I survived concealed carry class

[doc03]

without loosing my temper or shooting anyone today. There were 12 in the class and I guess at least 9 were anti-Obama. It was surprising it seemed most didn't like Bush* much better. It all went well until we were finished except for one remark the instructor made. The instructor was showing us how to check a gun to be sure it was unloaded. He said to make sure you never point the gun at anyone so he pointed it to the ceiling and made the remark Obama may be flying over in his plane, that got a good laugh. Then at the end of the class the instructor encouraged us to join the NRA. He said he is convinced Obama will try and take our guns away and that's why we need to be trained in their use. Then he went off on a rant about the Obama Administration being all Marxist. He then told us about hearing on Glenn Beck about one of Obama's czars wanting to take the freedom of the press from us so all we would hear is MSNBC. Then he said another one of his czars supported death squads somewhere in South America. There were three that never got into the conversation me and another couple. I bit my tongue and held my temper, now all I need to do is survive a couple hours on the range later this week.

[proud patriot]

1. Congratulations

[create.peace]

2. who sponsored the class, the nra or county/state?nt

[doc03]

4. NRA, the instructor is also a local Teabag leader n/t

[create.peace]

6. too bad there isn't any alternative...

to say that about pointing up is unconscionable...

[Laelth]

3. Glad to hear you didn't shoot anyone.

Some of us were worried about you yesterday. Personally, I couldn't afford to bail you out.

:toast:

:dem:

-Laelth

[Richard D]

5. I'm sure someone in the Secret Service . . .

. . . would appreciate a video or recording of such a "class".

[proteus_lives]

58. Good god.

You going to encourage him to inform on his neighbors next? :eyes:

[Xenotime]

98. Agreed.

[MercutioATC]

7. Ok, so YOU didn't shoot anybody.

How many people did your gun shoot on its own?


I haven't gotten around to my CCW class yet, but I've heard similar feedback from friends who have. It's unfortunate that becomes part of it, but it serves as a good lesson. Trust is easily lost and takes a long time to regain. Democrats HAVE scared a lot of gun owners in the past and they're not going to see the fact that Obama hasn't taken everybody's guns as proof that things have changed.

Hopefully, education and time will remove a lot of the politics from things like firearm safety and certification classes.

[doc03]

17. As long as we have people such as Nancy Pelosi around

we will have a hard time convincing many.

[MercutioATC]

38. Oh, I know.

The "education" of which I speak is for the loons on BOTH sides of the issue.

...and people like Pelosi, who has both a fringe view AND a vested interest in pandering to those with similar views may never benefit.

Perhaps, however, they'll be replaced by clearer heads.

[Kingofalldems]

8. These gun people--What comes first, the nuttiness or the gun?

[michreject]

15. Idiot gun grabber by a long way

[RagAss]

16. The fear.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

19. After all there are no criminals walking free to harm innocent citizens.

[RagAss]

31. Exactly. The need to protect.

Nobody gets a carry permit to commit a crime.

[armyowalgreens]

25. I'm sure you drive a car. Does that make you a car person?

Being a responsible gun owner does not mean you are a "gun person".

[Kingofalldems]

32. I don't threaten people and make nutty statements

while discussing car ownership.

[Pangolin2]

37. Gun owners are just about the last group who can be wholesale insulted with the 'nut'

appellation. I don't think 'fag nut' would play very well around here.

[Xenotime]

99. Yes it does. Cars are for transportation. Guns are for death.

[Pangolin2]

36. The Bill of Rights comes first. Whoever opposes them comes last.

...

[Posteritatis]

9. How was the class itself?

A lot of things like that would be a lot easier to deal with if people didn't use them as pulpits. Ugh.

[doc03]

23. I liked the class, I think I picked up a couple good

pointers on shooting a pistol better, I am anxious to try it out at the range. Other than their political views the instructors were not bad people just brainwashed by Fox Noise.

[Pavulon]

30. Lots of good stuff on youtube. Covering grip, stance, etc.

finding a good range and shooting at least once a month is important, and maybe a good instructor if you want to learn more.

What are you going to carry, out of curiosity.

[doc03]

35. I have a Springfield XDM in .40 n/t

[Pavulon]

39. Nice, quality firearm.

I tool that class years ago and saw some pretty wacky carry guns of the el cheapo 32 auto make. Same stupid politics aimed at clintons. To each his own, but I like a quality firearm. Regards.

[Statistical]

45. Nice choice.

The original XD in 9mm was my wife's choice for first firearm. The grip safety sold her and the Glock she initially liked based on looks only was too wide and too square of a grip angle to hold well.

I have been thinking about getting an XD(M) but the "fear" has driven prices up so much it makes more sense to wait a year. Then again I likely don't need another firearm and some people on DU think citizens should be limited to need alone.

I am sure you will do great at the range.

[aikoaiko]

48. XDM is down to 565 now by me.

Someday.......

[Statistical]

67. Yeah guns seem to have come close to pre-fear prices although

at one point I swear I saw XD(M) going for $499. Maybe it was a sale, maybe it was just my imagination.

The concern is still availability and pricing of ammo.

I dare not practice with my LCP because .380 auto ammo is simply unavailable where I am at and even online most stores don't have any in stock.

[doc03]

42. We viewed several youtube videos

in the class.

[ThomWV]

10. It was exactly the same kind of bullshit when I went throught it 2 years ago

Only then it was the nefarious Clintons that were the target of all their sick bullshit.

[Sheri]

11. the Democratic Party has given up on gun control.

but the people who make and sell guns continue to stoke the paranoia. it's good for their business.

[Statistical]

47. We have?

There are about 80 gun control bills being brought up this year just on the federal level.

The national reciprocity bill was defeated because Democrats in the Senate voted 2:1 against it.

Obama change.gov stated support for renewing the assualt weapons ban.

We have a dozen high profile gun-grabbers who are not only powerful within the party go on the media at least once a month with rants of "shoulder things that go up", and "heating seeking bullets".


The Democratic party has gotten much better than say 1994 when it comes to gun control but it is an outright falsehood to say it has given up gun control. BTW: gun control is one of the plants of the Democratic Party platform for 2008 (and likely 2010 & 2012).

[safeinOhio]

55. Try this, I've used it at gun shows

The guy says Obama/Dems are going to take away our guns. I say lets let a neutral party hold 2 grand of your money and 2 grand of mine. If at the end of his term and you haven't had one gun taken away, I get the money. If the government takes away one of your guns, you get the money. No one ever excepts and I always tell them it's because THEY don't even believe their own crap.

[Statistical]

65. Would you make the same bet about a ban?

Obama will sign a bill banning a single weapon by the end of his second term?

[gorfle]

69. I want to know the same thing.

Would he make the same bet about a ban?

[safeinOhio]

72. Yep I'd make that bet provided

No public official is assassinated or there are any massacres by crazy militia types. It seems all bans and proposed bans are made after some crazy person, like Hinkly or Oswald fuck it up for everyone.

[Statistical]

74. Who was assainated in 1986 & 1994? n/t

[safeinOhio]

75. 1986?

The Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 addressed the abuses noted in the 1982 Senate Judiciary Subcommittee report. It reopened interstate sales of long guns on a limited basis, allowed ammunition shipments through the U.S. Postal Service (a partial repeal of the Gun Control Act), ended record keeping on ammunition sales, except for armor piercing, permitted travel between states supportive of Second Amendment rights even through those areas less supportive of these rights, and addressed several other issues that had effectively restricted Second Amendment rights. However, the act also contained a provision that banned the sale of machine guns manufactured after the date of enactment to civilians, restricting sales of these weapons to the military and law enforcement. Thus, in the ensuing years, the limited supply of these arms available to civilians has caused an enormous increase in their price, with most costing in excess of $10,000. Regarding these fully automatic firearms owned by private citizens in the United States, political scientist Earl Kruschke said "approximately 175,000 automatic firearms have been licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (the federal agency responsible for administration of the law) and evidence suggests that none of these weapons has ever been used to commit a violent crime."<3>

Wikipedia
Looks like it unbanned more than it banned. Only banned the sale of machine guns manufactured after the date of enactment.

[Statistical]

76. "Only banned the sale of machine guns manufactured after the date of enactment."...

that would be a ban in my book and an arbitrary stupid one.

A Machinegun built in 1985 is safe enough for law abiding to own (with substantial restrictions) but one built in 1986 can be banned with no exceptions for the common good?

To my knowledge the only federal bans were 1934, 1968, 1986, and 1994.

[safeinOhio]

84. ok

1934 machine guns were banned because Al Capone types were killing off cops left and right. Seemed to be a fair reason for some restrictions. 1968 guns were back in the headlines as Bobby Kennedy was shot. 1994 unbanned as much as it banned. Then I remember bans on mail order guns after Jack Kennedy was shot. There are reasonable restrictions on the First Amendment and the Fourth, scream about those too. Laws change as a result of what happens. If one of your gun rights guys, like the one that shot the cops because Obama was coming for his guns, kills a major figure, you and everyone else WILL loose some Second amendment rights. It won't be because of liberals, it'll be because some one using a gun illegally to kill one important person or a large group.
There are some good reasons to ban some automatic weapons from just anyone owning them. Case in point that poor kid at the firing range that had the uzi he was firing walk it's way up to blow his brains out. Any argument that becomes more and more strictly idealistic, like unfetter capitalism, abortion is murder or there should be zero restriction of firearms, falls on it's face. If there are no compromises ever, then when you do loose, you loose everything.
You'll pick away at this logic, because that is what you do.

[X_Digger]

88. 1934 NFA..

.. had just as much to do with the union strikes of 1932, 1933, and the spring of 1934 as anything else.

Read Workers on the Waterfront, Seamen, Longshoremen and Unionism in the 1930s, by Bruce Nelson if you want to know some of the fears in congress at the time.

[Statistical]

89. What exactly did 1994 "unban".

What exactly was the immediate public crisis that led to the 1994 ban.
You are speaking out of your ass.

They banned guns in 1994 because they wanted to and the figured American wouldn't care or would consider them heroes.
Even the Clinton DOJ in 1998 concluded the AWB had no discernible affect on crime.

It was a feel good, do nothing ban prompted by the very same people that propose a ban, or draconian restriction every year.
The antis need to compelling reason to ban guns. Guns exist therefore they want to ban them.

Of course you miss the point on automatic weapons. Not just anyone can own one and the 86 ban simply says 1985 and older machinegun = safe for public, 1986 ban = too dangerous nobody can ever own one. Once again a feel good ban designed to ban for the sake of banning.

There was no assassination that led to the 1986 or 1994 gun bans, your belief that if the gun owners are good nobody will try to ban something is not based on history. So I ask you again what assasination attempt led to the 1986 or 1994 gun bans?

[safeinOhio]

96. You should read the post before you ask about it

From my post above
"The Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 addressed the abuses noted in the 1982 Senate Judiciary Subcommittee report. It reopened interstate sales of long guns on a limited basis, allowed ammunition shipments through the U.S. Postal Service (a partial repeal of the Gun Control Act), ended record keeping on ammunition sales, except for armor piercing, permitted travel between states supportive of Second Amendment rights even through those areas less supportive of these rights, and addressed several other issues that had effectively restricted Second Amendment rights."

The 1994 law, once again from wikipedia

The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act was an act of Congress dealing with crime and law enforcement that became law in 1994. It is the largest crime bill in the history of the US and will provide for 200,000 new police officers, $9.7 billion in funding for prisons and $6.1 billion in funding for prevention programs which were designed with significant input from experienced police officers. <1> Sponsored by U.S. Representative Jack Brooks of Texas, the bill was passed by Congress and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.
Following the 101 California Street shootings and other high-profile instances of violent crime, the act expanded federal law in several ways. One of the most noted sections was the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. Other parts of the act provided for a greatly expanded federal death penalty, new classes of individuals banned from possessing firearms, and a variety of new crimes defined in statutes relating to immigration law, hate crimes, sex crimes, and gang-related crime.

Please read the part above that starts with "Following the 101 California Street Shooting and other high-profile........ All so note what else the law did in respect to funding police, prisons and crime prevention programs.

I know your NRA sources limit you to one side of the argument and ignore any FACTS that contradict their goal of only electing Republicans, just as Glenn Beck and Rush L. do. Not only will you argue with anti-gun people, you'll argue with Second Amendment supporters that live in the real world.

[Statistical]

100. Once again really slow what did 1994 VCC&LEA "unban"

You stated the 1994 law unbanned as much as it banned.

In case you are confused here is your EXACT words.
"1994 unbanned as much as it banned."


It is a simple question, what did the 1994 law unban? Name a single thing the 1994 law unbanned.

I don't care if you are pro-RKBA, anti-RKBA, or don't even know guns existed, you made a false statement and I called you on it. Now you are getting bent out of shape and throwing in unrelated facts rather than just admit it.

Once you need to resort to name calling it kinda shows you have no legitimate argument (how the fuck did Glen Beck get into this conversation?)

For the last time since you seem to have trouble responding to the question asked.
What did the 1994 law "unban"?

[safeinOhio]

101. I'll spell it out for you

it reopened interstate sales of long guns on a limited basis,(that means it allowed some interstate sales of long guns THAT HAD BEEN BANNED. allowed ammunition shipments through the U.S. Postal Service (a partial repeal of the Gun Control Act),(that means ammunitions that had BEEN BANNED FROM SHIPPING in the U.S. mail could be shipped in the mail) ended record keeping on ammunition sales,(That means it was NO LONGER BANNED TO SELL ammo with out record keeping) except for armor piercing, permitted travel between states supportive of Second Amendment rights even through those areas less supportive of these rights, and {addressed several other issues that had effectively restricted Second Amendment rights].


I didn't think I had any trouble responding to the question. This is the third time I've posted it and hopefully spelled it out for you. Sorry for the insults, it is just hard to have to repeat things so often.

[Statistical]

102. None of that happened in 1994.

All of that applies to the 1986 FOPA. Did you think I wouldn't notice?

So despite dodging the question for the third time you still are unwilling to admit this statement made by you 4 posts ago is false:

"1994 unbanned as much as it banned."

Please cite a SINGLE thing that was unbanned in 1994.

[safeinOhio]

104. :You are right I did confuse 1986 bill with the 1994 one.

So, what was your first statement about the 1986 bill? Anyway I did answer that part. Now to get back on subject, my first post was about Obama taking away your guns. You change it to bans or what others call restrictions. Now I never offered up a bet on restrictions, I did on taking away guns you own. You never address that point, you only changed it because you have no argument with that--->so this has all been an exercise in mental masturbation.

[Statistical]

106. Ah so 5 posts later you admit it. I included the date in every post I corrected you in.

You threw in Glen Beck, Rush and insults for no damn reason and NOW finally you admit nothing was unbanned in 1994.

So the Democrats banned guns in 1994, they didn't unban anything and it wasn't in response to any assasinations. Some people in this country will ban guns because the sun came up this morning. The idea we can apease the antis and stop gun bans would be laughable if it wasn't so sad. We stop the antis by making sure politicians know if the vote for a gun ban they collect unemployment. Period. Most Democrats are scared enough of the role reversal in 1994 to avoid trying it again. We need to make sure they understand a gun ban is never acceptable and it has consequences.

The original point was most people don't think Obama is going to take away guns. Think about it for a second WHY would anyone buy a gun they think Obama will take away? Let me spend $2000 so the government can take it from me.

Doesn't it make a lot more sense to buy a gun that you think will be unavailable (because it is banned) in the future?

I wish I had bought a machinegun in 1985 or a dozen I could have retired by now :) (well hypothetically speaking I was a little young).
I wish I had bought a rack of AK knock offs in 1993 at $400 a pop and then sold them in 1995 for $1200 a pop.
I wish I had bought enough ammo for five years, 2 years ago when ammo was priced half of what it is now.

People are buying guns because of fear that Obama will ban them in the future not that they will be confiscated.
Confiscation is a strawman and ignores the much more likely scenario that Obama may not ban guns but he may ban them. Obama ran on a promise to re-institute the AWB, previously in his career he indicated support for a ban on handguns, and stated he believed the complete gun BAN in DC was Constitutional.

What do all these have in common? Maybe a politicians that considers bans on firearms to be both useful and not violating the 2nd which would be a risk to gunowners. People are buying guns because they may not be able to buy them in the future.

Personally I think Reid will keep any AWB2 from reaching Obama desk but if one hit his desk Obama would sign it without blinking. He isn't going to rally for it but he would sign it.

[safeinOhio]

103. Now back to my original post.

It was about Obama taking away anyones guns. You are the one that had to change the terms of the bet to make your argument and make it about bans. You had to use the "straw man" argument by changing the subject, TAKING AWAY GUNS, into BANNS. I see the same tactic used every day to discredit health and other progressive ideas.

[Statistical]

107. CONFISCATION is the stawman.

The real threat has been, is now and always will be a ban.

However if banning firearms is such a strawman why did you agree to betting on if Obama will BAN (not confiscate) firearms in post #72.

[safeinOhio]

108. my bet response to an idiot at a gun show that said

Obama is going to take away our guns. You may not think so. You think he is going to ban stuff, still not my bet. You twist my post to a different argument and then blame me for a straw man argument? Then I will take you up on my bet that there will be no gun bans under Obama as long as there is no incident, mass killing or assassination. Now, How much?

[Statistical]

109. Didn't you already agree to that 15 posts ago.... in post #72?

Before your "forgot"? Are you sure you aren't off your meds?

If you want a wager how about this. Loser donates $100 to DU.
You lose when Obama signs a gun ban before leaving office.
I lose when Obama leaves office without signing a gun ban (either in 2013 or 2017 if re-elected).

[safeinOhio]

111. Your on. Wanna make it $1,000?

[SteveM]

93. I'll address one point in your statement...

Of the Gun Control Act of l968, Journalist and gun-control advocate Robert Sherrill said: " to shut off weapons access to blacks... while leaving over-the-counter purchases to the affluent." Other early gun-control advocates said similar things about the motivation of law-makers. You may remember the huge number of "inner city" riots during the 60s.

These acts followed the model of Jim Crow legislation which, ironically, was collapsing just as gun-control was taken up in the North.

[SteveM]

92. My take on the term "paranoia:"

A fear all out of proportion to the threat at hand. Both President Obama and the Democratic Party agree on a plainly-written policy of banning the so-called "assault weapon" (whatever that is). In fact, the policy is clearly enunciated in the present Democratic Party platform. President Obama's web site (the last I looked) called for a similar prohibition policy. The types of firearms that are listed in the Democratic-proposed legislation includes many more arms than the ineffective 10-year ban which ended in 2004. For your information, the AR-15 and AK-47 "clone" and similar platforms (all semi-automatic) are now the most popular rifle in the U.S., save for the ubiquitous .22. Some 16 million Americans own these firearms, a far greater number than licensed hunters. America is re-arming itself -- and the weapon of choice is the type included in the sweeping ban legislation and the policy statements.

BTW, the strongest interest group within the gun-control lobby is mainstream media, which still aggressively pursues some sort of ban or severe restriction on firearms.

Do you still think these folks are paranoid?

[PM Martin]

12. Why did you get a concealed gun permit?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

21. I'm guessing it was so he could carry a firearm legally.

[Pavulon]

24. Because he/she can? Note to OP

carry is weird for a while. You think you are printing and it feels like everyone knows. In reality no one knows. Buy a really good holster (galco, etc) and go to the grocery store or wally world and you will get used to it.

What are you carrying?

[michreject]

44. The Wally world walk

It's a right of passage.

[doc03]

33. Because I can. Really the only time I may use it is

when I go fishing in the evening. I ran into some suspicious characters when I returned to the launch ramp by myself late at night a couple times. To carry a gun on daily basis just seems like a pain in the ass to me, I am sure I would feel differently if I lived in a high crime area

[proteus_lives]

54. Why not?

[michreject]

13. For the 1st three months carry it all the time

Get use to the feeling of wearing it. Don't go cheap on a holster. If you do, you may just leave it at home. Remember a 22 in your pocket is better than a 44 at home.

I have 20 carry guns and have a custom holster for each one of them.

[Historic NY]

43. Make sure you hit a few town halls with it too.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

68. It would be concealed so why would it matter.

[Historic NY]

71. its called

:sarcasm:

[Euromutt]

51. Get a good stiff belt a well

The best holster in the world doesn't help if it's on a cheap belt; it'll flop around any time you need to loosen your belt (e.g. when you go to the toilet), and drawing and re-holstering is impeded by the belt having some "give." So a dedicated gun belt is a good investment.

I bought a "Frequent Flyer" model from The Wilderness (http://store.thewilderness.com/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=196), specifically the polymer-lined version. But their other models (http://store.thewilderness.com/index.php?cPath=43) are available with polymer lining as well. The belt is so comfortable, I wear it on a daily basis. It's called the "Frequent Flyer" because it's metal-free, so I don't have to take it off at the airport, which is great.

[sandnsea]

14. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING, would be worth that

I don't understand how, and more importantly why, people don't read this nutsos the riot act.

[Kingofalldems]

18. How do people so obviously hostile get concealed carry permits?

[Pavulon]

26. Being an asshole is not illegal, nor is having opinions.

most states have pretty extensive criminal checks.

[doc03]

49. Really most of the people in the class seemed like just

your average middle class person next door. There was only one I found a little questionable, a young guy that had gone through law enforcement training in the past and is thinking of going back into it again. From a couple comments he made he seemed to be a little too trigger happy in my opinion. From my experience it seems far too many of those types are attracted to law enforcement.

[spin]

90. Quite often they become security guards, cops call them...

cop wanna bes.

Don't get me wrong, I've known a lot of excellent security guards. But a lot a guys who could never become a cop chose to wear a security guard uniform and play one.

[doc03]

91. I know some of them myself. n/t

[armyowalgreens]

20. I don't understand why politics ever came up. Must have been a shitty instructor.

[doc03]

41. I knew it would. Most NRA members and Faux Noise

watchers just can't help themselves they are convinced they are authorities on politics. They are just like the born again Christians that think it is their obligation to try and save us. They probably assumed since we were getting a concealed carry we all shared their political views.
Just talk to any clerk behind a firearms counter, every one of them will steer the conversation to politics in short order. We have loonies on our side too..

[Euromutt]

63. Still, who listens to that stuff other than the people who already believe it?

Irritating as your instructor's sermonizing may have been, I sincerely doubt that stuff changes anybody's mind. In spite of having been a member of the NRA for almost two years, I still roll my eyes at most the stuff that comes out of LaPierre's mouth, and I'm pretty certain that's not going to change anytime soon.

[yost69]

77. I know you said most. My instructor never once brought up politics.

He was very professional in that stance. Someone brought it up in class and he steered away from the conversation.

I think that if you are teaching a class about something nonpolitical. It should stay that way.

[HughMoran]

22. If it makes you feel any better, I imagined shooting these people as I read your post

Amazing that you were able to bite your tongue all day. :puke:

[rrneck]

27. Well done. You clearly

have the emotional maturity and restraint to be a responsible firearms owner.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

28. When do you think your gun will make you shoot your family and then a bunch of people you don't know

[TicketyBoo]

29. Hubby…

…is an absolute liberal who belongs to the local gun club. I don't know how he puts up with the BS, but he argues with the rest of the members all the time. I worry about his safety every time he goes to the range. He was kicked out of a local pawn shop and told not to come back because he was standing up for Obama in the midst of some RW rants.

[Pangolin2]

34. I believe every word!

I really do.

[robo50]

40. Are you one of those persons who loves guns more than you love

banging your head against the wall until it no longer hurts when you stop?

Define: "masochist" for us, please.

Osama Bin Laden doesn't need to destroy America, Americans will just kill each other off and save him the trouble.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

53. Murder rate has been in decline for years. You are mistaken.

[Tim01]

60. Overly emotional much? Good grief. nt

[tularetom]

46. Why should anybody have to have a permit to carry a firearm?

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who favors "concealed carry" laws is a gun grabber.

[yost69]

78. To legally protect yourself against the criminals that carry illegally?

My response time is quicker than the law enforcement. I would rather be legally aloud to protect myself than be at the mercy of the criminal while waiting on the law enforcement to arrive.

[tularetom]

79. I don't need a permit to do that

It would be the firearm that protects me not the law.

[aikoaiko]

50. Do you have to qualify now? Post your target if you do.

;)

[Tim01]

61. That's an awsome idea.

Wouldn't it be great if it became a tradition here?

[snake in the grass]

52. saved for later n/t

[proteus_lives]

56. Congrats on the class.

Screw those teabags and Beck-lovers. CCW and gun rights are liberal and progressive view-points. You just being there shows we won't them hi-jack the concepts.

It's not worth arguing with them in this setting, you're there to learn and if the instructor knows his stuff, let him sprout off.

This RKBA Democrat hopes all goes well for you. :thumbsup:

[Skittles]

57. sounds like a gun nuttery class

[Tim01]

59. Leaders.......and a little power.

Don't think that dickheads are restricted to gun class instructors. But there is a pretty high percentage.

And a gun class is one of those situations where someone has you over a barrel.It isn't like you can run across the street to walmart to get your certificate, you are stuck for a while. I tend to think that people who end up in charge in similar situations are there because it is the only place they can get away with being a prick.

I saw it a lot in the military. Low level managers who would be fired or punched in the civilian world.

Surgeons. Christ, don't get me started on surgeons.

And traffic court judges, OMFG!


Hey, write his ass up. Write complaint letters to anybody who could have an effect. The NRA who gave him the certificate. The range he works for, everybody. Don't go on about how you are a democrat. Just say you don't like having to listen to a political monologue while you are in gun class, and they have lost a future customer.

[rrneck]

73. +1

[rl6214]

62. Glad you made it through and

Welcome to the club.

[WVRICK13]

64. No Freedom of Choice

NRA has a nice little scam going. In WV, not sure about elsewhere, is the only option to get the course. Then they talk as much about politics as they do gun safety.

[Statistical]

66. WV law makes no such requirement. A simple google search found numerous courses not related to NRA.

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/WVCODE/code.cfm?chap=61&art=7

(d) All persons applying for a license must complete a training course in handling and firing a handgun. The successful completion of any of the following courses fulfills this training requirement:

(1) Any official national rifle association handgun safety or training course;

(2) Any handgun safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by an official law-enforcement organization, community college, junior college, college or private or public institution or organization or handgun training school utilizing instructors duly certified by such institution;

(3) Any handgun training or safety course or class conducted by a handgun instructor certified as such by the state or by the national rifle association;

(4) Any handgun training or safety course or class conducted by any branch of the United States military, reserve or national guard.

The highlighted portion of b makes it virtually any course. Anyone who becomes certified can then instruct under section b.

[WVRICK13]

81. No Argument

with the law, nor what it says. However, it is impossible to find a course in my area or in a reasonable drive that is not NRA taught and full of political rhetoric.

[Statistical]

83. Sounds like a business opertunity.

Something similar to pink pistols but more generalized like "lefty pistols". :)

[SteveM]

94. I've been thinking the same thing: "Gunning for Liberals" ...

Or simply "gunning for the rest of us."

[Euromutt]

80. Understand than an "NRA instructor" is only NRA-certified

To be an NRA-certified instructor, you don't work for the NRA; in fact, you don't even have to be a member (though it is Strongly Encouraged). You're an independent agent with NRA certification, not unlike an IT person can be Microsoft-certified without being a Microsoft employee. And the training materials have no political content.

[gorfle]

70. You have a duty to speak up.

You have a duty to speak up to such people.

At the minimum, a simple, polite request to keep politics out of the training class would be fine.

At a maximum, you might ask him that if he is espousing firearms training as insurance against a government tyranny, what did he think about the last 8 years of moving towards that precipice with pervasive domestic surveillance, torture, extraordinary rendition, and the suspension of habeus corpus?

Firearms training is important, and should be extended to as to reach as many people as possible regardless of politics. In all seriousness you should at least write a letter to this instructor asking him to leave his politics at the door when teaching firearm safety.

[WVRICK13]

82. Uhh, Not in a Roomful

of right wing nut jobs with handguns. LOL. Seriously, I am the only one who found the political discussion the least bit odd. I know, when I choose to live in the area I live I get what comes with it.

[PM Martin]

112. True.

That's why I never visit the boonies.

[doc03]

85. They wouldn't understand

why anyone would oppose domestic surveillance, torture, extraordinary rendition, and the suspension of habeas corpus of a (terrorist)? If you repeat a lie enough times people believe it, whenever the subject comes up on Fox they always call the victim of those atrocities a (terrorist) and that's what they have come to believe. They would think I was a nut case to oppose torturing a terrorist, it would be pointless to even attempt to explain it. I would come off looking like a total asshole in their minds.

[Paladin]

86. None Of That Excuses Your Failure To Confront Those Jerkoffs. (n/t)

[gorfle]

95. You don't have to make them understand.

All that is required is to politely ask the instructor if he would please leave the politics out of his firearm instructional course.

[doc03]

113. If you read my post, politics were not mentioned until

we finished the course and the test. There was the one (joke) he made when showing us how to make sure a gun is unloaded. We were in a small room, so in order not to point it at one of us he pointed to the ceiling and said Obama may be flying over and that got a laugh from most of them. If I was in his shoes I may have made the same remark about Bush flying over.

[Treo]

87. Congratulations

Now you must do the Wal-Mart walk

[Xenotime]

97. I would report that wacked gun nut job to the local authorities..

Speaking ill of Obama in a plane has to be criminal at best.

[Tim01]

105. Yeah, call the police, and the FBI, and the Army! nt

[Kaleva]

110. For what reason?

Speaking ill of President Obama in a plane? What law was broken? The gun was unloaded, the instructor was showing the class how to check to make sure it was unloaded and he also said to never point the weapon at anyone while performing the check.

[doc03]

114. Oh come on, you can't call the SS

because a guy makes a joke you don't like. He had to point the gun to the ceiling in order to not point it at one of us. It was a double action .38 cal. revolver the cylinder was open and even if you purposely shot the thing through the roof of the building I don't think it would hit AF-1 at 30000 feet. I have made much worse statements about Bush* myself. These people were obviously mostly Republicans you have to expect things like that, they are Faux junkies they hear nothing but negative stuff on all Democrats 24/7. You get a bunch of us together we would be saying nasty stuff about Bush and Cheney.

[Paladin]

115. I Guess It's Just A Lot Easier To Hang Out At DU.......

....and engage in non-stop, 24/7 shitcanning of Democrats for their real or perceived policy on guns---rather than seizing a prime teaching moment, now isn't it? You DU gun militants never tire of lecturing the rest of us about how the gun rights movement isn't 110% hyper-conservative, that gun rights is in fact somehow a liberal concept, that JFK liked guns almost as much as he liked women, etc., etc., etc. But when it comes down to it, it's just a lot simpler to crap on Democrats, rather than to make an effort to turn a few right-wingers' thinking around---I mean, God forbid you should look like an asshole to people like that, right? People whose opinions obviously matter to you. Thanks for confirming suspicions that I've harbored for a long, long time....