Allentown police: Man used legal gun to fight off robbery attempt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

An Allentown man and a 17-year-old juvenile got more than they bargained for when they attempted to rob city resident Michael Dawes early Saturday morning, according to police.

Dawes, 38, of N. 13th Street, was smoking a cigarette near 13th and Union streets about 3:45 a.m. when the juvenile approached and asked for a dollar, said police Capt. Daryl Hendricks. Dawes said he didn't have a dollar and the youth moved away.

Moments later, Albert Torres Jr., 24, of 841 Tilghman St. approached Dawes and asked for marijuana, getting the same reply, Hendricks said. At that point, the two attacked Dawes, who pulled a registered handgun and started firing.

Dawes got off two shots, but the assailants, who quickly fled, were not hit, Hendricks said. When police arrived, Dawes spotted a car he'd seen lurking in the area before the incident. Police stopped the car, and Dawes identified the two people inside as those who tried to attack him.

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/police/all-5reversal.6944150jun28,0,3988574.story

[Vinnie From Indy]

1. LOL!

So, Michael is just hangin' out at 3:45 am smokin' a cig at 13th and Union and all this shit happens to him? Imagine that!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

2. Do you think he was there for some nefarious reason?

[Orrex]

4. Having been there, I can confirm that 13th and Union isn't quite a bastion of etiquette and courtesy

But that's a reflection on the location, rather than on the almost-victim.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

11. Clearly. These two guys demonstrated very little courtesy or etiquette.

[Orrex]

26. They probably use the wrong fork with their salads, too.

The brutes!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

43. Savages!

[Hoopla Phil]

39. Yep, blame the victim. That works so well in rape cases too.

[sharesunited]

3. This story reminds me very much of Bernhard Getz. Or Paul Kersey in Death Wish.

Mr. Dawes had every right to stand on that corner and smoke that cigarette.

But he is sooooo lucky he did not hit those guys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

5. The police had no problem with his actions.

[sharesunited]

6. That's a no-harm no-foul.

If the perps were dead or bleeding, the story might be very different.

And even without knowing anything about Mr. Dawes, we could just as easily be reading that he had killed his co-workers and himself with the same gun.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

7. Statistics prove your last statement ridiculous on it's face.

[sharesunited]

8. How impressed the victims of rampage shootings must be with those statistics.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. Anecdotes do not make good public policy. Glad you know it was ridiculous though.

[sharesunited]

10. Just today six dead in a Tennessee rampage. Gee, what are the odds?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

12. Since you asked, you stand very little chance of being the victim of a rampage shooting.

You can rest easy now.

[sharesunited]

14. How about a domestic dispute? What are your stats for that?

Two cops wounded today in that scenario.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/18/maryland.police.shot/index.html

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

16. Your chances of being killed in a domestic dispute are higher than in a rampage killing, still....

very low.

David

[sharesunited]

17. May we relegate them all to preventable by removing the primary cause of the problem?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

18. By all means remove the abusers and the rampage killers, they have no business in society.

No violent criminals do.

[sharesunited]

19. Too late. The dead have already died at the hands of the guilty.

Such A Tragedy, Carry On Dying.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. Maybe you could head up a Pre-Crime Court.

[sharesunited]

21. Pre-crime requires precognition. The only thing predictable is guns+ ammo = death.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

22. Again a patently false statement. 230 millions guns in the US, 30 thousand gun deaths.

I own over 12 firearms and ammo for them. None has ever been used to kill any person. Apparently things aren't so predictable.

David

[sharesunited]

23. I know that game. It's called Russian roulette.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

25. You aren't very good with statistics and odds are you.

[sharesunited]

27. You know how we got up to that many guns in this country?

Because more guns are always better.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

28. More guns in the hands of criminals is a terrible idea.

More guns in the hands of the law abiding is almost always a good thing.

[sharesunited]

29. What happens to your twelve Dave?

Planning to live forever? Invincible to burglary?

And how did you turn into someone who loves them so much?

Those twelve are part of a pool patiently waiting to fall into the wrong hands.

You're not grasping the big picture.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

30. I've owned guns for over 30 years never lost one or had one stolen. I don't love any of them.

In regards to the means with which I secure my firearms, that's my business. I'll either sell them or give them to my heirs when I feel the time is right.

David

[sharesunited]

33. What about your sanity and your spirits?

How are you feeling?

Job giving you the blues?

Everyone is at risk for the strength of the thread by which your mind dangles.

If you wanted or thought you need twelve, I would submit that might be evidence of something wrong there.

Latent, but ready to erupt.

When you feel the time is "right."

[eqfan592]

35. Wanting to have multiple types of guns because you enjoy shooting them..

..and thinking that you "need" them are two entirely different things. That you can't recognize the difference brings into question your rationality.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

36. That's just your irrational fear speaking.

I feel fine thanks. Job is great, I like what I do, I'm good at it, I've been promoted very quickly and the pay is good. In regards to your clinical thoughts, several of those guns were given to me. Although when I used to hunt I did need quite a few. You thinking that someone possessing 12 firearms is indicative of some serious problem is very telling about your own mental health, go see someone.

[oneshooter]

51. Gee I wonder what

shareunited would think of my modest collection. Many of them MAY of been used to take a life as most of them are military weapons, ranging from Brown Bess muskets to M1 Garands. Just at 200 separate pieces, including handguns, rifles and shotguns.
I have been collecting, restoring, and shooting these weapons for over 40 years.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[eqfan592]

32. Let's compare guns to cars

250 million cars in the US. 43000 vehicle related deaths. Average of 1 death per 5700 cars (approximately)

250 million guns in the US (this estimate is likely on the low end right now). 30,000 gun related deaths. Average of 1 death per 8300 guns in the US.

Sounds to me like your enemy for "saving" people is cars. Not to mention a fair portion of the 30,000 gun related deaths were the result of criminal on criminal activity and self defense. The same can not be said as much for vehicle related deaths.

[sharesunited]

38. Guns are designed to conveniently kill and injure.

That makes them dangerous by intention.

Automobile deaths are accidental, unless you count deliberate misuse.

Gun deaths are intentional unless you count childish curiosity and adult ineptitude.

Every gunholding hand can turn into the wrong hand in an instant, without warning.

And like Gollum obsessed with his precious ring, guns have the same seductive power upon those who feel they are central to their well being.

Happiness Is A Warm Gun. John Lennon.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. So John Lennon was like Gollum. Got it.

[sharesunited]

44. John Lennon was making fun of you. And he got shot. So Ironic, Now Carry On Dying.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

46. Did you seriously fall for that one? Time for you to go to bed.

I will carry on dying but it won't be from a gun though. It will be from years of inhaling toxic smoke, having hypertension and high cholesterol. That's what going to kill me, no irrational fear here.

David

[sharesunited]

47. I certainly hope that is NOT your fate. Get mad at those cigs and chips.

Carry On Dying isn't directed at you Dave.

It's what I hear when 2A advocates cluck their disapproval about the latest horror caused by their favorite menace to society.

Such A Tragedy, they all agree, but guns are not to blame. Now Carry On Dying.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

52. It will be my fate. That's no big deal. Gotta die from something.

If only my hypertension and high cholesterol could be blamed on diet and lack of exercise. Unfortunately heredity and my choice of professions will likely be the death of me.

David

[rrneck]

50. I disagree.

Every gunholding hand can turn into the wrong hand in an instant, without warning.

People don't just snap without warning. If someone is ill, there are many opportunities to help them, and by extension those around them. The tragedy is that those opportunities get ignored.

guns have the same seductive power upon those who feel they are central to their well being

The percieved power, one might say cultural power, is just as much a two edged sword as the actual function of the firearm itself. The efficacy of that power and how it is used depends on the person wielding it.

Your quiet courtesy elevates the tone of this forum. Thanks.

[eqfan592]

54. Sharesunited, you are the only person I know that is truly obsessed with guns.

You have an unreasonable hatred for them it seems, and you despise those who don't agree with your extremely narrow and unrealistic view point. I have to wonder what would be your next obsession in the name of "safety" if you were to get your way. Knives would be my guess. And swords as well. Followed by blunt objects perhaps. Eventually hedge trimmers will be deemed too dangerous and possessing too much "convenient kill power" and will be banned. Government agencies would have to be established to handle lawn care for all the lawns in the US, and anybody found possessing such dangerous items as a kitchen knife or lawn mower would be brutally punished.

Believe it or not, that IS the road you are trying to walk down. Thankfully, there are very few who share your view, and the rest of us see the total irrationality of what you are promoting.

[PavePusher]

55. Cars are designed to...

...safely transport people from one location to another. The fact that they kill and injure so many while ostensibly being used for another purpose makes them seem horribly defective. Perhaps your analogy sucks.

[AtheistCrusader]

49. Well shit, all mine must be broken.

[eqfan592]

13. Just today, over 4000 uses of firearms in self defense....

...but their lives are worth less than the 6 dead in Tennessee, because sharesunited says so!

[sharesunited]

15. What bodily orafice of the NRA did you pull that one out of?

[eqfan592]

24. The Clinton Justice Department.

They estimated that guns were used approx 1.5 million times per year in self defense. This averages to a little over 4000 times a day.

Yep, Crazy ol' Bill Clinton. He just loved him some NRA.

[sharesunited]

31. That must include self-defense against attackers exercising their RKBA, then.

Which makes the justification for it a little circular, don't you think?

[eqfan592]

34. Nope, it sure doesn't. Because in order for it to be circular...

...you'd have to argue that those attackers would not have otherwise attacked had we not had legal access to firearms for law abiding citizens. In fact, you'd also have to argue that the ONLY reason they attacked was because they had a gun in order for it to be circular justification.

[sharesunited]

37. Your raw stat is response to attacks, some significant portion are obviously guns.

What would the stat look like if guns were not available to initiate those attacks?

This is what the NRA likes to do. Posit the deterrent effect of guns against guns.

Which leaves more guns as the only way we can choose, because they want it that way.

Because they love and worship guns.

It is just a religious cult which I refuse to join.

[eqfan592]

53. The only reason you think it's circular reasoning...

...is because you feel it's actually a rational idea to rid the world of guns. And it would HAVE to be the world, because if it was just the US then all you'd see is gun smuggling going right along with drugs and you'd just succeed in creating another huge black market item.

The simple truth you refuse to accept is that banning firearms world wide is NOT a realistic proposition. Even banning them in the US is not a realistic proposition. You can SAY it is all you want, but that doesn't make it true. You need to get out of the fairy tale and learn to deal with reality, and the reality is that the law abiding citizens of this nation shouldn't be robbed of their most effective means of self defense. Such an act is immoral at best, and criminal at worst.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

45. The overwhelming majority of criminals attackers don't have a RKBA.

That makes your reasoning a little circular don't you think?

[Hoopla Phil]

41. LOL! Thank you. I'm glad someone can keep accurate records of these things.

[AtheistCrusader]

48. Wrong.

Discharging a firearm inside city limits is a crime by itself. You better have a damn good reason to do so. (he did)

[Hoopla Phil]

40. Why?

[spin]

56. k&R (n/t)