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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 11:22 AM
Original message
The 2000 Democratic Party Platform
Edited on Mon Nov-10-03 11:33 AM by CO Liberal
For those of you who think the Democratic Party is out to take yer guns, here's a link to the party platform from the year 2000:

http://www.democrats.org/about/2000platform.html

I don't envision the 2004 platform being very much changed with regard to guns. And here's what the 2000 platform said about guns; underlining emphasis is mine.

* * * * * * * * * *

Discipline, Character, and Safety. Education is not just about test scores, but about passing on our values to the next generation of American citizens. Our children and teachers deserve schools of safety and classrooms free of fear. We should have a zero-tolerance policy towards guns in schools. Each school should institute strict, firm, and fair discipline policies that are agreed upon on the first day of the school year at a meeting of teachers, parents, and students. We should expand the Family Leave Law to make sure parents can attend these meetings and all parent-teacher conferences without being scared they will lose their jobs.

<snip>

FIGHTING CRIME

Democrats believe government's most basic duty is to establish law, order, and freedom and keep citizens safe from crime. When crime is rampant, families are forced off the streets and behind closed doors. When children are ducking for cover, they have a hard time reaching for their dreams. When people are afraid to walk in their own neighborhood, communities are robbed of the basic sense of decency and togetherness. When an overburdened justice system lets thugs off easy, good parents have a harder time teaching their children right from wrong.

Bill Clinton and Al Gore took office determined to turn the tide in the battle against crime, drugs, and disorder in our communities. They put in place a tougher more comprehensive strategy than anything tried before, a strategy to fight crime on every single front: more police on the streets to thicken the thin blue line between order and disorder, tougher punishments - including the death penalty - for those that dare to terrorize the innocent, and smarter prevention to stop crime before it even starts.

They stood up to the gun lobby, to pass the Brady Bill and ban deadly assault weapons - and stopped nearly half a million felons, fugitives, and stalkers from buying guns. They fought for and won the biggest anti-drug budgets in history, every single year. They funded new prison cells, and expanded the death penalty for cop killers and terrorists.

Here are the results of that strategy: serious crime is down seven years in a row, to its lowest level in a quarter-century. Violent crime is down by 24 percent. The murder rate is down to levels unseen since the mid-1960's. The number of juveniles committing homicides with guns is down by nearly 60 percent.

But we have just begun to fight the forces of lawlessness and violence. We cannot go back to the finger-pointing and failed strategies that led to that steep rise in crime in the Bush-Quayle years. We can't surrender to the right-wing Republicans who threatened funding for new police, who tried to gut crime prevention, and who would invite the NRA into the Oval Office. Nor will we go back to the old approach which was tough on the causes of crime, but not tough enough on crime itself.

With Al Gore as President, America won't go back. We will move forward. We will fight to increase the number of community police on our streets. We will fight to give police the high-tech tools and the training they need to keep our streets safe and our families secure. We will toughen the laws against serious and violent crime to restore the sense of order that says to children as well as to criminals: don't even think about committing a crime here. We will reform a justice system that spills half a million prisoners back onto our streets each year - many of them addicted to drugs, unrehabilitated, and just waiting to commit another crime. We will make schools safe havens for students to learn and teachers to teach. We believe that in death penalty cases, DNA testing should be used in all appropriate circumstances, and defendants should have effective assistance of counsel. In all death row cases, we encourage thorough post-conviction reviews. We will put the rights of victims and families first again. And we will push for more crime prevention, to stop the next generation of crime before it's too late.

<snip>

Strong and Sensible Gun Laws. A shocking level of gun violence on our streets and in our schools has shown America the need to keep guns away from those who shouldn't have them - in ways that respect the rights of hunters, sportsmen, and legitimate gun owners. The Columbine tragedy struck America's heart, but in its wake Republicans have done nothing to keep guns away from those who should not have them.

mocrats believe that we should fight gun crime on all fronts - with stronger laws and stronger enforcement. That's why Democrats fought and passed the Brady Law and the Assault Weapons Ban. We increased federal, state, and local gun crime prosecution by 22 percent since 1992. Now gun crime is down by 35 percent.

Now we must do even more. We need mandatory child safety locks, to protect our children. We should require a photo license I.D., a full background check, and a gun safety test to buy a new handgun in America. We support more federal gun prosecutors, ATF agents and inspectors, and giving states and communities another 10,000 prosecutors to fight gun crime.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. Remember
a member of the RKBA crowd characterized this very sensible position as "anti-gun venom."
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Romulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. thanks CO
For re-posting this.

<gratuitous plug follows>

We should require a photo license I.D., a full background check, and a gun safety test to buy a new handgun in America.

Exactly right on the money. That is definitely a part of my proposal being sent to my reps on firearms safety.
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Man_in_the_Moon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. Why should I have to take a 'safety test'?
or anybody really.

I mean I would not hold people to taking literacy tests to vote.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. It's Like Taking a Road Test to Get a Driver's License
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Man_in_the_Moon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. I can actually understand a test for CCW, but not for purchase
because the same goes for owning a car.

You do not have to take a 'test' or even have a drivers license to own a car.

So your comparison, is as you constantly put it, apples and oranges.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. The Same Old Car Ownership Analogy
You have to prove you can safely handle a car in order to use it on public roads. But the private vs. public analogy doesn't work here - a gun can kill no mater where you are.

Your comparison is more like apples and road apples. And your contribution is the road apples.
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Man_in_the_Moon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. You are the one that brought it up
So maybe if you could keep the argument apples to apples we wouldnt have these assinine asides.

We have been over it too many times, I wonder why you have such a hard time remembering...
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solinvictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Or why not a test to use your 1st Amendment rights?
We should be consistent and call for a return of the poll tax. Further, before anyone is sold a PC, copier, or typewriter, we should perform a background check to make certain that they will not abuse their 1st Amendment rights. Free speech is a danger to society at large. We need a "Book Buy Back" program to target subversive literature, especially getting all those political ideas out of everyones heads. Not to mention "Saturday Night Special" books, those cheap books that serve no good purpose. The encyclopedias, those are "Assault Books" because they contain more core knowledge than a law abiding citizen would need access to. Additionally, the Internet should be programmed to access only select official government sites, CNN, and FOX news.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. **** shaking head in disbelief ***
I just don't know where to begin to respond to that line of crap.
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Man_in_the_Moon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. 'That line of crap'
is more apples to apples, than your statement.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Well, If That's The Case......
....why don't you go to Harlem, picket in favor of restoring the Poll Tax, and see how far you get?

:-)
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Man_in_the_Moon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. I dont believe in a poll tax
Yet many here seem to support the same thing as long as it pertains to the right to arms.

I mean putting a price on one right is the same as putting a price on any right.

If YOU believe that a cost should be involved in owning a gun (such as a license, or extra taxes, or whatever) it is the exact same thing as a poll tax, and it will be used for the exact same purposes.
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
58. Go down south CO lib
Try to sell a gun ban to people in Tennessee, West Virginia or Arkansas.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #58
68. I'd Rather Show The Folks In Tennessee, West Virginia. & Arkansas ....
...how they've been lied to by the NRA and the GOP.
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solinvictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. Ditto
to your suggestion of more laws, regulations, and prohibitions when there are hundreds of local, state, and federal laws existing now. It's foolish to seek MORE legislation when so many laws are extent now.
CO< my essential issue with anti-rights liberals is that the Bill of Rights is expansive to infinity except for their interpretation of individual gun rights. Why is this? If you don't want a gun, don't own one, but leave my individual choices alone.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. As Long As Someone Can Use Their "Individual Choice"......
....to blow me or a loved one away, I will continue to seek reasonable gun control measures.
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Man_in_the_Moon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. What about someone's individual choice to take a drink?
if you really were concerned about your safety you would concentrate on getting rid of alcohol, after all you are more likely to be killed by a drunk than by being 'blown away'. Especially since you are a middle-aged white male. Heck by far the most likely person to 'blow you away' would be yourself.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Prohibition Didn't Work.....Remember?
Please knock it off with all these useless "apples-and-oranges" arguments, and concentrate on the subject at hand.
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Man_in_the_Moon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. You first.
You seem to love the apples to oranges more than anyone else.

And yes, prohitibition didnt work, neither does gun control.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Gun Control CAN Work
If properly enacted in such a way to allow gun access to the good guys while keeping guns away from the bad guys.
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Man_in_the_Moon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. LOL
Sure it can.

Just not by the means supported by the Brady's, or the VPC, or the NRA.

Placing restrictions upon good guys and hoping that the bad guys follow those restrictions is not only stupid, it could almost be said to be criminal. After all if you remove the ability of the good guy to fight the bad guy, havent you 'aided and abetted' the bad guy?
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Not At All
I wish you pro-gunners would stop throwing your hands in the air and saying gun control will never work. If we are to survive as a society, we need to work together to fingure out how to MAKE it work.
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Man_in_the_Moon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. No we dont
We need to work together to find out a way to keep people from feeling desperate enough that they feel that they have to resort to violence in order to survive.

Guns have little to do with it really, but people get blinded by the 'evil gun' and cant see that fixing the REAL cause of the problem is more effective that attempting to fix a symptom of the problem.

In order to fix it, and survive as a society, you have to look at the much larger picture than just the guns. Something that some people have a hard time doing.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. And You Need to Stop Worshipping the Gun
It is NOT the answer to America's problems. It's part of the problem.
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Man_in_the_Moon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I dont worship the gun
I worship freedom.

I have never said that it was the answer to America's problems.

I have never even come close to saying that.

I have always said that gun violence was a symptom of the problem.

I have said that getting rid of the gun from the hand of the 'good guy' will not solve the problem of gun violence.

And it will not, which is something that close-minded people that are afraid of the gun will not admit. That they cannot admit, because if they did then it would ruin their argument to remove the object they fear from their fellow citizen's hands.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. On That Point, We're In Agreement
I have said that getting rid of the gun from the hand of the 'good guy' will not solve the problem of gun violence.

I'm interested in gun control measures that KEEP the guns in the hands of good guys who want them, while keeping them away from bad guys.
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Man_in_the_Moon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. So you support Concealed Weapon Permits?
Or do you still hold that they will simply cause 'blood to flow in the streets'?
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #56
66. I Still Have a Problem With Concealed Weapons
Many of the pro-gunners I hear on talk radio here in Colorado sound like real hotheads, with quick tempers. I'd hate to see what would happen if they all got concealed permits.

Maybe if more pro-gunners were more civil, I wouldn't feel this way, but I do.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. CO, you keep saying that mantra, but you never and I mean never
give an example of a law that will "allow gun access to the good guys while keeping guns away from the bad guys".

I believe it's time for the gun-control group to stop repeating their mantra and tell us how to do the job.

Personally, I don't believe you gun-control guys have a clue how to draft such a law and neither do I.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #52
69. I'm Not a Lawyer, Nor Do I Claim To Be
You're right - I DON'T know how to draft a law. That's why I keep saying that people on both sides of this issue need to work together to draft such a bill.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Would it be inflammatory to note
that it's a member of the RKBA crowd calling for the return on the poll tax?

"Free speech is a danger to society at large."
Especially if people are going to use it to point out that the seccond amendment covers only your right to join the well-regulated state militia, no matter how furiously John AshKKKroft lies in public.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. As Pretzelboy Said During the 2000 Campaign......
"There ought to be limits on freedom."
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Gun nuts are responsible for pResident Turd
The other white meat was keynote speaker at the National Rifle Association’s annual banquet in 2003, where he thanked the assembled wad of racists and loonies: "Were it not for your active involvement, it's safe to say my brother would not be president of the United States," Jebbo said. He got a standing ovation.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. That Alone.....
...should be justification for disbanding the Nuts Ruining America.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Amen to that.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #40
55. I thought you claimed...
..other wise?
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WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot Donating Member (485 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. Prosecutions?
Edited on Mon Nov-10-03 12:06 PM by WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
They stood up to the gun lobby, to pass the Brady Bill and ban deadly assault weapons - and stopped nearly half a million felons, fugitives, and stalkers from buying guns.

How many of these half a million prohibited persons were prosecuted for commiting a felony for trying to purchase a firearm? Note that felons were prohibited from purchasing firearms well before the above laws. The NICS is a good idea, but why aren't there more prosecutions as a result of this?
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. I've read that platform many times. Parts of it are ridiculous such as
"a full background check, and a gun safety test to buy a new handgun in America".

We already require a full background check to buy a "new handgun".

If a new handgun is not "safe", then existing civil law suits would quickly bankrupt a manufacturer. The current bill to prevent frivolous lawsuits against firearm manufacturers would not limit such lawsuits.

The bottom line is many parts of the platform dealing with firearms appear to be written by someone who knew nothing about firearms, crime, or gun laws.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Ah, which Jody is which?
"jody  (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-08-03 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Please provide a link where I criticized the party "platform language as
being anti-RKBA". I have stated that the platform contains statements in other sections that lead people to misunderstand the National Democratic Party's position on RKBA that I quoted above. "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=21126&mesg_id=21254&page=

"jody  (1000+ posts) Mon Sep-08-03
One problem is that the DNC Platform is written with so much anti-RKBA venom"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=7331#8580

And nnow...

"The bottom line is many parts of the platform dealing with firearms appear to be written by someone who knew nothing about firearms, crime, or gun laws."
Actually, it sounds like the platform was written by someone smart enough not to fall for the NRA's lies, distortions and phony sideshows.
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Paladin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Well Done, Benchley
n/t
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Thanks
Keep up the good work yourself.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
53. Paladin, you haven't refuted my statement, such silence admits defeat!
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Paladin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. Gee, Another Cheap Victory Claimed By An RKBA Radical

Imagine my complete and utter lack of surprise.......
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. "We should have a zero-tolerance policy towards guns in schools. "
That's a silly comment.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. But It Needs To Be Said
Because so many pro-gunners have said that "if one teacher had been able to carry a gun, Columbine never would have happened".
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. For that matter
Look at the push by gun loonies to funnel taxpayer money to the NRA to put their idiotic Eddie Eagle nonsense in public schools.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Nutty isn't it?
Stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an adult. What were those loons thinking about?

CO- you don't need to tell me it's proven ineffective, at least they tried to do something constructive.

Benchley- I thought I heard the NRA, or individual NRA members were donating the tapes. Do you have some proof to the contrary?
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Oh, I Get It
Edited on Mon Nov-10-03 04:33 PM by CO Liberal
They can't get they asinine program into the schools through regular channels, so now they're doing an end run.

What part of "no" don't those NRA assholes understand?
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Retarded is not a nice word to use..
... in a grown up conversation. Please apologize.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I Edited It
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Thanks,
now you can hit the alert on me because I can't edit the headline. :+
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. The fowl foul makes kids MORE likely to play with guns
and is thus utterly worthless...but what the hey! It's the NRA we're talking about...not some bunch of racist extremist loonies.....

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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. More likely to play with guns?
Have you ever seen the tape? DO you offer any proof?
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Studies Have Been Conducted
Where they showed kids the Foul Fowl, then exposed them to a gun, and most of the kids picked the gun up. None of them left the area to tell an adult.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. That doesn't prove the point.
They didn't have a set of kids exposed to the guns who didn't see the video first. I'm sure your referring to the 20/20 piece from a few years ago. I was as surprised as the next person as to the results ABC showed. But without a test group it doesn't mean much.
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Man_in_the_Moon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Got a link?
or is this just something you pulled out of a hat?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. In fact...
Every educational expert who's ever looked at the dirty bird has concluded the program is utterly worthless.

Connsider...it puts the onus for safety NOT on the idiot who owns the gun, but on the toddler.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
57. Your plan is like a bird's too...
...like an ostrich sticking it's head in the sand. Let's pretend guns dont' exist. I won't tell junior what to do if he finds a gun I'll just hope for the best.

How's that been working for ya?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Cry me a river, roe....
"I won't tell junior what to do if he finds a gun I'll just hope for the best. "
Gee, I can't imagine what kind of idiot leaves a gun lying around where a kid could find. And yet gun owners do with stunning regularity.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. You're making my point...
...for me, Bench. Thanks!:pals:

You claim stupid gunowners leave their guns lying around carelessly but at the same time don't want to tell kids to "Stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an adult". I don't get it. :shrug:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Koresh help you then, roe....
Edited on Mon Nov-10-03 08:42 PM by MrBenchley
Because there's something that sounds almost demented about the premise that gun owners should not be held in any way responsible for storing their guns safely, but that taxpayer bucks should be wasted so an idiot in a cartoon eagle outfit can inflict a program that doesn't work on schoolchildren.

But if you want to pretend Eddie Eagle is anything but Joe Camel with bullets...do it without me.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. You claim again...
...that Eddie Eagle use tax funds, do you offer any proof?

And once more I will remind you that the 20/20 episode was not a scientific experiment.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Roe, who are you trying to kid?
"In the fall of 1988 the NRA urged adoption of the Eddie Eagle program in Chicago schools after an 11-year-old girl was accidently injured by a revolver her playmates had found in a schoolyard bush. The idea was widely criticized by educators and law enforcement officials. As Chicago Police Department Deputy Superintendent Joseph DiLeonardi told the Chicago Tribune, "We will not sit back and see this garbage given to our children. This will not be tolerated and condoned by the Chicago Police Department....It's sickening to inject this type of garbage into the minds of our youngsters. It's a disgrace."
Nationwide the NRA has lobbied for state resolutions endorsing the program for use in public schools or mandates requiring it. Since 1993 Alaska, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Nevada, Oregon, Texas, Washington, and West Virginia have passed resolutions endorsing use of the Eddie Eagle program in public schools.v All of the measures list the Eddie Eagle program and the National Rifle Association by name.w And in 1995 North Carolina legislators passed a law encouraging the State Board of Education to promote "gun safety education programs," such as Eddie Eagle, in elementary schools in the state.
And just as Marion Hammer attempted to do in 1988 in Florida, the National Rifle Association continues to use Eddie Eagle as a tool in its efforts to derail the passage of child access prevention (CAP) and mandatory trigger lock laws—on both the state and federal levels."

http://www.vpc.org/studies/eddieap1.htm

"A competing education bill (HB791) sponsored by Speaker of the House Casper R. Taylor, Jr., was supported by the NRA, and would have mandated that the Eddie Eagle Program be taught in all schools in Maryland."

http://www.hgabuse.org/ns101_1.html

"Governor Kitzhaber (D), who already vetoed SB 887, which would have required Oregon public schools to adopt the Eddie Eagle children's firearms safety program as part of their curriculum, is expected to veto HB 3049 as well."

http://www.mygunroom.com/politics/faxalert.html

And from the New York NRA chapter's Eddie Eagle Information Page for lunatics:

"SCOPE has just received word that Governor Pataki has vetoed A.2045 / S. 4057, the Eddie Eagle bill. A. 2045 / S. 4057, would have made available to New York's children the award winning Eddie Eagle gun safety program. ..."

http://scopeny.org/eagle.html#Pataki%20Vetoes

"And once more I will remind you that the 20/20 episode was not a scientific experiment."
And once more I will tell you that Eddie Eagle is worthless and dishonest.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. There it was said...
...do you feel better now? :)

Let me say it's a stupid thing to have in a platform.
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solinvictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. And we are FIRMLY against the kicking of puppies..
Give me a break! This is the type of crap that cost them the vote of the rural South and Midwest because of vague registration and qualifying requirements. Hell, why not have mandatory registration for computers, typewriters, and other mediums of communication? Words can be harmful and we don't want any irresponsible use of the 1st Amendment without a background check and a proof of need.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. If You're So Opposed to Our Party Platform.......
...why are you here?
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solinvictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I'm not
I'm opposed to the asinine policy of depriving law abiding individuals of their constitutional freedoms and imposing more laws rather than enforcing existing statutes. Face it: gun control for the national party is a dead issue and if it is resurrected next year, look for another loss.
Again, I stand behind my modest proposal; if you wish to regulate guns to the point of prohibition, then we need to follow with regulatory oversite for the freedom of speech. The freedom of speech is just that; speech. Nude dancing, art, acts of protest, etc. are not subject to the definition and subsequently do not merit the protection of the 1st Amendment.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
62. Lot's of, maybe many, people here...
...have objections with parts of the party platform. That's to be expected.

If you asked me the question I would tell you I'm a Democrat because of their backing of labor unions.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. That's a very good reason and so do I. eom
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