training center in Arvada and a church in Colorado Springs. He killed two people and
injured two others in Arvada, and killed two and injured three others, including two
teenage sisters, in Colorado Springs. He was injured by a security guard and then shot
himself.

Injured by a security guard...

Injured? INJURED?

Anyone want to bet that instances of brady/helmke approving of the usage the word "injured" are very few and far between, when it comes to people being shot?

I'd really LOVE to see just one other example of brady/helmke using the word "injured" to describe someone shot 3 or 4 times at close distances with a handgun. Just one, please?


Bwahahahahahaha.


Only in brady/helmke-bizarroworld does the shooting of an agressor 3 or 4 times at close range by a volunteer unpaid security guard and the STOPPING that agressor before he can do more damage and the agressor subsequently taking his own life turn into "injured by a security guard and then shot himself."


Such spin doctors, Those wacky bradybunch folks.


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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
8. More ambiguity from the bradys...
Edited on Sat Oct-11-08 12:33 AM by beevul
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. May 3, 2008.
Officer Stephen Liczbinski was shot and killed by an
assault rifle as he was responding to a robbery at a
Bank of America branch. Three men robbed the bank
and were fleeing when Officer Liczbinski stopped their
car and exited his patrol car. At that time, one of the
bank robbers opened fire with an SKS assault rifle,
striking Liczbinski numerous times. One suspect was
eventually shot and killed by police and the other two
were arrested and charged with murder.

Isn't that the incident where the shooter was released like 50 years before he shoiuld have been?


My bad, it was only 44 years:

If Howard Cain had served his full sentence, he would've been in prison to 2052. He would not have murdered anyone in 2008.

See "Who freed the cop-killers?" :

http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/20080508_Who_freed_the_cop-killers_.html


And then theres also this:

Chantilly, Virginia. May 8, 2006. A
teenager with an AK-47 and 5
handguns engaged in a firefight at a
police station in suburban Virginia,
killing Detective Vicky Armel
immediately and wounding two other
officers, one of whom, Officer Michael
Garbarino, died nine days later from
his injuries (FROM BRADY)

Information about this one varies:

The suspect had carjacked a van moments earlier and drove into the police station's back parking lot. The suspect exited the vehicle and opened fire with a hunting rifle on Master Police Officer Michael Garbarino, who was sitting in his patrol car, striking him five times.

Detective Armel, who was also in the parking lot, immediately engaged the suspect and exchanged shots with the man. She was fatally wounded during the exchange. Several officers who responded to the parking lot also exchanged shots with him, killing him. In addition to the hunting rifle, the suspect was armed with five handguns and another rifle.


http://www.odmp.org/officer/18306-detective-vicky-anne-owen-armel


Me, I'd say that odmp.org has far more credibility than the bradys, of course that by itself doesn't say much.


So the bradys are using these false/misleading/unrepresentative examples along with who knows how many more, to push a gun ban that really isn't a gun ban. :sarcasm:

Think about it, a gun ban that doesn't ban ALL guns, just isn't a gun ban, right? :sarcasm:

Better not to exercise your brains worrying about any of it, after all, even though his own org sez "We need to enact a new, stronger federal assault weapons ban to keep these
dangerous guns off the streets – a law that will ban all military-style weapons and with no sunset provision", Paul Helmke sez "We're not a gun ban organization. We don't push for gun bans."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/nra-gun-licensing-and-reg_b_110778.html?page=2&show_comment_id=14011823#comment_14011823


And believing words from republican mouths and statements from republican created, republican led orgs, is standard fare for DU right? :sarcasm:


On edit: The brady bunch sez in thier report:

Assault weapons, as opposed to hunting rifles, are commonly equipped with
some or all of the following combat features that have no sporting value:

• A high-capacity ammunition magazine enabling the shooter to
continuously fire dozens of rounds without reloading. Standard hunting
rifles are usually equipped with no more than three or four-shot
magazines.

• A folding or telescoping stock, which sacrifices accuracy for
concealability and for mobility in close combat.

• A pistol grip or thumbhole stock, which facilitates firing from the hip,
allowing the shooter to spray-fire the weapon. A pistol grip also helps
the shooter stabilize the firearm during rapid fire.

• A barrel shroud, which allows the shooter to grasp the barrel area to
stabilize the weapon, without incurring serious burns, during rapid fire.

• A flash suppressor, which allows the shooter to remain concealed
when shooting at night, an advantage in combat but unnecessary for
hunting or sporting purposes. In addition, the flash suppressor is useful
for providing stability during rapid fire, helping the shooter maintain
control of the firearm.

• A threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor
or silencer. A silencer is useful to assassins but clearly has no
purpose for sportsmen. Silencers are also illegal.

• A barrel mount designed to accommodate a bayonet, which
obviously serves no sporting purpose.

• A grenade launcher or flare launcher, neither of which could have
any sporting or self-defense purpose.

• A shortened barrel designed to reduce the length of an assault rifle to
make it more concealable. This reduces accuracy and range.

http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/pdf/reports/mass-produced-mayhem.pdf

The brady bunches misunderstanding/misrepresentation of the features I just quoted from thier pdf aside, anyone want to bet whether or not the brady bunch fact checked any of the incidents in thier "officers down" sidebar to see if any of the specific shootings were actually committed by people whos weapons had "some or all" of the features they list?


:rofl:
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DavidMS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-08 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. The Chantilly VA case you Cite...
IIRC, had less to do with the access to firearms (i.e. guns did not cause Kennedy to shoot the officers) than a lack of a good mental health care system.

Unfortunately the Brady Campaign does not appear to advocate for better mental health care availability as a means to reduce crime.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. fascinating

Unfortunately the Brady Campaign does not appear to advocate for better mental health care availability as a means to reduce crime.

It probably also doesn't advocate for better contraception availability as a means to reduce unwanted pregnancy.

The goal of the Brady Campaign is not to "reduce crime".

It is ... as its name says ... "to reduce gun violence".

Huh. Now here's some interesting info.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/factsheets/pdf/economic_costs.pdf
ECONOMIC COSTS OF GUN VIOLENCE
Medical costs of gun violence put a terrible burden on health service providers and
governments. When indirect costs of gun violence - loss of productivity, mental health treatment
and rehabilitation, legal and judicial costs - are figured in, gun violence costs the US at least
$100 billion annually.

If the health care system (and other sectors of the economy) weren't so busy coping with the economic fallout from firearms violence, maybe there would be a little more money to pay for mental health care.
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Indy Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-08 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
11. A good test for Heller

How are they going to argue that these firearms are not those types "typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes"?



*************************************************
From Heller Opinion

We therefore read Miller to say only that the Second Amendment does not protect those
weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes, such as short-barreled shotguns. That accords with the historical understanding of the scope of the right, see Part III, infra.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-08 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. They don't. They don't care aout anyone's "rights",
they only want to advance their agenda, and get to the point where the only ones with guns will be:
The Rich and well connected
Police
Military
and of course,
Criminals.

All others will be unarmed or in violation of the new regime.

AND: they have the right wingers convinced the anti's are all Dedmocrats and that all Democrats are anti's and will immediately confiscate all guns except as above.


mark
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-08 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. An unusual concept to stop the problem of "assault weapons"...
Why not treat drug gangs as terrorist organizations (which they are).

If a violent criminal with a record is caught with a "assault weapon" (or for that manner any firearm), impose a mandatory 30 year jail sentence. Allow no plea bargaining and no early release for good behavior. If your states prisons become overcrowded, send the violent convicts to Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Maricopa County, Arizona who likes to keep prisoners in tents wearing pink underwear.

Arpaio believes that inmates should be treated as harshly as legally possible to emphasize the punishment aspect of their incarceration. Thus, upon his initial election, Arpaio began instituting the controversial changes for which he would later become noted.

Arpaio began to serve inmates surplus food including outdated and oxidized green bologna<12> and limited meals to twice daily. Meal costs would be reduced to 90 cents per day; as of 2007 Arpaio states that he has managed to reduce costs to 30 cents per day. Certain food items were banned from the county jail, mainly coffee (which also reduced "coffee attacks" on corrections officers), but later salt and pepper were removed from the jail (at a purported taxpayer savings of $20,000/year).

Arpaio banned smoking in the county jail. He also removed pornographic magazines (the ban was later upheld in court) and weightlifting equipment. Entertainment was limited to G-rated movies; the cable TV system (mandated by court order) was blocked by Arpaio to limit viewing to those stations Arpaio deems to be "educational", mainly Animal Planet, Disney Channel, The Weather Channel, A&E, CNN, and the local government access channel.

Arpaio also instituted a program for inmates to study while in jail and to try to recover from drug abuse. Hard Knocks High lays claim as the only approved high school program in any American jail. Another jail program, called ALPHA, is aimed solely at getting inmates away from drug abuse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio

OK, I'm joking about Sheriff Joe Arpaio . Seriously, if we focused our gun control efforts on criminals with illegal weapons rather than honest citizens we might actually see some positive results.

Honest citizens with firearms, even "assault weapons", are not the problem. Criminals with firearms are. We can lick the misuse of firearms in our society. We need to focus our attention on the people causing the problem rather than the cosmetic details of the weapons citizens can own.

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Chevy05truck Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
17.  Obama will be on this!
Edited on Sun Oct-12-08 01:42 AM by Chevy05truck

Once Obama gets elected; I guarantee he will revert back to his solid anti- gun voting record. The first trouble that happens and he will be back to his' Chicago ways.


Taking Obamas word on the 2A is like believing Bush #1 when he said "read my lips"...
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. but sadly, you won't be here to collect on those bets



Sniff.

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dairydog91 Donating Member (520 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. Oh Boy!
I've already learned so much!

*Walmart has started to stock armor-piercing ammunition!
*Uzis are now "assault rifle pistols"!
*Barret .50 rifles are practical in close-range situations!
*Compacting a rifle's stock by 6 inches makes the rifle invisible to the naked eye!
*Flash suppressors completely eliminate muzzle flash!
*America is experiencing a wave of deadly bayonet attacks!
*Military calibers are exceptionally powerful rounds!
*On a related note, hunting ammunition is incapable of penetrating sheetrock!
*The AWB lowered crime rates, while at the same time it was circumvented by evil gun companies!
*Anyone who owns a gun with plastic furniture and doesn't kill someone with it is using the gun wrong!
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tburnsten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Now you see
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
23. Amendment II Democrats response on DailyKos
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. that Doc Gonzo's a smark cookie
Edited on Fri Oct-17-08 12:33 PM by iverglas


You'd do well to heed his/her words. Somebody who actually has a clue about the nature of "rights" seems to be a scarce commodity in your world; take advantage, you could learn something. Hey, invite him/her over here!

I wonder whether s/he is a he, and whether he's spoken for ...

That ChurchofBruce is no slouch either ... you don't do real well over there, do you? I wonder why that could be ... I wonder whether it has something to do with the general progressive bent of people who read and post there ...


editing after further reading:

Christ almighty. You state that a sexual assault victim is "making real progress" because some man somehow got her to go play with guns.

Astounding.

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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Victims of sexual assault should not live in fear
There are many who have been raped or otherwise assaulted who never shed their fear. Some of them even go mad.

If that woman is taking steps towards overcoming her post-assault fears, I do not see where this is anything but good.

Come on.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
25. Obama refuses to promise to veto the AWB so I must conclude he wants it renewed. n/t
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
29. Recommend
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