LAPD Screws Over NRA

[BallaFaseke]

California - LAPD Blocks NRA From Using Department Guns To Solicit
The Los Angeles Police Department announced it would remove NRA solicitations from firearms being issued to LAPD Police Officers. Beretta Firearms had been inserting an NRA solicitation into firearms sold to the LAPD, making it appear that the NRA was approved by LAPD. Glock also inserts NRA solicitations into firearms intended for police. Brady Campaign staff brought this to the attention of the Los Angeles City Council, which prompted the LAPD to take action. Other police departments and city officials are being alerted. For more information on California visit: http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state


SOURCE: Brady Campaign

NOTE: Beretta USA was inserting the NRA flyers, NOT THE NRA!

[CO Liberal]

1. Screwing Couldn't Happen to a More Deserving Organization

The Nuts Ruining America deserve everything they get.

[demsrule4life]

7. Wayne LA Cops have to buy their own guns

though at a preatty good discount. If the cops are spending their own money on the guns why shouldn't they get all the same litature in the gun package as everyone else?

[CO Liberal]

50. That's Not What The Article Says, Dems

From the article. Emphasis mine.

The Los Angeles Police Department announced it would remove NRA solicitations from firearms being issued to LAPD Police Officers. Beretta Firearms had been inserting an NRA solicitation into firearms sold to the LAPD, making it appear that the NRA was approved by LAPD.

Sounds to me like it's taxpayer money being spend, not cops' personal cash.

[demsrule4life]

63. Inside the LAPD police academy

there is a gun store run by the police dept. Ask me how I know? :)

[demsrule4life]

65. Read the third paragraph

http://www.ci.la.ca.us/council/cd5/cd5press/cd5cd5press14614922_10282003.pdf

[PROGRESSIVE1]

2. The LAPD does something right for once!

:)

[MrBenchley]

3. Good for the LAPD

The blood of every cop shot is on Wayne LaPierre's hands. Screw him and his inbred band of racists and idiots.

[demsrule4life]

4. How about the hundreds of thousands of cops

that have been trained by NRA approved instructers?

[Lefty48197]

55. Are you talking about real sworn police officers?

Or are you talking about the mentally ill, "pretend cops" who run around in the woods pretending they are members of some sort of law enforcement militia?

[demsrule4life]

64. Real for real police officers

not the ones in your fantasy world.

[juancarlos]

5. How does this sound, Bench?

The blood of every disarmed victim is on the hands of the inbred band of racists and idiots who support gun guntrol.

sounds just about as ludicrous as your statement.

[CO Liberal]

8. We're Not Inbred Racists and Idiots

They tend to follow Wayne LaPierre and Ted Nugent......

:-)

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

20. Gee, dems...

The RKBA crowd is the one peddling the ideas of bigoted idiots....like Ted Nugent.

[juancarlos]

29. Gee, Bench

The guncontrol crowd is the one peddling the ideas of bigoted idiots.... Just as false as your statement.

[CO Liberal]

30. We're Not Peddling Ted Nugent's Ideas

The pro-gunners are.

[Stilgar]

86. It was Ted's idea for the Bill of Rights

Wow I never new Ted came up with the RKBA in the bill of rights. Before he was born... must have a time machine.

[el_gato]

88. more smear by association

I have never such dishonest behaviour since the last time
someone posted something from freeperville

so now if you are a gun owner you have to like ted nugent?
I guess if your a black gun owner you must be a member of the klan as well.

what utter crap

[MrBenchley]

36. It's absolutely true....

"The so-called gun control bill enacted by the government is nothing but anti-self defense laws designed to disarm law abiding citizens. The right to own guns as guaranteed by the 2nd amendment to the United States Constitution must be protected. Gun ownership is NOT a privilege, it’s a CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHT!!! The Texas Knights work to completely restore the right of all law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms."

http://www.texaskkk.com/platform.htm

[Liberal Classic]

40. And you believe them?

You can't be so gullible as to believe the Ku Kluckers want racial minorities to own guns.

[MrBenchley]

45. Gee, I know "gun rights" is racist horseshit

but I'm surprised to see you admit it.

[el_gato]

87. like Malcolm X?

[Lefty48197]

56. What is this Mr. Benchley?

The Texas KKK is advocating the exact same positions as the NRA? I'm shocked. Shocked, I say.

[MrBenchley]

62. Who would have guessed?

Two racist right wing loony groups spouting the same dishonest crap! I tell you, it's a surprise to us all.

[slackmaster]

32. Anyone who makes broad-brush statements about a "crowd"

Or a "bunch" of people sounds like a bigot to me.

[MrBenchley]

38. Anyone who peddles Ted Nugent's fantasies

deserves what he gets.

[slackmaster]

71. Which fantasies would those be, MrBenchley?

And who around here (on DU) is "peddling" them?

[el_gato]

89. benchly is obsessed with ted nugent....very strange indeed

[slackmaster]

90. The only Ted Nugent writings I've read are on an old record album

By the Amboy Dukes:

http://www.classicbands.com/amboy.html

[CO Liberal]

91. Most Genuine Ted Nugent Writings Are in Crayon

Because he can't be trusted with sharp objects.

:-)

[Valarauko]

101. At least

he makes cool songs. :-)

[CO Liberal]

102. That's Your Opinion, And You're Welcome To It

As far as I'm concerned, Ted Nugent is an untalented hack. Most garage bands have better guitar players in them.

[juancarlos]

16. I note from the smiley face.

That you agree that both statements are false on the face. I may disagree with you, but you're pretty darn civil!

[MrBenchley]

11. It sounds like the gun nuts

are as full of shit as ever.

[juancarlos]

14. An attack that is as invalid as one saying...

"It sounds like the gun-control nuts are as full of shit as ever."

[Spoonman]

9. But I thought you disliked racist

now here you are pimping for the LAPD...Rodney King ring a bell.

Oh I'm sure they have cleaned up there act by now.... Wait, wasn't there another video tape of some racist abusive cop not long ago. Hell I must be wrong, If you say they're OK we should all believe it......
Pimp Away!!!

[damnraddem]

6. Good for the LAPD!

That's a statement I didn't think I would ever make.

[BallaFaseke]

10. Gun Maker Screws Over LAPD

....Shortly after the LAPD theatrics at the City Council, LAPD a customer of Barrett Rifles, sent one of their guns in for some work. Here's Ronnie Barrett's courageous reply:......



http://www.armedfemalesofamerica.com/sightingin/print.ronniebarrett.htm

[CarinKaryn]

18. Good for everyone!

The LAPD does not need these military weapons of war anymore than citizens do. Let the LAPD get the guns banned, and let the manufacture refuse to sell or service them.

Its a win-win!

[CarinKaryn]

12. Hooray!

How would all you "liberal" gun lovers feel if the gun companies were putting repugnent "vote shrub" literature in the gun boxes?

Same thing.


*on edit - added the one word I forgot so some of the slower posters could make sense of what I wrote.

[BallaFaseke]

15. What if they put Vote Dean or Vote Clark ?n/t

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CarinKaryn]

21. What a childish reply.

So sad. Yet somehow not unexpected.

[Superfly]

23. No offense intended, just stating the facts.

:evilgrin:

[MrBenchley]

26. What else are you going to get from the RKBA crowd?

[el_gato]

19. When Ashcroft declares martial law and you're sitting in a prison camp

you'll be happy because they won't allow guns in there

[CarinKaryn]

24. But won't the gun lovers raise up arms to protect me?

If not then, when?

[el_gato]

25. you have to protect yourself, don't expect someone else to

[CarinKaryn]

27. Sorry, that's not the way society works.

Taxes are used by the Highway Dept to build roads so I don't have to; by the Dept of Water and Power to build power plants so I don't have to; by the Police Dept to protect citizens so I don't have to.

But the gun lovers favorite fantasy is to use their six guns to shoot down the bank robbers as they flee town on their mustangs - recovering the widow's life savings and being the belles of the ball at the town picnic.

So now you admit - you won't rise up in rebellion when govt goes too far and starts putting everyone in concentration camps. That's just a little Walter Mitty fantasy that makes you feel special each time you strap on your hog irons.

[Wild Bill]

28. The cops are not required to protect you. n/m

[CO Liberal]

31. In My Town....

...it says "To Protect and Serve" on the side of every police car. What part of that is unclear to you?

[Superfly]

33. OK, so you must have a cop for every single citizen

right?

[MrBenchley]

Classic gun nut fantasy

That's why they need an armed compound...everyone is against them, including the cops.

Remember a couple months ago when they were arguing that pistol permits ought to be handed out like candy because civilization might collapse from terrorists at any moment?

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[juancarlos]

47. Classic gun-control nut fantasy

That's why they need them all confiscated...every gun owner is a criminal, including juancarlos.

[MrBenchley]

51. Not holing up in armed compound....what a fantasy

"every gun owner is a criminal"
Gee, who IS that fretting right now on another thread about needing to outgun the cops?

Here's a hint: It isn't the gun control supporters.

[el_gato]

34. naive

the country is going fascist

[demsrule4life]

35. Try to sue them for not protecting you after someone breaks down your

dead bolted door with a sledge hammer and it takes the cops an hour to get there after you dial 911.

[CO Liberal]

39. Being as No One Has Ever Tried In My 50 Years of Life......

....I'll continue living in the real worls, as opposed to your fantasy world where a gun is the only thing that stands between you and certain death.

[el_gato]

43. corrupt governments love unarmed civilians

it's a fact, live with it

[Liberal Classic]

44. CO Liberal I generally respect your opinions, but

Just becaues this sort of thing hasn't happened to you doesn't mean this sort of thing doesn't happen at all.

[CO Liberal]

48. But It's Still No Reason......

...for me to go out and buy a gun and clench it in my hands while I cower behind my locked door in fear.

To me, that's not living.

[Liberal Classic]

49. If you lived in some of the dives I have

You might feel a bit differently.

[RoeBear]

66. And that is what you imagine gun owners doing?

Sad.

[CO Liberal]

67. That's The Impression I Get Sometimes

That some gun owners picture themselves as Davy Crockett and their homes as the Alamo being attacked by Mexican soldiers.

[RoeBear]

70. You do the same thing....

...barking dogs, dead bolted doors, burglar alarms, cell phone by the bed. What's the difference. Gun owners do the same thing with the added benefit of being prepared if a determined criminal gets in anyways.

[CO Liberal]

96. My Dogs, Deadbolts, and Cell Phone Will Never Kill Anyone

(I don't have an alarm system, so I left that out.)

Can you pro-gunners make the same claim about your guns??

[demsrule4life]

97. Cell phones kill people in indirect ways

like making drivers stupid while trying to use them and drive at the same time. I don't know what type of dogs you have but plenty of people have been killed by dogs.

[CO Liberal]

98. My Cell Phone Is Perfectly Safe While Used in My House

My dogs are both pound puppies - a hound-shepherd mix and a chow-husky mix. They make noise, but they've never even nipped at anyone.

My statement still stands.

[demsrule4life]

99. Then it is just a stupid comparison

Guns are weapons, sometimes needed to kill, if they did'nt they would be worthless.
Cell phones, dogs that wont nip and deadbolts are not weapons.
As you are so fond in saying apples vs oranges.

[Wild Bill]

46. I bet...

I bet they got that on the police cars in LA too. Now where was the LAPD back in 92 when those 56 people killed in the Rodney King riots? Why couldn't they protect businesses from being looted and burned to the ground?

Cops protect and serve but you can't expect them to cover your ass 100% of the time. The individual is the one most person responsable for ones own safety.

Your the one responsable for covering your ass 100% of the time.

[CarinKaryn]

52. That's a sad, sick point of view.

Your the one responsable for covering your ass 100% of the time.

I bet you would have been very happy living in some frontier town, no law except the rule of force. The strongest always win.

I'm quite happy paying my taxes and expecting that the government will provide the essential services that I have contracted them for.

Events like riots and earthquakes are NOT the normal situation. They are, by definition, diasters.

[Romulus]

53. knock yourself out

I'm quite happy paying my taxes and expecting that the government will provide the essential services that I have contracted them for.

That's your right to choose to be dependent. No one's stopping you.

[CarinKaryn]

57. Dependent? Try civilized.

I'm sure you built your house from wood you chopped on your frontier farm. Grow your own food? Build your own windmill to generate your own electricity? Possess your own bazooka to fight off the natives? -- oh wait, you do have a bazooka to fight off the ...

[Lefty48197]

59. Sure Romulus

but you and your National Republican Association comrades will continue to ask your inane question, "Who's gonna protect your commie gun-less Democrats when an evil murderer breaks into your home to rape and kill you?".

[Romulus]

83. eh?

but you and your National Republican Association comrades will continue to ask your inane question: "Who's gonna protect your commie gun-less Democrats when an evil murderer breaks into your home to rape and kill you?".


I'm sure there was some sort of point here, but I'm not sure what it was.

Sincerely,

non-Commie, gun-owning Democrat.

[juancarlos]

93. Carin

Are you saying that you expect the government to take care of you?

[CarinKaryn]

103. Interesting how you take the Repugnent POV

less govt and all.

Welcome to DU. :hi:
Been lurking here long?

[BullDozer]

95. Contracted for? too funny!

I'm quite happy paying my taxes and expecting that the government will provide the essential services that I have contracted them for.

And what happens when 911 doesn't show up soon enough to protect you from a criminal or a house fire?

[BullDozer]

100. What happens when 911 isn't timely?

http://www.heraldnet.com/Stories/03/11/7/17721738.cfm


"A lawsuit brought against Snohomish County by a family terrorized in 1999 when a deranged man broke into their home was tossed out of court Thursday."


"The man was screaming that he was there to serve God, and he spent the next 15 minutes battering his way into the home. The intruder survived six gunshot wounds and was sent to prison for burglary.

The county argued that it was not at fault.

"There is nothing the county could have done any differently to prevent this shooting from happening, absent of putting a police officer outside of every residence for the possibility that criminal activity might occur," Dearie said."

What do you do when the government fails to provide the essential services, either totally or in a timely manner, that you claim to have contracted them for and seem to depend on for your safety?

[MrBenchley]

37. The NRA will be cheering all the way

[Wild Bill]

22. I see this costing LAPD more money per gun

its just one more step in the manafucturing process. Before the Glocks go out the door to LAPD they will have to take the advertising out of the box. The Glocks will become special order instead off the shelf. It should not cost much 2-3 dollars a Glock.

[Withergyld]

42. The manufacturers could adopt the position that Barrett Firearms has taken

I response to the .50 cal ban in LA the following letter was sent to the LAPD:
http://www.barrettrifles.com/ltr_bratton.htm
At that council meeting, I was very surprised to see an LAPD officer seated front and center with a Barrett 82A1 .50 cal. Rifle. It was the centerpiece of the discussion. As you know, there have been no crimes committed with these rifles, and most importantly, current California law does not allow the sale of the M82A1 in the state because of its detachable magazine and features that make it an “assault weapon.” This rifle was being deceptively used by your department. The officer portrayed it as a sample of a currently available .50 cal rifle, available for sale to the civilians of Los Angeles. One councilman even questioned how this rifle was available under current laws, but as I stated, facts were ineffective that day.

Your officer, speaking for the LAPD, endorsed the banning of this rifle and its ammunition. Then he used the rifle for photo ops with the Councilmen, each of whom, in handling the firearm, may have been committing a felony. I was amazed.

<snip>

When I returned to my office from Los Angeles, I found an example of our need for mutual cooperation. Your department had sent one of your 82A1 rifles in to us for service. All of my knowledge in the use of my rifle in the field of law enforcement had been turned upside down by witnessing how your department used yours. Not to protect and serve, but for deception, photo opportunities, and to further an ill-conceived effort that may result in the use of LA taxpayer monies to wage losing political battles in Washington against civil liberties regarding gun ownership.

Please excuse my slow response on the repair service of the rifle. I am battling to what service I am repairing the rifle for. I will not sell, nor service, my rifles to those seeking to infringe upon the Constitution and the crystal clear rights it affords individual to own firearms.

emphasis mine

Another letter to the California Public Safety Committee
http://www.barrettrifles.com/ltr_0703.htm

United States defense contractors such as Barrett Firearms Manufacturing, Inc., Murfreesboro, TN USA rely on orders from the US Military as a primary source of income but this government income for most contractors is only part of the necessary income for long term survival. Commercial or civilian product sales are also a main source of income that makes payroll and for good working conditions for their employees. We must support these defense contractors in both peace and war and allow them to operate, market and sell their products under the rules, regulations and law of the Federal Government. There is a balance of customers among defense contractors that is necessary for sound, long term business and by eliminating commercial sales in California this balance is disrupted. To vote against .50 cal rifles puts jobs of your constituents as risk, the lives of your police at risk, and in the end the safety of the State of California at risk. Are you willing to jeopardize this?

The defense industrial base in America is at risk of being unable to fully support our country in time of need without adequate opportunity for commercial sales of various products. In the Barrett Firearms Manufacturing, Inc situation the civilian legal Barrett .50 cal rifle is at risk in the state of California. The attempt to ban a legal firearm not only violates the basic principals of the US Constitution but sets a precedence that endangers many vital defense contractors. In the Barrett case it also endangers California law enforcement agencies from having a proven and important tool in the fight against terrorism.

* H. Hayes Parks, Special Assistant to the Judge Advocate of the US Army wrote:
“The M82A1 Barrett… are manifestations of the important historic cooperation played by private citizens and small business in the United States in the development of weapons and munitions necessary for the US Armed Forces to perform their mission to protect the national security interests of the United States by fighting and winning, with as few friendly casualties as possible.” This statement sums up the vital role both government and commercial business play in the sound business practices of various defense contractors of which Barrett is one

<snip>

It is the Barrett position that we choose not to support in anyway state or local governments who are against the US Constitution and the safety and security of this nation. If California were to ban the sale of the Barrett .50 cal rifle we will stop the sale and service of all Barrett products to all State Law Enforcement agencies of the state of California immediately and ask all small arms manufactures to consider similar action. Re-classify the .50 cal rifle and you align yourself and the State of California as being part of the very terrorists who are attempting to destroy this great nation of ours.

emphasis mine

Since California has recently passed legislation claimed to provide safety by requiring magazine disconnects and loaded chanmber indicators, what would happen if manufacturers adopted a similar stance to Barrett and no longer sold to or serviced products for California Law Enforcement???

[LibLabUK]

68. Barrett rifle sales.

Touching sentiments from Barrett, how refreshing it is for an arms company to be thinking of the rights of citizens.

"Barrett, the people's arms company"

According to its website, Barrett sells its rifles to the militaries of 50 countries.

Does it use the same criteria of rights protection when it's selling to Indonesia, Saudi Arabia or one of the other dictatorships it does business with?

What about the police agencies round the world that it sells to, does it vet those for their policies and actions on human rights?

[MrBenchley]

69. Good questions

In fact, Barrett was happy to put their .50 caliber howitzers into the hands of Osama Bin Laden and Al Quaeda.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/roofcont.htm

Once again, just the sort of folks Democrats should be pandering to...in a pig's eye.

[Withergyld]

72. This is how they got 'em

http://www.barrettrifles.com/ltr_laden.htm
"Mr. Tom Diaz of the Violence Policy Center (VPC) has obtained information from the recent trial of a suspected terrorist and has taken several facts out of context to suit his anti-gun agenda. Mr. Diaz would have you believe that the U.S. gun industry is so greedy, evil and un-American that it can and would sell guns to terrorists. Based on Mr. Diaz’ misleading information, news articles are appearing stating that Barrett Firearms Manufacturing Inc. sold guns to Bin Laden and that now our troops will face these weapons.

What is the truth? Well, during the 1980’s it must be remembered that the U.S. was supporting the Afghanistan “freedom fighters” or Mujahedeen in their fight against the Russian invaders. As part of the U.S. initiative, various types of small arms, ammunition and even anti-aircraft Stinger missiles were given to these “freedom fighters” in support of their cause. In retrospect we can say that we learned too late that our former friends would become our enemies, and yes, our troops now face the very weapons our government supplied the opposition.

So how did the Mujahedeen buy this equipment from U.S. companies? Did they walk up to the manufacturer of the Stinger missile, say they were from Afghanistan, hated Russians, and needed a few Stinger missiles to knock some of their planes out of the sky? Certainly not. Officials of the US government either sent them missiles from their own stock or arranged the sale through the current manufacturer. The latter was the case for the Barrett rifles, but Mr Diaz omitted these facts. If cognizant U.S. Government officials request the support of an arms manufacturer in such cases, should we to dispute their judgment?
<snip>
Barrett Firearms Manufacturing Inc., like other gun manufacturers in the U.S., has been a law-abiding supplier of firearms to the U.S. government and other friendly governments approved by the U.S. State Department. The agency that regulates us, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, was sent to visit our factory after Mr. Diaz’ accusations and concluded that Barrett is now and has been in full compliance with the law. "

Emphasis added

Pimp your anti-gun hooey elsewhere!

[MrBenchley]

74. So Barrett sold them to Osama

When brain-dead Reagan was doing his sleazy secret arms deal....

In other words, Diaz and VPCC was 100% correct. Now go moan about it to someone else..

"Mr. Diaz would have you believe that the U.S. gun industry is so greedy, evil and un-American that it can and would sell guns to terrorists. "
And he's absolutely right. The gun rights crowd is the scum of the earth.

"For more than a week Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida fighters held on desperately to their final stronghold, hiding in caves as B-52s and jet fighters rained down thousands of pounds of America's most destructive weaponry on the mountains of Tora Bora. ... On the floor lay a discarded paper target, printed by America's vociferous gun lobby, the National Rifle Association, replete with bullet holes and names and scores scribbled in Arabic. "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,617396,00.html

"A training camp linked to Islamic militants has been operating in Alabama, and European law enforcement officials believe Muslim extremists were using it to prepare for a holy war.
British authorities also thought that militants from overseas were training in the United States to take advantage of America's gun laws, sources told ABCNEWS. The looming question for law enforcement is whether there is a connection between the camp and the al Qaeda terror network.
An investigation by Britain's Scotland Yard led to the discovery of the camp in Marion, Ala. The facility is called "Ground Zero USA."
Bullet-riddled police cars and a school bus with mannequin targets are scattered around the property. Inside a huge shed is an equally macabre scene — shot-up mannequins, male and female, in domestic settings, some with red, blood-like stains on them.
The most radical and belligerent of London's Islamic clerics, Abu Hamza, told ABCNEWS in a phone call that America's laws make such paramilitary training easy, "like a picnic." "

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/WNT_alabama_camp020725.html

[Withergyld]

76. spin, a personal attack and a bunch of VPC hooey

The Spin
"Mr. Diaz would have you believe that the U.S. gun industry is so greedy, evil and un-American that it can and would sell guns to terrorists. "
And he's absolutely right.
Barrett sold the rifles to the Afgaistan Freedom Fighters at the request of the US Government.

A personal attack:
The gun rights crowd is the scum of the earth.
Since I am advocating the 2nd as an individual right, you are calling me the scum of the earth.

So much for civility and respect.

The rest is HOOEY.

[MrBenchley]

77. So Barrett DID sell them to Osama

and all your spinning won't spin it away.

And what would you call someone who sticks up for weapons sales to terrorists?

[Withergyld]

78. more spin and a straw man

I answered the question in my previous post, go back and read it again.

"And what would you call someone who sticks up for weapons sales to terrorists?"

This question goes right up there with this one:
"Have you stopped beating your wife?"

Let me get the straw out of my mouth.

I am not sticking up for weapon sales to terrorists. I have NEVER advocated this. Quote where I stated that weapons sales to terrorists should be legal.

:think:

[MrBenchley]

79. Barrrett DID sell them to Osama

"I am not sticking up for weapon sales to terrorists."
No, but you are trying and failing to spin away Barrett's sale to Osama.

[Withergyld]

80. really

I already stated that Barrett sold them at the request of the US Government to a then friendly group. At the time Osama was NOT hostile to the U.S.

Equating this to selling arms to Terrorists is spin.

:crazy:

[MrBenchley]

81. Barrett sold them to Osama

Really, they did.

[brimic]

94. "Barrett sold them to Osama"

Not good. I heard these monstrous cannon have shells the size of ketchup bottles and could shoot down comunications sattelites.

[MrBenchley]

75. So Barrett sold them to Osama

When brain-dead Reagan was doing his sleazy secret arms deal....

In other words, Diaz and VPCC was 100% correct. Now go moan about it to someone else..

"Mr. Diaz would have you believe that the U.S. gun industry is so greedy, evil and un-American that it can and would sell guns to terrorists. "
And he's absolutely right. The gun rights crowd is the scum of the earth.

"For more than a week Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida fighters held on desperately to their final stronghold, hiding in caves as B-52s and jet fighters rained down thousands of pounds of America's most destructive weaponry on the mountains of Tora Bora. ... On the floor lay a discarded paper target, printed by America's vociferous gun lobby, the National Rifle Association, replete with bullet holes and names and scores scribbled in Arabic. "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,617396,00.html

"A training camp linked to Islamic militants has been operating in Alabama, and European law enforcement officials believe Muslim extremists were using it to prepare for a holy war.
British authorities also thought that militants from overseas were training in the United States to take advantage of America's gun laws, sources told ABCNEWS. The looming question for law enforcement is whether there is a connection between the camp and the al Qaeda terror network.
An investigation by Britain's Scotland Yard led to the discovery of the camp in Marion, Ala. The facility is called "Ground Zero USA."
Bullet-riddled police cars and a school bus with mannequin targets are scattered around the property. Inside a huge shed is an equally macabre scene — shot-up mannequins, male and female, in domestic settings, some with red, blood-like stains on them.
The most radical and belligerent of London's Islamic clerics, Abu Hamza, told ABCNEWS in a phone call that America's laws make such paramilitary training easy, "like a picnic." "

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/WNT_alabama_camp020725.html

[Withergyld]

73. Glad you asked

"According to its website, Barrett sells its rifles to the militaries of 50 countries.

Does it use the same criteria of rights protection when it's selling to Indonesia, Saudi Arabia or one of the other dictatorships it does business with?

What about the police agencies round the world that it sells to, does it vet those for their policies and actions on human rights?"

Answer:
http://www.barrettrifles.com/ltr_laden.htm
"Mr. Diaz has painted an inaccurate picture for the American people allowing them to believe that there is a gun free-for-all bazaar going on in the U.S. where there are no restrictions to prevent foreign governments or terrorists from buying guns. Mr. Diaz ignores the fact that many laws are in place to govern every one of these sales, and they are strictly enforced. For the export of munitions, the U.S. State Department conducts a lengthy and thorough review of every case, studying the need for the materiel, verifying the credentials of those signing the import documents, and even examining the human rights record of the receiving country. No gun manufacturer would be foolish enough to risk being closed down for violating these laws."

emphasis mine

Any other questions???

[LibLabUK]

82. Hmm...

"For the export of munitions, the U.S. State Department conducts a lengthy and thorough review of every case, studying the need for the materiel, verifying the credentials of those signing the import documents, and even examining the human rights record of the receiving country."

So, in otherwords, despite blowing hard about caring for human rights... they sell to whoever they want.

If there were any real human rights investigations by the state department, countries like Saudi and Indonesia wouldn't have a single american armament. Ofcourse, we know that those two countries buy vast quantities of American-made arms.

[Withergyld]

84. The State Department approves all exports

"If there were any real human rights investigations by the state department, countries like Saudi and Indonesia wouldn't have a single american armament. Ofcourse, we know that those two countries buy vast quantities of American-made arms."

Take it up with the State Department

[LibLabUK]

85. Well

"Take it up with the State Department"

Nah, I know they're in bed with the devil. Until you guy stop this whole "politician in your pocket" thing you've got going on over there, that's not going to change.

Barrett claims to be interested in human rights, yet it happily sells to dictatorships and torturers. Surely that's a double standard?

OR are you saying that the Saudi and Indonesian governments have good track records for human rights?

[Lefty48197]

54. More gun manufacturer sleaze

If the NRA only represents 5% of gun owners, then why would they assume any gun owner wants to join the NRA?

[Wild Bill]

58. why is it sleezy to advertize?

why is it sleezy to advertize? When I bought a dvd player there was and ad in the box for Netflix. Is it sleezy of the DVD player manufacture to have included this? Not every dvd player owner is going to be intrested in mail order dvd rental. How can anyone get up set over product related advertising is beyond me.

[Lefty48197]

60. Try shooting someone with your DVD player

and see if you don't recognize the difference.

[Wild Bill]

61. again why is it sleezy to do product related advertizing? n/m

[RoeBear]

92. BFD This whole subject is a ...

...BFD. If the LAPD wants to pull NRA phamphlets out of the boxes of guns that they bought for their employees, who cares?