Mexican weapons cache seized...

[jeepnstein]

MEXICO CITY (AP) - A woman was arrested guarding an arsenal that included an anti-aircraft machine gun—the first weapon of its kind seized in Mexico, police said Tuesday.

The arsenal belonged to a group linked to the powerful Beltran Leyva drug cartel, federal police coordinator Gen. Rodolfo Cruz said. It also included ammunition, five rifles, a grenade and part of a grenade launcher.

Mexican drug cartels, battling a fierce crackdown by soldiers and federal police, have increasingly gotten hold of higher-powered weapons, even military-grade arms such as grenades and machine guns. That has left police—particularly state and municipal forces—grossly outgunned, and many officers have quit following attacks.

Cruz said the confiscated .50-caliber, anti-aircraft machine gun can fire 800 rounds per minute and is capable of penetrating armor from more than 5,000 feet (1,500 meters). Police on a routine patrol Monday found the gun fitted atop an SUV at a house in northern Sonora state.

Authorities did not release any other details about the gun, including its make, where it was manufactured, or where it was sold.

The arrested suspect, Anahi Beltran Cabrera, apparently is not related to the Beltran Leyva clan, Cruz said.

The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has traced many guns seized at scenes of drug violence in Mexico to U.S. commercial sources. But determining the source of military-grade weapons such as grenades and fully automatic machine guns is more complicated.

The ATF says the grenades are mostly smuggled in through Central America, and have been traced back to the militaries of many countries, from South Korea to Spain and Israel. Some may be leftovers from the Central American civil wars.

Assailants have fired on government aircraft performing anti-drug missions in Mexico in the past, but apparently never with the caliber of weapon found Monday.

In 2006, a helicopter on a federal drug-eradication mission crashed while trying to escape ground fire, and a second helicopter was damaged by gunfire in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero.

Mexico is upgrading its northern and southern border checkpoints in an effort to detect and seize more guns and other contraband, installing equipment that will weigh and photograph each car and truck coming into the country.

President Barack Obama has promised to do more to stop gun trafficking from the United States to Mexico. He has pledged to dispatch nearly 500 more federal agents to the border, along with X-ray machines and drug-sniffing dogs.

Mexico's drug violence has claimed more than 10,650 lives since President Felipe Calderon launched a military-led offensive against trafficking cartels in December 2006.

In March, the government sent thousands more troops to the northern border to quell escalating violence. The government announced Sunday that drug-related homicides fell 26 percent across the country in the first three months of the year, compared to the same period in 2008.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D97IE0A02&show_article=1



Indeed the "authorities" aren't going to release any details about the machine gun. It sure didn't come from a retail dealer north of the border.

[anonymous171]

1. What? You mean they aren't killing eachother with only civilian weapons?

The MSM lied to me.

[jeepnstein]

3. Here's some more of it...

Check out those uber tactical Fudd rifles. I really like the California legal AR15. I thought they were buying an unlimited supply of top shelf stuff from the States?

They sure had a lot of mags for one pump action AR and thumbhole AK.

[Caliman73]

9. I like the way they have the belts of .50 cal draped over that rifle.

Looks badass, unless you realize that the rifle is a bolt action (you can see the bolt handle on the right side of the weapon to the left of the AR barrel. Maybe the links help them to keep organized? You've got the AR, the AK, what looks like two other bolt action rifles, The other picture was a .30 cal Browning. Where is the .50 cal anti-aircraft gun? Those are an awful lot of AK magazines for that one rifle.

It is good that these drug cartels are being raided and disarmed, but if the media is going to print these stories about these caches of weapons seized, they should at least be honest about what they are getting.

[slackmaster]

11. That is not only a bolt-action, it's a single-shot bolt-action AR-50

Kind of like mine, except not with an uber-cool machine gun tripod mounting system.

http://members.cox.net/slack/images/AR-50_+_slack.jpg

[aikoaiko]

31. Look at you you long haired gun guy.

heh. ;)

[jeepnstein]

45. Interesting setup...

I have visions of groundhogs going skyward.

I've gotta know. What's your personal best with that setup?

[slackmaster]

48. I hit a gong at 700 yards without much trouble

I don't have a group to brag about.

[yay]

23. I like how there arn't any sights on the AR.

And it's not pump action. It's got a "varmint" handguard. Like this one.



Unfortunately I do think that AR did come from the U.S. I've never heard of a military using the AR in that configuration.

EDIT: Not so big picture.

[slackmaster]

24. That AR-15 was very likely smuggled in from the US

The 1919, almost certainly not.

[jeepnstein]

28. Guaranteed the AR was from California...

That is the only place on Earth anyone would buy such a beastly configuration. It's a pump action AR. If Elmer Fudd was going to take on Predator, he'd carry just that gun. He used a double barrel when he faced of with Marvin the Martian.

Did ya notice the AR didn't have any sights on it? Neither does the .50 caliber single shot. And what's up with all the AK magazines? Gee, I know tin foilers who would trade their second child bride for that stash.

The government will never admit where they got the 1919.

[slackmaster]

29. Actually, pump-action ARs are available in Canada and the UK as well

I've never seen one in California. Most people who buy ARs here now are opting for "bullet button" configurations, which are just like a standard configuration except the magazine is a fixed 10-rounder that can be removed with a simple tool. Changing them to a standard detachable-magazine configuration is simple and takes just a few minutes - For example, if you go to a shooting range in a less restrictive state.

:hi:

[jeepnstein]

30. You got me there.

But who's going to take the time and trouble to smuggle a stinker like that all the way from either Canada or the UK?

I saw one once. It was being compared to some kind of pump rifle offered by Remington that took AR mags. The Remington was being marketed to police departments.:donut: The thinking was that it would be an easy transition from 870's to these things. Never happened. The Remington was pretty nice and I wouldn't mind getting one on the cheap but I wouldn't trade and AR for it.

[yay]

33. Deffinetly not a pump action....

I can see the gas block from here. I don't know where you guy's are getting pump action from as it doesn't go into detail in the article.

[jeepnstein]

41. I'm judging it by the forearm.

It has one of those hinky looking forearms like you see on DPMS pump guns. They still put the block on them for mounting a sight. Or I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

[yay]

46. I think you're mistaken

It's just got a varmint handguard. It looks like a LPGB at the front from here.

[jeepnstein]

47. Like I said.

It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong.

Gee, I was having such fun at their expense. I was getting ready to launch into a gigantic lie about how the SEALS are using pump AR's to shoot underwater. C'est la vie...

[one-eyed fat man]

43. the one on the right

is a Lee-Enfield No. 1, Mark III with the fore-stock cut up. In production in various British Commonwealth countries for most of the 20th century it is usually in .303 British, although India produced a few million in 7.62 NATO. Regardless, both cartridges are illegal in Mexico as ALL military ammunition from any country is verboten as is any weapon that chambers it. In the hands of an accomplished shot, even a half mile away, you are not safe from that SMLE built in 1907.

[rl6214]

2. So that's where my .50 cal went!!!

[57_TomCat]

4. That photo shows a...

WWII 30 caliber Browning Machine gun model 1919 I believe. Common military issue during Korea and into Viet Nam. I need to check my references to be sure of the correct nomenclature. It would definitely be an american weapon but NOT something available on the commercial market. A NFA weapon to be sure UNLESS it was one of the semi-auto models now being sold for WWII reenactors. Looks a bit worn for one of those.

[slackmaster]

5. Yes, a 1919-A4

Nice weapon, but a whole lot less powerful than its big sister.

[jeepnstein]

6. The article claims it's Ma Deuce.

[Statistical]

44. No way.

Dimensions are all wrong.

I know M2 in and out. 10 years are Cavalry Scout in Army & National Guard.
My truck in Iraq was armed w/ M2.

No way that is an M2.

Everything is wrong.
We can't measure it because it is a photo but we can look at ratios.
Ratio of width to length of the body is wrong.
Ratio between barrel and weapon body is wrong.
It is missing the signature short shroud on the body.

Size of rounds length to width are also wrong.
Whoever made that guess is 100% wrong.

I can see why they made that guess. At first glance it look like M2 (most recognizable heavy machinegun).
If you look at the photo for more than a second though it is obvious.

M1919 (0.30 cal machinegun)


M2 (0.50 cal machinegun)

[atreides1]

8. It does look like .30 caliber

International variants and derivatives
The M1919 pattern has been used in countries all over the world in a variety of forms and under a number of different designations.

The Browning Mk 1 and Mk 2 were older-style Commonwealth designations for the .303 caliber Browning machine guns used on the vast majority of British aircraft of the Second World War at one point or another. The difference between the Mk 1 and Mk 2 versions is unknown, but the weapon visually is quite similar AN/M2 aircraft gun. The post-war designations for these weapons was L3, and they were used by the United Kingdom, Canada, and Australia to designate the fixed (A1) and flexible (A2) versions of the M1919A4 in .30-06 caliber. L3A3 and L3A4 denoted sear hold-open conversion of previous L3A1s and L3A2s. The A3 is the modified version of the A1, and the A4 is the modified version of the A2. The Canadians later adopted a separate designation for 7.62x51 mm rechambered M1919A4s for fixed (C1) and flexible (C1A1) applications. The C5 and C5A1 were product improvements of the previous C1 and C1A1 respectively.
The Browning was produced by FN-Herstal in Belgium as well, being used in, among others, the Fokker D. XXI fighter.
FN-Browning mle 1938 was the French designation for the FN-built derivative converted to 7.5 mm MAS ammunition. Manufactured in the late 1930s.

MG A4 is the Austrian designation for the M1919A4, not to be confused with MG4, a South African licence-built version of the M1919A4 in current use with the South African National Defence Forces (SANDF). The MG4 is manufactured by Lyttleton Engineering, Pretoria.

Mg M/52-1 and Mg M/52-11 were Danish designations for the M1919A4 and M1919A5 respectively.

The Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) used vehicle-mounted M1919A4 guns converted to 7.62 mm NATO on many of their armored vehicles.
Ksp m/42 was the Swedish designation for license built M1919 chambered in 6.5 x 55 mm or 8 x 63 mm, and from 1975 circa, mostly fitted with barrels in 7.62 x 51 mm. The Ksp m/42B was a lighter version with bipod and shoulder stock (used in a similar way as the M1919A6), chambered in 6.5 x 55 mm and later in 7.62 x 51 mm.

The Poles developed a copy of the Browning M1919 chambered for 7.92 x 57mm Mauser, designated Ckm wz.32, similar to the earlier Ckm wz.30.

And it could have come from any of these countries that still use them:

Argentina
Australia
Greece
Austria
Belgium
Cambodia Locally known as the M30
Canada
Colombia
Denmark
Egypt
France
Japan
India (limited quantity)
Turkey
Myanmar
Philippines
Rhodesia
South Korea
South Vietnam
South Africa
Thailand ปืนกลเบา แบบ 88 (ปกบ.88)
United Kingdom
United States
Sweden
Republic of China (Taiwan)

[TheWraith]

26. Edit: nevermind.

Thought it was an M2, but the barrel shroud isn't long enough.

[Xela]

7. Mexican standard issue at some point

And that looks like sellier bellot (Czech) ammo which is sold in Central America:
http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/sellier-bellot-foreign-partner.php

Maybe it's those gun toting Guatemalans' fault.

Xela

[Xela]

10. The first one of it's kind my...Here's another one, this one described in the correct caliber

This is in Northern Mexico (Tamaulipas).

2008:
http://www.elmanana.com.mx/notas.asp?id=40403

Xela

[jody]

12. The three women suggest the picture is a hoax. n/t

[krispos42]

13. That's a Browning M1919 machine gun

A la Saving Private Ryan. The ammo looks a little long to be 7.62x51... it might still be chambered in the original .30-06.

Note the shoulder strap, just like in Death Wish 4.



And that's not an antiaircraft configuration, either, unless you think shooting it from the hip would be effective.


I think I saw that in a movie once...

[jody]

14. "shooting it from the hip", a scene with Burt Lancaster in "From Here To Eternity". A gym buddy was

a sailor at Pearl on December 7, 1941, fascinating person.

Another gym buddy celebrated his 20th birthday on Iwo Jima.

The U.S. gave him an awesome party by raising the flag on Mt. Suribachi and all the ships set off horns and whistles.

ON EDIT ADD: The last sentence was pure hyperbole of course.

[slackmaster]

15. There can only be one definitive "shooting a 1919-A4 from the hip" movie scene

[jody]

19. Hayden was an undercover agent with Bill Donovan's OSS. "His World War II service included running

guns through German lines to the Yugoslav partisans and parachuting into fascist Croatia. He won the Silver Star and a commendation from Yugoslavia's Marshal Tito."

[jeepnstein]

27. Classic...

He's even got the tin foil on tight. Peace on Earth, Purity of Essence.

[DonP]

16. The AA was not pictured

I don't think they were talking about the 1919 as the AA gun.

(That 1919 does look like it's still chambered in 30-06)

A longer version of the story said they had mounted the AA gun on an SUV, not pictured.

Maybe I'll drive down to Texas next weekend though. Since I have it on official US Government authority, from both the State department and the DoJ, that you can buy a full auto 1919 across the counter at a gun store down there, I figure I can probably pick one up at a local 7-11 if the gun store is too crowded. Maybe a couple of RPG's for Musky fishing too.

[rl6214]

18. Don't waste your time

Being down here in El Paso, I can tell you all the good stuff is picked over. All that's left are really old RPGs and aren't really Muskie compliant and the waiting lines at the 7-11s are just as long as the gun stores. You could cruise the barrio though as I am told some good deals can be gotten there.

[dairydog91]

22. Alas, the MG-42s are rusty and the V2s are out of fuel.

But you might get a good deal on a portable nuke if you shop around a bit.

[Caliman73]

32. Ok

If I was bragging about capturing a .50cal anti aircraft gun from drug smugglers, I would want that thing in the largest photograph in the article.

[one-eyed fat man]

49. one nice feature of

the M1919 air-cooled series, and the M1917 water-cooled series as well, is you can easily install barrels of different calibers. Since the case head diameter of .30-06, 7.92 Mauser and 7.62 NATO is the same and the recoil impulse is similar, if using cloth belts you can screw in the appropriate barrel and shoot whichever of the 3 cartridges is plentiful.

An additional attribute is that bullet style makes no difference in feeding, unlike some guns which will malfunction unless fed military type full metal- jacket ammo.

US tanks used the M37 variant (could be set to feed from either side) as the coax machinegun up into the mid-70's.

[Hoopla Phil]

17. Hey, I've got a semi-auto version of that!

I'd be curious how it got to Mexico. It is most likely originally made in the U.S. but those things have been exported all over the world for a VERY long time. Hell, the one I had was U.S. made and went to Israel before making it's way back in parts and peaces to me.

[slackmaster]

20. I bought three 1919-A4 parts kits and a bunch of spare barrels when they were still easy to find

And not too expensive.

They're part of my retirement plan.

[dairydog91]

21. That's a .30 caliber M1919 machinegun.

It's not a Ma Deuce.

[Iktomiwicasa]

25. Hell

of course, if you know the secret handshake, you can get those at Bobs Gunz 'N Bait just north of the border. Nancy P. sez so, must be true.

:sarcasm:

[Caliman73]

34. Ok they actually did have a .50 cal M2

The Miami Herald and Comcast seem to have the right information about the weapons seized.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/world/AP/story/999547.html

The 5th and 6th pictures show the M2.

[yay]

36. I didn't know all our tanks and humvee's were equiped with anti-aircraft guns

By god the idiocy of some people :wtf:

[Caliman73]

37. Yeah they spin the information.

Technically one of the uses of the M2 is defense against low flying aircraft, but I wouldn't call it a dedicated anti-aircraft gun. There are MUCH MUCH more effective aa guns. But hey, you know that the new organizations are going to milk every salacious detail out of this minor raid.

[yay]

38. Well I suppose they did use them in aircraft against aircraft for a while

And in WWII they hooked 4 of them up for AA, but I think they would be about useless against any modern aircraft short of a helicopter..

I guess it's all in the context..

[Caliman73]

39. whatever context has the slightest bit of truth...

the greatest shock value, and the best sales potential. Can you imagine the paper accurately saying that "the M2 although powerful is not a particularly effective anti-aircraft gun. It is more likely a suppressive fire weapon."

[yay]

40. Nope NT

[Iktomiwicasa]

35. I dunno 'bout the machine gun in that there pic...

...but the lass in the middle sure has a fetching look in her eye :)

[DonP]

42. More PO'd than fetching

She has to be thinking more along the lines of "How did my uncle, the big shot drug cartel head, let these bumbling Federales catch me!"

OTOH it would be interesting to see her go into a TV pitch like Shamwow, encouraging people to "Come on Down right now to Crazy Bobz Gunz & Gear today for our weekend specials on 1919A4's, 50 cal AAA and cases of linked ammo, RPG 7's now on sale buy 4 and get one free. Full auto AK-47s by the case, only $650 per rifle."

I expect to see these pictures used multiple times by Brady and their ilk claiming the hardware pictured was all bought at US gun stores.