They're coming after your gun

[florida08]

From the NRA website
What they didn't tell you today
http://www.nra.org/

They're coming after every law abiding gun owner in America and they want your name and information in a federal database. That's right national registration of all firearms.

Pelosi on Good Morning America
..the Supreme Court has ruled in a direction that gives more opportunity for people to have guns. We never denied that right.We don't want to take them away, We want them registered--and we have to rid the debate of misconceptions that people have about what gun safety means.

Pelosi's idea of "gun safety" is every gun ban ammunition ban and licensing scheme that has come across her desk.
****************************************************************************************************************
Please help me to understand this. I have rifles, handguns etc in my name. All registered as has been the law in my state since I can remember. Why now is this a big deal? When I use to raise the issue about warrantless wiretapping by the previous administration I got rebuked with "what are you hiding"? I now believe that shoe fits the other foot. "What are you trying to suppress or hide"? A registration is effective in a civil society. I have no problem with it. They're ticked about the idea reinstating the assault weapon ban legislation that recently expired. Does anyone need an AK 47 to shoot a dear?

If you do some checking AK semi automatic can be made fully automatic which is becoming a problem in this country in the border states. Ammo is flying off the shelves and online as well since 2008 and has gotten worse for those of us who like to target practice. I mean by the thousands of rounds in one purchase. Does anyone here have a fear of losing their right to hold, own and use responsibly their weapon or have a problem with national registration? Perhaps I'm missing something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14c

[babylonsister]

1. What a bunch of b.s. The NRA helps nothing with this campaign of fear. nt

[SteveM]

91. The NRA does promote fear, but did Pelosi really say that? (nt)

[Catherine Vincent]

2. There was a report in our area on gun sales not too long ago

One of the gunshops had a pic of President Obama hanging on the wall to remind the idiots in there to stock up on ammo and guns.

[L0oniX]

4. I saw one of those too and I told the owner that was bullshit and I quit going there.

[konnichi wa]

3. I have several guns and not one of them ever has been 'registered' or ever will be.

Someone has lied to you about AK "conversions" to full auto. I know a lot of people believe the lie, though.

[Mojorabbit]

18. None of mine are registered either

My pop may he RIP always said that would just give the govt a list of who owns them. He always thought it was none of their business.

[konnichi wa]

21. It's also one of several reasons I never joined the NRA

I think they're goofy in many ways and I wouldn't have any faith that they wouldn't turn over their membership rolls to some bureaucrat under some conditions. Heston was goofy too in some ways but I don't find any fault with his 'cold dead hands' comment.
Yeah, I know that will earn me some nasty replies. Too bad.

[MajorChode]

19. It was easy enough for David Koresh to do it

If you have the right model and are determined to do it, the information and parts can be acquired. You can go to just about any gun show and some nut will be selling manuals that explain the process. I've known people that have done it illegally and were stupid enough to brag about it(or at least claimed they did). Many more think they have a constitutional right to convert them.

[konnichi wa]

23. It's easier just to manufacture one from scratch. There are thousands of machine shops

with adequate equipment to do that...

[MajorChode]

35. You're kidding, right?

[konnichi wa]

38. No, of course not. You don't understand how a skilled machinist/die maker

could easily design and make an automatic gun? Jeezus, convicts in prisons come close with NO equipment.:eyes:

[MajorChode]

39. You're confusing "could" with "easy"

Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it's practical.

[konnichi wa]

41. No, I am saying it is about as 'easy' to make one from scratch as it is to modify

an existing one to make it automatic. I keep hearing these stories about how I can just order a conversion kit on the internet but nobody has yet been able or willing to give me a link where they actually exist. If you can find one, buy it and I'll buy it from you for 5 times what you paid for it. If it's real and it works.

[MajorChode]

51. There are over 50 individual parts to a fully auto AK-47

So you're saying that even if someone did have the resources to build one from "scratch" that they couldn't more easily modify the existing receiver or even build a new receiver and then attach the rest of the parts.

Koresh managed to modify 46 semi-auto rifles to full auto and several more that were in the process of being converted. But you're trying to convince everyone that it would have been "easier" to build them from scratch.

Right.

[pipoman]

64. Nobody really knows what Koresh had or didn't have..really

but to the point of conversion...

First, possession of parts to convert or a converted fully auto are 10 year federal felonies.

Second, conversion of a modern semi auto rifle of any make on the US market would require a machine shop and enough machine shop skills to produce a gun completely from scratch.

Third, anyone who is willing to risk the punishment for owning or converting or selling the parts to convert has bad intentions and isn't simply looking for a thrill at the range. They are looking to commit crime with the illegal hardware. Yet, you can Google 'til your fingers fall off and can't find a single solitary instance of anyone committing a crime with such a gun in over 10 years. Think about that for a minute...how is this even possible if these illusive, kits are so widely available...not a report of someone being arrested with one of these in their possession, no bank robberies with one, no authorities, what so ever, claiming to have seized even one...amazing really isn't it?

Fourth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysf8x477c30

If you choose to educate yourself and watch this video you will hear the director of the ATFE, the LA police commissioner and a police firearms expert giving sworn testimony before government panels about this very topic. The armorer from LA testifying before the CA house that in all his years at LA and in over 50k firearms seized he has never seen a semi which had been converted to full auto and that semi auto conversion is a myth.

Here is the quote: Los Angeles Detective Jimmy Trahin testifying before the California State Assembly,"in my 12 years within the unit, considering the enormous amount of firearms we have taken into custody, and that's over 50,000 I would say, and these include ones from the hardcore gangs and the drug dealers, our unit has never, ever had one ak47 converted, one Ruger Mini 14 converted, an H&K 8193...never converted, an AR180 never converted, so this media blitz of these military style assault weapons being converted to fully automatic is not true."

[X_Digger]

65. *crickets* n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

77. You know that's really not fair. Like taking candy from a baby.

[beevul]

89. The truly sad part, is that its true, Dave.

I mean...


Literally...Like taking candy from a baby.



Why do they bother??


That particular strategy has gotten them into the position they're in today - which I think even they (maybe not in public) would admit on some level is not one of any power or prominence.


It doesn't work...Yet they continue.


I'm seeing a pattern here...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

90. Very sad all they have left is drive by postings in the Gungeon.

[Howzit]

67. Making a gun that is only full auto is actually easier than one that can select between semi and ful

Here is one that seems to work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPhbdW9SxEM

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw_0_10?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=expedient+homemade+firearms&sprefix=expedient+

[anonymous171]

5. I see that the NRA is doing its best to help raise gun and ammunition prices

[SteveM]

92. Not near as much as Obama, the DNC & Pelosi. They should charge fees (nt)

[sandnsea]

6. Tell them it's a concealed weapon license

And they can hide them in their pants as long as they're registered. For reasons beyond me, they'll actually PAY to do that.

[opihimoimoi]

7. LOL....The GOP....They are coming for your BRAINS to capture and dominate, exploit BEWARE the GOP

[L0oniX]

13. Well that may happen after they get finnished eating each others brains first.

[opihimoimoi]

61. ya forgot Michel Bachmann's pic in there...along with Hannity's

[Iggo]

8. You think the gov't doesn't have a list...

...of everyone in the NRA?

[jody]

9. 80+ million gun-owners and many were among the 130+ million voters in the last election. Only a fool

would anger 80+ million potential voters, their families, and friends by proposing any bill that would infringe upon the natural, inherent, inalienable/unalienable right of citizens to keep and bear arms for self-defense.

Obama's no fool as shown by his efforts to change his anti-RKBA persona by promising "I believe in the Second Amendment. I believe in people's lawful right to bear arms. I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I won't take your handgun away." and by his recent removal from his web site of statements saying he supports renewing the Assault Weapons Ban.

[Democrats_win]

10. It's ok, the GOP and the banksters already took everything else.

[Brentwood]

11. NRA fear-mongering

I hope the gun-show loopholes are closed and we again have the assault weapon ban. I am amazed that we still have so many uneducated dummys out there that believe this stuff. Some crazys think that the government is coming to take away their weapons.

Their state of mind somehow reminds me of that old 1966 song "They're Coming to Take Me Away Ha Haa" describing a form of madness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42fycsKu-5E

[X_Digger]

68. There is no 'gun show loophole'

If a dealer wants to sell a gun at a show, he has to go through the same paperwork / background check that he does anyplace else.

If a private seller (you, me, tom, dick, harry) wants to sell their gun to another private citizen in the same state, the federal government can't intercede (interstate commerce clause of the constitution.) Four states do legislate that private sellers have to go through a FFL (licensed dealer) to sell to each other.

[NewMoonTherian]

74. Your post was kind of all over the place.

You criticized and mocked the NRA and their members for the notion that "the government is coming to take away their weapons" and, in the paragraph, you remark on the restrictions you want to see on gun ownership. If your wish comes true, then they were entirely justified in their attitude.

[L0oniX]

12. The main problem with registration may be this...

What will the police do if someone in your area is killed or shot with a weapon ...say a 9mm ...will they look up all those in your area who own a 9mm and come to your house and take your weapon so they can have it checked for recent use and a forensic comparison test of the bullets? Will they take you down town and drill you on your whereabouts at the time of the crime too? I have a problem with being punished or penalized for a crime that someone else committed and this kind of interruption, waste of my time and butt hole inspection would be very un welcomed. It's just what I need ...some asshole cop busting down my door in the middle of the night to have my gun checked out ...it's just asking for a problem with a gun owner using his gun for defense and possibly shooting a cop for thinking he was a criminal breaking in.

[MadHound]

15. Do cops come busting into your garage in order to check out your car?

After all, there was a hit and run just a few miles away involving a car similar to yours.

The one proposition is as ludicrous as the other.

[konnichi wa]

26. There are many, many examples of cops busting down doors looking for

illegal activity and/or contraband...often the WRONG HOUSE. I think it's kinda funny how the cops are routinely demonized around here except when they're finding guns. Every other assault on constitutional rights is properly condemned.

[MadHound]

40. Of course, that's not what I was talking about,

I was talking about a cop busting down your door in order to look at your car. Please stay on topic.

Oh, and please show me where I've praised cops for finding guns or seizing guns. I'll be waiting, for a long while.

Again, please stay on topic. Thanks

[konnichi wa]

47. Wait...YOU brought up looking at cars, and *I*'m off-topic?

:wtf: :eyes:

[MadHound]

49. Considering that you made a magical leap of illogic

From a cop wanting to look at your car to cops busting down doors in the middle of the night AND that I praise cops when they seize guns, yes, I would say that you're grossly off topic.

Now, if you want to answer my original question, fine, if not, they you're simply wasting bandwidth here trying to get me into an off topic argument because you can't deal with the topic at hand.

Any other simple answers for stupid questions?

[konnichi wa]

54. I'm terribly sorry, I don't have any simple answers for stupid questions.

...

[MadHound]

59. So in other words all you've got left is ad hominems and personal attacks,

And you can't even stay on topic. About what I figured.

Get back to me when you want to actually discuss the point I brought up instead of hurling insults.

[L0oniX]

29. So what is your opinion or reason why registration is talked about? What's the point of it?

If they want to come an take my registered gun away for what ever reason I can lie and tell them I threw it in the gulf.

[MadHound]

44. What is the point of registering your car?

Hmm, perhaps to retrieve your car if it is stolen. Same applies to your gun. Oh, and why do you think that "they" are going to come and take your gun away? Has anybody in any position of authority ever threatened to do such? Besides, if "they" wanted to take your gun away, and "they" were being that sort of jack booted thug about it, do you think "they" would take your word for what you did with it? No, "they" would toss your house and find your gun. Good thing that this little scenario of yours is nothing more than a paranoid fever dream, and here in reality "they" really don't give a damn about your gun unless you do something stupid with it, like shoot somebody. In fact, given how "they" are now pressing for allowing CCW everywhere, including in churches and businesses, "they" are bending over backwards to please gun owners, to the point where "they" are willing to trample all over everybody else's rights so that you can carry your precious, precious gun.

But apparently you're on that bleeding edge that thinks that sort of gun regulation is some sort of sign of the gun apocalypse, and "they" will come busting down your door to take your gun. I truly suggest that you get this paranoia checked out, it isn't logical or healthy.

[konnichi wa]

48. Would I be correct if I were to assume you have no guns, never had any guns,

hate guns, and know nothing about guns except they and their owners are 'evil'?

Car registrations are nothing more than revenue raisers. I can't believe anybody doesn't know that.

[MadHound]

52. You know what they say about ass u me

You wish to go out skeet shooting sometime? Not only do I have the guns for it, but also the clay pigeons and the thrower.

Yes, car registration does raise revenue, but given how many cars are involved in deaths, injuries and accidents, they need to be registered in order to help police solve crimes. Same reason that guns should be registered.

Any other assumptions that you want to make, or are you tired of being made a fool. Yes, I'm part of that majority of gun owners who believe in reasonable gun controls, including things like registration. You on the other hand are apparently in the minority, since not only are you against gun registration, but apparently car registration too. You really should stop and talk to some of those cops you think that everybody demonizes and ask them about these things. Cars are registered for good reason, as all guns should be. But you apparently think it's all some big conspiracy:eyes:

[L0oniX]

62. pffft what ever

[safeinOhio]

20. The fourth Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

PROBABLE CAUSE

By the time the Constitution is so trashed that the second, fourth, fifth and fourteenth are gone, all the guns will be in use. The NRA needs to be on meds.

[spanone]

30. do you really think a policeman is going to bust your door down in the middle of the night?

or some 'asshole' cop as you put it?

[jody]

33. Suggest you read "Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America" and browse

"Blotched Paramilitary Police Raids:"

[L0oniX]

34. Oh yea ...you are right ...that never happens.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2008/05/27/student-to-sue-city-after-cops-bust-down-door/

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=44187

[konnichi wa]

14. By the way, if you really are in Florida, there is NO requirement to 'register' any guns.

Except the federal requirement for fully-automatic ones...which Florida has nothing to do with.

[HALO141]

87. It's possible...

he's confusing the 4473 for with a registration form.


I'm just sayin.

[Iris]

16. Hmmm....I guess "they" are going to take our cars, too!

After all, we register those as well.

[SheilaT]

17. Those of us who

don't own guns and have no interest in owning them are constantly amused by the ignorance and gullibility of at least some gun owners.

It seems to me as though this exact kind of fear mongering -- OH MY GOD THEY'RE GOING TO COME AND TAKE AWAY ALL OF OUR GUNS!!!! -- has been out there for a really long time. I'm sure I heard crap like that forty years ago.

And I honestly don't understand why anyone would have a problem with registering their guns.

[jody]

24. Pro-RKBA group is more amused by the ignorance and gullibility of at least some anti-RKBA types. nt

[konnichi wa]

27. Ah, how nice. The old "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"

argument.
bah

[L0oniX]

31. Yea ...heheh ...that really worked out well for Bush didn't it.

[benEzra]

37. It's never been about "all" guns, just those the repubs at the Brady Campaign are fighting to ban.

No one is trying to outlaw flintlocks, and even the UK allows the ownership of sniper-style bolt-actions and big-bore shotguns. The concern is that the Third Way DLC types will do exactly what they tried to do in the 1990's, and outlaw rifles with modern styling, guns with post-1860's magazine capacities, and so on, which is indeed a valid concern.

The Moral Majority never wanted to outlaw all books, either, just the ones they didn't like.

FWIW, here's some background on the gun issue that may be helpful: Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What?

It was written in '04, and I think it was largely vindicated in '06 and '08. It will at least let you know where Dem and indie gun owners are coming from.

[benEzra]

22. Some misconceptions here...

All registered as has been the law in my state since I can remember. Why now is this a big deal? When I use to raise the issue about warrantless wiretapping by the previous administration I got rebuked with "what are you hiding"? I now believe that shoe fits the other foot. "What are you trying to suppress or hide"? A registration is effective in a civil society. I have no problem with it.

The number of states that require registration, you can count on one hand. But if there weren't a powerful, well-funded lobby trying to outlaw the most popular firearms in America, there might be less resistance to the idea of giving them a "Who Owns What and Should We Let Them Keep It" list.

Registration and licensing hasn't worked out so well for gun owners in the UK, Australia, or New York City, and there is little reason to think it would be any less abused were it enacted nationwide.

They're ticked about the idea reinstating the assault weapon ban legislation that recently expired. Does anyone need an AK 47 to shoot a dear?

Actual AK-47's are as tightly controlled in this country as howitzers and bombs. The "assault weapon" fraud is not about banning AK-47's; it is about banning the most popular non-automatic civilian target rifles and defensive carbines in America. So-called "assault weapons" dominate centerfire target shooting in this country, and the top 3 centerfire rifle calibers in the USA are "assault weapon" calibers (.223 Remington/5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm, and .308 Winchester/7.62x51mm).

BTW, only 1 in 5 U.S. gun owners hunts. The primary reasons that Americans own guns are defensive purposes and recreational target shooting, which is why proposing to outlaw the most popular target and defense guns is so controversial.

If you do some checking AK semi automatic can be made fully automatic which is becoming a problem in this country in the border states.

No, civilian AK's are built on civilian-only receivers that are designed to be as difficult to convert to full auto as any other civilian autoloader; they also use civilian-only bolt carriers and civilian-only fire control parts. I know, I own one (2002 model SAR-1 that I shoot competitively and recreationally with).

Under Federal law (National Firearms Act), any gun easily convertible to full auto IS a full auto for the purposes of the law, even if not actually converted.

Ammo is flying off the shelves and online as well since 2008 and has gotten worse for those of us who like to target practice. I mean by the thousands of rounds in one purchase. Does anyone here have a fear of losing their right to hold, own and use responsibly their weapon or have a problem with national registration? Perhaps I'm missing something.

The ammo shortage began in 2005, when post-Katrina hedging met Iraq War demand, but it has accelerated of late. It is driven primarily by concerns over new bans on the most popular rifles and handguns, which has caused sales of those rifles and pistols (and ammo to go along with them) to skyrocket. Production of other calibers has been cut back to shift resources toward the popular calibers.

There is also concern that the administration might cut off imports of foreign made ammunition like the Clinton administration did with China. If eastern European ammunition imports were halted, the price of 7.62x39mm ammunition would probably triple or quadruple. New production bottlenecks stemming from proposed microstamping legislation are also a concern.

[konnichi wa]

25. Explaining the nuts and bolts of firearms to gun haters is exactly like trying to teach evolution

to fundamentalists. They cannot process information or facts that contradict their preconceived opinions. Their reasoning process is backward - they begin with a conclusion and attempt to work back to a premise and don't know or admit it's an exercise in stupidity.

[spanone]

28. thank you O enlightened one.

:sarcasm:

[konnichi wa]

32. You are very welcome.

:sarcasm:

[Paladin]

46. Your Attitude Suits Me Just Fine.

I'm on the other side of this issue from you. I don't have anything to say that will change your mind, and you sure as hell don't have anything to say that will change mine. Gotta love your Evolution/Fundamentalists comparison, considering you gun fundamentalists' ideas on firearms and society clearly haven't evolved for the last 300 years or so....

[konnichi wa]

No, you won't change my mind. I still value the 230 year old Constitution.

Some people hate it.
(you won't get my guns either so I guess that pretty much leaves you in the proverbial lurch)

[Paladin]

60. If You're Like Most Gun Extremists, The 2nd Amendment Is All That Matters To You.

You'll pay lip service to the whole Constitution, but if it isn't directly related to guns, it's not really that important to you. You people could change that perception by talking about something besides guns every once in a while.

By the way, I am going to get your guns. I'll be by your place this evening. 7:00 work for you?

[friendly_iconoclast]

86. Gee, when I (and others) opposed warrentless wiretaps, we were called enablers...

...of terrorism. Now we get told we are indifferent to gun crime.

Are you really all that different from the Bush apologists?

[SOS]

36. A simple 3 step process:

1. Tell your members that the nefarious Nancy Pelosi is coming to take your gun.
2. Ask members to send money to fight this terrible threat.
3. Cash the checks.

Works like a charm.

[havocmom]

42. Have come to conclusion that the gun and ammo merchants have a great marketing plan

They are being creative about surviving a very down economy. Nothing more.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

57. The new administration seems to be helping them.

[Statistical]

43. Most states (INCLUDING FLORIDA) have no required registration n/t

So how exactly did you register a weapon in Florida?

Write serial numbers down on a sheet of notebook paper and mail it via registered mail to Brady Campaign?

[aikoaiko]

45. So the NRA didn't say "They're coming after your gun". That's something you 'created', right?

Right?

Seriously, the NRA uses enough hyperbole without people exagerating their rhetoric for them.

You asked: "Does anyone here have a fear of losing their right to hold, own and use responsibly their weapon or have a problem with national registration?"

Yes, because my choices have already been limited with past legislation. As far as registration is concerned, there are better ways to solve the problem that registration seeks to solve.

I don't own a semi-automatic AK-47 styled carbine yet, but if I did, I would one for self-defense and recreational shooting -- not hunting deer.

[Revolution9]

55. i think "they're coming after your gun" is a meme

that is what they are all secretly think. or at least trying to imagine in order to justify their own paranoia and hate.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

73. "they are all secretly think." Why don't you try that again? Maybe get your mom to help.

[Deja Q]

50. They're free to use mine. My gun hasn't gone off in years.

Wait, you mean this is about violence, not sex? :wow:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

53. So you said that not the NRA?

[florida08]

66. what does this say to you?

Pelosi's idea of "gun safety" is every gun ban ammunition ban and licensing scheme that has come across her desk.
If you notice the word "ban" was used twice..now does that not imply Pelosi is going to take away your gun rights?

[NewMoonTherian]

70. Absolutely.

And it's entirely justified, if you recall the assault weapon ban, D.C.'s handgun ban and long gun restrictions, and the gun laws of Illinois, New York and California. She pays lip service to the second amendment, but history shows that a number of high-ranking Democrats are still bent on political suicide in the form of gun ban legislation.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

72. You said the NRA said they were coming after my guns, not my gun rights.

So which is it?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

88. Are those crickets I hear?

[TheWraith]

56. Semi-automatic can NOT be made fully automatic. That's a myth.

It's theoretically possible to do, but then so is building your own car from scratch.

[tucsonlib]

69. Really? Then Explain This..

Seriously, I'd like to know. My 10/22 is JEALOUS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udqDe_QfOF0

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

71. Certainly not impossible. It is difficult and highly illegal without special permits.

Gun that can be easily converted are illegal also.

David

[Taitertots]

78. It is easy to see through their bullshit

Just tell them if they know a gun is easily convertible to automatic they should call the ATF.

[Taitertots]

75. Pre-1986 registered automatic

My 10/22 is jealous too.

Too bad in 1986 I was 2.

[X_Digger]

79. Fully legal..

If you'd put the youtube username into google, you'd see this..

http://www.gunrunnersusa.com/

Not a 'conversion', *sigh*

This is a pre-86 full auto (if you search gunbroker for his previous auctions it lists more details on this gun.) A post-86 10/22 has serious changes made to the receiver and trigger group that make 'conversion' - even just replacing with pre-86 parts - next to impossible.

[Pullo]

80. Another red herring, shot out of the sky

[florida08]

58. FYI

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC0655.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch0790->Section%200655#0790.0655
b) Records of handgun sales must be available for inspection by any law enforcement agency, as defined in s. 934.02, during normal business hours.
I'm sure the FDLE just discards all criminal background checks for gun sales


http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/mexican-drug-cartels-binge-on-american-bullets/
Mexican Drug Cartels Binge on American Bullets

http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A389090
Mexico's drugs come north. America's guns go south.


Yes we no "state sponsored registration"..I still have no problem with it.

[pipoman]

76. So then,

I have rifles, handguns etc in my name. All registered as has been the law in my state since I can remember.

This is hyperbole? A mistake?

Of coarse a blatant misstatement leads me to question the existence of said rifles, handguns, etc. and the credibility of the post in general....just me..

[jody]

63. Your OP did survive for a short time in GD before being banished to the Guns forum. n/t

[applegrove]

81. With this NRA the USA isn't allowed to sign a treaty banning the sale of small arms around the world

We know that some guns sold abroad will be used to attack Americans some day.

[jody]

82. Please provide a link to the NRA statement opposing the treaty to which you refer in your OP so I

can use it in my arguments.

Thanks in advance for your help. :hi:

[applegrove]

83. I saw Lou Dobbs talk about denying Americans their right with this bill. I assumed

it was a NRA position. Sorry if I am wrong. I'm really glad to hear that the NRA is for the treaty if it is. I think it is a really, really important bill.

[jody]

85. IMO repeating what someone thought they heard a talking head say about something they know nothing

about can lead to a pooling of ignorance.

I don't see how that can contribute very much to a productive discussion on any inalienable right that pre-existed our Constitution and in no way depends it for legitimacy.

Have a wonderful day and I hope you join me in supporting all inalienable rights our Constitution requires government to protect particularly those enumerated in the First, Second, and Fourth Amendments.

:hi:

[benEzra]

84. Define "banning the sale of small arms around the world."

If you mean IANSA's pet project, a treaty to outlaw LEGITIMATE commerce in small arms (i.e., law-abiding American adults with clean records buying Austrian Glocks, Russian Saigas, or Finnish M39's, on the theory that only governments should be allowed to own anything other than sporting toys), then yes, that would be a problem.

A treaty to control sales of machineguns to Third World dictators or insurgents is one thing; an international treaty to ban sales of handguns, "assault weapons", and surplus ammunition to non-LEO civilians is something else entirely.

[SteveM]

93. So, you want an uber prohibitionist scheme when the local stuff fails? (nt)