Florida man shoots and kills fianceé after mistaking her for intruder

[Mr. Sparkle]

John Tabutt thought his fianceé was in bed next to him, when in fact she was down range from his pistol

A Florida man shot and killed his fianceé early Friday morning after mistaking her for an intruder.

"I thought I had an intruder in the house and I shot the intruder, but the intruder is my wife," John Tabutt, 62, told emergency dispatchers in Winter Springs, Florida.

Tabutt shot his fianceé, 62 year-old Nancy Dinsmore, in the chest and she died soon after. He told police he thought she was in bed next to him during the episode. The couple were to wed Saturday.

"We're still trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together," Winter Springs police chief Kevin Brunelle told CBS news.

Brunelle said prosecutors would ultimately determine whether to file charges in the shooting.

The case is unbelievably tragic. But here's some perspective: The risk of homicide is three times higher in homes with firearms, according to a 1993 study in the New England Journal of Medicine.

The Supreme Court is likely this year to eviscerate state and local gun control laws like a Chicago ban on the sale of handguns within city limits. And gun enthusiasts have been stocking up on weapons and ammunition, fearful that Obama will try to take their guns away, although in two years on the campaign trail and 11 months in office he has made no pledges to tighten gun control.

Gun rights and gun ownership advocates frequently ask, "If someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, wouldn't you rather be able to defend yourself, or wait for the police to ride to the rescue?"

Let's assume the police wouldn't have made such an awful mistake as Tabutt's.

Those are the types of Americans who are fighting to protect these guys' easy access to hand guns.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/deadlineusa/2009/oct/12/usa-gun-crime

[wtmusic]

1. People don't kill guns, bullets do.

Just trying to keep things interesting.

[Vinnie From Indy]

2. How many spouses get away with murder using this excuse?

In essence, this guy expects folks to believe that he heard an intruder and rather than look beside him to see if his wife was present grabbed his gun and started blasting away. I don't buy it!

I heard one years ago where a guy killed either his wife or his mother-in-law and claimed that it was a case of mistaken identity. He thought she was a large raccoon that had gotten inside the house.

[wtmusic]

5. I don't see a motive here

If he really didn't want her in his life he could break off the marriage, although there could be a secondary motive.

[jeepnstein]

6. Uhh,,,

Yeah, I'd probably want to talk to the guy a couple of times and do a thorough crime scene reconstruction on this one.

I have a friend who solved a case that was an "accidental" shooting that way a while back. Turns out it was straight up murder. He still has the reconstruction on display in his office as a reminder to always be thorough. On the face of it, the guy's story sounded good. The problem was that none of the physical evidence supported what he said happened.

I know another case where a kid was "accidentally" shot with an unloaded gun. Ten years later the shooter was convicted of a string of murders and sex crimes. Yeah, the guy turned out to be a serial killer. Makes one wonder about that "accident".

It pays to be thorough.

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. Actually, I DO buy it.

You wake up groggy and afraid, and grab the pistol off the bedside table. Still half-asleep, it would be easy to think your partner is beside you.

Have you ever reached over and shut off your alarm without being aware you did it?

This alarm went bang.

[Vinnie From Indy]

13. Sure, it could be possible that the guy's scenario is true

Any investigator worth his salt will examine the evidence and statements and go from there. It should be pointed out that there are some crucial questions that must be addressed surrounding the story from the get go.

Reaching over and shutting off the alarm is hardly the equivalent of waking up, grabbing your loaded gun and killing someone. One would think that the normal bodily functions would have kicked in that this guy was pumping adrenaline throughout his system as he prepared to defend his life. I doubt he was still "groggy". That is just one simple one glaring anomaly that any investigator worth his salt would think of immediately after hearing this guy's story. Normal people do not act this way. His story defies biology right off the bat.

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. What is 'normal bodily function'?

I don't own a gun, and if I did I certainly would not keep it next to my bed because of the very real danger of just this sort of thing. I am, biologically, a 'night' person. I am virtually non-functional in the early hours of the day, and only start hitting my stride by 11am or so. My intellectual peak is @ 7pm. The type that gets up at 6am, and peak at 10am just baffle me. That type can be wakened in the middle of the night and come to full consciousness immediately. Me, I once put a huge hole in my side by getting out of bed to answer the phone at 7am - I heard it ring and stepped out of bed not remembering that I was sleeping on a platform bed 8' off the ground (long story). The point is, I'd been using that bed, in that apartment, for 8 months. I was very used to it. It was after a full night sleep, having gone to bed sober.

A 'normal' person would have never done that. 'Normal bodily function' would have made them aware they were stepping into empty space. But that's not normal for me. I simply moved before I was awake enough to know what I was doing.

Some people are like that. About 15% of the population, IIRC.

[Vinnie From Indy]

20. Sure! All those things you offer could be true in this man's case

My central point is that any seasoned investigator will know that this man's story is highly suspect because it is out of the norm. Normal people, the vast majority of people in fact, would have experienced a major influx of adrenaline into their bloodstream at the prospect of defending their life from an unknown, potential attacker. It is hard wired into us. Adrenaline is an extremely powerful substance and if this man was truly in fear of his life, his heart would have been pounding like a freight train. This man had the presence of mind to wake, determine there was a threat, grab his gun, click off the safety, get out of bed, walk to the doorway, determine which direction to shoot and then squeeze off a round in that direction. No, I'll bet you that police are highly skeptical of this guy's story as well.

Your example in your case leaves out the vital detail that when you fell out of bed, you were not in fear of your life from an attack. Huge difference in scenarios.

[Demobrat]

3. There's only one way to be safe from guns.

And that's to make sure that you don't have guns or people with guns in your life. People who own guns want to use them. It's best to just shun them.

[izquierdista]

7. With an attitude like that

You'll not win a lot of friends here. But you're welcome to move in next door to me and replace the idiot that has to shoot up the woods behind us every weekend for target practice.

[Demobrat]

16. I'm not looking to be friends with gun owners.

We can't pick our neighbors, but we can pick our friends and there are plenty of people in the world who aren't afraid to go through life unarmed. Let the gun nuts hang together and stick to shooting one another. Nobody will miss them.

[armueller2001]

18. Bettter not

be friends with any police officers, security guards, or members of the armed forces.

[pneutin]

22. and better not be friends with...

Dianne Feinstein, Sylvester Stallone, Sean Penn, or the other hypocritical gun-control activists that own guns and concealed carry permits themselves.

[spin]

23. Here's a list of notable people who have concealed carry licenses...

http://www.nndb.com/event/349/000172830/

Note: I can't vouch for the accuracy of this list, however I've seen many names repeated on other lists.

[Demobrat]

42. I couldn't care less how many "notable" people carry guns.

As long as I don't have to have anything to do with them.

[Demobrat]

35. Noted.

Not a problem.

[Demobrat]

34. I can do that.

No prob.

[armueller2001]

21. People who own

seat belts want to get in car accidents. People who own fire extinguishers want to light their homes on fire so they can use them.

[Demobrat]

37. As long as they hurt nobody but themselves

they should go for it.

[rd_kent]

26. Yeah, shun them...thats smart thinking....

you should shun this forum too

[Demobrat]

36. It works for me.

Especially since most people I know are not cowards.

[rd_kent]

38. Whats your point?

or are you trying to imply something?

[Demobrat]

39. The point is that there are plenty of people in the world

who are not afraid to go through life unarmed. Therefore there is absolutely no reason to have a gun or people who feel a need for guns in one's life, should one not care to.

[rd_kent]

40. OK, but it seems you are implying that anyone who chooses to own a gun

is a coward? Am I reading you right?

[Name removed]

41. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[X_Digger]

48. Non Sequitur - literally! (the conclusion does not follow)

"The point is that there are plenty of people in the world who are not afraid to go through life unarmed. Therefore there is absolutely no reason to have a gun.."

Let's analyze- The conclusion: "Therefore there is absolutely no reason to have a gun.." does not follow from the premise: "The point is that there are plenty of people in the world who are not afraid to go through life unarmed."

If 'plenty of people believed' that fire wouldn't burn them, would that mean that there's no reason to have a fire extinguisher?

If 'plenty of people believed' they would never be in a car accident, would that mean there's no reason to wear seat belts?

If 'plenty of people believed' that the world was flat, would that mean there's no reason for a globe?

If.. well, you get my point.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

43. You don't have any friends who are police officers?

[TPaine7]

45. True, there is only one way, but not the one you think.

The only way to be safe from guns is to commit suicide--with something other than a gun, of course. You will then be safe from guns.

Of course if you are a physics genius on the order of a, say, Leonardo da Vinci, and can travel to an uninhabited planet where no non geniuses can follow, that would work too.

[cabluedem]

54. Amen to that. Thats exactly what most progressives do. No guns wanted or needed. nt

[crim son]

4. There is nothing puzzling about this.

A couple days ago somebody on this forum was very condescending of his/her criticism of another poster who admitted being fearful of somebody being fearful or excited enough to shoot off a gun irresponsibly. The poster was told, You do realize how rare an occurence that is, right?

I guess this is just another one of those incredibly rare shootings that we can write off as a small tragedy, reload our weapons and march on. I mean, it was just another woman, just his fiancee. SARCASM.

[TheWraith]

24. There's less than a thousand accidental shooting deaths in the US per year.

In a country of 307 million people, that IS absurdly rare, and it's been going down for decades. It's fewer people than are killed every year by anorexia. It's less people than are killed by the flu every ten days.

So what's your solution, exactly? Get rid of guns because once in a great while an accident happens? Then we'd better also get rid of cars, ladders, stairs, tall buildings, etcetera, and we all live in padded caves.

[crim son]

25. For three thousand dead, we went to war.

As for the rest of your argument, I don't like guns and would like to see huge changes in the law with respect to who can carry, with wha license, and where. Of course I'm not blind; guns aren't going anywhere except into more people's pockets and homes, so I'm content to point out the evil shit they contribute to.

[rd_kent]

27. You have more reason to be afraid of drowning in your bathtub than getting shot.

Next strawman......

[Euromutt]

30. Maybe it doesn't seem that rare because...

...this is at least the third thread on this subject. An inattentive person might be forgiven for thinking this is a frequent occurrence, when in fact, it's just that you're seeing a lot of coverage of a one-off event.

[jgraz]

33. I'm sure you point this out for every "granny shoots burglar" post

Since it's much less likely that a gun will be used on an intruder than on a member of the household.

[imdjh]

9. The Guardian, isn't that the paper which deleted Jewish Nobel prize winners?

[wtmusic]

11. If that's what they set out to do, they did a crappy job

They also included Alfred Fried, Tobias Michael Carel Asser, Rene Cassin, Henry Kissinger, Elie Wiesel, and Joseph Rotblat.

[baldguy]

12. And that pertains to this story how?

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1254861912988&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

In a statement on Friday, the newspaper blamed the mistake on a "technical issue," saying the names was accidently omitted.

"For the Nobel Peace Prize winners list, we used data from nobelprize.org. However, there was a technical issue during the data transfer from the site, which meant that many of the names of the joint winners of the Nobel Peace Prize were accidentally omitted, although the country of origin of the winners was not. This has now been corrected," a Guardian spokesperson said.

The article's author, Simon Rogers, also posted an entry online: "It's my fault, I'm afraid. I decided where there was more than one winner to put the joint one in the second column. Unfortunately, this caused a few problems, which we've now rectified. Please let me know if you spot any other missing names."

[jgraz]

31. Anything to protect the Second Amendment binky

Who cares that guns are more likely to kill a family member than an intruder? Look over here!! There's missing Jews!

[armueller2001]

47. Is that your opinion

or is that a fact?

[jgraz]

49. You can't tell opinion from fact?

You'll fit in well here. :eyes:

[armueller2001]

50. Well, I was just curious

if the statement about a gun being more likely to kill a family member than an intruder was a proven fact or was just something that people parrot without knowing the research behind it.

[jgraz]

51. Ah, yes. This is a fact.

I'm too lazy to look up the links tonight, but they're cited many, many times on this forum.

[armueller2001]

52. I'd be interested in seeing

the source if someone could find that!

[Jim Sagle]

55. But are you interested ENUF to go find it yourself? Aye, THAT's the question.

;)

[GreenStormCloud]

57. It is from the Kellerman study, and has been shot down numerous times on this forum.

Kellerman counts only gun fatalities. If the resident scares away a criminal, by drawing his gun, then that doesn't make it to the Kewllerman study.

[armueller2001]

58. Upon doing further research

and posting another thread about it, I found that the Kellerman study also does not take into account if the gun in the home was kept there or was brought there by an intruder. So, if a burglar comes in and kills your family, then that gets lumped into the "home with a gun, family members killed" group.

[GreenStormCloud]

59. True. I had forgotten about that. Thanks. N/T

[baldguy]

10. Guilty of being stupid.

Just the type we need to be armed.

[Peregrine Took]

14. An inebriated neighbor broke into our condo by mistake - 'glad we didn't

shoot him! We just locked ourselves in the bedroom and called the police.

He sure was embarrassed but they still arrested him.

[Demobrat]

17. I had the same thing happen once.

I just turned him around and sent him back out the door. The next day he sent me flowers.

[jeepnstein]

19. One of the worst evenings of my life...

involved the aftermath of a buddy showing up at my house at 2:00 AM shouting DINSDALE!!! DINSDALE!!! at the top of his lungs. I reached for my Hi Power at first but threw a claw hammer at him instead. My aim was true and he dropped like a bad habit. Much hilarity ensued after he fell down a flight of stairs and smashed some furniture.

In the fog of a deep sleep, I almost didn't recognize what was going on around me. You wake up and have a giant hedgehog named Spiny Norman calling out for you and well, things just don't seem quite right.

[friendly_iconoclast]

28. Tough day of threatening the kids?

It could been worse, he could have been armed with ....sarcasm.

[Euromutt]

29. Now I need to know...

Did you lay Stanley Baldwin?

[jeepnstein]

46. Watch out...

I'll nail your head to the floor.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

44. According to many here that is impossible because all gun owners are blood thirsty killers...

waiting and praying for the opportunity to shoot someone preferably a minority of some type. I think I got their usual meme right.

[jgraz]

32. You are clearly a wimp who should turn in your testicles

Real men rush in guns blazing. The thought of you taking a sensible, non-violent approach to an intruder should sicken every red-blooded Amurkin.


(Yes, :sarcasm:. It's sometimes hard to tell on this forum)

[cabluedem]

53. He needed the gun so he could take his fiancee to the movie theater. nt

[rrneck]

56. Heh!

:rofl: