USA Today: More seek concealed weapons permits

[RamboLiberal]

Gun owners are packing heat in record numbers, fearful of stricter gun control under the Obama administration and higher crime in a sour economy.

Some states and counties report a surge in applications for concealed weapons permits since the November election. All states but Illinois and Wisconsin allow concealed weapons, but requirements differ.

Applications already have hit a record this year in Clay County, Mo., where the sheriff's office received 888 through June, compared with 863 in all of last year, says Sheriff Bob Boydston. The office recently hired two part-time workers to deal with the rush.

In the past, applicants tended to be middle-aged men, he says, but recent applicants include "grandmothers, older folks, young women, young men."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-08-03-guns_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

[onehandle]

1. Wimps. nt

[inkool]

2. Why do you say that? n/t

[onehandle]

4. The United States is safer than it has ever been. Generally gets safer every year.

This is about the scary black man in the White House.

And what deterrent is a concealed weapon?

Wear your gun out in the open.

[gorfle]

9. Guns should not be carried as deterrents.

Guns should not be carried by civilians as "deterrents". Guns should only be produced when danger is imminent and the need to shoot someone is imminent. Open carry paints you as a target and can unnecessarily cause escalation by fools who feel the need to challenge someone with a weapon to see if they mean it or not.

[gorfle]

10. And strangely...

The United States is safer than it has ever been. Generally gets safer every year.

And strangely, there are more and more firearms and more and more people carrying them and states that allow it.

I wonder if there is a relationship?

[onehandle]

11. No. We are becoming more civilized.

A teabagger in Texas gunning up has little to do with anything outside of their own little mind.

[gorfle]

14. I agree.

We are becoming more civilized.

I agree. And there are more firearms, more people own them, and more people are carrying concealed, and more states are allowing it.

Coincidence?

[onehandle]

21. Yes. nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

24. We must live in different countries

The US is certainly not becoming more civilized.

[inkool]

12. So they are not wimps but raciests? Or maybe both?

If one where to open carry would they cease to be a wimp and/or raciest.

In PA getting a license to carry firearm (LTCF) is useful for things beyond concealed carry. This include open carry in a motor vehicle and open carry in the city of Philadelphia.

[JonQ]

16. Oh, does this mean any non-white with a gun

prior to 2009 was likewise a racist, terrified of white people in washington?

Also the crime rate has been going down as gun ownership goes up. How does this argue against gun ownership?

And finally the deterrent is that the criminal doesn't know who has a weapon, merely that the odds of bumping in to a citizen carrying one goes up every year. So it makes his chosen profession all the more dangerous and less profitable. Hopefully convincing some to give up, and forcefully removing the slow learners.

[onehandle]

20. Where did I argue against gun ownership? nt

[onehandle]

19. .

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

22. Good point, it's safer ever year despite more and more armed people on the street.

[spin]

55. Could there possibly be a correlation? (n/t)

[Endangered Specie]

26. "the US is safer"... the gun control lobby would have you think otherwsie.

[Tim01]

29. Pretty far reach to drag racism into this. Maybe you are the racist. nt

[onehandle]

36. Ooh... You got me.

Nobody judges Obama by the color of his skin.

Gun sales are up because now is just a Great time to buy guns.

Come down to Georgia and read a few bumper stickers.

[Tim01]

38. No, gun sales because he and his whole admin are openly hostile toward gun rights.

Nobody gives a fuck if it is a black man who says he wants to ban guns. There is a long list of his quotes that make him clearly hostile toward gun rights.And his staff too.

The only one who cares that he is a black gun grabber is you.

[Howzit]

30. So the US is getting safer DESPITE the increasing number of guns "on the street"?

Go figure.

[onehandle]

35. Yes. Despite. nt

[Howzit]

39. That means the number of guns "on the street" is not a significant factor in crime.

[onehandle]

40. No, that is a significant factor in crime.

But other, stronger factors are changing the dynamics of America and the world.

[rl6214]

31. It's not about the "black man" in the White House

It's about the MAN in the White House. Color has nothing to do with it.

[onehandle]

37. LOL! DU cracks me up. nt

[spin]

53. It's a deterrent in the fact...

that bad guys have no idea who might be carrying a firearm. It just could be some little old lady with one in her purse, or some old fart with a bad limp and a cane. It might be the Rambo type fellow wearing camouflage or it just might be the up scale businessman in the one thousand dollar suit.

You just can never tell.

Make a mistake and misjudge someone and it might just ruin your day. Why take the chance.

You can always look for a weapon if it's carried openly. You take your chances when it's concealed.

edited to add last sentence

[SteveM]

61. So, more guns DO NOT equal more crime. Thanks...

The "more guns equal more crime" bumper strip has been industriously promoted by the gun-controllers, even in the face of evidence which shows quite a different story. No doubt, there are those who fear a black man in the White House, just as there were a lot of Jim Crow politicians in the South who feared "armed Negroes" (hence the gun-control legislation common in the South before the 1960s). But I wonder how many of the "new" guns are purchased by folks on the political left. I have inquired of both the GOA and the Shooting Sports Foundation as to the political break down of recent gun purchases. Haven't heard back as yet.

Concealed weapons are for the protection of the individual wearing one, not a deterrent for a social problem. This could change if crims and thugs start getting wasted in increasing numbers, and word gets out that a substantial proportion of the seemingly unarmed public is in fact packing. We will see. As for wearing your gun, I would think such an action would attract attention from a band of thugs who wish to chance over-powering the gun-wearer in order to get the gun. I do not oppose legislation allowing the practice, but I'm not sure I would wear one in the open.

[brendan120678]

3. Yep...concealed carry is for wimps.

Real men open carry.


:hide:

[benEzra]

8. Well, considering I carry a S&W Ladysmith...concealed...

I don't really give a flying flip what macho types think other "real men" do; I have absolutely no desire to sit around drinking and watching football, either. I tore up my "Man Card" a long time ago, for those who keep track of such nonsense.

My wife also obtained a carry license, and she makes no pretense of being a "real man" either. I don't think most women with CHL's do.

[spin]

54. Nice weapon. Revolver or semi-auto?

By the way, I know some guys who carry pink knifes. Very popular in the knife crowd.



I carry a black Izula as an everyday carry knife, I like it so much I might just order a pink one. (Easier to find if I drop it in the woods.)

[benEzra]

60. Semiauto 9mm:

[yost69]

18. Open carry just gives

the BG a heads up as to what he will be faced with.

Which he will react accordingly.

Instead of walking up to you and saying give me your watch, he will have his firearm already pulled and aiming at your head when he asks for what he wants, if he doesn't just shoot you first then take your stuff.

I think open carry is a bad idea as there is no element of surprise like concealed carry has with it.

[Bonhomme Richard]

5. A cop I know in a mid size VA city said.........

they get about 40 request a week. He thought that was crazy.

[iverglas]

6. maybe somebody could do some exit polls

As they walk out with their shiny new permits, ask them whom they voted for, for President.

And then you could all ask yourselves why you give a flying fuck what they're doing.


Mind you ... apparently polls done a while into Nixon's presidency made it plain that he was never elected, since nobody voted for him ...

[DrCory]

7. Of What Possible Relevance...

Would their political orientation be?

[iverglas]

13. do you spend a lot of time pondering what right-wing assholes do

in every aspect of their lives? Or just this one?

[DrCory]

15. Who Is A "Right-Wing Asshole"? N/T

[rl6214]

32. You are saying that it's only right wing assholes

That are getting the concealed carry permits?

[iverglas]

41. nope, I've never said that

I've always said there are stupid people, too. We call them "dupes".

So actually, yes, I should have been more thorough.

And true, one might be concerned about stupid people, whom it might be possible to sway over to the side of goodness and reason. Evidence so far suggests not, though.

[DrCory]

59. If They Still Do Not Agree With You...

After attempts to "sway over to the side of goodness and reason", do they cease being dupes and become full-fledged right wing assholes?

[DrCory]

33. Who Are These "Right-Wing" Assholes You Speak Of?

Why won't you answer the question? Curious, indeed.

[iverglas]

42. "Why won't you answer the question?"

Probably because I was sleeping.

Or because you asked it in the same post where you demanded to know why I wouldn't answer it.

:shrug:


edit - oh, what the hell - who are the right-wing assholes I speak of?

Uh, the ones I was speaking of. Are you this unable to follow breadcrumbs?

[DrCory]

46. See Post #15

"Or because you asked it in the same post where you demanded to know why I wouldn't answer it."

I repeat, see post #15

"Uh, the ones I was speaking of. Are you this unable to follow breadcrumbs?"

Are you this unable to be specific? Are you being intentionally vague? If so, why?

I ask again, who are the right-wing assholes you speak of?

[iverglas]

47. I saw post 15

Post 15 says:

Who Is A "Right-Wing Asshole"? N/T

I figured you were probably able to name a couple for yourself. Shall we start with George W. Bush?

Your second question was a different question altogether. I still don't know why you'd ask it. The thread of the discussion here seems rather easy to follow.

[DrCory]

49. Whose Mouth Is Stuffed With Mealies?

You are making noticeable effort not to answer the question directly.

Why is that?

"Your second question was a different question altogether. I still don't know why you'd ask it. The thread of the discussion here seems rather easy to follow."

What is this? I think it's called dodging.

Things are often not as they seem, which is why I asked.

Awaiting an answer still. Will you provide it?

[iverglas]

50. you have my sympathy for your problem

Don't know what it is, but you obviously have one, so my sympathy.

The thread is about a run on permits to carry guns.

Gun owners are packing heat in record numbers, fearful of stricter gun control under the Obama administration and higher crime in a sour economy.

People who are fearful of stricter gun control are either right-wing assholes or dupes.

People who decide they should be carrying guns around in public because of "higher crime" are either right-wing assholes or dupes.

I was referring mainly to the right-wing assholes when I suggested exit polls; but of course the dupes would show up too.

I don't know how this could actually have been unclear to you.

In fact, I know with an absolute certainty that it wasn't.

[DrCory]

58. Does Your Characterization Pertain to All...

Who hold concealed weapons permits?

[JonQ]

17. Rights should be denied based on where you fall on the political spectrum

acceptable citizens will have full rights, ones that are out of favor politically (at the moment) will have fewer rights.

At least that's what some people would like to see.

[iverglas]

43. "Rights should be denied based on where you fall on the political spectrum"

What a strange thing to say. Only you know why you would say it. Maybe not even you know.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

23. Surely you wouldn't find that sample large enough to make a correlation.

[iverglas]

44. Sample?

Poll 'em all.

I think the results would be pretty definitive.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

51. Okay Dorothy, put your red slippers on and make that happen.

[Tim01]

25. BLOOD IN THE STREETS! BLOOD IN THE STREETS! Or, I guess not. nt

[Endangered Specie]

27. Reminds me, I should get off my butt and get mine too.

[proteus_lives]

28. Do it!

It's worth the bucks and the wait. :thumbsup:

[Endangered Specie]

48. Whats holding me up is my *hopeful* relocation.

when (if) I get a job.

If the interstate CCW bill had passed it would have been no problem.

[proteus_lives]

52. We'll get it passed at a later date.

The anti's have been running out of steam. It's becoming more clear that their fear and ignorance won't win.

[Statistical]

34. If nothing else think of it as a non-partisan NRA.

The number of CCW permits are known by elected officials.

A constant increasing number of CCW permits issued indicates that RKBA is taken seriously by constituents.

Some people don't like to join NRA (best way IMHO to lobby govt on RKBA issues) so think of this as a non-partisan NRA.

If number of CCW double then elected officials have to take notice of that.

[iverglas]

45. ah, whom to trust?

The world is so full of a number of imposters, er, posters.

Endangered Specie

Wed Aug-04-04 08:50 PM

Response to Original message

26. My stance:

Anyone looking to have a gun Needs to take (and pay for) a safety course and training course, and must pass. A psycholigical or polygraph test would also be in order. Also any gun purchase will have a minumum 10 day waiting period.

Certain guns will be banned in all forms for civilian use:
-Semi-auto shotguns (pump action ok, sawed off illegal)
-SMG, Assault rifle and MG, unless permanently put in semi-auto mode, -use of large magazines prohibited (>20 rnds or so)
-Guns which are designed to conceal fingerprints, blood spatter and things of that sort (if they exist).
-Scopes are to be very highly regulated, if not banned altogether
-Any gun firing a .50 caliber bullet or higher.

Any criminal record = No guns, serious offenses get a lifetime ban from owning guns. Commit a crime= all guns confinscated.

You still on board with yourself there?


edited to add missing link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x76306

[TPaine7]

57. "The world is so full of a number of imposters"

Let's revise that horrible prose:

"DU has a serious imposter, er, poster"

True. One... er, poster at this site can't keep her positions straight throughout an entire day, never mind {possibly or allegedly} changing positions over a FIVE YEAR PERIOD:

Here's a post pointing out your pathetic inconsistency from Wed Jun-17-09 01:58 PM to Wed Jun-17-09 04:41 PM (less than three hours apart):

73. For those of you who don’t already know iverglas,

Edited on Thu Jun-18-09 07:39 AM by TPaine7
I thought I'd help with the introductions:

Individual has obligation -- "moral" and, in civilized societies, legal -- to exercise whatever reasonable option is available, to avoid an assault, before choosing to use force...

Civilized, isn't it? Highly evolved. Refined. Doubtless iverglas is a fine example of what we should all strive to be.

Compare from yesterday (or so):

And no, I wouldn't rule out grabbing the person trying to make off with the purse from my shopping cart. ... And I wouldn't have ruled out beating up the person who did it, if I'd found him/her, frankly, but I'd recognize I was committing a crime ...

Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

One "principle" of gun control and other pseudo pacifist BS is that it's always for the other guy. She can rule out violence for us in standing our ground in our own homes. That is perfectly proper, civilized, and evolved. Her defending her purse in public? Now that's different.

Your home. Her purse. Can you see the difference? Can you tell why one is worth defending with force and the other is not?

Sadly, many gun control advocates are like that. Your life, your children, your husband or wife, and your property are in one category--theirs in another. That is why, for instance, Mayor Bloomberg can wonder--with his bullet-proof limo and 24 hr armed detail--why anyone would want a gun. "Guns kill people." Gasp.

Debating hypocrites is embarrassing sometimes; it feels like boxing a paraplegic.

Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=230532&mesg_id=230923


And it's not an aberration by any means; here's another example:

TPaine7 Sun Jan-11-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #45
53. "I don't judge people or their actions on the basis of newspaper reports."

I have no idea. I don't judge people or their actions on the basis of newspaper reports. I have no idea whether the report is accurate and complete, or she is telling the truth.

6. looks like a cowardly asshole to me


If I observed someone beating someone about the head with a bottle, I'm pretty sure I'd grab the nearest object and smack him/her, or simply grab something and pull, without even thinking twice.

Taking the time to go out to a vehicle and get a gun ... the victim could have been dead by then, while the big brave rescuer was busy getting his fetish object, and making sure he didn't break a fingernail.

Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x196259#196288

Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=196856&mesg_id=196940

To attempt to brush these inconsistencies off (as you did) is one thing; to then rebuke another poster for a possible position change over a FIVE YEAR PERIOD is, ..., well, iverglas.

If you had a sense of shame, iverglas, you would be much more persuasive. Ditto for integrity, decency, proportion,...

[Hoopla Phil]

56. My wife recently expressed interest in getting her CHL. Until she found

a 3 month back log on the classes. Bummer that she lost interest in it.