After we reinstate the Assault Weapons Ban, we need to...

[spin]

ban Hummers. They just look too military and people feel threatened by them.



and then jeeps.



and of course those big obnoxious pickup trucks.



and camouflage clothing.



Maybe we could make some exceptions for hunters.

[Duckhunter935]

1. Ban hunting

:sarcasm:

[Chulanowa]

2. Interesting

Y'know what's funny? Is the assault weapon ban is reinstated, you'll actually save a pretty penny per gun. After all, features such as folding stocks just weigh down the price tag for little more than cosmetic appeal.

just imagine. You can have your penis surrogate in your gun case AND an extra C-note in your wallet. Win-win, Rambo!

[bossy22]

4. yay

i guess we arent past the 3rd grade yet. Still making those penis jokes

[Chulanowa]

7. I'm sorry, I'm sorry

"Gun issues" always seem terribly silly to me.

For what it's worth, I don't think you folks are any worse or crazier than fursuiters. To each their own, right?

[tburnsten]

19. What's a 'fursuiter'?

They only seem silly to you because you don't have any personal interest in them and so retarded ideas can seem perfectly 'reasonable' or 'common sense'.

[spin]

6. Let's look at the last time the assault weapons ban was considered...

Assault Rifles Are Selling Like Blue-Chip Stocks
By RONALD SMOTHERS, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: March 17, 1989

''It's like the Oklahoma land rush,'' Mike Nichols, a gun collector, said as he stood in line here at Brock's Army Surplus store to buy one of the last semiautomatic assault weapons in stock. It was a Chinese-made SKS, a copy of the gun of his dreams, the AK-47 infantry rifle.

''I'll get this one because the price is going to go out of sight when they are all gone,'' he said, noting that the rifle could have been purchased for about $100 a month ago but now cost $299. ''You have a lot of people like me out here who aren't fascist but are just afraid that they won't have another chance to get these guns.''

************snip***********

In Montgomery, Ala., a gun shop owner who is normally angered at efforts at gun control, was laughing. The owner, Mark Pace of Bama Gun and Pawn Shop, said the Federal action and outcries from ''the national press'' had had an effect opposite of what had been intended.

''A few weeks ago, I couldn't give them away,'' he said of his stock of semiautomatic weapons. ''I had them in corners and all over the place until the national press created the demand. What they have done is put one in everybody's home.''
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE2DD143FF934A25750C0A96F948260

[Chulanowa]

8. See? The ban even helps your friendly neighborhood arms dealer!

And just think of the boon to the collection and secondhand markets!

Assault weapons ban = economic stimulus, baybee!

:rofl:

[spin]

10. Yes, the firearms industry and the dealers...

would do very well in the current recession (possibly depression).

[Chulanowa]

11. Them and the breweries

[appal_jack]

21. It will also help your friendly neighborhood Repub

"Assault weapons ban = economic stimulus, baybee!"

These days, so called "Assault Weapons" are selling quite well on their own, even without any AWB ban having picked up any momentum yet.

An AWB will also = victories in the 2010 Congressional elections for Republicans.

Is this something you desire, and if so, what are you doing here at a Democratic discussion board?

I envision future Democratic victories if the Dem Party hews closely to the Constitution as it enters a time of governing in the majority for the first time in the 21st Century. I dearly hope that our Party leaders don't blow this chance. Losing due to stupid ideas about gun control and willful violations of the 2nd Amendment would set back health care, unions, reproductive freedom, and many other civil rights back by further decades.

-app

[spin]

23. We have seen how the Repubs screwed things up...

but it may take more than four years to straighten things up.

The assault weapons ban failed because it was a "feel good" law that accomplish little. It also popularized the very weapons it was supposed to eliminate. True, the weapons manufacturers, retooled to manufacture the weapons without items such as bayonet mounts, but how many people were ever killed by bayonets fixed to assault weapons (in civilian life)?

The really surprising fact is how many Republicans voted for this bill:

Contrary to claims by many gun enthusiasts, the Federal Assault Weapons Ban's enactment was the result of a widescale bipartisan effort in Congress. H.R. 3355 passed with almost unanimous support from both sides of the isle. The bill in the House of Representatives was put up for a voice vote and approval was such that no individual votes were tallied, but majority support was obvious. In the Senate, only four senators voted against the ban, two democrats and two republicans. Statistically-speaking, a higher percentage of Republicans voted for the AWB than Democrats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_Weapons_Ban

And now they use the restatement of the law as a sludge hammer to beat Democrats with. This is one issue the Democrats should totally avoid and work to push through legislation which will help the middle and poor classes survive this economic downturn. If we do push for any gun laws, the laws should truly make a difference in curbing violence in our society and not merely be "feel good" measures.

If we waste time and effort passing another assault weapons ban or push for draconian gun measures like banning all semi-auto handguns we will suffer considerable losses in the mid term and the next election. Keeping the government out of Republican hands is far more important.

[appal_jack]

29. agreed

I agree that Democrats are not the consistent enemies of the 2nd Amendment nor are Republicans consistent friends of the 2nd Amendment. The 1986 closing of the NFA auto-registry (under Reagan), the confiscation of lawfully owned firearms during the Katrina crisis, and the new importation ban on barrels of military surplus firearms (these latter two under B*43) are a few examples (just off the top of my head) of how Republicans have limited and violated the 2nd Amendment. Meanwhile, Democrats have recently fielded candidates such as Gillibrand (NY) & Webb (VA) who are friends to 2nd Amendment rights.

However, in politics perception is everything. Right now Democrats are tarred as gun-grabbers and Repubs get to pose as friends of gun-owners' liberty. The surest way to exacerbate this perception would be for a new AWB (or similarly ill-conceived gun control legislation) to move through two Democratically-controlled houses of Congress, then get the signature of a new Democratic President.

Given the hundreds of already-enacted laws on the proper use, sale, and regulation of firearms, I would hope that our elected officials choose to focus their finite time and resources on the much more pressing issues of the day: jobs, health care, the environment, infrastructure, getting the government out of people's private lives, etc.

-app

[Chulanowa]

25. I want you to explain something to me

How is it the single-issue gun voters can one minute laugh at how the AWB bans nothing more than silly optional features like a folding stock and such, yet the very next moment claim that this is an evil and unprecedented assault on our 2nd amendment rights?

"Hah hah hah, this ban does nothing at all AND YET I MUST FROTHINGLY OPPOSE IT WITH EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING!!!!"

It really doesn't make any sense to me. And people dumb enough to buy into that line of thought all vote Republican anyway.

[spin]

27. The reason gun owners oppose an AWB is...

the absolute and shear stupidly of the law.

Weapons that were banned:

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

* Folding stock
* Conspicuous pistol grip
* Bayonet mount
* Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
* Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device which enables the launching or firing of rifle grenades)

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

* Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
* Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or silencer
* Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
* Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
* A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:

* Folding or telescoping stock
* Pistol grip
* Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
* Detachable magazine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_Weapons_Ban

It was merely a "feel good" law, a cheap way for politicians to look like they were doing something to combat gun violence without doing what was necessary (and expensive) to actually accomplish anything. The biggest accomplishments of the law was to make "assault weapons" popular and to give Republicans an issue to beat Democrats at the polls. (Amazing since more Repubs voted for the original AWB than Dems.)

The law had a chance to be extended. What happened?

On March 2, 2004, with 'sunset' of the ban on the horizon, assault weapon ban supporter Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) attached a ten-year extension to the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban to the Senate's Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. With the Feinstein amendment, the bill was voted down 8-90.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_Weapons_Ban

Seriously, as Democrats we can come up with new intelligent and well crafted laws that will reduce crime and violence. It's not rocket science. We need more police on the streets. We need to target criminal gangs at both the local and federal levels and treat these gangs as terrorist organizations. We need to tighten up the requirements for the legal purchase of firearms to exclude those with severe mental problems. We need to stop people from illegally carrying weapons on our streets by draconian punishment. We need to improve education and create good well paying jobs. We need to legalize some drugs to eliminate the profit motive of illegal drug dealing. We need more rehab programs for those addicted to drugs.

We don't need to shoot ourselves in the foot once again by pushing for another AWB.

[DeadEyeDyck]

46. I guess that my Christmas present...

LWRC with a telescopic stock, Pistol grip, front grip with bipod, flash suppressor, AimPoint dot optic sight, Laser sight, flash-light on forward grip qualifies me as an assualt weapon owner. I also keep over 1000 rounds of .223, just in case...

Would you want me for your neighbor? Mine do. But they all think like me. And we never fear a home invader where I live.

[spin]

47. I would have no problems with you as a neighbor...

in fact, you would fit right in with most of my neighbors.

[iverglas]

50. since you ask

Would you want me for your neighbor? Mine do. But they all think like me. And we never fear a home invader where I live.

Nope. Wouldn't want you anywhere within the same city limits. Or the same borders, for that matter. Actually, on the same planet.

None of my neighbours have anything remotely like. I'm quite sure than none of my neighbours has anything equipped with so much as a trigger. And none of us fears home invaders, either.

[tburnsten]

51. Any of them do arts and crafts?

No glue guns?

[jmg257]

30. Part of the problem is that the newer AWB bills expanded the definition

to be much more restrictive. HR 1022 would have banned semi-autos with a detachable a magazine AND 1 feature - like a pistol grip (ALL ARs and most other modern design semis), M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, Thompsons, "semiautomatic rifles or shotguns originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm" (M1A, M1S90s, and a shitload more of standard guns), etc. etc.

This recent AWB attempt had 66 sponsors. The one after had 4 repub sponsors. And I WOULD FROTHINGLY OPPOSE ANY SUCH BAN WITH EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING!" Because it is just even more bullshit. They 1st focused on stupid shit like bayonet lugs, threaded barrels and flash suppressors in combination - declaring such features to be "the choice of criminals" (BS!), and how "no one who hunts needs such features" (BS! - as if all gun owners hunt). BTW, we weren't laughing then, or now. Because now they want to expand a ban to control any semi with a pistol grip, and add in historic WW2 & Vietnam era rifles, and still leave enough interpretation to ban just about anything else some anti-gun AG would like to. That is ALL bullshit, and CERTAINLY infringes on the 2nd amendment.

So that is why most bans are opposed, because 1)they won't accomplish their "declared" intent to any sigificance, 2)lawful owners are the ones who will have to give up favorite & common rifles & shotguns despite the fact we are not criminals, and 3)because we know what happens next.

[jeepnstein]

31. Simple...

If Congress were to enact legislation banning the use of maybe 500 words would it be OK? There are plenty of other words that one could use instead. Maybe banning those words would help prevent violence, or improve the way someone feels about themselves. Maybe some people find those words morally repugnant.

Would you be on board for tossing our First Amendment to the side for the sake of someone else's happiness? After all, you'd be just giving up a teensy bit of your rights. As long as they're words you don't like to use what difference would it make?

I'm not in a mood for compromising on any of my Constitutional Rights. We've been through a long tunnel under the Bush Administration where they trampled rights with impunity and I for one didn't care one bit for where it was leading. This Country has problems, too much freedom isn't one of them.

[iverglas]

42. so where'd all this come from?

Maybe banning those words would help prevent violence, or improve the way someone feels about themselves. Maybe some people find those words morally repugnant.

Your noodle, as far as I can tell.

You are the one asserting the analogy and then listing what you apparently wish to establish as points on which the two situations are similar. Hm.

Can you identify someone who has called for an assault weapons ban because it makes him/her, or someone else, feel better about him/herself?

Can you identifiy someone who has called for an assault weapons ban because s/he finds the weapons in question morally repugnant?

Please feel free to do so. Unless and until, we'll just ignore this bit of weirdness, 'k?


Would you be on board for tossing our First Amendment to the side for the sake of someone else's happiness?

Hmm. Is "happiness" defined as "increased likelihood that s/he will be able to continue breathing and not lose blood, that his/her neighbourhood will be safer and less plagued by gang/drug dealing activities, and the police charged with enforcing the laws and thus making those things more likely will be less likely to be outgunned by criminals"? In the assault weapons ban context, anyhow?

So what's the point of similarity, in that case, with banning words? There may well be one; you just need to establish it.

And of course if that isn't an approximation of the definition of happiness you had in your noodle when you wrote that, you need to identify someone who calls for an assault weapons ban because it makes him/her "happy" by some other definition of the word.


Work cut out for you, eh?

Of course, you could always just disown that silly post.

[appal_jack]

33. silly + unconstitutional + ineffective = FAIL

The past AWB which banned cosmetic features was silly and ineffective for sure. It was also unconstitutional due to the fact that the state did not demonstrate any compelling reason why it needed to ban such features on commonly used firearms.

Current proposals for even more 'effective' (read: restrictive) AWB's are even less Constitutional. The basic fact of the matter is that the 2nd Amendment protects citizens' possession of small arms suitable for militia use. Given the ample documentation of this fact, appropriate further debates regarding Second Amendment rights might include citizens' possession of ordnance (grenades, etc.) and full-auto weapons. But getting such items legalized is not my pet issue: I am mostly comfortable with the laws regulating semi-automatic rifles (and full-auto, and ordnance) as they now stand. I just don't want to see any further unnecessary restrictions.

The new AWB proposals are stealth efforts to ban all semi-automatic weapons. They are bad (and fundamentally unAmerican) ideas.

-app

[X_Digger]

35. The problem with it is this..

Not only do these kinds of laws not work (easily circumvented, limited reduction in an already low crime situation) but they set a precedent for bans. Enough of these do-nothing laws, and more folks will not blink when one with teeth actually comes along.

It becomes a combination of the boy who cried wolf plus how to boil a frog. The folks who realize that this particular one actually has teeth will have been shouting for so long that nobody listens to them. At the same time, other folks will yawn at 'another ban' not realizing this one is real.

[SteveM]

17. Someone brings up guns and you bring up your penis:

Remember what Freud said: he who first smelt it dealt it.

[azul]

3. Declare open season on grannies and geeks.

Oh yea, somebody's already declared war, and just about anything's fair game worldwide.

ASSault with intent weapons, ban bloodthirsty idiocy in the human race into oblivion?

Bang, bang, shoot, shoot!

[tburnsten]

20. What does this post mean?

Is this a caricature of shooting enthusiasts?

[Free Man]

5. It would be interesting to see what would happen

If people just didn't give up the stuff you banned.

[spin]

9. Could be more than interesting, could be bloody...

welcome to DU.

[Trajan]

12. Only in the Gungeon ....

Does the barrel stroking end long enough to spew some lame analogy .....

Now .... back to your barrels, gents ....

[benEzra]

13. Ever notice that the people who equate guns with sexuality....

are exclusively those who loathe guns?

[Statistical]

14. “A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” Sigmund Freud (n/t)

[spin]

15. The penis size arguement is not only used for guns but also for Hummer owners...

For example this post from Mac Forums:

Something I've always wondered....

Exactly HOW small does your penis need to be to make you drive a Hummer?

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=114721

Or this picture from Five Bucks to Friday



http://www.fivebuckstofriday.com/archive/archive091504.html

Or this article from Bigfib.com

Penis Size Not A Factor In Recent Hummer Purchase
By Lee Camp

ORLANDO – William Sears, a dentist in Orlando, FL, purchased a brand new Hummer 2 Tuesday, and penis size had nothing to do with it. Friends and family verify that Sears bought the Hummer because he owns ten acres of rough, wooded land outside Orlando and wanted the mammoth vehicle in order to drive around on it.

This is the first known U.S. purchase of a Hummer that did not have anything to do with the miniature size of the owner's penis.
In surveys taken by both Hummer and Motor Trend Magazine, "tiny penis" was the number one reason given for buying the ridiculously inefficient house-sized truck. The number two reason was "misshapen penis" and the number three reason was "inability to use penis
properly." Of the few women who bought a Hummer, all stated that they wanted it due to penis envy.

When asked about being the first non-penis-related purchaser of the Hummer, Sears said, "Yeah, I felt a little funny about buying it, and I'm starting to regret it. Fellow Hummer drivers often honk and wave as they pass me on the road as if to say, 'I have a miniscule member too!' And I try to yell back, 'My penis is moderately sized!' but I
think they rarely hear me. I'm contemplating a bumper sticker that reads, 'My package is not below-average,' but those stickers are surprisingly hard to find."
http://www.bigfib.com/issue47/world5-en.html

[Scout]

16. yeah, like the US Marines....

"This is my rifle, this is my gun...."

[SteveM]

18. Yep. And they scramble like a kid discovered at the bathroom keyhold (nt)

[Trajan]

22. Gun loathing is penis envy ?

I dont loathe guns : I despise the fact that such dangerous hardware is available for nitwits of every possible state of neuroses to use against their fellow human beings .... at will ...

Let face it: The sexual associations that gun owners may posses with their weapons may be submerged and unavailable to their own conscience mind .... They need to be reminded of the phallic references from time to time ...

Dont tell me there is no sexual component to gun love ... I have seen it in those I know long before I arrived here ....

[spin]

24. So suddenly millions of American men developed an obsession with penis size...

and immediately ran out to purchase firearms, or many women suddenly developed penis envy.

According to FBI statistics, there were 12.7 million background checks on prospective gun buyers last year, compared with 11.2 million the year before. While checks typically increase toward the end of the year, they spiked sharply at the end of 2008. The figures show a 27 percent increase in the last three months of 2008 over 2007.

"We always anticipate a spike .... This year compared to previous years, the last two months there was a significant increase," said FBI spokesman Paul Bresson.

********snip********

But the ATF posted a notice recently saying it was running low on the self-disclosure forms needed when firearms purchases are made, "as a result of an unprecedented increase in demand" for the forms.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/16/firearms-associations-claim-obama-drove-surge-gun-sales/

A few firearm owners may have psychological problems because of a concern about penis size or suffer from penis envy.

According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, there were about 215 million privately owned guns in 1999. The NRA estimates that half of all American households (total US population is 294 million) have at least one gun owner.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_gun_owners_are_there_in_the_US

If you are correct that's a hell of a bunch of people suffering from concern about penis size or penis envy. Must be the biggest mental problem Americans suffer from!

You state:
I dont loathe guns : I despise the fact that such dangerous hardware is available for nitwits of every possible state of neuroses to use against their fellow human beings .... at will ...

That's a fair argument. Maybe we could improve our laws to eliminate true "nitwits" from legally obtaining firearms and increase the punishment for criminals who illegally carry or use firearms.

[Abq_Sarah]

26. You see what you want to see

And this is just a convenient way for you to demonize and marginalize people who aren't cowering and whimpering at the sight of a firearm.

[iverglas]

44. now, what's the word for this?

Could it be ... irony?

Hubris, perhaps.

[jmg257]

28. Hmmm...Guns and Ammo, or Playboy - sorry, but I have to go with Playboy every time.

Let's face it - the only "sexual component to gun love" is the one you have developed in your over-active skewed/perverted imagination.

Now why YOU would associate the "guns you despise" with phallic symbols should come under some serious scrutiny - sounds like a sign of some deep-down penis-phobia, a dissatisfaction with male genitalia (yours or someone close to you, perhaps?), bad childhood memories, etc. Sounds like you need to be 'redirecting your unconscious mind'...This may help, it sounds very appropriate in your case:

"Fear Of Penis?
Feelings of dread? Overwhelming thoughts? Rapid heartbeat? Tunnel vision? Worse?
...
How it Works: Getting Over Fear Of Penis
It comes down to redirecting your unconscious mind. On the surface, you know your fear of penis is illogical. But it has persisted because your subconscious has attached the idea of an erect penis to all those negative emotions.

Until now, you haven’t had a methodology for reprogramming those connections. We’re here to give you that methodology. Are you ready to put it to use?

Fear Of Penis is usually caused by an intense negative experience from your past. But your mind can also create that fear seemingly without basis. The key is digging down to the source and replacing negative associations with positive ones."

They promise "Diminished Fear and Anxiety in a Day", so Good luck!

Anyway - your issues sound disturbing - glad you don't like guns, some people just shouldn't have them.

[spin]

41. Perhaps you have explained why the anti-gun people always talk about penis size.

They do indeed need to replace negative associations with positive ones.

Then we can have a far more rational discussion on this board about gun control.

[tburnsten]

53. My penis is a positive association

At least that's what I keep hearing

[benEzra]

32. No; equating guns with phalluses is just wierd.

Roughly a third of U.S. gun owners are women, BTW...and my own handgun is a Smith & Wesson 3913 Ladysmith...



I suppose that makes me transsexual.

No, gun ownership is not sexual, though gun hatred by those who view guns as sexual power objects may be.

[spin]

36. The barrel length on the 3913 ladysmith is only 3.5 inches...

If you were really insecure about your penis size, it would seem that you would choose a weapon with a longer barrel.

like for example:

[tburnsten]

38. Do you like sports?

[benEzra]

39. I hate football and NASCAR. Basketball is OK. I enjoy playing soccer, but not watching it.

I enjoy cycling, running, sailing, and kayaking, and would really enjoy parkour, but there are unfortunately no trainers where I live.

[tburnsten]

40. Check this out...

"Let face it: The sexual associations that gun owners may posses with their weapons may be submerged and unavailable to their own conscience mind .... They need to be reminded of the phallic references from time to time ...

Dont tell me there is no sexual component to gun love ... I have seen it in those I know long before I arrived here ...."


How do you think sports fans look?

[jody]

34. The hornless beetle brigade must be proud of your ball rolling skills.

[spin]

37. If gun owners have penis size problems, what about fishermen?

Or an ancient warriors?



Or rock stars such as Prince?

[iverglas]

43. sure: yes, yes and yes

The ancient warrior would appear to be the only problematic one from a public policy pov though.

Y'all feel free to stuff socks down yr pants anytime you want. It's when you stuff pistols down 'em that you become problematic.

Meanwhile ... my ISP fried my modem on Tuesday and won't have me a new one until about next Tuesday, so I'm working on low-speed here. So just hold off on these murals for a few days, eh?

[spin]

45. Sorry to hear about your modem...

I remember how slow dial up internet was when I had it. It required a LOT of patience.

[Retired AF Dem]

48. Y'all feel free to stuff socks down yr pants anytime you want

Whats up with the women that stuff their bras with tissue paper? Such a waste since I'm a firm believer of "More than a mouthful is a waste" kind of guy.

[spin]

49. Stuffing bras with toilet tissue is high school tech...

Currently surgical enhancement is the rage for women.

In the sixties when I was in high school, I wondered why a rather pretty girl was called "Socks", by other girls when she wasn't around. One of my girlfriends explained to me that one time in gym class, a sock fell out of her bra. I always felt sorry for the girl and the razzing she received. She did have a rep as an attention seeker, in fact, some politically incorrect people I knew call her a "slut". (There was no such thing as political correctness in those days.)

I agree with you that "More than a mouthful is a waste".

[Scout]

52. can't find a woman with decent, real breasts, eh? n/t