Blacklisting NRA Is Pitching A Fit Over Gun Owner List

[MrBenchley]

Yup, the same idiotic bunch of racists who compiled a blacklist of just about everybody in America they didn't like, now wants it to be a felony for law enforcement and the public to keep an eye on which neurotics are toting guns around.

"TALLAHASSEE - The National Rifle Association has an enemies list. One way or another, you're probably on it.
But the likelihood is high that you, like me, belong to or support at least one of the 142 organizations that the NRA faults as "anti-gun."
The NRA's Florida arm is asking the Legislature for a law that would make a felon of anyone and everyone - private citizens as well as police or other government workers - who makes and keeps any list of privately owned firearms or their owners.
The bill (HB 155) provides for exceptions, such as the NRA's own membership lists, the state's list of people licensed to carry concealed weapons, and records pertaining to stolen guns - but for no more than 30 days after the weapon is recovered.
What's left? Mainly, to stop local police from keeping records of guns that make their way through pawn shops. Everything else that goes through a pawn shop goes, by law, into a state database in Tallahassee. Two years ago, however, the gun lobby cowed the Florida Department of Law Enforcement into erasing guns from that database after 48 hours. Now they're out to hobble local law enforcement as well. "

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/11/16/Columns/Gun_toters__you_can_r.shtml

By the way, note the thorough debunking the author gives the "Hitler and Castro wanted gun control" horseshit the RKBA crowd spouts at the drop of a hat.

[DoNotRefill]

1. that's FUNNY!!!!

"Historians whom I consulted scoff at this. According to Dr. Cristoph Strupp of the German Historical Institute in Washington, Hitler actually liberalized Germany's gun laws, except for Jews and other "enemies of the state." But, he added, it would be "basically naive" and "a-historical" to think that owning guns "would have made any difference in their fate."

"There was virtually no resistance in Germany not because there weren't guns but because there was no will to resist," explained Dr. Nathan Stolzfus, an associate professor of history at Florida State University. "The clear majority in Germany received Hitler as he presented himself. . . ." "

The operative clause there is "except for Jews and other "enemies of the state". Yup, Ole Adolph was for guns for all German people....at least those reliable enough to be in the Wehrmacht and SS...

I wonder what the Warsaw Ghetto uprising was all about? Could it be that some of the minorities weren't happy about being gassed? Go figure....

[MrBenchley]

2. What this guy said was absolutely true, in other words

"Yup, Ole Adolph was for guns for all German people...."
Yup, just like these asswipes, it was "gun rights" as a cover what was really meant......

"The so-called gun control bill enacted by the government is nothing but anti-self defense laws designed to disarm law abiding citizens. The right to own guns as guaranteed by the 2nd amendment to the United States Constitution must be protected. Gun ownership is NOT a privilege, it’s a CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHT!!! The Texas Knights work to completely restore the right of all law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms."

http://www.texaskkk.com/platform.htm


Who have guessed it...bigoted gun nuts? Well, pretty much everyone with a working brain cell would have guessed it. All they have to do is look at the NRA leadership.

[Liberal Classic]

3. Benchley, the article is incorrect, the NSDAP did not 'liberalize'

By the end of the Weimer period through the rise of Hitler's chancellory, Germany had instituted background checks throught the Waffen SS, waiting periods, licensing of all weapons and ammunition, registration with municipal police. By the end of the Nazi period, only pedegreed 'ayrans' were given permits to own any kind of weapon. I know that you like to respond with hostility to being corrected, but readers of this forum need to know that your assertion that the NSDAP 'liberalized' gun laws is untrue.

Silly goose, the Ku Kluck Klan do not believe in gun rights for minorities. :)

[MrBenchley]

5. Yeah, surrrrrrrrre....

Between you and the German Historical Institute, I think it's the German Historical Institute with the actual credibility.

"readers of this forum need to know that your assertion that the NSDAP 'liberalized' gun laws"
Again....it's not my assertion, but actual fact. Now go cry about another NRA lie going "poof" to someone who cares. Try these folks....I'm sure they'll get a BIG BIG laugh.

http://www.ghi-dc.org/

"the Ku Kluck Klan do not believe in gun rights for minorities."
And yet they're willing to swallow their bigotry long enough to pitch this "gun rights" crap in public. Shows how dishonest the whole movement actually is...and what it REALLY means.

[jhfenton]

8. The only bigotry I've seen in this forum...

is directed at the defenders of the RKBA. Unfortunately, hypocrisy is not limited to the right wing of the political spectrum.

[MrBenchley]

10. Gee, then you've closed your eyes to

what the RKBA crowd spouts with great enthusiasm at every opportunity.

"sig454 Posted: Nov 7 2003, 11:45 PM
Well, Negros kill more Americans every uear than the Total of Americans killed by Muslim in the last 10 years.
Every day PRO-DEATH libers kill more American babies than all ther Americans every killed by Muslims.
So, WTF, why the big deal about some towel heads ??? "

http://www.glocksunlocked.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=941&hl=racist

"sig454 Posted: Nov 7 2003, 11:58 PM
Wisconsin is the safest state in America because it has the lowest population of negros in America.
period.
no big mystery "

http://www.glocksunlocked.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=862&hl=negros

"Volponi Posted: Nov 9 2003, 02:04 AM
In conclusion, for those of you who had enough patience to read this far through, in homage to the ebonics thread, PLEASE shoot me if you ever see me at the "Y" in the 'hood' saying anything like this:
"Word up, dat guy sho do be havin one damn fine looking booty. I be wundrin if he be OK wit havin me pump muh ma fuckin junk all da way up in his manhole. Brace yourself foo', nahh dime sane? Be undastandin dis negroid-american languag, foo' "

http://www.glocksunlocked.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=968&hl=blacks

"hypocrisy is not limited to the right wing of the political spectrum"
Hahahahaahahha...no, its clear you RKBA "liberals" have it too.

[jhfenton]

15. "in this forum"

Apparently you still can't read.

[MrBenchley]

21. Those have all been posted in this forum

more than once...they represent the cream of thegunn nuts' "land of reason"

[Liberal Classic]

9. Of course the Kluckers are lying

They're agenda is one of racial superiority. Denying they believe in disarming minorities is part or their attempt to modernize their imagine. I wouldn't believe for one second the Knights of the Ku Kluck believe in a black man owning a gun. And neither should you.

"readers of this forum need to know that your assertion that the NSDAP 'liberalized' gun laws"

Again....it's not my assertion, but actual fact. Now go cry about another NRA lie going "poof" to someone who cares. Try these folks....I'm sure they'll get a BIG BIG laugh.

Since I seem to doubt your facts and you seem to doubt mine, perhaps we must agree to disagree. Please define 'liberalization' of gun laws. Perhaps we're not arguing over the same things.

I have to wonder, where in the German Historical Institute it claims that the NSDAP supported 'gun rights' for Jews. I sincerely doubt it will. Clearly the NSDAP did not support the liberalization of gun rights for Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, communists, any any others deemed as undesirable. Can you show a link from the German Historical Institute relevant to the discussion at hand? No reputable historian claims that the Nazis supported gun rights for Jews. It's clear that the Jews were systematically disarmed by the NSDAP.

I suggest reading some sources on Jewish oppression and resistance:

Memoirs of a Warsaw Ghetto Fighter and the Past Within Me (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1994) by Simha Rotem-Kazik

The Jewish Resistance in France, 1940-1944 (New York: Holocaust Library, 1970) by Anny Latour

These sources will clearly show to anyone who reads them that the NSDAP systematically disarmed Jews, communists, and other groups of people found as undesirable expressly for the purposes of politcal oppression. No where in the history books that I have ever read have the Nazis championed gun ownership for homosexuals, gypsies, or Jews. They believed in rights for Ayrans only! I believe that you mischaracterization of the goals of the NSDAP is insulting to the people lost to the Holocaust! The Nazis did not believe in gun rights for Jews! How preposterous!

[MrBenchley]

11. Gee, gun nuts lie?

Who'd a thunk it.?

Seems to me I've mentioned once or twice that this "gun rights" horseshit that folks like David Duke, Larry Pratt and the NRA are peddling is dishonest.

Next, somebody is liable to put forth a phony argument that the person from the German Historical Institute never made and dispute that.

[jhfenton]

17. I've seen nothing anywhere to compete

with the dishonesty of the anti-gun movement. The VPC and the Brady bunch and the Diane Feinstein gang will stoop at nothing to get the phony scary-looking semiautomatic rifle and full capacity magazine ban extended.

Check out www.awbansunset.com for the Truth.

[MrBenchley]

25. Then your eyes are closed

"Check out www.awbansunset.com"
For lunatic hysteria. Those nutcases can hardly wait to get those guns into their twitchy sweaty hands, can they?

[Kellanved]

13. Not true

The Nazi gun-law was a tool to disarm political opponents - so far you are correct This happened by excluding groups from German citizenship.

However for the average German citizen it was a liberalization: over the counter sale of long guns and ammo was allowed (no permit needed; no waiting period) ; registration stopped.
The SS part is hard to believe, as the Waffen-SS did not even exist at the time.

[Liberal Classic]

19. The SS with Himmler as head numbered ~50,000 by 1933

Night of the Long Knives was in June '34.

The National Socialists considered relaxing the weapons laws after Nazi thought was spread sufficiently throughout society, but it took longer than the Nazi expected to purge undesirable elements from society. All the same the police had total control over who would be allowed to hold a permit, and by the time the Citizenship Law and the Law for the Defense of German Blood and Honor were passed, Jews had no legal right to own weapons at all, even if pedigreed citizens could get permits with police permission.

[Kellanved]

20. Yes

The Waffen-SS did not exist in 1934. The SS itself is another matter.


The permit part applied only to handguns; and even there the rules didn't get stricter: the old gun-law from 1928 had introduced the permit-system.

[Liberal Classic]

22. I stand corrected

Getting them confused. Thanks for setting me straight on that.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that the Nazi era of Germany is not really a standard we should hold up for comparison. Whether or not pedigree ayrans could buy weapons and Jews could not really isn't the point I am trying to make. Even the relative differences between gun laws between the weak Weimar Republic and the Nazi nutter state is not really the issue. Nazi Germany is not a poster child for gun control any more than it is for gun rights. Just as wrong to point to it and say 'look they were right wing gun loons' as it is 'look they had gun control.' Both of these comparisons are wrong for any number of reasons not the least of which dropping flame bait.

[Kellanved]

24. I couldn't agree more

[jhfenton]

4. What a...

pantload!

Oh wait, that's your line.

Mr. Dyckman didn't thoroughy debunk anything -- other than the possibility that he had a brain -- by talking to two (probably anti-gun) historians.

It is critical that we avoid gun registration, either de jure or de facto. It is a necessary first step to confiscation (see California, England, Australia, etc.) That's why -- as I've said before -- no gun I own will ever be registered. It's just one more reason I love buying guns in private sales -- that and the good deals I can sometimes find.

[MrBenchley]

6. And my line is still absolutely apropos...

as this thread shows...

"Mr. Dyckman didn't thoroughy debunk anything -- other than the possibility that he had a brain -- by talking to two (probably anti-gun) historians."
Yeah, surrrrrrre.....and Wayne LaPierrre is Queen of the Faeries.

[jhfenton]

7. "Queen of the Faeries"

So Larry Pratt is a Russian Prince and Wayne LaPierre is Queen of the Faeries. I didn't realize that they were both royalty. Thanks for your thoughtful and intelligent response.

[MrBenchley]

12. All the response that was required.

Who can forget how licensing drivers and registering motor vehicles led to the government seizing all cars....

[jhfenton]

14. Show me where a government anywhere has seized all cars

and I'll concede your point. Licensing of drivers and registering motor vehicles is, historically, not a precedent to confiscation of cars. There are many examples of the registration of firearms serving as a precedent to confiscation.

If nothing else, the fact that nearly all Americans own cars and that cars are not fundamentally controversial, leaves me comfortable with carrying a drivers license. The two issues are not comparable -- as you know of course.

[CO Liberal]

16. Then Why Do Pro-Gunners Always Make Car-Gun Analogies?

Or gun-swimming pool analogies?

Or gun-kitchen knife analogies?

Or.....

[jhfenton]

18. Car-Gun Analogies

That's a reasonable question.

I agree that comparisons between cars and guns are never that compelling. But the analogies have some validity when we're talking about the degree of harm inflicted by the various tools at large in society. So you hear the statistic that we have more children nationwide under the age of 5 drown in five gallon water buckets than we have children under the age of 10 accidently shot by other children under the age of 10. Is it an intellectually compelling analogy? No, but it makes the point that people unreasonably obsess with and focus on the relatively rare accidental gun deaths among children. Most "children" killed with firearms are in the 16-23 year old range involved in high-risk gang activities.

When it comes to the likelihood of future governmental confiscation of firearms, water buckets and automobiles do not make compelling comparisons.

[MrBenchley]

23. Well, DUH!

"Licensing of drivers and registering motor vehicles is, historically, not a precedent to confiscation of cars. There are many examples of the registration of firearms serving as a precedent to confiscation."
And as we've seen, they're all lies....or ludicrous attempts by gun nuts trying to portray Australians as servile wretches under the boot heel of tyranny.

[hansberrym]

26. Has "debunking" joined that growing list of words that

also means its opposite?(As in double-speak or the Dialectic).


It is of no comfort at all to progressive/thinking/feeling persons that only those whom the fascists wished to oppress or kill were disarmed.




A list of double-speak words used by the anti's (Please add any
that I have overlooked)

Collective = individual
Revisionist = initial meaning
the state = the people
truth = lies
Debunking = supporting