I went to my first gun show today!

[proteus_lives]

And it was a lot of fun!

I posted a few weeks ago about my plans to go and some folks wanted a follow-up post. So here it is!

I picked up my dad this morning and we drove down to the fairgrounds, "You flew through that intersection! Hey, I looked!" The show was in a huge, surprisingly cool, warehouse/open yard area. It's primarily used for 4H purposes as I understand. We paid at the entrance and got our hands stamped. We were asked if we had any loaded firearms on us. (We did not)People who did had little plastic cuffs put on the weapons.

The event was laid out in familiar convention style. Rows of tables in the center with more elaborate booths in the outside square. I was impressed with the variety of goods available. Not just weapons, but pamphlets, instruction CDs, clothing, holsters and rigs of all types, ammo boxes, magazines, empty brass, self-defense booths with pepper spray, batons and saps. Knives galore, I wish I bought cash with me because they had tables of great knives for between $5-$12. (I am cash poor for the next couple of days, cable and eye-doctor bills.) Helmets and hats, camo gear, hunting equipment and target paper. I fell into the mode I often go into when I'm on "the floor" of sci-fi and comic conventions. Looking for deals, eying the price tags and acquiring a machine-like comparison process that I am unable to duplicate for other math-related tasks.

The make-up of the show was primarily White with Blacks and Latinos also. There were many families there with children and the elderly. I saw many women as both customers and sellers. The atmosphere had a pleasant weekend-outing energy. I saw no propaganda or political stuff beyond bumper-stickers and cartoons. Obama was a constant feature. He was used as a selling point. I saw on many signs stuff like "Get this "insert product here" before Obama does!" And there were many editorial cartoons taped to walls and the insides of display cases. The most negative thing I saw was this sign, "I'll keep my guns, money and freedom. You keep the 'Change'!" I saw no Confederate gear and I only saw one Nazi thing. A dagger in a display case with other knives. Most of the bumper-stickers and political stuff were pro-2nd Amendment quotes and statements.

My dad got several boxes of shells for his coach gun and a ankle holster. He wanted to make a firearm purchase but was unwilling to go through the waiting period. He wanted a .22LR Cobra Derringer, he wears a lot of vests and thought it would fit in the inside pocket of most of them. Apparently in the past, he would pay for a weapon, fill out the paperwork and take it home. But it seems like that isn't Kosher anymore. We went to many different booths but the story was the same. My dad wasn't willing to put down cash and not take his purchase with him. He blamed Obama and said, "If they outlaw gun shows, they'll just change form. You'll get Tupperware-style gun parties in people's homes and property." "It's not like it used to be huh?" he said to the booth operator. "That's the truth," the elderly gentleman replied.

All the classic weapons triggered the history buff in me. Lee-Enfield rifles, Sten guns, Gewehrs and the like. I handled a Tommy Gun and it was so cool. I had to resist the urge to yell out, "You dirty rat! You killed my brother!" I also wish I could have afforded a couple of nice .44's and .38's I saw. Shotguns were the most numerous weapons I saw along with pistols. Lots of rifles and semi-autos. My dad mooned over what looked to be a modified Barret rifle. I was more interested in the Taurus table.

All and all it was a fun outing and I had a nice time with my dad. I have only been to one but I'm so far unimpressed with the fears about gun shows. I'll go a few more in different places before I form a more concrete opinion. I'm glad I went.

[geckosfeet]

1. Holy christ on a stick.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. Why should we expect anything but a uninformed reactionary response from you?

[Sebass1271]

2. Good Luck!.. There are some sensitive members in here today

...

I'll just wait for avalanche

:popcorn:

[rockymountaindem]

3. Gun shows are lots of fun

There's always a certain element of right-wing fanatics there (particularly in my neck of the woods), but there are lots of cool old things to check out like helmets, uniforms, medals etc. It's better than a museum because you can pick them up and talk to the people who know all about them. The last one I went to, someone had brought an old WWII half-track they own.

[liberalmuse]

4. I went to a gun show once.

And bought a pretty knife. It was really disturbing seeing kids as young as 6 carrying shotguns around. Also, there was a lot of Nazi memorabilia. That alone ruined the entire experience. Guns and the fetishists who crave them creep me the fuck out.

On edit: I honestly couldn't stop myself from typing that last sentence. I have this revulsion towards people who are way into guns for some reason I can't fathom. I've handled, taken apart, cleaned, put together and have shot guns. I'm a pretty good shot, too, but for some reason I'm contemptuous of gun enthusiasts. I just can't shake the image of sad, scared men with tiny dicks.

[spin]

6. The image you mention is probably a figment of your imagination...

but if it makes you feel superior to say it and it boosts your ego, then enjoy doing so.

[murielm99]

7. I think for some people it is the craftsmanship.

My husband appreciates a well-crafted gun and a well-crafted car. It is not as though we can afford to collect either item!

He is a good shot, and I am getting better. We hunt, but it is not an obsession.

[movonne]

8. I think you are right...thank you

[Deadric Damodred]

9. It stands to reason that if one sterotype is true, then the others

must be as well. For instance, if you really believe that just because a man owns a gun that he must have a tiny penis, then it stands to reason that if a man owns a nice car, that he must also be compensating for his small penis. Do you own a nice car? If so, you better sell it and by the ugliest, most beat-up piece of crap you can find.......after all, if the women see you driving a nice car, they'll assume you have a tiny penis in the same way you assume men who own firearms have a tiny penis; but if you're driving a junker, they can't make that sterotype can they? Better get on that selling your car thing so they can't put two and two together.

[rl6214]

12. I just can't shake the image of sad, scared men with tiny dicks.

Well that didn't take long.

[old mark]

27. That's what I think of when I think of gun control types.....

How odd.

mark

[proteus_lives]

13. That's awfully judgmental.

I collect comic books, I make weekly purchases and I have a apt full of my collection. I have encyclopedic knowledge of some characters, comics, companies and art forms. Would I be a creepy fetishist to a person who only picks up an occasional Graphic Novel? What about a person who collects classic cars? Or a civil war re-actor? There lots of people who are heavily involved with their hobbies. Why judge them until you get to know them?

I've only been to one gun show too but I didn't see any Nazi or racist memorabilia. But I've only been to one, so I haven't formed a opinion yet. You should do the same.

Be careful of the stereotyping, it makes you seem simple-minded and fearful.

[friendly_iconoclast]

17. That's a remarkably sexist thing to say...

...considering +/- 30% of gun owners are women

[NewMoonTherian]

18. I'd encourage you to get to know more gun enthusiasts

personally. It's harder to stereotype real people than a boogerman from the nasty stories your friends tell.

I grew up in a household that held some pretty deep-seated prejudices, and as I got to know real people, I shed those ideas pretty quickly, as did my more prejudiced family members over time. Then again, you may revel in your views, and there's nothing wrong with that either. I will say that I think you're way off base in your assumptions though, and leave it at that.

[guardian]

30. So does buying a "pretty knife"

make you a "sad, scared man with a tiny dick"?????

I'm always amazed at how some people can be incredibly intolerant, bigoted, and rude...just because someone thinks differently than you. Or enjoys something that you don't enjoy. You and Carrie Prejean must be related.

[gorfle]

32. On kids and memorabilia and such.

I can understand where you are coming from. If you're not familiar with gun culture, I can see your revulsion.

On the military memorabilia. Yes, there are some folks selling and buying this stuff because they are neo-Nazis or otherwise have a hardon for Hitler. However, there are a lot of folks that do military reenacting and/or collecting, yes, even the German side. There are also large contingents of folks that reenact or collect Russian, British, Confederate, Union, or whatever side of just about any conflict you can imagine.

As for the kids carrying guns. My family has had firearms for at least four generations. So when I was a kid, it was nothing strange to see my father in the living room cleaning a firearm before or after a hunting trip, and of course, like any kid, I wanted to be like my father and I wanted to shoot and hunt, too. I think my Dad let me start shooting around age 8. Definitely I was already completely familiar with firearms and owned my own .22 rifle before I got into Scouting at 10-1/2. So it is not unusual for children to be involved with shooting with strict adult supervision.

I personally would be leery of allowing a six-year-old to carry any firearm, as I'd be afraid with their attention span it would get dropped or smacked into something and dinged up. BUT, if my child was a mature, well-behaved six year old I might very well let them carry an unloaded firearm for me at a gun show. I know that when I was a child I would have felt very proud to carry a firearm for my Dad in public.

As for the small dicks thing. I'm not sure where this meme comes from. I suppose where it comes from is that prior to the age of firearms the weak were at the mercy of the strong, and we all have these stereotypes of weak and strong people, i.e. Popeye and Bluto. I guess there is a perception that strong people have big dicks and weak people have little dicks, and only weak people would buy firearms to protect themselves from the strong. Maybe that is where it comes from, I don't know. In any case, per published data, I'm above average:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_penis_size#Erect_length

[madeline_con]

33. I know what you mean. It's hard to explain that particular group

"enthusiasts" who are creepy to those who don't get it.

It's not the craftsmanship admirers, collectors, experts, or average Joes. But there is this certain subgroup who have them becuase they're into that extremist militia crap. They can be spotted immediately. They're same type whose 3 year old attends cross burnings and is spouting anti-fillintheblank hate and wearing a God Hates Fags shirt to the "camp".

[X_Digger]

5. Glad you had a good time!

Told ya it wasn't the evil criminal trading ground / nazi / skinhead monthly meeting :)

[proteus_lives]

26. Thanks!

"Told ya it wasn't the evil criminal trading ground / nazi / skinhead monthly meeting"

They were meeting at the YMCA this weekend. ;-)

[Hoopla Phil]

10. So how long before you approached by the KKK? Maybe the Arian Nation

tried to recruit you and you did not realize it. Did you meet Randy Weaver there? I curious as these are the beliefs that many anti's believer goes on at the "gun showes".

[proteus_lives]

15. Couple of them but I had plans.

I mean, how many summers do I have to spend in a bunker in Idaho before I grow-up and get a real job?

Weaver still parking his Panzer out in the lot when I left.

I think most Antis would be bitterly disappointed if they actually went to a local show.

[Hoopla Phil]

16. LOL!

[rl6214]

11. The reason he may not have been able to pay and go

is that it may have been an out of state dealer. If it is an instate dealer you can take your purchase home immediately, if it is out of state, they must transfer it to an instate dealer and then to the buyer.

[proteus_lives]

14. Interesting point.

Thanks for the info.

:hi:

[Statistical]

20. There would be no reason why that would require a waiting period.

There must have been at least one instate dealer.

Sell gun
Transfer to instate dealer which is just paper work.
Instate dealer hands weapon to the buyer.

Takes all of about 5-10 minutes (that is just waiting for the "instant" background check to come back).

[Statistical]

19. What state was the gunshow in?

Interesting on the waiting period.
There is no federal laws that mandates waiting periods at gun shows.

I have bought semi-auto rifles, cases of ammo, and handguns with no waiting period.

[proteus_lives]

21. Indiana.

Waiting period, that's what they told my dad. Is that really unusual? I have to plead ignorance in this.

[Statistical]

22. Bizare.

Indiana has no waiting period either.

Was the gunshow near Illinois?

Only thing I can think of is a majority of dealers were from IL.

IL has waiting period.
Logically it shouldn't apply to sales outside IL but then again IL is pretty gun unfriendly so I could see them doing that.

[proteus_lives]

23. They might have been,

Tippecanoe County is only a hop, skip and a jump away from Illinois.

Other then that, you got me.

[burrfoot]

24. Sweet!

Hey proteus- glad you made it to a show, and I think it's great that you made it a family thing. I've always found that, as you said, there's a handful of "out there" fanatics at the shows, but that the vast majority are friendly and polite folks, often their with wives/kids.

I think you mentioned before that your dad has a CCW. If that's correct, I can't think of any reason they'd require a waiting period for any kind of gun. That is a little odd. Probably some law I'm just not aware of, though- doesn't sound like anything malicious or like they were trying to deny your dad a gun. If he doesn't have a CCW, though, that may be why the delay- in FL anyway it's 3 days on any handgun if you don't have a CCW.

You know what? If anti-gun folks spent any time at gun shows, they might realize that they've got a lot in common with the people who frequent them. But what are the odds.....

[proteus_lives]

25. It's a mystery to me.

My dad mentioned that he had a CCW but it didn't change anything. Maybe they were out of state dealers or there is some reg or law we missed. Either way it was still a fun day.

Yeah, the people at the gun show were no more a collection of oddballs then some of the sci-fi cons I go to! ;-)

[old mark]

28. The main problem I have with gun shows is

that I don't have any money to buy all the stuff I want. I have NEVER seen any type of racist/Neo Nazi/even fundamentalist stuff at any gun show, and I went to my first one about 35 years ago.
That "gun show loophole" is pure fabrication.

mark

[michreject]

29. Ssssssssssshhh!!!!

Don't bust the grabbers fantasy.

[old mark]

31. Right -

they are probably all typing with one hand right now......


:rofl:

mark:patriot:

[Xenotime]

35. Did you see any loophole trades going on?

[proteus_lives]

36. Define loophole please.

All the sales I saw looked legit.

[Statistical]

37. You know the usual

Guy loading a 6 pack of surface to air missiles into his truck.

Guy in prison uniform wearing handcuffs with chain sawed through buying submachine gun and cop killer bullets (I mean when you need to kill a cop you have to get "cop killers" normal bullets bounce rigbt off cops).

Guy buying cases of military assault rifles. Cash only. No paperwork.

Bunch of gang members hand a $100 to the cop to literally look the other way and buy uzi for a driveby while asking if they need hearing protection to fire it from inside a moving car.

You know the usual.

The stuff that happens everyday at gunshows.

Every anti knows that gunshows are giant unregulated open air arms bazaars.

[proteus_lives]

38. Well....

The SAMs weren't in 6-packs but they were two for one.

The guy wearing a mud-splattered prison uniform and followed by the distant baying of bloodhounds went straight for the Tommy Gun I mentioned in the OP. I was going to say something but I figured who was I to judge?

The cases of military assault rifles were cash-only but you had to super-swear that you weren't going to use them in a bad way.

$100 cop bribes? I wish, it's up to $500. Fucking recession.


Open air arms bazaar? Hah! The anti's should go to Yemen or Uganda or basically anyplace you can buy an AK-47 for $15 American.

[Statistical]

39. All in good fun but seriously

part of the problem with the "gunshow loophole" or the antis in general if they are very good at misleading.

Sometimes pro RKBA groups are direct to a fault.

Often Brady doesn't lie outright but they use half truths and terms like "unlicensed dealer = private citizen".
They talk about sales w/ no background check in a gunshow but don't explain that happens EVERYWHERE outside a gunshow.

I think many non gunowners come away with a view of gunshows that they are this magical law free zone where gangs, rapists, neo-nazi come together to buy military hardware in bulk and are run by dishonest mobsters unloading truckloads of illegal firearms onto the streets for use by felons.

That sadly is the one thing Brady is good at:
assault weapons
"confusing" semi-auto with machineguns.
armor piercing rounds (talking about Class II vest so any rifle round will pierce it)
high capacity magazines
gunshow loophole
30K violent gun deaths (forgetting to mention over half are suicides)
1 "child a day" dies everyday from guns (including children up to age 23 and who are convicted felons in gangs)

[proteus_lives]

40. I agree, misinformation is rampant when it comes to guns.

I'm not surprised by it, I had a conversation with my best friend yesterday about the gun show and she threw out many of the points you listed.

[TheWraith]

41. I have a Lee-Enfield type rifle, based off the Mark III design.

It's actually an Ishapore 2A1, manufactured 1967, but identical to an Enfield Mark 3 save for the fact that this one uses 7.62x51mm instead of the rarer and less powerful .303 British. It's a cool gun. I'm not really a bolt-action guy, but I got a good deal on it.

[proteus_lives]

42. Cool!

I love historical weaponry. I would love to own a Mauser C96. I also like swords and like, I have a small collection hanging on my walls. I once went to Toledo, Spain and their sword collections were amazing! Have you ever watched Spike's "The Deadliest Warrior" I love how they examine weapons and test them out.

[TheWraith]

43. I haven't watched that.

Swords are neat, but I've not had a lot of cash to drop on collecting things, so I have to be strictly practical about what's useful. My rifle is, a sword wouldn't be. The advantage to an antique rifle though, even a milsurp one, is that it'll gain value over time since I don't use it much. I've considered the possibility of eventually trading it for something else, like a comparably powerful semi-auto, but that's probably a ways in the future.

[Tejas]

44. on the "Nazi thing" you saw

Keep in mind that there are what's called "nazi things" and then there are "Nazi things" at gunshows. In some cases genuine Nazi memorabilia can be crazily valuable to certain collectors, some items priced higher than a nice SUV. Otherwise, around here, nazi things (lower case n) are the pamplets promoting this and that and you know what all else but we won't go there.

Anyways, in most cases collectors like Nazi things as a souveneir or "war trophy" because we whooped them in WWII. From silver cups to match holders to photos, that stuff is also collectable because a certain designer or artist might've had something to do with it. The historian side is extremely strong with collectors of Nazi stuff.

But keep in mind not everything you see is Nazi-origin, it is German Army and not meant to be viewed or construed as supremisist/etc/etc/etc or anything to do with Hitler either. Again, therein lies the "war trophy" aspect I mentioned above. Hopefully an actual collector of WWII German or Nazi memorabilia will chime in and explain it better.

And if you're curious, no, I don't collect Nazi or German stuff but I do have a fetish for cool Russian items. Nothing like a cute girlfriend wearing a ushanka in late November!

:)



ps: in before some anti claims possession of a $7,000 Nazi flag (documented as authentic) automatically makes you a white supremisist.

:rofl:

[Israfel4]

45. Hmmmm.........did some reading on wikipedia and found out

that before people associated the swastika symbol as "evil" it was primarily used for "good luck"!!!