The corrupt gun industry in action

[MrBenchley]

Yeah, these guys have such a sterling sense of public responsibility...no wonder they need immunity from liability...

"Stinger offers these potentially lethal weapons with a suggested retail price of US$250.
And don't worry about needing any kind of a complicated background check to buy one.
The Stinger Pen Gun fits neatly into a legal loophole that allows anyone to buy one in the U.S. without the usual hassles of a background check associated with similar 'gadget' weaponry.
Concerned about the accuracy of such a tiny pistol?
The Stinger Manufacturing Corp. has anticipated that concern and advises that it will soon make available an 18-inch barrel-extension kit that allows its pen gun to be used as a sniper rifle."

http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/full_story.asp?StoryNumber=5273

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

1. Sniper Rifle?

Ok so we have something here that barely passes for a gun, that is to say it manages to hold itself together well enough to launch a .22 Long Rifle from a barrel. So you take this half ass thing, toss on a wire stock, El Cheapo scope and more barrel and it becomes a sniper rifle?

The Ad linked by the story above is dated somewhere before 1991, when I went tot he stinger site today, the "sniper" barrel still is not available. Maybe someone figured out that you can't take a bad gun, put an equally bad barrel, scope and stock on it and expect it to hit anything accurately.

Furthermore, the website itself claims the Stinger Pengun to be classified as a pistol by the ATF since 1991. That WILL require a background check to purchase.

http://www.stingerpengun.com/stinger.htm

Feel free to spin that article into saying something else if you wish. Stinger will only sell to licensed FFL holders.

[MrBenchley]

2. Hahahahaha...

Between you and the newspaper, I'll believe the newspaper...

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

5. Hmm, let's see

*I* am not making these claims. The company itself is.

The company claims the pistol is registered as a pistol by the ATF. I see no reson to doubt this claim, especially seeing as the company will only take sales orders from licensed FFL dealers. It's all on that little link there in my post, just look around the site and think for yourself.

How that article could print blatant falsehoods is beyond me.

Now let me see if I can dig up an ATF listing of that stupid pen gun to put this whole thing to bed.

[MrBenchley]

16. Hahahahaha...

"*I* am not making these claims. The company itself is."
Well, THERE's clearly a source with integrity....NOT.

[Spoonman]

8. I'll believe the newspaper

LMFAO

That has to be, by far, the best one you have EVER used!

[Withergyld]

11. wouldn't a better title be "Evidence of a Corrupt Media Source"??

:freak:

[Name removed]

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[1a2b3c]

65. HAHAHAHA

No shit, too funny. Thanks for the laugh wither, and you too bench.

[MrBenchley]

13. Gee, spoon...

Like the RKBA crowd has even a whiff of credibility anymore...

[Spoonman]

17. And the brady bunch,

being registered republicans does?
Hey everyone – Mr.Benchley say’s we should now start listening to the repukes, because they so credible!!!!
Surrrre!!!!
How about all those disproved numbers release by the VPC?

Or the dozen or so hypocritical “guns for me but not for you” of the anti-crowd elite?

I would venture to say credibility is most lacking in those you quote!

[Name removed]

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[Spoonman]

24. PS

Keep sucking up to the republican brady bunch, and I will.
Nothing bigoted there!

[Spoonman]

25. VPC, MMM and The Brady Bunch Numbers,

on children killed each day and CC permit holders committing crimes...I don't have to disprove them, they retracted them VOLUNTARILY!!!!!!!

[Wickerman]

36. Time OUT! Debate the issues, Stop the personal attacks

Thank you, we now return you to your regularly scheduled festival of flames.

And have a nice day.

:grr:

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[madddog]

32. thanks...

I can't believe I haven't gotten one of his famous replies yet...I await it on tenterhooks :D

[Name removed]

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[Withergyld]

3. What a Pantload

Lies intended to mislead the public.
"And don't worry about needing any kind of a complicated background check to buy one."
The Stinger is considered a pistol by the ATF, and a NICS check is required to buy it the same as any other pistol.

[MrBenchley]

4. Hahahahahaha!!

Too too funny...

[Withergyld]

9. laugh all you want

It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
:dunce:

[Name removed]

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[LARED]

6. Interesting

The newpaper has a headline that says;

No background check required.

Then says

The Stinger Pen Gun fits neatly into a legal loophole that allows anyone to buy one in the U.S. without the usual hassles of a background check associated with similar 'gadget' weaponry.

That is quite bit different than no background check required, as you are still required to go though the same checks if you are buying a handgun just not if you buy a so called 'gadget' weapon.

Which at least in our home state of New Jersey a permit to buy a handgun requires a pretty in depth (and expensive) background check.

But I must thank you as my wife has been asking me what I want for Christmas, and you just showed me the perfect gift. Although because I live in NJ the background check process will mostly likely take too long to get it under the tree in time for the holidays. The kids will be disappointed as they love to shoot dads new toys.

[Oberst Klink]

7. Cool ... thanks for the link

Great Christmas gift idea.

I am certainly getting one for myself. My brother and dad may get one each as a stocking stuffer, depending on the cost.

[1a2b3c]

66. Here is one for $165 shipped to an FFL

http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=13848991

[Spoonman]

10. "no wonder they need immunity from liability"

The same immunity that the automotive manufactures have.
Your right, it's about time those immunities applied to all industries!

[MrBenchley]

15. Spoon, who are you trying to kid?

[Spoonman]

18. OK

so disprove it, oh you can't, because it's true!!!!!!!

Too bad that tired old horseshit you keep spewing no longer has any relevance!
My god what will you do now?!

[MrBenchley]

20. Disprove what?

That you're babbling incoherent nonsense AGAIN?

"Worth noting that the threat of crime  Spoonman   Nov-25-03 03:51 PM   #48 
Say what?  MrBenchley   Nov-25-03 03:55 PM   #53 
  eh?  slavkomae   Nov-25-03 03:55 PM   #54 
   Never mind,  Spoonman   Nov-25-03 03:56 PM   #56"

 
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=24898&mesg_id=24898

[slackmaster]

23. You posted a link to a post by el_gato

What are you trying to say, MrBenchley?

Having a problem with links lately?

LOL!

[Spoonman]

26. Typical...

It's hard to keep it all straight when it's misrepresented to begin with!

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[MrBenchley]

35. Gee, Slack...

Do you think that's why my name and the names of spoonman, and slavkomae appear after the initial post in the thrreadwith those numbers?

Or have you lost the power to scroll down?

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[MrBenchley]

40. Slack, I really don't care what YOU do

the post speaks for itself. If you want to pretend you don't get it...feel free.

[slackmaster]

41. If that's true why do you keep replying to my posts?

the post speaks for itself.

Only in your well-oiled imagination, MrBenchley.

Sterm.

Kever.

:evilgrin:

[DonP]

28. Saw one at the Will County Gun Show last year

Corrupt Gun Industry my foot.

What a piece 'o crap.

$250 bucks. It fires a .22, single shot of course and will only fire when folded into the "pistol configuration" No rifling in the barrel either. The old zip gun from a car aerial is scarier and probably more accurate and concealable.

It really is a lot bigger than the pictures make it look too. It's sized more like a ratchet for a socket set and weighs about as much too.

It's a stupid gimmick but a great way to terrorize the antis into sending more money for the desperately failing gun control cause.

Sara Brady will be buying her next Lexus with the contributions she scares up from this one and probably make more money than the company that makes it ever will.

Let's see NRA membership is way up, Million Moms went bankrupt and fired 95% of their staff. Now 45 states have concealed carry. And we don't control any branch of government and still have people pushing this tired piece of crap using nbackground from a Republican controlled website.

That's what I call progress.

[slackmaster]

29. I thought NFA regs required pistol barrels to be rifled

In order to avoid being classified as Any Other Weapon (AOW).

[DonP]

31. I didn't see any, but ...

I looked down the barrel of it and couldn't see any visible riflng. But my eyes are getting old and if there was any rifling it was pretty damned faint..

The rest of the consruction was more like something that came out of a high school shop class project rather than from James Bond's Q.

But ain't it great how something that came out almost 5 years ago and never went anywhere can stir some folks up so much that they froth at the mouth on a daily basis.

I'm a big gadget guy but this wasn't even close to well made IMHO and anything that goes bang around me better inspire confidence in its construction. This didn't.

[madddog]

33. I saw a home made one..

that some guy at my range had last year...it looked even more like a POS...a kaboom waiting to happen.

[madddog]

34. So...Whatya'll shootin' this weekend?

ARs for me...and probably something milsurp as well...Enfield or Mosin...whatever I have ammo for.

[DonP]

38. Celebrate your individual RKBA, go shooting

These kind of "the sky is falling" threads inspire me to go to the range too. The pinheads that espouse more gun control as the answer to crime are on the losing end and will stay that way from the looks of things, so let's all go shooting and ignore them for a few days.

I guess I just feel the need to do some serious "penis compensation" this weekend. How about the rest of you folks?

I have a new Garand from CMP, Danish VAR barrel to test drive. And the evil, corrupt gun industry shipped it direct to my office mail room last week. Amazingly, it did not go on a shooting rampage int he mail room. It's a great piece of living working American History, made in November of 1943.

I also have to do a sighting in on my Enfield No. 5 Jungle Carbine. I expect to be taking some aspirin before the day is out for my shoulder.

I'll bring my Bushie M-4gery too. I picked up a new reflex sight and want to see if I can get it to co-witness with the BUIS. Now that is an evil looking gun.

Good shooting, oh and don't forget to bring your .22 evil, corrupt gun industry pen-gun/sniper rifle to sight it in at 300 yards.

What a dummy, the author of the story that is of course.

[slackmaster]

39. Well, I haven't been laid in several months

I guess I just feel the need to do some serious "penis compensation" this weekend. How about the rest of you folks?


Maybe I ought to drag an AR-15 to Tucson with me and hook up with some fellow RKBA enthusiasts. Perhaps I can talk my cousins into a round of plinking.

In any case, I never travel across the desert without a weapon handy.

:evilgrin:

[madddog]

42. I got my CMP Garand

from a guy up the street who collects them..I guess he buys the limit each year. when he popped open the safe to get mine, he had at LEAST 20 more in there...along with 2 or 3 '03s, and a bunch of the WWI issue .45 revolvers.

It's a Danish VAR as well...he sold it for the going price, plus 80 rounds of ammo and an extra stock for anothe $50...$500 out the door for a great piece of history.

What kind of sight did you get for the Bushy? OKO? ACOG?. I have an RRA M4gery with an ARMS #40 and a Holosight (poor man's Eotech lol)...co-witnesses perfectly. That's a great setup overall, for CQB especially.

I've got an Aimpoint on another of my ARs, along with an ARMS #38. I like that setup up too.

I'll probably be doing some skeet this weekend as well...a buddy just got one of the Baikul over and unders...he's anxious to bust some clays, so I don't think I can avoid it lol. I like to shoot skeet, I'm just not very good at it.

[DonP]

45. Great deal on the Garand!

Boy you got really nice neighbors! I'm moving to your street.

I picked up a Panorama Bed 35 reflex with 4 different reticles; dopt, cross hairs etc. The local gun store had it sitting in the case for almost a year with no interest. She sold it to me for $150 just to get it out the door. Very nice little piece of machined aluminum.

I have the ARMs 40 too on a flat top 4gery. Next year I can get the real thing, collapsible stock and all.

There is a web site where you can date your Garand for manufacture and even get an idea what unit it was issued to in some cases.

Mine went to the 5th Fleet Marine Force in late 43. Those guys (my uncle was one of them) had a very busy 1944 with their Garands. Just another bunch of penis compensating, racist gun nuts I guess.

My next purchase is probably going to be a Springfield 03A3. That will be my Chirtsmas present to me.

Have fun this weekend.

[Oberst Klink]

46. cool.

I got my catalog last week.

Sung to the tune of that MTV song:

"I want my
I want my
I want my M14"

[Withergyld]

43. I'm goin' tomorrow morning

A friend of mine has black powder cannon that shoots golf balls :)

[madddog]

44. kewl...

loud AND smoky...could it get any better :D

[Withergyld]

67. Movies of this mornings outing!

I went out to the desert this morning. My friend brought his black powder cannon. We shot several golf balls out of it and some lead miniballs that he makes. I took some movies for your enjoyment.
The first is shooting a milk jug full of water with a golf ball.
http://mail4.cableaz.com/~mjbvrb/cannon/waterjug.MOV
Next is shooting an empty propane tank with a lead miniball.
http://mail4.cableaz.com/~mjbvrb/cannon/tank.MOV
Here is a picture of the hole in the tank, to the right on the ground is the projectile taken out of the propane tank.

One last movie. Who says you need a pistol grip to shoot from the hip??
http://mail4.cableaz.com/~mjbvrb/cannon/hipshot.MOV

[Spoonman]

47. DUCKS and BUCKS

The Beretta and Sako will be singing this weekend!

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

62. I'll be out this weekend

Shooting .308 PSS. I've got some 168 grain Berger VLD handloads to try out at 600 yards. They already hold well at 300, we'll see if they hold up at 600.

The AR-15 will have to get some range time. It's just not a range trip unless the AR gets warmed up.

I will also be trying out some hunting handloads for my Dad's 7mm. 140 Nosler BT's. These are still in the experimental stage for this gun.

Now if I can talk someone into cleaning all these things for me...

[RoeBear]

48. Did you think...

...that the paper was saying no NICS check was necessary to get this weapon? You now know that isn't true, don't you?

[MrBenchley]

49. Too too funny, roe....

You mean you think that the RKBA crowd's rubbish is convincing to anyone with a working brain?

"The U.S. National Firearms Act was passed in 1934 in a bid to restrict the ability of gangsters to arm themselves with machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, and other weapons.
That law specifically requires owners of so-called gadget guns, including guns disguised as walking canes and pens, to register the weapon, undergo a background check that often takes months, and to get approval from local law enforcement agencies.
However, ATF has chosen to exclude Stinger Pen Guns and Knife Guns from these requirements, because the weapons cannot be fired in their original configurations.
To discharge these weapons, the barrel must be bent away from the handle, a conversion that Stinger ads boast takes just two seconds. "

http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/full_story.asp?StoryNumber=5278

Be sure and read the demented quote from the goon who runs Keepandbeararms.com.

[slackmaster]

50. LMAO!

Another Red Herring!

[MrBenchley]

51. Yeah, but slack

I consider the source....

Slackmaster (#32): "The presence of a few idiots in Nazi uniforms need not spoil a family outing."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=22105

[slackmaster]

52. A link to a thread started by filthyrottenbastards?

I welcome anyone reading the whole thread and seeing my comment in context.

What are you REALLY trying to say, MrBenchley?

[MrBenchley]

53. Gee, slack...

"I welcome anyone reading the whole thread and seeing my comment in context."
So do I.

[slackmaster]

54. Pay particular attention to reply #34

Where I wrote:

Actually, the author of the WSJ article was making a point that the few wackos in Nazi uniforms that are sometimes seen at the Knob Creek Shoot were not representative of the "gun culture" at large. He compared the machine gun owners and collectors, not the Nazi uniform wearers, to the Hummel club.

I believe your personal bias against gun owners has inhibited your ability to read the piece objectively, MrBenchley. Your misperception that I have pointed out here is quite obvious. The author of the WSJ piece did not even say that he personally saw anyone in a Nazi uniform, rather that such people are sometimes seen by reporters and their presence spun to demonize all gun owners.

Please try reading the article one more time. I'm sure you can read it objectively if you really want to.

MrBenchley completely missed the point of the WSJ article. The whole thread is quite entertaining.

[MrBenchley]

55. Hey, it doesn't get any more honest with age....

How many loonies wearing Nazi uniforms were toddling around the Hummel collectors convention?

[slackmaster]

56. Who gives a shit?

You seem to have Nazis on the brain, MrBenchley.

Why do you suppose that is the case?

And BTW - Don't let yourself get trampled by the hordes of DU contributors rushing to join you in your feeble attempt to discredit me, MrBenchley.

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[DonP]

61. Nazi pen guns, very interesting

Hmmm, I was at the gun show and didn't see any Nazi's with their evil racist pen guns.

I didn't even see the confederate flags or the klan stuff either. I guess I wasn't looking for it as avidly as some folks do, that never go to gun shows anyway.

But that just means the pen gun Nazis were probably well camoflaged as the latino and african-american guy looking at the pen gun with me. They thought it was a pretty stupid idea too. Very sneaky these Nazi impersonators.

If I see a T-shirt at the next Will County show that says "Heute Pen Guns, Morgen Das Welt" I'll know we're in trouble.

What a weird hijacking of a thread on a stupid novelty item. Now we're talking about Nazi's.

[1a2b3c]

63. I dont know where you found this bit of MISinformation

but it is just that, as always.

Read the fine print: To Buy This Gun You Must Be 21 Years Old & Supply Pictured ID (Drivers License, Concealed Weapons Permit, or State Issued ID)! It Must Be Shipped To A Licensed Fire Arms Dealer! The Buyer Must Contact Their Local Fire Arms Dealer To Make Arrangements For Transfer Of Gun! http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=13848991

And its not $250, thats if you dont shop around for a good deal. I found this one for $165 shipped to your federal firearms dealer.

So it looks like it does in fact require a background check. Nice try though.

[MrBenchley]

68. It's called a newspaper...

You konnw, that thing that has real information...

It can be differentiated from right wing cesspools like Newsmax, CNS, the Washington Times,, etc., which contain mostly propaganda and lies.

[BullDozer]

64. Try some facts next time

Nothing like having a flat out liar as your source

"As SooToday.com reported earlier today, the Stinger Pen Gun (shown) can be bought for US$250 without any kind of background check"

http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/full_story.asp?StoryNumber=5278

All handgun sales in Michigan require a background check and police approval.

"The state requires a criminal background check be done prior to the purchase of handguns at gun shows (a police-issued permit is required for all handgun sales). "
http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.asp?state=mi#standards

Under state law, every handgun transfer requires that the buyer have either a handgun purchase license (one per weapon) or a license to carry a concealed handgun. Sections 28.422(1), (5) and 28.422a; see the Michigan Carrying Concealed Weapons section. Mich. Comp. Laws § 28.422(1), (5). The criteria for obtaining a handgun purchase license are outlined in the Michigan Background Checks section.

Once a handgun purchase license is issued, 3 copies are delivered to the applicant by the licensing authority (i.e., local law enforcement). Section 28.422(4). When the actual handgun sale is made, the seller shall fill out the license forms describing the handgun, listing the date of sale, and indicating that the handgun was sold to the licensee. Section 28.422(5). Both the seller and the licensee must sign the license forms. Id. The seller may retain a copy of the license as a record of the sale, and the licensee shall return the other 2 copies to local law enforcement within 10 days (one copy is retained by local law enforcement as the official record for 6 years, and the other is forwarded to the state police within 48 hours of its receipt). Id. and section 28.422(6).

http://www.firearmslawcenter.org/content/michigan.asp#Licensingofgunpurchasers

Applications for a handgun purchase license are processed through local law enforcement, which in turn use NICS and other databases to verify that prospective purchasers are not prohibited from possessing a handgun. Section 28.422(3). Handgun purchase licenses qualify as an alternative to the Brady Act background check, meaning that such licensees are not subject to an additional background check at the point of sale. Under federal law, persons who have been issued state permits to purchase or possess firearms are exempt from point of sale background checks if those permits were issued within the previous five years in the state in which the transfer is to take place, and after an authorized government official has verified that possession of a firearm would not be unlawful. 18 U.S.C. § 922(t)(3). See the ATF chart outlining permits that qualify as Brady Act alternatives.

"Josh Sugarmann, the Violence Policy Centre's executive director, describes the Stinger Pen Gun as "a clear threat to public safety and law enforcement."

Yes the VPC that wants all handguns banned so why am I suprised that they are all in an uproar over what is in fact just another handgun.

A single shot handgun no less and not a particularly powerful one in any of it's chamberings so they can't complain about devastating firepower (whatever the hell that is supposed to be) or that it will as Tom Diaz said when Smith & Wesson introduced their new 500 chambering create "a new order of threat to law enforcement".

[MrBenchley]

69. I put up some FACTS, dozer...

which is why you had to counter with nonsense and spin.

[demsrule4life]

70. Guess the cease fire is over

:) just trying to get number 800 in.

[BullDozer]

71. Some facts such as

http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/full_story.asp?StoryNumber=5278
"Soo-made weaponry worries Washington gun lobby"

Well, hell yes the {anti}gun lobby is worried about any gun in anyone's hands but their own.

Too bad the ATF says it's a legal pistol no matter how much screaming and crying the gun banners do about it. SO they have to resort to desperation such as this.

Stinger's pen and knife guns can be re-classified tomorrow to protect public safety on the street, in our offices, and in the air," Sugarmann says.

That's right Josh you gun banning psycho if you can get the BATF(E) to make a bureaucratic judgment you can get something effectively banned, that's exactly the thing we need in this country is to have career bureaucrats effectively making and imposing laws. NOT!


which is why you had to counter with nonsense and spin.

Quote that of mine which you think is in inaccurate.

I showed your source to be caught in a flat out lie.

Face it your posting of this article shows just how two-faced and desperate the antigun forces are, now they want to claim that a slow to get into action single shot pistol is too dangerous, although the BATF(E) disagrees, to be sold to regular people and it should be regulated to the degree that machinegun and 40mm grenade launchers are.

They're hyperbolic propaganda has evolved from "You'll shoot your eye out kid" to "They'll be shooting down satellites with those things!"

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

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[MrBenchley]

73. Gee dozer....

"a slow to get into action single shot pistol"
Makes one wonder who would possibly want such a thing...and what for.

[BullDozer]

74. Your own source

Makes one wonder who would possibly want such a thing...and what for

It might make the gunbanning freaks wonder that, so that they can invent a fantasy reason to try and ban anything that even sounds gun like.

"Advertising for Stinger's 'undercover' weaponry seems largely targeted at two groups: off-duty police officers and collectors of unusual firearms."
http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/full_story.asp?StoryNumber=5273

[MrBenchley]

75. Gee, dozer...

Don't they know it's "a slow to get into action single shot pistol"....

Of course no one would ever want to shoot somebody else with such a thing.....(snicker)

[BullDozer]

76. Still waiting

Let us know when there is a crime spree that you can directly attribute to these legal pistols and then we can all watch you dance in the victims blood.

That crime spree should happen if what your buddy Josh Sugarman claims is true and these pistols are "a clear threat to public safety and law enforcement."
http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/full_story.asp?StoryNumber=5278

Otherwise you and Josh(ban all handguns right now)Sugarman can just keep up with your combination chicken little and goldilocks act.

I won't hold my breathe sine you have yet to back you your claim that "which is why you had to counter with nonsense and spin," Because you can't.

Quote that of mine which you think is inaccurate.

[MrBenchley]

77. Too too funny...

You mean you think we actually have to wait until the blood starts flowing before we realize a gun concealed in a pen sold without background checks is a BAD idea?

"you and Josh(ban all handguns right now)Sugarman can just keep up with your combination chicken little and goldilocks act."
And you can keep peddling the lies of John AshKKKroft, Ted Nugent, Larry Pratt, Pat Buchanan, Sean Hannity, Tom DeLay and David Duke.

The air smells much better over here.

[BullDozer]

78. Where are those?

You mean you think we actually have to wait until the blood starts flowing before we realize a gun concealed in a pen sold without background checks is a BAD idea?

In what fantasy world do you get to legally buy a pistol from a dealer without a background check? Are you just going to pass on the lies of your source?

And yes for a gun thats been classified as a pistol by the BATF(E) since 1991 you damn well should be able to point to "flowing blood" if it's as dangerous as Josh would have stupid people belive.

The air smells much better over here.

Even with your constant pantloads? I somwhow doubt the quality of your air.

[MrBenchley]

79. Too TOO funny

<sarcasm>Yeah, that's right, dozer, the newspaper is lying....</sarcasm>

Of course you also think John AshKKKroft is honest....

[RoeBear]

80. I called a gun dealer today...

...and asked him about the pen gun. He was familiar with it. I asked if I would have to get a background check, he said yes and laughed. I asked why the chuckle. He said because its considered a handgun.

Let me add: if you don't believe me call a gun dealer in your state.

[MrBenchley]

81. That's so sweet, roe....

"I asked if I would have to get a background check, he said yes and laughed. I asked why the chuckle."

[RoeBear]

82. Well thanks Benchley...

...you're always pretty sweet too!

[RoeBear]

93. I'm ready to step into the cesspool now...

...WTF did that mean?

[BullDozer]

83. Try the truth

When the newspaer states ""As SooToday.com reported earlier today, the Stinger Pen Gun (shown) can be bought for US$250 without any kind of background check"

http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/full_story.asp?StoryNumber=5278
they are in fact lying, plain and simple even you should be able to grasp that.

All handgun sales in Michigan require a background check and police approval.

"The state requires a criminal background check be done prior to the purchase of handguns at gun shows (a police-issued permit is required for all handgun sales). "
http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.asp?state=mi#standards

Under state law, every handgun transfer requires that the buyer have either a handgun purchase license (one per weapon) or a license to carry a concealed handgun. Sections 28.422(1), (5) and 28.422a; see the Michigan Carrying Concealed Weapons section. Mich. Comp. Laws § 28.422(1), (5). The criteria for obtaining a handgun purchase license are outlined in the Michigan Background Checks section.

Once a handgun purchase license is issued, 3 copies are delivered to the applicant by the licensing authority (i.e., local law enforcement). Section 28.422(4). When the actual handgun sale is made, the seller shall fill out the license forms describing the handgun, listing the date of sale, and indicating that the handgun was sold to the licensee. Section 28.422(5). Both the seller and the licensee must sign the license forms. Id. The seller may retain a copy of the license as a record of the sale, and the licensee shall return the other 2 copies to local law enforcement within 10 days (one copy is retained by local law enforcement as the official record for 6 years, and the other is forwarded to the state police within 48 hours of its receipt). Id. and section 28.422(6).

http://www.firearmslawcenter.org/content/michigan.asp#Licensingofgunpurchasers

Applications for a handgun purchase license are processed through local law enforcement, which in turn use NICS and other databases to verify that prospective purchasers are not prohibited from possessing a handgun. Section 28.422(3). Handgun purchase licenses qualify as an alternative to the Brady Act background check, meaning that such licensees are not subject to an additional background check at the point of sale. Under federal law, persons who have been issued state permits to purchase or possess firearms are exempt from point of sale background checks if those permits were issued within the previous five years in the state in which the transfer is to take place, and after an authorized government official has verified that possession of a firearm would not be unlawful. 18 U.S.C. § 922(t)(3). See the ATF chart outlining permits that qualify as Brady Act alternatives.



'Of course you also think John AshKKKroft is honest.... "

When it comes to the issue of guns, I trust him a hell of alot more than I'd ever even think about trusting you.

[MrBenchley]

84. Been there, done that...

[BullDozer]

85. Yeah sure

and if you bothered to read and comprehend you'd know that your source is lying it's ass off about not needing a background check.

That's the fact jack. Prove it otherwise.

[MrBenchley]

86. Been there, done that

And ask me again whether I think it's the source or the RKBA "enthusiasts" here who's lying.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BullDozer]

89. Find it

And ask me again whether I think it's the source or the RKBA "enthusiasts" here who's lying.

Show me where in Michigan law, since that's where your lying source is located, it says that one can legally purchase a pistol without having submitted to a background check.

http://michiganlegislature.org/law/mileg.asp?page=getObject&objName=mcl-28-422&userid=

28.422 License to purchase, carry, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.
Sec. 2.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not purchase, carry, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.

(2) A person who brings a pistol into this state who is on leave from active duty with the armed forces of the United States or who has been discharged from active duty with the armed forces of the United States shall obtain a license for the pistol within 30 days after his or her arrival in this state.

(3) The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States. An applicant is qualified if all of the following circumstances exist:

(a) The person is not subject to an order or disposition for which he or she has received notice and an opportunity for a hearing, and which was entered into the law enforcement information network pursuant to any of the following:

(i) Section 464a(1) of the mental health code, Act No. 258 of the Public Acts of 1974, being section 330.1464a of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(ii) Section 444a(1) of the revised probate code, Act No. 642 of the Public Acts of 1978, being section 700.444a of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(iii) Section 2950(9) of the revised judicature act of 1961, Act No. 236 of the Public Acts of 1961, being section 600.2950 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(iv) Section 2950a(7) of Act No. 236 of the Public Acts of 1961, being section 600.2950a of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(v) Section 14(7) of chapter 84 of the Revised Statutes of 1846, being section 552.14 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(vi) Section 6b(5) of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, Act No. 175 of the Public Acts of 1927, being section 765.6b of the Michigan Compiled Laws, if the order has a condition imposed pursuant to section 6b(3) of chapter V of Act No. 175 of the Public Acts of 1927.

(vii) Section 16b(1) of chapter IX of Act No. 175 of the Public Acts of 1927, being section 769.16b of the Michigan Compiled Laws.


(b) The person is 18 years of age or older or, if the seller is licensed pursuant to section 923 of title 18 of the United States Code, 18 U.S.C. 923, is 21 years of age or older.

(c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state.

(d) A felony charge against the person is not pending at the time of application.

(e) The person is not prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving, or distributing a firearm under section 224f of the Michigan penal code, Act No. 328 of the Public Acts of 1931, being section 750.224f of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(f) The person has not been adjudged insane in this state or elsewhere unless he or she has been adjudged restored to sanity by court order.

(g) The person is not under an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness.

(h) The person has not been adjudged legally incapacitated in this state or elsewhere. This subdivision does not apply to a person who has had his or her legal capacity restored by order of the court.

(i) The person correctly answers 70% or more of the questions on a basic pistol safety review questionnaire approved by the basic pistol safety review board and provided to the individual free of charge by the licensing authority. If the person fails to correctly answer 70% or more of the questions on the basic pistol safety review questionnaire, the licensing authority shall inform the person of the questions he or she answered incorrectly and allow the person to attempt to complete another basic pistol safety review questionnaire. The person shall not be allowed to attempt to complete more than 2 basic pistol safety review questionnaires on any single day. The licensing authority shall allow the person to attempt to complete the questionnaire during normal business hours on the day the person applies for his or her license.


(4) Applications for licenses under this section shall be signed by the applicant under oath upon forms provided by the director of the department of state police. Licenses to purchase, carry, or transport pistols shall be executed in triplicate upon forms provided by the director of the department of state police and shall be signed by the licensing authority. Three copies of the license shall be delivered to the applicant by the licensing authority.

(5) Upon the sale of the pistol, the seller shall fill out the license forms describing the pistol sold, together with the date of sale, and sign his or her name in ink indicating that the pistol was sold to the licensee. The licensee shall also sign his or her name in ink indicating the purchase of the pistol from the seller. The seller may retain a copy of the license as a record of the sale of the pistol. The licensee shall return 2 copies of the license to the licensing authority within 10 days following the purchase of the pistol.

(6) One copy of the license shall be retained by the licensing authority as an official record for a period of 6 years. The other copy of the license shall be forwarded by the licensing authority within 48 hours to the director of the department of state police. A license is void unless used within 10 days after the date of its issue.

(7) This section does not apply to the purchase of pistols from wholesalers by dealers regularly engaged in the business of selling pistols at retail, or to the sale, barter, or exchange of pistols kept solely as relics, curios, or antiques not made for modern ammunition or permanently deactivated. This section does not prevent the transfer of ownership of pistols that are inherited if the license to purchase is approved by the commissioner or chief of police, sheriff, or their authorized deputies, and signed by the personal representative of the estate or by the next of kin having authority to dispose of the pistol.

(8) The licensing authority shall provide a basic pistol safety brochure to each applicant for a license under this section before the applicant answers the basic pistol safety review questionnaire. A basic pistol safety brochure shall contain, but is not limited to providing, information on all of the following subjects:

(a) Rules for safe handling and use of pistols.

(b) Safe storage of pistols.

(c) Nomenclature and description of various types of pistols.

(d) The responsibilities of owning a pistol.


(9) The basic pistol safety brochure shall be supplied in addition to the safety pamphlet required by section 9b.

(10) The basic pistol safety brochure required in subsection (8) shall be produced by a national nonprofit membership organization that provides voluntary pistol safety programs that include training individuals in the safe handling and use of pistols.

(11) A person who forges any matter on an application for a license under this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.

(12) A licensing authority shall implement this section during all of the licensing authority's normal business hours and shall set hours for implementation that allow an applicant to use the license within the time period set forth in subsection (6).


Well? Where is it in Michigan law that which will back up the claims of your source that you are holding up as to be true?

[Fescue4u]

88. Only a Fool or a Liar would say that no background check

is required to buy this pistol.

If one is saying that no background check is necessary, ask yourself, "Which are you, a fool, or a liar"

[beevul]

90. Chuckle

I can't believe this thread is still going...LOL

"Sniper pens flooding our streets....:argh: it will be the WILD WEST all over again!!:scared: ....They can shoot sitting planes:nuke:"

OR

When the pen truly IS mightier than the sword:).....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


ahem....chuckle

cough...snicker:evilgrin:

I apologize, but this whole Thread is COMICAL. Makes me laugh:)

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

91. What is funny

Is that there is someone out there that thinks that this sniper pen is a clear threat to public safety and law enforcement

Well actually, coming from the same people that think that an assault rifle is so dangerous because it is "meant to be spray fired from the hip", this pen gun with a 2 inch barrel and no sights at all should be just about as inaccurate as "spray-firing" from the hip and therefore just as dangerous. I would be more worried about the guy with a derringer.

[beevul]

92. I know it

Its just ....

Its like...

Panicincitementmode1 doesn't work, therefore disengage, and engage Panicincitementmode2, rinserepeatescalatingnumerically....

And about a pen gun? Particularly one as close to being the size of a mag-lite, as a bic pen?

Really, I didn't even comment on this thread initially, because it was SO LAUGHABLE on its face. After even further debunking...its just......PRICELESS.

I believe your "spray-firing" example is spot on, and falls right in line with the totally slapstick nature of the whole pen-pantload-assault-rifle-askmenext-nobackgroundcheckrequired-whoyoutryingtokid-sniper-sanepeople-antiaircraft- argument.

Chuckle. Good humor for the holiday season and thats ok.:)

"I would be more worried about the guy with a derringer."-WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

Yeah, they would be able to aim a bit more precisely, and have 2 shots without reloading.......DOH!! SHHHH,otherwise we'll be hearing about assault deringers, how anyone can buy a new one without a background check, and how badly our streets will be flooded with them!:eyes: