GUNS IN THE NEWS--November 25, 2003

[MrBenchley]

As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current for the Monday thread, stories should have been originally posted to the 'Net on Saturday, Sunday, or Monday. (This allows for the fact than many people are off-line over the weekend, allowing the Monday thread to be a weekend summary.) On all other days of the week, stories should have been originally within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board.
2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories are welcome in this thread, as well as gun-related editorials, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to stories or articles from a few years back that support your position.
3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) or intentionally pro-gun or pro-control sites (such as the NRA's or Handgun Control, Inc.) are not considered reliable sources by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link from a more mainstream source, such as a general-circulation newspaper or magazine site.
4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.
6 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.
7 - Please direct your comments to the story, rather than attacking the person posting the story or any person responding to the story. In accordance with DU rules, any messages that appear to be personal attacks against another DU-er will be reported to the moderators.

[MrBenchley]

1. Authorities investigate murder-suicide near Charlestown (WV)

Another family made safer by guns...

"NEAR CHARLESTOWN, WV NOVEMBER 24 - Authorities in Charlestown are still trying to find out why a man shot his sister and then turned the gun on himself.

The murder suicide happened Sunday afternoon in a quiet neighborhood near Charlestown. Police said 23-year-old David Mendez shot and killed his 20-year-old sister Alicia in the backyard of their home on the 200 block of Packet Drive."

[StClone]

2. Keep up the good work MrBenchley.

"If America is so great why do we have to be armed to survive in it?" asks student in my local high school.

[Romulus]

3. not a question of *have/need*

it's a question of having the *right*

[StClone]

4. So which militia do you

Have well organized in your hood?

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

17. Larry Pratt? Too frigging funny for words!

And WHAT a front page for THIS right wing cesspool....

"The United States of America, once the bastion of Liberty and leading proponent of Christian culture, is rapidly devolving into a totalitarian feudalistic state characterized by the following class structure -

The political elite :
obsessed with lust for power and wealth; deliberately ignorant of the fact that they occupy their office only at the pleasure of the King of Kings and solely to serve His purpose; characterized by arrogance, perversion, greed, and avarice. (blah blah blah)

Gospel Plow seeks to reawaken the remnant - the Christian freeman - to his heritage and his responsibilities.

Dedicated to arming and training the remnant in America, we here at Gospel Plow firmly declare along with the founders of this supposedly Christian nation that there is "No King but Christ!" "

http://www.frii.com/~gosplow/

Great, the home page for an American version of the Taliban. Doesn't the RKBA crowd ever read anything sane people read?

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[a2birdcage]

20. How is that the American version of the Taliban?

"What the center's smear campaign comes down to is this: Larry once attended an informational meeting about the federal government's killing of Sammy and Vicki Weaver. Among the other people who attended the meeting were leaders of racist organizations, and the meeting was organized by a racist.

In other words, Larry must be guilty by association. Even though no one denies that Pratt told the racists at the meeting that he rejected their views. In addition, Pratt was reported to have spoken at rallies that were attended by people in racist groups. What is Pratt supposed to do, post guards at every speech he makes to keep out anyone who may be a racist? Even by this high standard, Pratt has done pretty well."

[MrBenchley]

22. Who the hell are you trying to kid?

"Gospel Plow seeks to reawaken the remnant - the Christian freeman - to his heritage and his responsibilities.
Dedicated to arming and training the remnant in America, we here at Gospel Plow firmly declare along with the founders of this supposedly Christian nation that there is "No King but Christ!" "
What a pantload.

"Larry once attended an informational meeting about the federal government's killing of Sammy and Vicki Weaver. "
Oh, he did more than that...he helped organize it and spoke...

It's too funny for words...you go ahead and try to pretend that somebody turns up at an Aryan Nation rally AND becomes the head of the racist "English First" group AND becomes a key part of the Pat Buchanan for president group by accident.

" In addition, Pratt was reported to have spoken at rallies that were attended by people in racist groups. "
Reported by who? Answer: sane people.

[a2birdcage]

35. You make me laugh Bench!

Bench said, "Great, the home page for an American version of the Taliban. Doesn't the RKBA crowd ever read anything sane people read?"

I replied by asking hime how is that the American version of the Taliban and this is what he said.

"Gospel Plow seeks to reawaken the remnant - the Christian freeman - to his heritage and his responsibilities.
Dedicated to arming and training the remnant in America, we here at Gospel Plow firmly declare along with the founders of this supposedly Christian nation that there is "No King but Christ!" "

What a pantload.

Nothing Taliban about that.

"Larry once attended an informational meeting about the federal government's killing of Sammy and Vicki Weaver. "

Oh, he did more than that...he helped organize it and spoke...

Hmmm. Nothing Taliban about that either.

" In addition, Pratt was reported to have spoken at rallies that were attended by people in racist groups. "

Reported by who? Answer: sane people.

Still no signs of a Taliban relation. Larry is actually on the record for speaking out against the racist who attend his rallies. How convient for you to leave that out. I'll give you credit for one thing though.......................you can spin like nobody else I know. Hey, being as Ted Kennedy is an drunk driving alcoholic/killer I guess that make you, I and ever other democrat the same. Guilt by association right Bench. Nice logic.

[MrBenchley]

37. Who are you trying to kid?

"Gospel Plow seeks to reawaken the remnant - the Christian freeman - to his heritage and his responsibilities.
Dedicated to arming and training the remnant in America, we here at Gospel Plow firmly declare along with the founders of this supposedly Christian nation that there is "No King but Christ!" "

Great source, birdcage. But excuse the fuck out of me if I oppose your theocracy-loving ugly chums.

[a2birdcage]

57. You're making process.

"Great source, birdcage. But excuse the fuck out of me if I oppose your theocracy-loving ugly chums."

For once you didn't refer to him as a racist. Just because a racist comes to one of your rallies doesn't make you a racist if you organized the rally. That would be same thing as saying, "Two neo-nazis showed up at the Metallica concert, Metallica must be racist."

Oh and by the way......................you're excused. Hahahahah!

[MrBenchley]

61. I'm making sense; you're making none

Don't you guys ever read anything sane people read?

GospelPlow....what cesspool did you dredge that out of?

[DoNotRefill]

65. Just like the "army of one"....

I'm a militia of one. Hey, if it works for the army, it should work for me, right? ;-)

[Wickerman]

66. to ask if you are well regulated seems, well

perhaps too personal...

[DoNotRefill]

67. Having read about 10% of the laws that apply to me as a citizen....

I'd say I'm bloody well OVER-regulated.

[MrBenchley]

5. America leads the civilized world in

gun violence....the result of having a corrupt industry set public policy.

[madddog]

21. no

it's allowing repeat violent offenders back into society after serving slap on the wrist prison sentences. Most people who commit gun crime have a history of similar crimes on their record. Of course.

Guns are merely a tool for those people who have decided to prey on society as a career...it may make life easier for them, as long as their victims are unarmed...but it certainly isn't the reason we have "gun violence". We've had knife violence, sword violence, bolo violence, whatever kind of weapon people can figure out how to make violence for thousands of years.

[MrBenchley]

23. What a pantload.

We got a higher percentage of our citizenry in prison than Red China. But the RKBA crowd would rather we double that than do anything to stop the flow of guns to criminals and lunatics.

"Guns are merely a tool for those people who have decided to prey on society as a career."
And a marvelous profit center for those supplyinng those guns....and a sacred fetish object for others.

"We've had knife violence, sword violence, bolo violence, whatever kind of weapon people can figure out how to make violence for thousands of years. "
Yeah, and yet somehow bolos don't seem to be a major problem in many countries....even Argentina.

[slackmaster]

24. If you think life is better in the PRC

Perhaps you should move there.

[MrBenchley]

25. Gee, slack...

"slackmaster
38. It's the Big Lie strategy"

"slackmaster
58. Nice try but it's still based on a major LIE"

"slackmaster
65. If I may be so bold as to speak for the entire "RKBA crowd"
We aren't saying they are lying."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=118&topic_id=20875&mesg_id=20875

[slackmaster]

41. Non-sequitur

What are you trying to say, MrBenchley?

Have you tried following the link in your own post? What does the root post of that thread have to do with anything I've ever written here?

[MrBenchley]

45. Just an indicator of your character

as expressed by your own words...lest anyone reading this wonder why I don't bother to respond to most of your posts.


"slackmaster
38. It's the Big Lie strategy"

"slackmaster
58. Nice try but it's still based on a major LIE"

"slackmaster
65. If I may be so bold as to speak for the entire "RKBA crowd"
We aren't saying they are lying."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=118&topic_id=20875&mesg_id=20875

[slackmaster]

48. You keep posting a link to your OWN POST

What is your point, MrBenchley?

Spell it out so that even I can understand it.

[MrBenchley]

49. Yeah slack, that's why I'm quoting YOU

[slackmaster]

51. Try following your own link

I get a posting screen, as if I was going to reply to the original post in the thread.

:shrug:

What do YOU think it goes to?

[MrBenchley]

52. Let's try this one...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=20875&mesg_id=20875

[MrBenchley]

53. Goes to just what it says

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=20875&mesg_id=20875

[slackmaster]

58. It goes to YOUR POST which we have all read before

What is your point, other than spamming this message board?

[MrBenchley]

62. And on that thread we see you

Screaming "Liar! Liar!" then pretending you did no such thing....all within 30 posts...

Which makes my point quite clearly....

[madddog]

27. just because

we have a lot of people in prison doesn't mean more people shouldn't be there, or stay longer. Here's the tip of the iceberg, from the Bureau of Justice Statistics:

Of the 845 assailants identified in the killing of law enforcement officers from
1991-2000 --

almost half had a prior conviction
almost one-fifth were on probation or parole at the time

This is only the cop killers...you can find equally impressive stats for overall gun homicides, which, not surprisingly, tend overwhelmingly to be committed by young males engaged in other criminal activity like drug trafficking and/or gang related stuff, and who have a police record. I also saw a stat there that said 82% of gun murder victims had a prior criminal record.

[MrBenchley]

30. Good thing the gun industry is fighting so hard

to keep loopholes like the gun show loophole open, eh?

[slackmaster]

36. Cite please

Why would the gun industry, which makes and sells new guns, give a rat's rear end about the secondary market in USED firearms?

That's what the GSL is all about - Unregulated sales of USED guns by private individuals.

[MrBenchley]

38. Who the hell are you trying to kid, slack?

[slackmaster]

40. I'm not trying to kid anyone, just asking for substantiation of your claim

Do you have it or don't you?

[MrBenchley]

43. Yeah, I got it right here....

"slackmaster
38. It's the Big Lie strategy"

"slackmaster
58. Nice try but it's still based on a major LIE"

"slackmaster
65. If I may be so bold as to speak for the entire "RKBA crowd"
We aren't saying they are lying."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=118&topic_id=20875&mesg_id=20875

Who engineered the gun show loophole into the Brady Bill...or has pushed to keep all the bills that would close it bottled up in committee? The corrupt gun industry, that's who.

[slackmaster]

46. Nonsense

Who engineered the gun show loophole into the Brady Bill...

What draft(s) of the Brady Bill made any effort to address private-party transfers?

[Spoonman]

32. Pantload is right,

And so is Maddog.
Ever been to China, well I have!
The death penalty is handed down like candy at Halloween!
You so much as steal a bucket of raw crude oil from a leaking well head, and it is considered a "crime against the people", for which punishment various from time in a labor camp to death.

[MrBenchley]

33. Gee....

And that's what you guys want here? No thanks..

[Spoonman]

42. Gee...

Tell us how good it is in China again

[MrBenchley]

44. Gee, spoon...

Considering I never said it was good there, that would be diffiicult.

But then I'm used to the RKBA crowd's daily dishonesty....

[Spoonman]

47. Gee Benchley

If you've never been there then how can you comment on it, but then again, we face that type anti-RKBA crowd dishonesty daily.

[MrBenchley]

50. So in other words, your post was a pantload, as usual....

"If you've never been there then how can you comment on it"
Wow, RKBA "logic": with that kind of brainpower no wonder you think Mary Rosh is a REAL scientist.

"we face that type anti-RKBA crowd dishonesty daily."
Yeah, spoon, that's why I cut and paste your own words, and you're reduced to claiming I said things I never did. Now hand us another BIG laugh.

[Spoonman]

8. Good Work?

To use the work of another, from whom I sure I have permission.

"Some members of DU scour news articles across the internet to come up with the juciest, most tragic examples of firearms used in an irresponsible and/or criminal manner, and here we have an example of when their callousness and lack of compassion really show through. What they FAIL to realize is that the articles they publish contain the tragic stories of PEOPLE with feelings and families and friends"
"Yet, they have absolutely no regard for those feelings, after all, their driving motivation is to paint these victims as examples of why the RKBA should be restricted and to push their anti-Democratic agenda."

"They don't give a shit of the human toll of their ideas. They are looking for shock value only. They care not one iota of how tragedies like this can be averted."

- Brian
AKA: Superfly

[MrBenchley]

10. And to answer that...

"What they FAIL to realize is that the articles they publish contain the tragic stories of PEOPLE with feelings and families and friends"
On the contrary...,..we do recognize what tragedies these are, and we wish to hold the corrupt industry that facilitates them responsible. On the other hand, the RKBA crowd puts worship of their fetish above ALL else.

"They care not one iota of how tragedies like this can be averted."
Too TOO sick to be funny...which group is fighting to keep every gun law loophole gaping wide open? Which group is fighting to put unlimited assault weapons on the street? Which group is fighting to let neurotics carry concealed weapons around? It isn't the gun control group.

And for that matter, which side of the argument posts horseshit like this with clockwork regularity?

"Bought an AK variant last night
I went with my buddie to pick up an AK. He got a pre ban Maddi with 2 stocks, 4 30 round mags, and 6 boxes of ammo for $450. No papers to sign.... it was from the newspaper."

"Need mags?
if so, let me know."

"I'm in the market for an AK variant myself. With all the cheap surplus ammo out there, you can't beat them as plinkers."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=22847&mesg_id=22847

"n fact the greedy widow Grunow has only been able to force people to pay $820,000 so far($300,000 from Mckray, $275,000 from the pawnshop, and $245,000 from the School District) yet the greedy widow wants $24 million from Valor, the $1.2 million she might have been able to squeeze out, had she not gone after the $24million from them, wasn't enough for her and her piece of shit lawyer!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=24007&mesg_id=24007&page=

"Beretta being sued over dumbass kids ( always check the chamber stupid!)"

"This is really another question what kind of child. An educated one, or an ignorant one? They're going to attempt to say that it should be an indicator EVEN to the ignorant."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=24303

"Remember the AK my friend bought? Well we went out shooting that night and he tried to shoot me with it. I grabbed the gun and took it from him. I turned his fancy AK against him and shot him."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=23850

Boy, the concern for the "human toll" just drips from those posts, don't it?

[MrBenchley]

26. A bit more RKBA concern for the "human toll"

"slackmaster
9. He tried to shoot himself and missed?
Poor kid can't get anything right."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=10507#10679

[BullDozer]

59. and the rest of the story

"n fact the greedy widow Grunow has only been able to force people to pay $820,000 so far($300,000 from Mckray, $275,000 from the pawnshop, and $245,000 from the School District) yet the greedy widow wants $24 million from Valor, the $1.2 million she might have been able to squeeze out, had she not gone after the $24million from them, wasn't enough for her and her piece of shit lawyer!"

Keep in mind "Pam Grunow turned down an offer of $200,000(from Valor) in March 2002 to settle her lawsuit without going to trial.

The settlement offer was rejected because it didn't even cover the expenses to that point in preparing for the lawsuit, Larson said. During the trial in October, Montgomery told the jury he was seeking a jury verdict of $75 million."

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:5EuMGb4baYQJ:www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/news/grunow24.html+grunow+%24200,000+settlement&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

That's rich she settles with;

Person the gun was stolen from for $300,000
The School Board for $245,000
The pawn shop that sold the gun for $275,00

and rejects a $200,000 settlement offer from the distributor for a chance to hit the jackpot for $75 million.

Tell us again how she's not greedy.

[iverglas]

34. how interesting

You respond to a post to *Benchley*, referring to and questioning what was said to *Benchley*, by saying, among other things:

"They don't give a shit of the human toll of their ideas. They are looking for shock value only. They care not one iota of how tragedies like this can be averted."

Given the context of your post, and given the other material in your post, e.g.:

"Some members of DU scour news articles across the internet ..."

... would I be correct in assuming that the characterization of "them" that I quoted above at least includes Benchley?

If you plan to tell me that it does not, you'll need to explain why you posted it in response to a post about what Benchley does, and referred to and questioned someone else's characterization of what Benchley does, and then offered a different characterization of what someone does.

Even if you don't plan to tell me that it does not include Benchley, you're obviously not going to be able to claim that it does not include *someone* here who "scour<s> news articles across the internet ...".

So ultimately, you seem to need to explain how allegations that DU posters "don't give a shit of the human toll of their ideas", "care not one iota of how tragedies like this can be averted" and "have absolutely no regard for those feelings", and that "their driving motivation is ... to push their anti-Democratic agenda", do not constitute personal attacks.

But listen, I'm not anal about personal attacks. My only concern is that when someone says something vile about someone else, s/he be able to substantiate the allegation. Gonna do it?

.

[MrBenchley]

39. You will notice that

I had no problem producing examples of what I claimed...

And you will notice the utter lack of other members of this bunch bitching about those people disregarding the human toll.

Of course, those of us who have noticed the regular and monotonous bitching because "tragedies like this" are noted at all in public might be excused for being somewhat cynical about this sudden regard for the feelings of family members and friends of gunshot victims. Especially since on another thread not long ago there was a concerted effort by a couple of these folks to slander a "greedy widow" appealing in a lawsuit where a gun distributor was found partially liable by a jury.

[beevul]

6. Deer kill up slightly from ’02 (WI)

Nearly 645,000 hunters bought licenses to participate in the 2003 season. The number of licenses sold rebounded 4.2 percent from a year ago, the first hunting season after chronic wasting disease was discovered in wild deer near Mount Horeb. The always-fatal brain disease had never before been found east of the Mississippi River.

The DNR estimates 1.4 million whitetail deer roam the fields and woods — about 100,000 more than a year ago. The agency hopes 280,000 to 300,000 deer are killed during the season.

The DNR attributed poor opening-weekend numbers to the weather. Bahti said he spent opening day working in central Marinette County. “Overall, it certainly ranks weather-wise as one of the worst weekends I’ve ever worked,” Bahti said.


http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/news/archive/local_13375780.shtml


Hunting in decline....:eyes:

[MrBenchley]

14. Too TOO funny....

From the same story...

"William Mundt, 33, of West Bend was fatally shot late Sunday by another hunter in southwest Sheboygan County, sheriff’s officials said.
Mundt was shot in the abdomen with a shotgun by a 41-year-old hunter from another party but both men knew each other, Lawhern said.
Sheboygan County Sheriff’s Capt. Dave Adams said the accident happened after hunting hours when a hunter mistook a pair of eyes as those belonging to a deer. Mundt was not wearing blaze orange clothing, Adams said. The incident remained under investigation.
In the second fatality in Grant County, Gerald Bierman, 67, of Janesville died Sunday after he was shot in the hip while hunting with relatives near Lancaster, sheriff’s deputies said.
Lawhern said Bierman was shot by a hunting companion who fired five or six rounds at a running deer while both men participated in a deer drive. "

Guess those details were omitted due to the RKBA crowd's high concern for the human toll....

[beevul]

55. I guess....

"Guess those details were omitted due to the RKBA crowd's high concern for the human toll...."

I guess they were brought up due to "the grabber crowd's high concern for the human toll...."


"Some members of DU scour news articles across the internet to come up with the juciest, most tragic examples of firearms used in an irresponsible and/or criminal manner, and here we have an example of when their callousness and lack of compassion really show through."
"What they FAIL to realize is that the articles they publish contain the tragic stories of PEOPLE with feelings and families and friends ".
" Yet, they have absolutely no regard for those feelings, after all, their driving motivation is to paint these victims as examples of why the RKBA should be restricted and to push their anti-Democratic agenda."


I think that pretty much covers it.

[MrBenchley]

56. Too too funny...

"What they FAIL to realize is that the articles they publish contain the tragic stories of PEOPLE with feelings and families and friends "
Gee, do you think those folks have been comforted by the news that the number of deer killed are up slightly?

This is the lamest tactic the RKBA crowd has pulled since I've been here...but it would be so much more believable if they hadn't spent so much time gloating about people getting shot..or trying to keep stories about people getting shot from being posted at all.

[beevul]

60. denial ?

" Yet, they have absolutely no regard for those feelings, after all, their driving motivation is to paint these victims as examples of why the RKBA should be restricted and to push their anti-Democratic agenda."

Do you deny doing what is accurately described in the above quote?

Painting these victims as examples of why the RKBA should be restricted and to push their anti-Democratic agenda. Do you honestly deny doing that?

[MrBenchley]

63. Yeah, that's the only way to describe your posts...

Not to mention the hilarious fiction that somehow opposing the Republican agenda on the bogus gun rights issue is somehow "antiDemocratic".

But hey, go on pretending that the only problem with guns is that there aren't enough assault weapons around....it points up what a dishonest pile of crap the RKBA position is..

[MrBenchley]

7. 50-count firearms case, child-murder trial delayed (CA)

"Judge Jennifer Detjen set Feb. 9 to hear motions and to determine a new trial date for Madera businessman Issa "Zak" Zacharia and co-defendant Andrea Quintero.
Zacharia, 51, pleaded not guilty in July to 49 felonies and one misdemeanor alleged in the grand jury indictment. It alleged that Zacharia imported into California, possessed and sold illegal weapons.
State investigators and Madera police twice raided Zak's on West Howard Road in 2002. In June of that year, Detjen signed a search warrant after the state Department of Justice alleged that AR-15 rifles undercover agents linked to Zak's were "contraband."
Agents again raided Zak's in October 2002. This was allegedly to seize records including purchase orders. The June 2003 indictment listed 44 guns, including two AK-47-type assault rifles."

http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/7802550p-8692641c.html

[beevul]

9. Hirko case likened to Ruby Ridge

"ALLENTOWN -- A state police document compared the deadly 1992 Ruby Ridge siege to the 1997 drug raid in which Bethlehem police killed John Hirko Jr., a trooper noted Monday in the civil trial about Hirko's death."

"State police investigated the 1997 raid and Trooper Edgardo Colon testified that a document he prepared contained the phrase "Ruby Ridge East." Colon said he doesn't know who wrote the phrase or who tried to erase it from the document."

"The document Colon was asked about is a diagram of the interior of Hirko's rental home and it includes drawings of what police claim transpired. After Colon unfolded the document, Karoly asked Colon if it contained the phrase, "Ruby Ridge East." "

""That is inaccurate, sir," Colon responded. "

"But after Karoly told Colon to take a closer look, Colon said, "Oh, that's what it says." "


http://www.pennlive.com/news/expresstimes/pa/index.ssf?/base/news-8/1069754813297780.xml

Edited for link....its early.....

[MrBenchley]

11. Jury recommends death for man convicted in Waffle House murders (FL)

"The man convicted of killing two people in a cramped freezer of a Davie Waffle House moved a step closer to execution Monday, after preventing his lawyers from pleading for his life.
A Broward Circuit Court jury voted 9-3 to recommend death over life in prison for Gerhard "Chip" Hojan, 28. Last month the same jury found him guilty on nine counts, including first-degree murder, kidnapping and armed robbery, for the March 2002 crime.
Waitress Christina De La Rosa, 17, and cook Willy Absolu, 29, were each shot twice and died. Another waitress, Barbara Nunn, was shot in the head but survived to identify Hojan in court."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-cwaffle25nov25,0,4355601.story?coll=sfla-news-broward

[MrBenchley]

12. Shots Fired at Muni Bus (CA)

"Bullets hit a San Francisco Muni bus Monday afternoon, apparently involving students from rival high schools.
Police say someone fired shots at the number 9 bus at the intersection of Potrero and 22nd around 4pm. No one was hurt. But the shooter remained on the loose."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/kpix/20031125/lo_kpix/8456

[MrBenchley]

13. Shot Officer Speaks Publicly About Ordeal (OH)

"A man wanted on a murder charge who allegedly shot an area police officer over the weekend was arraigned Monday.
Meanwhile, Aurora police Officer Josh Daugherty spoke publicly for the first time since Saturday's shooting, and said he expects to be back in uniform this week.
Daugherty and officers from Lawrenceburg, Ind., apprehended Thomas Tracy, who's wanted in connection with an Indianapolis-area murder, WLWT Eyewitness News 5 reported. Tracy is being held on $5 million bond in Dearborn County."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031125/lo_wlwt/1892384

[MrBenchley]

16. Cantina Robbery Turns Violent (TX)

"A late Monday night robbery at a northeast Houston cantina turned violent after robbers opened fire on the owner.
Police are searching for four men who allegedly held up patrons at the El Diamante Cantina Monday night..
The owner showed up as the robbers tried to get away from the cantina. The robbers fired several shots at this pickup truck, injuring him. He was transported to Ben Taub Hospital and listed in critical condition.
Sherrouse said another person inside the cantina was also pistol whipped. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=320&ncid=320&e=1&u=/ibsys/20031125/lo_kprc/1892883

[MrBenchley]

18. Man Drives Car Three Blocks, Crashes After Being Shot (FL)

"A man was shot to death in Fort Lauderdale neighborhood Tuesday morning, according to police.
The unidentified victim was rushed to Broward General Medical Center with three gunshot wounds, but was later pronounced dead. He actually drove his car three blocks to Southwest 7th Street and 31st Avenue where he eventually crashed. A neighbor, Angela Harvey, heard the noise and rushed out to help. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031125/lo_wplg/1893423

[MrBenchley]

28. Metairie Homicide Victims Indentified (LA)

"Three people were shot to death inside a Jefferson Parish apartment early Sunday morning.
The male victims are Jason Delatte, 21, and Jason Woodward, 25. The female vicitm is identified as Tina Judeh, 17, of Metairie. Judeh was a senior at Grace King high school. The fourth victim is hospitalized at Charity. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=378&ncid=378&e=2&u=/ibsys/20031124/lo_wdsu/1891314

[madddog]

29. here you go:

"Investigators said they are still looking for a motive, but suspect that the killings may have been drug-related." ya ThINK?

[MrBenchley]

31. 12-Year-Old Walking In Park Finds Dead Body (FL)

"Homicide investigators are trying identify a woman whose dead body was found in an Eastside park early Tuesday by a 12-year-old boy.
"She was laying on her side and blood was coming on the cement, and she had blood on her shirt," Kenneth Palmore Jr. said. "I said, 'Hey, that looks like a dead lady.'"
His dad called police to the scene at 1325 East 21st Street.
While police told Channel 4's Jennifer Waugh that it's early in their investigation and they don't have many facts, it appears the woman was shot in the head. Crime scene investigators are paying particular attention to a commercial trash receptacle near the park. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=422&ncid=422&e=2&u=/ibsys/20031125/lo_wjxt/1893470

[MrBenchley]

54. Man Shot and Killed at SF Gas Station

"San Francisco police were searching for two gunmen who shot and killed a man at a gas station Tuesday morning.
The gunfire broke out on Silver and San Bruno Ave. around 10am. The victim's name was not released, but he was described as a black man in his 20s. He died at the scene."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/kpix/20031125/lo_kpix/8463

[MrBenchley]

64. Man Convicted in Weathersby Shooting (CA)

"PASADENA, Calif. - A reputed gang member was convicted of attempted murder Tuesday in connection with a drive-by shooting that wounded Cincinnati Bengals cornerback Dennis Weathersby.
Juan Serna, 26, of Baldwin Park, was found guilty by a jury of trying to murder Weathersby and a second man. Serna also was convicted of two counts of shooting from a motor vehicle and a count of being a felon in possession of a firearm.
Serna faces multiple life terms at his sentencing, scheduled for Dec. 17."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031126/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_weathersby_shot_1