Nebraska considers "castle doctrine" ...

[spin]

LINCOLN — Law enforcement officials shot holes Thursday in a proposal that would give citizens more legal leeway to defend themselves with a gun, saying it was unnecessary and would increase shootings.

“We have enough people in the state killing each other. This will make it easier,” Howard County Attorney Bob Sivick said. “I don’t think that’s good public policy.”

***snip***

Proponents of the bill, which included the National Rifle Association, said current state law might force people who killed someone in self-defense on their own property or car to defend themselves again against manslaughter or murder charges or against a civil lawsuit.

“Rights are turned around (in Nebraska). It’s up to an individual to prove they’re innocent,” Jordan Austin, an NRA lobbyist, told the Legislature’s Judiciary Committee.

Austin said 25 states have adopted “Castle Doctrine” laws such as LB 889. The name comes from the phrase “a man’s home is his castle” and refers to a person’s rights to defend his or her “castle” from intruders or deadly threats.

He said of particular concern was a requirement in Nebraska law that people must refrain from using deadly force if they can safely retreat.

While they aren’t required to retreat from their home or business, proponents said the bill would clarify that they would not have to retreat from their car or from outside their home, too.
http://www.omaha.com/article/20100204/NEWS01/702059921

Florida is one of the 25 states that have adopted "Castle Doctrine" or "Stand Your Ground" laws. So far it's proven to be successful.

Consider a quote from a 2006 New York Times article:

"Florida does not keep comprehensive records on the impact of its new law, but prosecutors and defense lawyers there agree that fewer people who claim self-defense are being charged or convicted."

This indicates that people were being tried and convicted in cases of self defense. It's astonishing that a person traumatized by a violent attack could find themselves on trial and wind up convicted.
http://hubpages.com/hub/castle-doctrine-make-my-day-law

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sui generis]

2. grin

but if you have those laws people will be a lot more reluctant to defend themselves using a gun because they might go to jail for shooting an innocent person.

:sarcasm: <----- that's a sarcasm thingie

[gorfle]

5. Please consider a more civil tone.

Hi County Worker.

In accordance with the new rules on civility in this forum, please consider a more civil tone. It is not terribly civil, nor accurate for that matter, to insinuate that people who carry firearms do so because it makes their "macho hormones rage", nor that carrying a firearm causes "your macho hormones to rage".

Many people carry a firearm for the same reason they have insurance policies, fire extinguishers, spare tires, or first-aid kits. It is simply a tool that allows one to be prepared to defend oneself.

To project some sort of sexual or sexist intent or consequence is incorrect.

I'm ok with this just as long as you go to jail for life for shooting an innocent person

There are, of course, already provisions in law and examples of this already happening. Castle Laws do not give free range for anyone to shoot anyone for anything.

[SteveM]

11. You seem to know a lot about "macho hormones rage." What's it like? nt

[sharesunited]

3. If the NRA is backing it, you KNOW it isn't wholesome.

[slackmaster]

4. Gee sharesunited, you might consider READING the bill before passing judgement

The changes would make it very similar to California's deadly force laws.

http://nebraskalegislature.gov/FloorDocs/Current/PDF/Intro/LB889.pdf

[benEzra]

8. Oh, come on, we know San Francisco is crazy right wing compared to Nebraska.

How dare you imply that Nebraska emulating California and Massachusetts wouldn't cause mass bloodshed.

:sarcasm:

[spin]

9. You paint with a broad brush, The NRA does support the NICS background check ...

which has proven successful.

Sunday, June 10, 2007

Senior Democrats have reached agreement with the National Rifle Association on what could be the first federal gun-control legislation since 1994, a measure to significantly strengthen the national system that checks the backgrounds of gun buyers.

The sensitive talks began in April, days after a mentally ill gunman killed 32 students and teachers at Virginia Tech University. The shooter, Seung Hui Cho, had been judicially ordered to submit to a psychiatric evaluation, which should have disqualified him from buying handguns. But the state of Virginia never forwarded that information to the federal National Instant Check System (NICS), and the massacre exposed a loophole in the 13-year-old background-check program.

Under the agreement, participating states would be given monetary enticements for the first time to keep the federal background database up to date, as well as penalties for failing to comply.

To sign on to the deal, the powerful gun lobby won significant concessions from Democratic negotiators in weeks of painstaking talks. Individuals with minor infractions in their pasts could petition their states to have their names removed from the federal database, and about 83,000 military veterans, put into the system by the Department of Veterans Affairs in 2000 for alleged mental health reasons, would have a chance to clean their records. The federal government would be permanently barred from charging gun buyers or sellers a fee for their background checks. In addition, faulty records such as duplicative names or expunged convictions would have to be scrubbed from the database.

"The NRA worked diligently with the concerns of gun owners and law enforcement in mind to make a . . . system that's better for gun owners and better for law enforcement," said House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman John D. Dingell (D-Mich.), a former NRA board member, who led the talks. emphasis added
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/09/AR2007060901080.html

The NRA also trains police. Something the Brady Campaign does not do.

Year after year, the National Rifle Association's Law Enforcement Activities Division (LEAD) trains thousands of our nation's law enforcement officers to become law enforcement firearm instructors. This training helps law enforcement agencies in the city, state, and federal sectors, as well as nuclear security forces, military units, and security contractors, do what is needed to keep our country safe.

For the sixth consecutive year, LEAD will have trained a record number of law enforcement firearm instructors in the tactical use of handguns, shotguns, patrol rifles, select-fire, and long-range rifles. Police instructors trained by NRA are offered classroom and dynamic range instruction in order to help them develop and conduct safe, effective, and reality-based firearm training for their own departments and agencies. This year the NRA will have trained 2,061 law enforcement instructors.

"Every year, the NRA is proud to say that we have helped keep the public safe by providing state-of-the-art training to law enforcement instructors," said Kayne Robinson, Executive Director of NRA's General Operations Division. "This instruction in firearm safety and police protection doesn't end with the NRA. After receiving NRA training, these law enforcement personnel are then able to go back and teach their fellow officers what they have learned. It's a continuous cycle that will help to keep criminals off the street."
http://www.nra.org/Article.aspx?id=9973

For a second year in a row, the National Rifle Association's Law Enforcement Activities Division (LEAD) trained a record number of public and private Law Enforcement Firearm Instructors from the ranks of federal, state, and municipal police departments, as well as from the military. These instructors are now helping to train law enforcement officers across the United States and in places as distant as Iraq and Afghanistan.

"Over 2,000 public and private law enforcement and military instructors received NRA firearms training or attended NRA-organized armorer schools in 2004," said Ron Kirkland, Director of the Law Enforcement Activities Division. "This instructor program helps improve the training officers receive and makes a direct impact on keeping officers safe," he added.

The Law Enforcement Activities Division of the NRA has trained over 50,000 Law Enforcement Firearm Instructors in police departments and the military since 1960, and over 12,000 NRA Certified Instructors are currently training police officers nationwide. NRA Certified Instructor programs are recognized by the American Society for Law Enforcement Training, the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors, and the International Law Enforcement Educators and Trainers Association. emphasis added
http://www.nra.org/Article.aspx?id=1693

Many instructors who teach firearms safety, hunters safety courses and concealed weapons classes are NRA certified.

Such classes significantly reduce firearm accidents and train individuals with concealed carry licenses to carry and if necessary use their weapons in a safe and legal manner. The concealed carry classes contribute significantly to the extremely low level of the misuse of firearms by those with carry permits.

[farmout rightarm]

6. Why is that? I recently joined the NRA after owning guns for over 60 years

and was never a member before. So what's so awful about them?

[sharesunited]

10. They continually take the position that more guns and ammo is an absolute good.

They continually promote use of guns as a self defense panacea, without regard to the detrimental effects of proliferation and easy access.

In short, they love guns more than they love their country or Jesus.

[farmout rightarm]

13. Really? I read through their materials and never got those impressions.

As far as the Jesus thing goes, I'm an atheist and don't give a ratzass about him either...I did serve to "defend" my country though...and had guns issued to me for that. It's all very confusing.
\

[sharesunited]

14. All very confusing is why we say Welcome To DU!

[spin]

18. Anybody who is familiar with the NRA knows ...

that they don't advocate that everybody should own a gun.

The do believe that those who want to own a firearm should be allowed to, assuming they are honest, mentally stable individuals.

Basically they support the Second Amendment.

The poster you replied to likes to exaggerate.

I don't believe that the NRA cares what religion its members are or if they are atheist. Gender, race and sexual orientation are also irrelevant.

[farmout rightarm]

20. Thanks, that is pretty much what I was thinking. Up here, not owning a gun is kinda odd.

I mean rare, not necessarily strange...and no I never bought into that nonsense that Obama wanted to take our guns, even though there are a few around here who did believe that a while back. But that's pretty much
down the tubes now, the stores have plenty of ammunition and nobody I know is hoarding it like some guys were doing a year ago.

[spin]

21. I notice the same thing where I live.

Last year ammo was flying off the shelves. It looks like people have finally built up a large stockpile and decided to spend their money elsewhere.

[X_Digger]

22. 'cept for .380. grr ;) n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

24. .380 seems to be rapidly becoming America's primary civilian self-defense round. N/T

[spin]

25. My son in law owns a .380 Ruger LCP ...

the weapon is light, compact and easy to carry.

The recoil is very manageable. Accuracy is adequate for a self defense weapon. With modern ammo, the weapon should be effective enough to stop an attack.

My son in law has a carry permit and carries but realizes that the chances of him ever having to use his weapon for self defense are similar to winning the lottery. But you have absolutely no chance of winning the lottery if you don't have a ticket.

Many people feel the same way. Always have a gun if there is the slightest chance that you might be in a gun fight.

If you know you are going into harms way, carry the biggest weapon you can, preferably a 12 gauge shotgun or a large caliber rifle. If you know you are walking into a potentially dangerous situation and must carry a handgun, a 40 cal or .45 acp pistol or a .357 mag revolver is the way to go.

[GreenStormCloud]

26. As engineers say, "There are no solutions, only compromises."

.380 seems to be the optimum trade-off between effectiveness and concealment. In the South and the SouthWest one just can't wear a jacket in the summerk, even at night. Often our only method of concealing is to carry in the trouser pocket, and that pretty much means wearing really baggy clothes or a .380 in the pocket.

Some trouser companies are starting to make larger pockets. Haband makes some really lightweight trousers with deep pockets that will hide a Charter Arms Pug.

On those rare occasions in which I knew that I was going into a high risk situation I carried a SIG .45.

[spin]

27. 5.11 makes a number of pants and shorts which have deep pockets ...

which are designed for weapons carry and concealment.

Law enforcement is fond of these pants. Some are designed for causal wear and look like the ubiquitous cargo pants.

http://www.511tactical.com/browse/Home/Law-Enforcement/New-Items/511-Covert-Cargo-Pant/D/30100/P/1:100:10000:11400/I/74290

[GreenStormCloud]

28. Thanks. Bookmarked the site. N/T

[spin]

29. A good place to buy 5.11 gear is ...

L.A. Police Gear at:
http://www.lapolicegear.com/5tase.html

Watch the closeouts section for some good deals, such as:
http://www.lapolicegear.com/511-tactical-covert-cargo-shorts.html

I often wear 5.11 shorts or pants and carry a S&W model 642 snub nosed revolver or a S&W Model 60 with a 3" barrel in the front pocket. I would also recommend a good belt. I like the Wilderness Instructor Belt.

The Wilderness' Original Instructor Belt is an incredibly strong belt with a specially designed "V" ring buckle. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and the marketplace is full of copies of this belt, but none can compare to the original.
We're selling the five-stitch version, which has extra stitch lines to make the belt more rigid vertically in order ot better support holsters, magazine pouches and other gear. This belt is a favorite with law enforcement, military personnel, fire fighters, paramedics, etc. Note: The 1.75" belt works best with BDUs or jeans. The 1.5" belt features a scaled-down buckle.
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23796/catid/22/The_Wilderness__039__Original_Instructor_Belt_1_75_quot_

This belt costs $39.95 and should last a lifetime.

[spin]

16. Firearms are a good tool for self defense ...

As proven by many posts in the Gungeon, firearms often are used successfully and legally to stop criminal attack.

If firearms were confiscated, many good citizens would find themselves helpless in a home invasion.

My daughter for example might have been raped or killed by the intruder who was forcing the sliding glass door to our house open, despite the fact that an alarm was sounding and there was a 60 pound black Lab in the house. (The dog was a good alarm dog but so gentle that she was useless in the situation.)

The fact that my daughter was able to point a large caliber revolver at the intruder caused him to run. No shots were fired. All ended well. Now I have two grandchildren to enjoy that may never have had a chance to be born if the intruder had been able to overpower my daughter.

As to your argument that there is "detrimental effects of proliferation and easy access", please explain this graph.



Obviously the number of firearms in this country has increased dramatically over the last few decades. Let the crime rate is down.

The oft-cited credo that more guns equal more crime is being tested by facts on the ground this year: Even as gun ownership has surged in the US in the past year, violent crime, including murder and robbery, has dropped steeply.

Add to that the fact that many experts had predicted higher crime rates as the US grinds through a difficult recession, and the discrepancy has advocates on both sides of the Second Amendment debate rushing to their ramparts.

After several years of crime rates holding relatively steady, the FBI is reporting that violent crimes – including gun crimes – dropped dramatically in the first six months of 2009, with murder down 10 percent across the US as a whole.

Concurrently, the FBI reports that gun sales – especially of assault-style rifles and handguns, two main targets of gun-control groups – are up at least 12 percent nationally since the election of President Obama, a dramatic run on guns prompted in part by so-far-unwarranted fears that Democrats in Congress and the White House will curtail gun rights and carve apart the Second Amendment.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2009/1223/More-guns-equal-more-crime-Not-in-2009-FBI-crime-report-shows.

[GreenStormCloud]

23. When in the hands of the law-abiding and trained, more guns and ammo IS a good thing. N/T

[SteveM]

12. "Wholesome." I keep thinking of whole wheat bread. nt

[GreenStormCloud]

7. Don't they ever get tired of the streets-running-with-blood argument?

Nebraska was one of the last states to get shall-issue, Jan 1, 2007. This is probably being played out with the same cast of people.

[proteus_lives]

15. I hope they get it!

All states should have the Castle Doctrine.

[spin]

17. If the trend continues, all states will have "castle doctrine". (n/t)

[proteus_lives]

19. That will be a great day!

:hi: