Is this story also misleading

[MichaelHarris]

photo of the actual weapon http://www.silsbeebee.com/news.php?viewStory=994

or is this another one of my lies? I quoted this story in my last post, one of you guys said not one of my quoted articles involved an assault rifle. Is this an AK-47 an assault rifle? This is the actual weapon used. You guys continue to humor me, I love it!

This one? Police say I-64 shootout suspect used AK-47 assault rifle
To understand the power of the weapon that Officer Sean Fleming was confronting, know this: Police believe two rounds went through Fleming's Jeep before piercing his bullet-resistant vest. Top officials with the department said the gunfire from White's rifle was so potent that it most likely would have penetrated the stronger, tactical vests given to SWAT team members and narcotics officers.http://hamptonroads.com/2009/06/police-say-i64-shootout-suspect-used-ak47-assault-rifle

I would hate to think these cops are lying.

[Wickerman]

1. I sure don't know, but it has a number of scary features!

Is that an honest to god pistol grip?

[MichaelHarris]

2. no idea

I'm not actually in favor of an assault weapon ban. I am, however a strong proponent of the truth. These weapons are dangerous in the wrong hands and incidents are on the rise. There is nothing wrong with seeing the truth. Keep your weapons but realize we have a problem when law enforcement has trouble protecting themselves from more powerful weapons. Only an idiot would disagree with that. Check back and watch them disagree. Gun oil gives them a hard-on.

[one-eyed fat man]

12. Looking closely at the picture

You will notice that the rifle is missing the features that the 1994 ban claimed would characterize it as an assault weapon. By definition, it needed to be semiautomatic, and have at least three of a list of banned features. The bayonet lug is not there, no grenade launcher, no flash suppressor, no threaded barrel, no protruding pistol grip, no folding stock, only a detachable magazine.

Therefore, by the definition of the law Dianne Feinstein authored and championed it isn't an assault weapon. So even if the law had not expired, the rifle, as pictured, would not been banned.

It certainly was a weapon used in an assault, and certainly is something I wouldn't want a criminal to have, but when you have laws crafted by emotional idiots with the technical acumen of an eggplant you get, at a minimum, ineffective laws and at worst, completely counter-productive laws.

Moreover, military-styled guns had only a small following prior to the '94 ban. The M1A (semi-auto version of the M14, and the AR-15 (semi-auto version of the M16) were mostly popular with match shooters. The AK was a novelty, not particularly powerful or accurate, but legendary in its ability to function despite the neglect of Third World conscripts. If the stated purpose of the '94 law the was to reduce the number of those kinds of guns in circulation it was a monumental and epic failure. During the 10 years the ban was in effect, guns just like in the picture were being built, because the ban CREATED the market for them. Now you had criminals seeking these weapons out because MORONS had convinced IDIOTS (with a little help from Hollywood) that somehow these guns were more "dangerous." Talk about about working at cross purposes! Plus we have the legacy of all those guns sold fueled by the BAN fever.

Think back 20-odd years ago when only those folks who were likely to read "Jane's" or "Defense Weekly" could have told you what sidearm the Austrian army had adopted. Thanks again to folks like Jack Anderson and Paul Helmke and the "plastic gun" every gang banger wannabe rapper wants a "Glock Foh-tay" stuck in his waistband to go with the AK in his crib.

Now, if you are bound and determined to ban any firearm presently legally available, you will have to address these issues:

If you make a class of guns illegal, do you just ban future production? What do you do about the ones people already have?

Do you "grandfather " them and for how long? The life of the original owner? His immediate heirs? Until you change your mind again?

If you propose to confiscate them, do you recompense the owners for their lost property and who sets the price? If you don't propose to confiscate, will the current owner be able to sell? To whom and how?

If criminals keep misusing firearms, would that justify taking even more guns away from everyone else?

How do you keep a hobbyist with machine shop in the basement with the skill to build a working quarter scale steam engine from scratch from building any kind of gun he wants?

Or Mexicans from smuggling real machinguns north from Guatemala along with dope and undocumented immigrants?

Since Canada's registration plan is $119 billion OVER budget, and Ottawa has extended another amnesty to try and get compliance do you think the American population will be more docile than our neighbors up North?

If, and I know it is asking a lot, you can get over the mindset that if guns were never invented unicorns and faeries would rule the planet. Maybe if you let the hobbyists alone with their hobby, no matter how eccentric you may think they are, as long as the only thing hurt is your sensibilities, then we could concentrate on keeping guns away from the people the law now says shouldn't have them. And a commitment to locking up those who misuse them. To repeatedly let career criminals slide on gun charges all the while campaigning for more gun laws is a blatant self-serving hypocrisy that should cost a lot of big city politicos their jobs!

[Euromutt]

18. Correction on Canadian gun registration

It was supposed to cost C$119 million. It's already cost over C$2 billion and probably closer to C$3 billion.

[X_Digger]

24. From the federal study of the effectiveness of the '94 AWB..

Sales of the AR-15 went up ahead of CA's '89 ban, then the '94 ban. There were up to 6 times as many AR-15s sold during the ban as before CA started the ban craze.

[benEzra]

20. What you're missing is that traditional looking weapons are EQUALLY dangerous

and always have been, and that handguns are, statistically, far more dangerous than rifles and shotguns due to portability and surprise. This is borne out by not only the FBI Uniform Crime Reports data, but also the FBI Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted data and the NLEOMF data.

Incidents of rifle homicide do not seem to be significantly on the rise, police-officer rifle deaths have been steady for years, and overall police officer shooting deaths in 2008 were at their lowest level since 1956. National reporting of such incidents, on the other hand, rises and falls depending on political agendas and the desire to profit financially or politically from fear.

Most civilian firearms are not getting "more powerful." Aesthetics are changing, as they always do, but rate of fire has been frozen for over seven decades, and the trend over the last 20 years has been toward less powerful guns for general use. Moving from a .308 to a .223 or from a .30-30 to a 7.62x39mm is a step down in power, not up.

[AtheistCrusader]

47. I was kind of snarky with you in another post...

I apologize for that, since you seem to be seeking the truth.

I will say, the author of that article is a jackass, and shouldn't even think of touching a story like this again. Whether the cops gave him the correct information or not, he at the very least, failed to fact-check anything with anyone who knows anything about the weapon in the picture.

In the State of California, this is an Assault Weapon, becase this rifle will accept detachable magazines of any size. In the rest of the country, even when the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban was in effect, this weapon was perfectly legal for purchase and importation, and is not classified as an Assault Weapon.

(Perhaps not legal for importation during the AWB if it does have a bayonet lug, I can't tell for certain because the picture sucks).

It is not an Assault Rifle, because the weapon does not have the semi or full-auto modes (called Select-Fire) that an actual military AK-47 would have.

[AtheistCrusader]

45. Nope, that's a 'thumbhole' stock, not a naughty feature.

Can't tell for sure though, but it might have one of those super-dangerous mass murdering bayonet mounts.

[baldguy]

3. You're expecting rationality from gun worshipers?

Officer Fleming is obviously either lying or simply doesn't know what he's talking about - and certainly doesn't respect the Heller decision or Mr Herrington's God-given Constitutional right to be be an idiot with an assault rifle.

(:sarcasm: for the sarcasm impaired.)

[MichaelHarris]

4. He was

probably absent the day they taught AK-47

[MercutioATC]

36. "Rationality" is subjective. Facts aren't. That's not an automatic weapon.

...and if it was, it would be heavily regulated under existing federal law.


That might not meet your subjective standard of "rationality", but it's the truth.

[AtheistCrusader]

48. Officer Flemming was either misquoted, or doesn't know what he was talking about.

Fixed that for you.

Also, you don't know either. In the State of California, you can call that an Assault Weapon. Outside California, it is not, and no place on the entire PLANET is it an Assault Rifle. Period.

[Abq_Sarah]

5. That's a Norinco

A Chinese AK. I bought one a couple of years ago that had that same fugly stock. It was the first thing I got rid of. Fortunately, mine wasn't covered in rust.

[Merchant Marine]

6. They got the caliber wrong...

"Monday, representatives from the TDCJ returned to the scene with other officers and found the AK-47 rifle with one shell in the chamber that he was using. The AK-47 shoots a .223 shell."

The AK is chambered in 7.62x39, a .30 caliber intermediate round.

And yeah, no shit a rifle is going to penetrate a soft vest, they're designed to resist pistol caliber rounds. If he has been using a rifle with a bigger cartridge like an M1 Garand in .30-06 it would have penetrated even better. God forbid a hunting rifle in .308.

And technically an "Assault Rifle" is a select-fire weapon. This AK is a civilian semiautomatic that actually would not have been classified as an "Assault Weapon" under the AWB because it only has two "Evil Features"- the removable magazine and pistol grip. The only thing that makes this rifle different from a deer rifle is some scary furniture, a bigger magazine and a much weaker caliber of cartridge.

[Abq_Sarah]

7. The Norinco

Is chambered in either 5.56x45 or 7.62x39.

[AtheistCrusader]

49. That one appears to be 7.62

Based upon the magazines and mag well.

Possible that one is 5.56, but I doubt it.

[Howzit]

29. Almost. They got the gun's model wrong

The plastic magazine are for an AK74, the .22 caliber variant of the AK47.

It is not the same as the .223 Remington or 5.56 mm Nato, but related to the 7,62 x 39 mm Russian round.

In any event, this rifle is probably a civilian semi-auto, so not a real AK74.

It only takes one rifle round to penetrate soft body armor intended to stop handgun bullets, so the scary looks of the gun are irrelevant.

[Abq_Sarah]

35. Or it might be a converted magazine

The 5.45 bakelite mags can be converted to .223. I've got a couple that came with mine.

[krispos42]

8. Pretty much any rifle round will penetrate a patrol vest

And a good many will also take out a SWAT vest as well.


This graph may help. For comparison, the typical power of a .38 is about 200 ft-lbs, a 9mm or .45 is about 325, and a .357 about 450.





AK-47-pattern and SKS rifles shoot the 7.62mm Soviet, a.k.a. 7.62x39mm.

[Euromutt]

9. "Mistaken" does not equal "lying"

But the article from the Virginian-Pilot is riddled with inaccuracies and sensationalist "details."

Fleming had been on his way home from work Monday afternoon and was still wearing a typical, so-called level-3 vest issued to all Chesapeake officers.

Level III body armor is too bulky to be concealable; patrol officer typically wear level II and IIIA vests, and I would assume that Fleming was in fact wearing a level IIIA vest. This is not a trivial distinction, as IIIA is designed to stop a 125-grain .357 SIG flat-nosed full metal jacketed (FMJ) bullet, or a 240-grain .44 Magnum semi-jacketed hollowpoint (SJHP), both of which are handgun rounds. (All other things being equal, hollowpoints have less armor-penetrating capability than FMJ rounds.) Level III, on the other hand, is designed to stop a 148-grain 7.62x51mm NATO FMJ bullet; this is the bullet fired by such weapons as the FN FAL and M14 rifles, and the M60 and M240 machine guns.

Top officials with the department said the gunfire from White's rifle was so potent that it most likely would have penetrated the stronger, tactical vests given to SWAT team members and narcotics officers.

If they're correct, they've been shafted by their supplier. The 7.62x51mm NATO round (aka the .308 Winchester) is typically a more powerful round than the 7.62x39mm Russian fired by Kalashnikov variants, so if the Chesapeake PD's level III vests won't stand up to 7.62x39mm Russian, the vests are not up to spec.

Police say White could have unloaded as many as 30 rounds at the green Jeep Wrangler that Fleming was driving. Investigators said they believe some of those bullets may have gone through both the car metal and bulletproof vest, Branch said.

Car bodywork simply isn't bullet-resistant; it's made to be as light as possible, whereas collision impact resistance is provided by the "cage." There's a series of web pages called "The Buick of Truth" (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/thebuickotruth.htm) in which the authors tried shooting various types of rounds into various parts of an old Buick to see how well it would stand up. Car doors will not even stop a 9x19mm handgun round: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot3.htm
For that matter, a .357 Magnum FMJ bullet can penetrate smaller car engines, and the engine is the densest--and thus most bullet-resistant--part of any car (other than armored limos and the like).

So the bottom line is here that some intermediate-powered rifle rounds went through stuff that isn't designed to stop rifle rounds. Big deal. The fact is that White could fairly readily produced the same results with a lever-action deer rifle.

The article from the Silsbee Bee is less than compelling as well. First, "camaflouge"? Can the Bee not afford spell-checking software?
Then there is the claim that "the AK-47 shoots a .223 shell." Wrong, wrong, wrong. The AK-47, the actual Автомат Калашникова model of 1947 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as01-e.htm), fires 7.62x39mm Russian. There are variants of the basic design that are chambered for 5.56x45mm NATO (which is functionally almost identical to .223 Remington), but these are ipso facto not AK-47s. They are "AK derivatives." The "derivative" part is vital when talking about semi-auto-only variants, because автомат (avtomat) means "automatic (rifle)."

And then there's the damage done:

{Herrington} chose to get his gun and go to the home of the victims where he fired at least 28 shots at the victims, cars and homes in the area, reports show. {...} Neither victim was seriously injured. One was treated and released from the hospital and the other was treated and then taken into custody by Beaumont Police for outstanding warrants.

"At least 28" rounds fired, two people lightly injured. Color me underwhelmed at the destructive power of the "high-powered assault weapon."

So what was the point of all this again?
Oh, and, by the way, I corrected your homework for you on the other thread. It might be nice if you at least acknowledged the pile of mistakes you made in there.

[MichaelHarris]

10. that's

one funny post right there, hahahahaha

[Euromutt]

11. Refute it if you can

If not, have the dignity to shut the fuck up.

[MichaelHarris]

13. hahahahaha

refute what, the news?

[Euromutt]

17. You sure did pick an appropriate avatar

Refute that the article in the Virginian-Pilot did not contain several inaccuracies.

Refute that NIJ-rated level III body armor is supposed to stop a 7.62x39mmR FMJ round, whereas level IIIA armor is not intended to stop any rifle round.

Refute that car bodies won't stop 9mm Parabellum pistol rounds, and that therefore it should come as no surprise that they won't stop rifle rounds either.

Refute that a paper whose journalists and editors are unable to look up in a dictionary how to spell "camouflage" should not inspire confidence in a critical reader.

Refute that 28 rounds fired resulting in two casualties who are able to walk out of the ER within a few hours is hardly an example of massive lethality.

Hell, given the crappy quality of news reporting in this country (and, in fairness, lots of other places too), refuting the accuracy of news reports is like shooting fish in a barrel.

You know what? Now I think about it, it's entirely possible those "top officials" in the Chespeake PD were lying. By claiming that level III armor won't stop a 7.62x39mm round (which it generally should) they might be trying to convince potential opponents of the SWAT team or narcotics division not to buy anything heavier, that would actually defeat their armor.

[Euromutt]

21. Oh yes, and

Refute the fact that that laundry list of incidents you posted in your previous thread contained several instances of multiple reports referring to the same incident, a couple where the type of firearm was immaterial to the nature of the offense, and one instance where you cited the use of a gun that wasn't even an "assault weapon" in Canada in 2006 as being relevant to American crime statistics for this year.

[Hoopla Phil]

32. Willful ignorance must be bliss.

[rl6214]

14. Fact filled equals funny?

Now that's funny, sad but funny.

[Hoopla Phil]

31. You may find it funny but it is factually correct and puts the reality

of the poor reporting squarely out there for people concerned about the truth to see.

[Hoopla Phil]

30. Wow! Very good post! It is amazing how much reporters screw up all in

the name of getting a good story headline.

[gorfle]

15. They are not lying.

They are not lying. Many rifles will defeat body armor. The AK-47, which shoots 7.62x39, is not particularly powerful compared to many other popular rifle calibers. And cars are relatively easy to shoot through. Unless you hit the engine or a frame member, it's just some thin sheet metal, a bit of plastic, and maybe some fabric.

[423aaron]

16. Look at the pix again.

That is a Simi-Auto Romanian coppy of an AK 74.

Look at the Mags guys Definitely a 74 not a 47.

5.45x39 not 7.62x39

It is entirely possible that the cops did not know the difference.

The 5.45 round and the 5.56 round are similar in bullet diameter.

How many cops do you know that are gun guys?

Also +1 on it not being an "Assault Rifle" to be an Assault Rifle the rifle must be capable of select fire (full auto and semi auto).

If this rifle is select fire it was already illegal. As it would have been illegally converted.

Aaron

[Xela]

27. I agree, Romanian copy.

It's not a Norinco.

Good catch.

Xela

[Euromutt]

28. The mags don't prove anything

The Sovs developed those red bakelite magazines for the AKM as well. I do think you're right that it's a Romanian derivative with a "Dragunov" stock. But if that's the gun in question, it looks distinctly 7.62x39mm to me. Most of the Warsaw Pact never got round to converting to 5.45x39mm anyway, and Romania, being practically a Third World nation under Ceaucescu, would have been least likely to.

[423aaron]

38. Mag check

http://www.ak-47.us/Article_Detail.php?g=content1153191494
AK 74 mags

http://www.ak-47.us/Article_Detail.php?g=content1144095483
AK 47 mags

Generally the 47 mags have a steeper curvature and are made of steel.

The most common Bakelite mags in this country would be 5.45x39

[benEzra]

39. Agree that those mags are too straight to be 7.62x39mm.

See post #40, BTW. That is definitely a Romak 2 in 5.45x39mm.

[Euromutt]

41. Hmmm, looks like you're right

I stand corrected. I can tell military AKs apart, but those commercial variants are just too numerous.

[slackmaster]

19. It's not an "assault" rifle, it's just a rifle

And it's AK-47ness had nothing to do with much of anything.

[X_Digger]

22. AK-47'ness = ooga booga to the uninformed

For years, a russian firearm was the weapon of 'the bad guys' (tm). How many cold war movies showed a sniper with a dragunov, 'agents' with a makarov, or a uniformed soldier with an AK variant. All the bad guys in all the movies about Vietnam had Aks, all the russians in the James Bond movies...

Most people not familiar with firearms get their information from movies and tv- is it any wonder that the image of a semi-automatic clone of the same gun that bad guys used in movies for decades would be used to gin up a moral panic?

[Jackson1999]

23. Yes, it is misleading

It is not an "assault rifle" unless it can shoot full auto, which is unlikely. It may not even be an "assault weapon" as I can only count 2 "evil features".

What you need to do is just learn what an "assault rifle" and an "assault weapon" actually is.

[benEzra]

25. OK, here's a research assignment. Find three common centerfire rifle calibers

LESS powerful than 5.45x39mm, the caliber of the gun in the article you linked to. Pistol calibers don't count.

That's a centerfire .22 throwing a super-light 50-grain bullet at a relatively modest velocity for the caliber (3000 ft/sec). Energy at the muzzle is only 971 ft-lbs. Ooohs and aaahs about how "powerful" this gun is are like claiming a Trabant or a Smart FourTwo are "high powered race cars".

Don't take my word for it; look it up.

[Euromutt]

46. Just for a laugh

... I'll give it a shot (so to speak). I'm going by muzzle energy, so if you had a different criterium in mind, you may have different answers.

The obvious one to list is .30 Carbine.
Then there's .22 Hornet.
After that I draw a blank, though that's partly because I don't know what counts as "common."

[benEzra]

52. I was thinking of muzzle energy, and I can't think of three.

.30 carbine, definitely (and not coincidentally, also a low-powered "assault weapon" cartridge). .22 Hornet is a possibility, though I don't know that it would be considered common anymore. All else I can think of are either obsolete calibers or pistol cartridges.

The point being, that the ZOMG ULTRA POWERFUL!!!!!111 rifle being discussed is just about the least powerful centerfire rifle you can possibly buy.

[Pavulon]

26. Real simple. The safety catch will have 2 positions or 3.

looking at that it probably has two (cant see it, but does not look like the weapon issued by militaries). That means a semiautomatic rifle. 3 means "safe, full auto, semi" that means ak variant. Your article says semi auto, which means REPLICA ak-47.

[Hoopla Phil]

33. Based on the information given by the posters here, YES it is misleading.

[virginia mountainman]

34. MichaelHarris, you have been deliberately mislead, here is proof....

The VPC themselves, admit in their own documents, that they, for lack of a better term, are "preying" on YOUR, lack of knowledge, and understanding about guns...

But hey, don't take MY word for it, take THEIRS....

The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons—anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun—can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/awaconc.htm

See, they are banking on "the public's confusion".... that tells you something about them now don't it? To bad the they don't want to help you with the "Confusion"...

But I will...

First, that weapon shown in the photo...Has been BANNED for almost 20 years, it is made in China, by Norinco, I believe Bush SR banned those, the "Assault Weapon Ban" DID NOT BAN ANY OF THOSE RIFLES, or effect that rifle in ANYWAY!! It was banned well before 1994

The Reason?? Not the one YOU think, but because China was dumping them, cheaply on the American Market back in the late 1980's, along with SKS rifles, and the effect of CHEAP decent quality, semi automatic rifles, was taking a toll on DOMESTIC rifle makers.. All Norinco imports where banned, in America, they had some other guns, too, but now, you can go to CANADA, and buy a NEW NORINCO SKS, but not in the USA.

Why would you, if you where a deer hunter on a budget, buy a USED 3 or 4 hundred dollar lever action, or bolt action rifle to hunt with, when you could have a very nice, new, Semi Auto SKS for around $90. And NO, the SKS is not an Assault Rifle....I don't care what any dumbass says, the proof of MSM's dummassery in calling the 10 shot, semi auto SKS a "assault rifle" goes beyond the normal dummassery we have come to expect.

But anyway, I actully own several "Norinco" firearms, but mine are not rusty, a kave a couple that LOOKS like an AK, and a few that is, an SKS. Due to the bans, they are worth far more now, and will only increase in value. They are investments.

Now, to clear the confusion, VPC is banking on you having..

Here is a video, that will clear the confusion..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjM9fcEzSJ0

O, and your Welcome! It is not your fault that you "think" this way, you have been mislead, along with many others for years, you should be angry as hell that they did this too you.

[dairydog91]

37. Either they're lying, or their armor distributor shafted them...

SWAT wear level III or level IV vests, both of which contain ceramic plates that should be able to withstand at least a couple of direct hits from 7.62x39 ammunition. Level IV vests should sustain multiple hits by Armor-Piercing 7.62x39 ammunition. If their SWAT team members have vests that can't stop AK fire, then they've either purchased the wrong vests or they're being screwed over by their supplier.

[benEzra]

40. Definitely a Romak 2 in 5.45x39mm, and NOT an "assault weapon" under the Feinstein law.

The Romak 2 had a smooth muzzle with a welded on muzzle nut and no bayonet lug, and a wooden thumbhole stock reminiscent of the Dragunov stock. My guess would be early to mid 1990's import.


http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/model.htm#romak2

Here is the image from the OP's link:



And the "OMG it's SO POTENT" commentary was drivel. 5.45x39's are among the least powerful centerfire rifles you can buy in this country, and they will absolutely, positively NOT penetrate NIJ Level III body armor.

For comparison, here is the 7.62x39mm version, the Romak 1:



Note the different style magazine.

[Euromutt]

51. Hot damn, you're right - it's not an "assault weapon"!

It's just a semi-automatic rifle that accepts a detachable magazine; this rifle was purposely made to comply with the 1994 AWB!

[Tejas]

42. I see a trend here

For your 1st journalist job, you might consider hiring on with the Brady bunch, they don't have nor do they want a clue when it comes to realistic reporting on firearms either.

Send them links to your threads here, they'll probably hire you on the spot.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

43. You aren't lying you are just ignorant, there is a big difference.

[AtheistCrusader]

44. They lied or are stupid

if they told the reporter this:

"The AK-47 shoots a .223 shell"

It doesn't. It fires a 7.62mm x 39mm round. (not a 'shell' either &#$#@#!!! ) A .30 caliber round, which explains why it was able to perforate a car door and a vest. .223 has no trouble getting through either by itself, but will have problems doing both, because the first thing it hits will probably cause it to fragment, and it's wimpy enough as it is. The AR-15 fires .223 (standard, there are other options which aren't worth discussing here) the AK-47 fires a 'short' .30 caliber round.

It's not an assault RIFLE either, as this is a semi-automatic. It IS an assault WEAPON in the State of California.

Please stop mixing legal mumbo-jumbo with military nomenclature.

[Euromutt]

50. Careful there, you're mixing the two stories

We're dealing with one incident in Chesapeake, VA, that involved a 7.62x36mm Kalashnikov derivative, in which one cop was badly wounded when his car was shot up, and a kidnapping victim murdered.

Then there's a trailer park farce in Silsbee, TX in which some guy emptied a mag at the trailer of two guys who'd beaten him up a week earlier; in this instance, the rifle appears (from the photo) to have been a Romak 2 chambered in 5.45x39mm, and the local cops appear to have mistaken a 5.45 casing for a .223 Rem one.

There are Kalashnikov derivatives chambered for 5.56x45, incidentally (the WASR-3, for example), so it's a somewhat understandable mistake. The mistake wouldn't have been as glaring if the article had said "the rifle used in the shooting was chamber in .223," especially given that nothing referred to as an "AK-47" in the American media genuinely is an AK-47, and only rarely an AKM.

[AtheistCrusader]

54. Good point.

Though, actually the quote was "Monday, representatives from the TDCJ returned to the scene with other officers and found the AK-47 rifle with one shell in the chamber that he was using. The AK-47 shoots a .223 shell. "

If they had said "this AK-47" I might just shake my head and let it slide, but "The AK-47" is factually incorrect.

It's all very frustrating, why don't they just send in someone who knows something about these rifles to have a look at it, and provide the news with some FACTS?

[pipoman]

53. If you are what you say you are

you represent the embodiment of what is wrong with the media on this and many other issues. The "I don't care about the facts" or "I want to make the news, not report it" attitude in the MSM is why the MSM has been loosing their relevance for the past decade or so. The internet serves to keep the stories written by reporters like you from effecting my position on issues based on falsehoods.