GUNS IN THE NEWS - November 8 - 10, 2003 (Updated Guidelines)

[CO Liberal]

Please try to adhere to the following guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:

1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current for the Monday thread, stories should have been originally posted to the 'Net on Saturday, Sunday, or Monday. (This allows for the fact than many people are off-line over the weekend, allowing the Monday thread to be a weekend summary.) On all other days of the week, stories should have been originally within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board.

2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories are welcome in this thread, as well as gun-related editorials, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to stories or articles from a few years back that support your position.

3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) may be regarded as suspect by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link from a more mainstream source.

4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.

5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.

6 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.

7 - Please direct your comments to the story, rather than attacking the person posting the story or any person responding to the story. In accorance with DU rules, any messages that appear to be personal attacks against another DU-er will be reported to the moderators.

[demsrule4life]

1. Police: Man shoots intruder

COATESVILLE -- Two men armed with guns who burst into a home in the 400 block of Victoria Drive Wednesday and demanded money got a little surprise when one of the people inside the home had better aim, police said.
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10476929&BRD=1671&PAG=461&dept_id=17782&rfi=6

[demsrule4life]

2. Man killed in liquor store robbery

Evansville, IN November 8 -- A Tell City man is dead and a woman is in the hospital after an apparent robbery on Evansville's West Side.

http://www.wtvw.com/Global/story.asp?S=1517164&nav=7CPEJ0MM

[MrBenchley]

3. Man Accused Of Shooting Father (IN)

"A Morgan County man turned himself in to authorities Sunday a few hours after allegedly shooting his father.
Police said the shooting happened around 1 p.m. at a home near Centerton. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031110/lo_wrtv/1869162

[MrBenchley]

4. Man Shot Dead at Party for Slain Friend (PA)

"PITTSBURGH - A 20-year-old man was shot to death while attending a party celebrating the life of a slain friend, police said Sunday.
Marcus Sewell was shot in the head Saturday at a Pittsburgh row house. He later died at Allegheny General Hospital.
Authorities said about 20 people were at the house to honor 19-year-old Ronald Holland, who was shot to death on Sept. 9. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031109/ap_on_re_us/brf_party_shooting_1

[MrBenchley]

5. SF High School Student Shot on Muni Bus Dies

"(KCBS) - A Balboa High School student accidentally shot in the head on the 29 Muni bus Thursday died Saturday, leaving his family searching for answers.

KCBS' Bob Butler reports that 15-year-old DeShawn Dawson was shot during a fight between two students and police say he was not involved.

Dawson was pronounced dead at San Francisco General Hospital on Saturday, according to authorities. "


http://beta.kpix.com/news/local/2003/11/09/SF_High_School_Student_Shot_on_Muni_Bus_Dies.html

[iverglas]

12. forgive me for my cynicism

But this looks to me like one of those "shot by acquaintance" deaths that so often get explained away as "oh, hell, we all know what that means, just another drug dealer saving the taxpayers some money".

The stats, however interpreted, just don't tell the story in a lot of cases. A schoolchild killed while sitting on a bus.

And all because ... well, I'm sure there were just a whole lot of "causes", but I'm also very sure that if nothing had been any different except for the presence of a firearm being the absence of a firearm instead, the kid wouldn't be dead.

.

[MrBenchley]

6. Pipe Bombs Found in California Mailboxes

Remember, after McVeigh’s terrorism, the National Rifle Association had its GOP puppets block the insertion of taggants in explosives to help nutcases like this elude law enforcement.

"SUISUN CITY, Calif. - At least eight pipe bombs have been found this month in mailboxes and near homes in this rural community about 30 miles northeast of San Francisco. Five of the homemade devices exploded.
While no one was injured and the bombs did not appear to be rigged to go off when a mailbox was opened, Solano County Sheriff Gary Stanton described the incidents as "domestic terrorism."
The incidents began the first weekend of November when pipe bombs destroyed five mailboxes in Suisun City, a town of about 26,000."

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/breaking_news/7226942.htm

[RoeBear]

13. Was there a plan to put...

...taggants in fertilizer? It's funny when- if problem 'A' happens some people will come up with a law to solve problem 'B'. And many times, it seems that new law is offered up the next day in the media.

[MrBenchley]

14. Are you trying to kid somebody?

"President Bill Clinton first proposed the use of taggants in 1996, in reaction to the April 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City that killed 168 people and injured hundreds more.
But the National Rifle Association opposes the use of taggants in gunpowder, contending they make the gunpowder unstable.
The interim study, prepared by the Treasury Department's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, examined the use of taggants in Switzerland for the past 17 years and "found no safety concerns at all," Kelly said."

http://www.cnn.com/US/9803/04/tagging.explosives/

[RoeBear]

20. I'm trying to ask a question.

Was there a plan to put taggants in fertilizer?

[MrBenchley]

25. Yes, there was

but the GOP killed it at the direction of the NRA.

[RoeBear]

34. Are you in favor of taggants?

If so why?

[MrBenchley]

35. Well, yes, I am

for reasons this story makes obvious.

[RoeBear]

38. Maybe I'll be in favor too...

...but I need more info.

Let's drop the fertilizer part of the question. I don't know if it's possible to tag fertilizer and I don't really care.

So let's discuss gunpowder.

What is the added cost and what is the added benefit?

An example: Winchester whips up a batch of powder for reloaders. I have no idea how large a batch of gunpowder is but let's say it's a ton. Now they package it up in 1# cans and ship it to a regional Walmart warehouse in the mid-west. That's 2,000 cans of powder all with the same taggant. Joe Schmo lays down $10 bucks and makes a pipe bomb out of it and blows up his ex-wife's car. What does law enforcement do with this info? It would seem the only way that taggants coould help solve crimes is if gun powder sales where registered. And guess what? That boat won't float. And if the Democrats try to float it they'll sink with the idea.

[MrBenchley]

39. Gee, roe, that's great news....

DO let us knnow what you figure out....

Meanwhile, I'll keep pushing for taggants in explosives.

[CO Liberal]

7. Make My Day (Ault, Colorado)

Oh, yeah ... a barking dog is justification for offing your neighbor - NOT!!!! - Wayne

* * * * * * * * * *

Make My Day

AULT - The wife and daughter of a man who was shot and killed Sunday in Ault say they are angry that the state's Make My Day law is being considered as a possible reason to drop charges.

Weld District Attorney Al Dominguez met with the Ault police chief Friday and said he hasn't made a determination if Colorado's Make My Day law will apply in the death.

Last Sunday, a neighbors' dispute about a barking dog erupted into violence in downtown Ault. Eric Griffin, 33, shot and killed Richard L. Hammock, 48, while the Hammock stood on Griffin's front porch.

Hammock went to see Griffin after Griffin allegedly shot Hammock's dog with a pellet gun because the dog was barking too much. Griffin was arrested immediately after the shooting and is in the Weld County Jail for investigation of second-degree murder.

<more>

http://www.greeleytrib.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031108/NEWS/111080028&rs=2

[MrBenchley]

8. Make My Day law

Graphic proof that the puerile fantasies of gun nuts should not be a basis for public policy.

[MrBenchley]

9. Boy, 6, Suspected of Killing Grandfather (MO)

Another family made safer by guns...

"JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. - A 6-year-old boy suspected of shooting his grandfather to death with a .22-caliber rifle has a history of mental illness and attacking family members, authorities said.

James Zbinden, 59, was found dead at his home Friday after his grandson ran into the street and flagged down a neighbor, Cole County Sheriff John Hemeyer said.

The boy, who has not been identified, is being evaluated at a mental-health facility.

"We believe, at this time, that he killed his grandfather intentionally," Hemeyer said. An autopsy Saturday showed Zbinden bled to death from a single gunshot wound near his armpit."

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/breaking_news/7223409.htm

[MrBenchley]

10. Fleeing robber shoots 2 on street (OH)

"BARBERTON - Two people were shot outside a downtown jewelry store early Friday afternoon during an armed robbery attempt by a man with an automatic rifle, police said.

The wounded, Clara Boggs and David Backus, both 23 and of Harding Avenue in Barberton, were taken to Akron General Medical Center for emergency surgery, said Barberton Police Chief Michael C. Kallai. As of Friday night Boggs was in surgical intensive care and Backus was in satisfactory condition.

Barberton police said the gunman, who fled the jewelry store in a gold Pontiac Sunfire parked outside the front door, was caught by officers from the Pennsylvania State Police about 5 p.m. Friday near Somerset, southeast of Pittsburgh."

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/local/7213992.htm

[Superfly]

11. Suggested change to rule #3

"Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) may be regarded as suspect by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link from a more mainstream source."

Change to add "any links from obviously biased sources (VPC, Brady Group, MMM, NRA) will also be seen as suspect...."

[MrBenchley]

15. Gee, fly, what's the name of this place?

The sites are suspect because they're sites meant to provide propaganda to right wing loonies.

[Superfly]

17. Do you ever stop to listen to yourself?

The NRA spews propaganda, so do the left-oriented VPC, et al. Propaganda is propaganda and is designed to elicit a predictable response from the recipient.

That's why ANY propaganda should immediately be suspect.

Just because they're "left" on the political spectrum does not grant them immediate credence.

[MrBenchley]

19. Gee fly...

I'm not the one here bitching because Newsmax and the Washington Times are right wing pieces of shit that nobody in their right mind pays attention to except for laughs.

"the left-oriented VPC"
Again, what's the name of this place?

"Just because they're "left" on the political spectrum does not grant them immediate credence."
But it doesn't make them non-credible, either...which appears to be the sum total of your complaint.

[Superfly]

21. That's true

what makes them non-credible is the fact that they publish pure unadultered propaganda.

"Again, what's the name of this place?"

Why do you keep asking this. It's almost as if you are saying that everything, and i mean everything, left is admitable without question. Talk about being one of the sheeple.

Oh, I was going to ask you, do you respond to me and others with my viewpoint just for the sake of argument no matter what we post?

[MrBenchley]

22. Not even close to true, fly...

"It's almost as if you are saying that everything, and i mean everything, left is admitable without question."
Gee, I don't see any people on the left nearly as scummy as right wingers like Ted Nugent or Larry Pratt. But then I don't find people whose arguments are based on lies and distortion and who cozy up to bigots all that "admitable without question."

[Superfly]

23. Are you saying that I do that?

If so, it's news to me.

Man, I think that most of the hard-corps posters on boths sides of the gun issue (like you, CO, me, Spoonman, etc) are probably pretty moderate when it comes to this issue. The problem is, for all of us, it's an emotional one and our emotions tend to get the better of us and take over our posts, causing the threads to degenerate into flamewars.

[MrBenchley]

26. Fly....

I'm not the one squawking because right wing sources are met with skepticism.

"I think that most of the hard-corps posters on boths sides of the gun issue (like you, CO, me, Spoonman, etc) are probably pretty moderate when it comes to this issue."
I'll let readers judge for themselves.

[Superfly]

27. OK....

Don't you think we'd serve DU and this forum better if we toned down the barbs and inflammatory rhetoric? I'm just trying to reach a common ground with you here so we can discuss the issues instead of going right for the throat.

There have been many times when I don't respond, just because I know what's going to happen if I do. And, I will say that a lot of the atmosphere problems we have down here are due, in part, to my posts. I am making a conscious effort to change that, and I'm inviting you along. Whatcha think?

Brian

[CO Liberal]

24. We Can Judge The Content From Sites Like VPC and NRA

It's the lesser-know wacko sites that need to be avoided, and those who try to disguse themselves as legitimate news sources.

[iverglas]

29. apples and oranges

"Change to add 'any links from obviously biased sources
(VPC, Brady Group, MMM, NRA) will also be seen as suspect....'"

You're seeing the difference between sites that are OBVIOUSLY partisan on an ISSUE and do not claim to be otherwise (those you've listed) and sites that are PURPORTEDLY members of the fourth (or fifth) estate -- the press/media, the things that *report* news, rather than advocating policies. Right?

The objectionable-ness of the latter, CO Liberal's list, has nothing to do with their partisanship, it has to do with their dishonesty in carrying out their PURPORTED mission of REPORTING. I'll bet that CO Liberal would have included Pravda and Izvestia ("there's no truth in the news and no news in the truth") a decade or so ago, if the thought had occurred.

Partisans of either side of the firearms control dispute are welcome to challenge material cited from the sources you list, but in none of those cases is the source itself sufficient to discredit what it reports.

In the case of CO Liberal's list, the source itself prima facie discredits anything it reports, subject to any evidence that might corroborate it, in the eyes of people who characterize themselves as Democrat, or democrat, or progressive, or liberal, or left, by joining DU.

I, for instance, will not automatically regard something cited from some sources on your list as suspect. I can't speak for you, but you also can't speak for me. I should think, however, that CO Liberal could actually be taken as speaking for everyone in saying that "extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times)" not merely "may be regarded as suspect by many DU-ers", but *will* be regarded as suspect by *all* DUers.

.

[MrBenchley]

16. Teen Sniper Suspect Malvo Pleads Innocent

"CHESAPEAKE, Va. - Sniper suspect Lee Boyd Malvo pleaded innocent to murder Monday as his trial opened in the slaying of an FBI analyst shot to death during the three-week sniper spree in the Washington, D.C., area last fall.
The 18-year-old responded, "Not guilty," in a clear voice each time when asked for his plea to two counts of capital murder and to one count of using a firearm in a felony.
Defense lawyers plan to argue that Malvo was so brainwashed by fellow suspect John Allen Muhammad, 42, that he either did not know what he was doing or could not control himself. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031110/ap_on_re_us/sniper_shootings_trial_13

[MrBenchley]

18. Deputies Find 'Potential Witnesses' To Quadruple Homicide (SC)

"Investigators say they have found two people they were seeking as potential witnesses to Thursday's Superbike Motorsports murders.
Friday afternoon, Spartanburg Sheriff Bill Coffey showed sketches of a man and woman who were seen at Superbike Motorsports around the time investigators believe the shootings took place.
Coffey said a witness had seen the man pursuing the woman down Parris Bridge Road, and the woman appeared to be crying. Coffey said the two were considered possible witnesses."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=401&ncid=401&e=4&u=/ibsys/20031110/lo_wyff/1867717

[MrBenchley]

28. Arrest Made In Spartanburg Homicide (SC)

"Officers said they responded to a shots fired call on Evins Street around 7:30. When officers arrived, they found Joshua Antwan Brewton, 17, lying in the street with gunshot wounds. Brewton later died at Spartanburg Regional Medical Center.
A second teen, 15, was taken to SRMC where he was listed in stable condition."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=401&ncid=401&e=2&u=/ibsys/20031110/lo_wyff/1869455

[MrBenchley]

30. One shot in robbery spree that went awry (MO)

"Two men shot a person and assaulted two others during a frantic but fruitless robbery spree Sunday night that touched off at the Blue Ridge Mall, police said.
The young men were at large Sunday night. Police thought one of their victims had life-threatening injuries.
According to investigators, the suspects were part of a party of five young men eating at the mall's Applebee's restaurant around 6 p.m.
The pair got up from dinner, went outside and confronted a couple in the parking lot, demanding the man's car keys.
The victim apparently did not comply fast enough, police said, and one of the robbers shot him before fleeing on foot. The victim was taken to an area hospital."

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/7224173.htm

[iverglas]

31. (Update) Boca del Mar teen was shot in the back by his neighbor

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-cpdrewes02nov02,1,7092065.story

Emergency room reports released by lawyer Robert Montgomery on Saturday show that 16-year-old Mark Drewes was shot in the back.

Drewes was killed by the single shot fired by Jay Levin, 40, a neighbor who told detectives that he shot Drewes in self-defense after the teen knocked on his door after midnight on Oct. 25.

... Levin, who lives down the block from the Drewes family, told detectives that he thought he was being robbed when he opened the door and saw the 6-foot, 2-inch Drewes. Levin also told deputies that he thought he saw something in the teen's hand.

Yeah, that's credible. Kids playing ring-the-doorbell usually stand there and wait for the door to be answered ...


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/search/sfl-pdrewes02nov02,1,5022486.story

Montgomery <victim's family's lawyer> contends that the medical reports he released Saturday prove the teen didn't threaten Levin.

"He wasn't any threat whatsoever to Levin. None. Zero," Montgomery said. "He was running away after ringing the doorbell, as kids do."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/search/sfl-pdrewes07nov07,1,7316256.story

State Attorney Barry Krischer's office had requested that sheriff's detectives expedite the investigation because of community concerns about the case, said Michael Edmondson, Krischer's spokesman. Edmondson acknowledged that such a request "does not happen often."

A decision on whether to charge Levin doesn't necessarily hinge on today's meeting. Speaking in general terms, Edmondson said the Sheriff's Office has the authority to arrest someone at any time if it decides there is probable cause that a crime was committed.

Oh look ... the fact that the man who killed the kid wasn't arrested on the spot really *isn't* proof that no crime was committed ... kinda like I said.

A criminal defense attorney who is not connected with the case, Richard Lubin, said a key piece of the evidence is the angle at which the bullet entered Drewes' body and how close to the victim the gun was when Levin fired. He said the final decision could range from no charges -- because of justifiable self-defense -- to manslaughter or murder.

The teenager was killed by a special frangible .38-caliber bullet that disintegrates upon impact, according to Bob Montgomery, the attorney representing Drewes' parents, Luciana and Gregory Drewes.

"It's just amazing that anyone would go out and shop for that type of ammunition. It tears up the inside of the body," Montgomery said. "My prediction is that charges will be filed and that <Levin> will be tried, found guilty and serve time."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/search/sfl-pdrewes08nov08,1,7775010.story

Michele Housek, who lives across Woodbury Road from Levin, said Friday she couldn't understand why he hasn't been charged.

"The main fact is he shot and killed a 16-year-old in the back. There was no provocation other than <knocking on a door>. It's nothing that would warrant a kid being shot in the back. If he did it, and we know he did, then he needs to be punished for what he did."

Which leaves me not needing to comment.


If it weren't for how this happened in a "perfect neighbourhood" (not my words), this tale would look unfortunately similar to an episode of Homicide that I recall, which was in turn based on a true story, of a homeowner shooting and killing a young person in costume who make the mistake of not knowing that neighbourhood well enough to know he was at the right house number for the party he was going to, but on the wrong street ...

.

[MrBenchley]

32. There was this incident in 1993....

"A man in Louisiana was cleared of wrongdoing in 1993 after he shot a Halloween-costumed Japanese exchange student knocking on his door looking for a party in 1992. He turned himself in after a grand jury had indicted him on charges of manslaughter in the killing of Yoshihiro Hattori of Nagoya, Japan. Hattori's friend testified in the trial that he was carrying a camera when they knocked on Rodney Peairs' door."

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/auto/epaper/editions/sunday/news_f3b984fc234c221d00da.html

http://goldsea.com/Features2/Twodeaths/twodeaths4.html

http://www.filmakers.com/indivs/ShotHeardRoundWorld.htm

http://www.fkassociates.com/guns.html

[iverglas]

33. that's the one

Homicide lifted the story almost holus bolus -- but added (I assume) the factor that the man who did the killing was the cousin of one of the cops, and the cop in question (Bayliss) knew the cousin to be an outrageous racist, and the cousin admitted to not having been in fear for his life. Pretty much as I suspect the real killer would have admitted if he'd been remotely honest.

The film looks interesting. Maybe I'll pester one of my new digital channels to get hold of it.

.

[MrBenchley]

36. Homicide was an excellent series...

...wish someone would pick up the reruns....

[iverglas]

40. poor Benchley

Homicide has been running non-stop on one cable/digital station or another in Canada ever since it was in about its 3rd season on network. It first ran on our Bravo, "TV too good for TV", the popular wisdom about Homicide.

That's how I saw it -- didn't watch it first-run, got the bad flu in Sept. a few years ago and started watching every night at midnight. Missed the first two episodes. Never did know who Edina Watson was til about a year later.

I imagine it's one of those shows, like Law&Order and West Wing, that is/was more popular (i.e. gets larger audience shares) in Canada than in the US. I adored it for its variety of styles -- particularly that one that took place one night in a motel on the outside of town, just like a Tennessee Williams play or some such thing. And the music.

Of course, Homicide followed the rule for successful US teevee shows: a Canadian in one of the leads. Claire in L&O (after whose departure it went downhill), Meldrick in Homicide, Gil Bellows in Ally McBeal, half the cast (the good half) of SNL, Michael J. Fox in Family Ties, etc. etc.

I'd lend you my complete tapes of the series -- but you can buy seasons 1-3, so far, it seems. Did you follow Due South at all? We were never sure whether our neighbours got the jokes. That self-deprecating Cdn humour and all.

.

[MrBenchley]

45. One of my favorites

Was the episode that basically consisted of their videographer's movie...

Incidentally,, I met Jill Hennessey a few years ago...a very nice, intelligent lady.

I did not get into Due South when it was on....but I do listen to the soundtrack album occasionally.

[iverglas]

41. where are all the self-defence fans?

There was some pretty strong opinion expressed when this story was first posted in late October. I suggested that it warranted following, and I've followed it. Haven't had any responses at all to the updates. Surely someone wants to go back on record here? Maybe everybody's just waiting with bated breath for the prosecutor's decision ...

.

[DoNotRefill]

42. sorry...I've had other things on my mind, see my sig line.

eom

[demsrule4life]

43. Congrads

I'am still glad my three are growed up and out of the house. :)

[DoNotRefill]

44. a few points:

"It's just amazing that anyone would go out and shop for that type of ammunition. It tears up the inside of the body," Montgomery said. "My prediction is that charges will be filed and that <Levin> will be tried, found guilty and serve time."

It could be one of two things, either something like a Glaser safety slug or one of the "environmentally friendly" non-lead practice rounds. Actually, the Glaser is considered a safe "self-defense" round, because it doesn't over-penetrate, cutting down on the risk to innocent bystanders. Of course, the down-side of that is that it doesn't penetrate nearly as well as a FMJ round. I'm SURE that Montgomery's statement has NOTHING to do with the fact that he's the attorney for the dead kid's family.

"If it weren't for how this happened in a "perfect neighbourhood" (not my words), this tale would look unfortunately similar to an episode of Homicide that I recall, which was in turn based on a true story, of a homeowner shooting and killing a young person in costume who make the mistake of not knowing that neighbourhood well enough to know he was at the right house number for the party he was going to, but on the wrong street ..."

Ah. The joys of basing perception on a TV show. ;-) What you failed to mention is that in the actual case, there was considerably more going on than "student rings doorbell, man opens door, shoots student." IIRC, the man's wife answered the door, and the kid tried to scare her, in line with some kind of Japanese reality game show (for an inkling of the bizarre things you can see on Japanese TV, check out Most Extreme Elimination Challenge on Spike TV at 9 PM on Thursdays. It's "sadism as fun"...) She pushed him out of the house and screamed to her husband that she was being attacked. He got his gun and went to investigate, found the kid, pointed a gun at him, and ordered him to stay where he was. The kid approached the man, despite being told to stay put at gunpoint, apparently still trying to scare him. The man then shot the kid once the kid got close enough to put him in danger. I MIGHT point out that, unlike the episode of Homicide you referred to, the man was criminally tried by a jury of his peers and found to be not guilty.

[iverglas]

46. actually

The case you describe is the one that was portrayed on teevee, methinks. It doesn't seem to be the one that actually happened, some details of which I read in the links provided by Benchley.

Nonetheless, even if the facts had been as you described, the real fact is that a kid was pointlessly killed. Absent a firearm or other weapon in his hand, he was never "close enough to put <the male homeowner> in danger", simply because there was no danger -- one apparent "aggressor", two adult "defenders", the woman was NOT being attacked, there was NO violence or attempt at violence on the "aggressor's" part, NO reason beyond paranoia/racism to suspect/expect violence.

The presence of the firearm meant that as a result of someone's "mistaken" belief that s/he was in danger, someone else got killed. Had there been no firearm, the victim might have got knocked down. Hell, he might even have punched back. Forgive me (and my law) for regarding even that as better than a dead kid.

"I MIGHT point out that, unlike the episode of Homicide you referred to, the man was criminally tried by a jury of his peers and found to be not guilty."

As was OJ Simpson. Jury decisions, you may know, are really not binding interpretations of the law.

.

[MrBenchley]

37. Two killed in police chase (KS)

"A man and a woman were killed early Sunday in a one-car wreck in Kansas City, Kan., after a shooting incident in Overland Park and a police pursuit.
Overland Park police said bouncers escorted the woman and two men out of the Pub on Santa Fe, 7938 Santa Fe Drive, about midnight Saturday.
All three got into a car with the woman behind the wheel, police said. The man in the front passenger seat then fired several shots into the air from a small-caliber handgun. One of those shots hit a parked vehicle nearby. The three then sped away."

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/7223611.htm