Here's a Tampa area desperado who knows the score.

[sharesunited]

You shoot first. You don't smile or say hi. Whomever you encounter MAY BE ARMED! Because Florida empowers its citizens to carry guns. Safety first!

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/feb/12/130810/3-shootings-1-carjacking-reported-carrollwood-area/news-breaking/

[slackmaster]

1. What a riduculous comment

Unrec for nonsense.

[rd_kent]

35. You expect anything less than ridiculous here?

[MineralMan]

2. I can't imagine that you could be any more vague.

Words are free. Use as many as you need to explain what you are trying to say. Thank you.

[sharesunited]

5. I'll be concise. More guns and the right to carry them don't make you safer.

They make shooting first the preferred and inevitable choice.

[MineralMan]

6. What part of this person being a criminal do you fail to understand?

Criminals do not, by definition, obey the law. So, what you are suggesting makes no sense whatever.

This situation was not caused by people being able to carry firearms legally. The man is a criminal, and probably a psychopath.

You offer no solution to anything.

[sharesunited]

9. Lawfully versus unlawfully is a red herring.

A red herring is something intended to divert attention from the real problem or matter at hand.

Scarcity versus abundance concerning the implement of harm. That's where the focus belongs.

[Pavulon]

12. Win the drug war, then work on a gun ban.

you have no chance. Zero, zip. No matter how much blood you walk through to make your point.

You know it is not all that hard to fabricate a weapon from base material correct?

[SteveM]

71. Yes, I wonder what Shares thinks about drug prohibition. nt

[MineralMan]

14. No, actually, it is not a red herring.

Criminals with guns often kill people. They are criminals and do not follow the normal rules of society. Non-criminals with guns rarely kill people. Those are the facts. Facts trump red herrings every time.

[sharesunited]

18. Fewer guns and rounds of ammunition to be had by ANYONE is an absolute good.

[MineralMan]

19. Such is your opinion. It is not a fact.

Opinions are just that. Mine differs from yours.

[Pavulon]

20. So is santa claus. He is really good

he will show up at your house with a miracle black box trading program that always works before any of what you want happens.

[rrneck]

26. Then

let this guy go to work on you. Let us know how well your theory holds up.

[slackmaster]

37. Except of course for government employees

You authoritarians are so transparent.

[aliendroid]

52. is this guy law inforcement

slackmaster, how do you know he's a gov employee, is he a cop?

[slackmaster]

70. I don't have any idea what he does for a living, or if he works at all

I've never claimed otherwise.

[GreenStormCloud]

56. In the past 20 years over 100 million new guns have been bought...

...and crime is down dramatically. How does that fit with your statements? You always ignore that fact.

[rrneck]

25. You are correct.

Scarcity versus abundance concerning the implement of harm. That's where the focus belongs.

What if the implement of harm is a knife, club, fists or feet?

[rrneck]

28. How's the view from that corner?

Lawfully versus unlawfully is a red herring.

Most people call that civilization.

You better head for the roundhouse now, I think you've sold enough guns for today.

[slackmaster]

36. No it isn't

The distinction is quite clear, and completely relevant in light of your attempt to conflate criminal misuse of firearms and lawful self-defense.

[Pavulon]

10. Better to die on your feet than die on your knees.

at least I get that call. You are aware that most pistol hits are not immediately fatal. So even when mortally wounded you can still fire back.

[sharesunited]

15. A daily life of survivable pistol hits is not the direction we ought be going.

Even if they are survivable, they hurt and can be crippling.

[Pavulon]

17. Like I said, when you finish up the coke ban, and enforce the hooker ban

move on to a constitutionally protected right. You will have more credibility.

Reality check, you will NEVER, EVER see a gun ban in the US. Will NEVER happen.

[rrneck]

23. Sooooooo,

What solution do you offer Alyssa Marie Aracich, the driver of the pickup, Areil Love, the clerk at the BP gas station, and Bruce Demetrius?

I don't mind shooting fish in a barrel, but do you have to make them catfish?

[sharesunited]

39. They apparently were not armed, although they could have been.

Andre Watkins behaved as though they were.

A society in which guns are encouraged makes shooting first the sensible thing to do.

Ergo, where guns are encouraged brutality is encouraged.

[rrneck]

40. Soooooooo.....

What solution do you offer them if someone assumes they are armed and assaults them with something other than a firearm?

[farmout rightarm]

44. How would one go about encouraging a gun? Mine don't pay any attention to me when

I praise or scold them. But then neither do my plants or my cats.

[rrneck]

48. They encourage YOU

They send out invisible mind control rays that overcome your sense of decency and justice causing you to go on shooting rampages and use the wrong fork at dinner.

Wear safety equipment to block the rays:

[farmout rightarm]

51. Well, drat...I guess that explains why I've blasted a hundred innocent people

in my 60 years of owning guns.


Oh, wait...that didn't happen. Hmmm.

[rrneck]

58. And you didn't use the safety equipment?

You are clearly a genetic anomoly. Give blood and help find a cure for "gun love".

I bet you still use the wrong fork at dinner. I do, if I use a fork. Most of the time I just grab handfuls of charred flesh and pick my teeth with a big ass knife. :evilgrin:

[slackmaster]

34. Intentionally blurring the distinction between criminal misuse of a firearm and lawful self-defense

Is inherently dishonest.

[tridim]

3. Disgusting. Tampa sounds like hell on Earth.

[spin]

24. I lived near that area of Tampa for 37 years...

While there were some criminals and some gangs running around it was not "hell on earth".

During that period of time, I had a lawn mower stolen from my carport and I had to run off four teenagers who were breaking into my neighbor's house and stealing his firearm collection. After the incident, my neighbor invested in a gun safe.

My biggest problem in the Town 'N Country area of Tampa was the fact that flooding was common. My house had a couple of inches of water in it twice. Fortunately, I had flood insurance. It still was a major pain in the ass to clean up and recover from.

[farmout rightarm]

31. I lived near there too, right where Woodbridge quits at Rocky creek, it was

also susceptible to flooding but hardly 'hell'...

[NewMoonTherian]

32. Worse than Chicago? n/t

[SteveM]

72. Like a certain "reverend," do ya wanna blow Tampa up with a meteorite? nt

[spin]

4. Sounds like you are advising Florida criminals to murder their victims...

that's hitting a new low for the group of posters who dislike firearms.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[farmout rightarm]

29. +10

Ain't that the truth.

[thunder rising]

16. Don't even get into it with this thread. They are the sect of guns; and guns solve everything

So, bailout and save yourself the frustration. Let them write in a vacuum.

[SteveM]

73. Yet....you are.....here. Maybe that is the source of vacuum. nt

[spin]

21. It's not "gun love" that brought this on...

Watkins has been arrested on numerous charges in the past 14 years, including battery on a pregnant female, retaliation against a witness and grand theft. His most recent arrest was in October 2008 on a charge of aggravated assault with a firearm.
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/feb/12/130810/3-shootings-1-carjacking-reported-carrollwood-area/news-breaking/

It looks like another failure of the judicial system.

Watkins had shown violent tendencies in the past. The most recent arrest for "aggravated assault with a firearm" should have taken him off the streets for the rest of his life. Had that happened, he would not have been able to exercise his "gun love".

And you were not advising Floridians that "this is what gun love brings".

Far from it.

You advised the criminal element "You shoot first. You don't smile or say hi. Whomever you encounter MAY BE ARMED! Because Florida empowers its citizens to carry guns. Safety first!"

Don't try to plaster over your statement with flowers.

[rusty_rebar]

27. taking a note from sharesunited's score.

It seems to me that this guy was emboldened by a failed criminal justice system.

sharesunited, you might have an inkling of a point if you could somehow prove that this guy would not have done this with something other then a gun, but you cannot. He could have used a knife, or an axe or any number of implements to commit these crimes.

Since he was convicted of other violent felonies before, he was not legally able to possess a firearm. Firearms laws in Florida may be lax, but they are not so lax as to allow for a violent felons possession.

Sorry, 0 points.

Show me some stories of otherwise law abiding citizens, suddenly "snapping" and taking their legally possessed firearms on shooting rampages, and you can get a point or two.

Thanks for playing though.

[Pavulon]

8. So a criminal does criminal shit. Surprise.

to bad the guy in the f-150 did not shoot him in the head. Problem solved. Wonder if insurance pays for a new interior?

[cowman]

13. You are

a fucking moron. The state of FL did not empower this POS to carry a gun. He was barred from possession of a firearm. Can't you do better than that? Oh yeah I forgot you never do any better than that

[rrneck]

33. Don't call him that - he likes it. nt

[rrneck]

22. What are you worried about?

You didn't get shot.

[farmout rightarm]

30. It looks like you are inciting criminals to commit violent acts. If that isn't illegal, it should

be. At the very least it's a vile thing to do.

[sharesunited]

41. No, I am explaining how shooting first is the natural consequence of concealed carry.

The mere PERCEPTION that anyone you encounter may be armed creates an incentive to shoot preemptively.

We can unanimously condemn the brutality of the behavior.

What we cannot do is delude ourselves into believing that more guns make us safer.

[farmout rightarm]

43. But there are more guns than ever before and yet shootings are less frequent.

Those are simple facts that completely discredit your opinion. This is like arguing with a creationist.
:eyes:

[aliendroid]

55. no dude,

the primary result of concealed carry is for them to find a new job, maybe flipping burgers

If you think concealed carry causes them to shoot first, then show me the chart that shows the massive wave of violent crime due to CC, here's the chart I'm looking at, I just don't see all the shoot first incidents going on here, but I do see the retirement of criminals. but go ahead ignore the inconvenient data that contradicts your stupid posts.

[AtheistCrusader]

66. And you know that for a fact do you?

So you interviewed the criminal? Made sure he's rational enough to think like you are projecting here?

[rd_kent]

38. In what way does this post relate to gun policy or second amendment rights

as required by the forum rules?

[aliendroid]

57. there was this one time when there was this gunshot and...

like a person was shot and so that is evidence that guns r bad mmmmkayyyyyy!

But in the end these individual stories are meaningless and only pushed by the anti-gun people who have no real argument, can't come up with anything valid and only have this one tool for tricking people into believing them but too bad for them we are now out in the streets on the internet informing people more than ever about the anti-gun zealots lies and manipulation.

[sharesunited]

67. And for what purpose are you speaking your version of the truth?

For gun love and ammo amore. Pure and simple.

[GreenStormCloud]

42. Because of violent criminal like him, I carry guns.

I will NOT be an easy victim of a thug like that. Why you wish to disarm me and leave me helpless against violent criminals defies reason.

[sharesunited]

47. Don't shoot an innocent person by mistake. And yet, don't let yourself get shot first.

The more people who are armed, the tighter the tension becomes on the trigger.

[burrfoot]

49. You keep saying these things,

as if they are something more than your opinion.

And I can assure you, GSC will do everything possible to avoid either getting shot or injuring an innocent person.

And you continually spout this idea that now that there are a significant number of armed individuals in Flordia, somehow criminals are more likely to shoot first. That idea is so full of idiocy that I don't even know where to begin discussing it.

The fact is that LESS people are dying by firearm than ever before, and MORE firearms are owned.

Oh, there's also the fact that criminals have been "shooting first" for a long time. Do you any evidence- even anecdotal- about a criminal who "only shot first because my victim might be armed?"

:shrug:

[farmout rightarm]

54. I have some evidence of that:

Bush -> Iraq.


:shrug:

editing---maybe I should have included :sarcasm:

[farmout rightarm]

53. Are you sure you aren't confusing guns with hemorrhoids?

:silly:

[SteveM]

74. Some how, a shotgun pattern flashed up in my mind. nt

[GreenStormCloud]

59. IOW, practice situational awareness. N/T

[burrfoot]

45. Unrec'd because you've jumped the shark, Shares,

and are now coming off as completely absurd.

Though it's wasted breath, I'd like to mention that in Florida there's a much better chance than in many other states for guys like this to come across an armed citizen who would at least have a chance of stopping them.

Sadly for these people, this guy was the only one around with a gun.

[sharesunited]

61. Even if they WERE armed, he went in blazing. The answer is never more guns and ammo.

The answer is scarcity.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

68. Scarcity for criminals and more for the law abiding, that is the answer.

[burrfoot]

69. The answer is not scarcity. That way you are only

taking guns away from the law abiding before you can take them away from the criminals.

If you do that, there is no way to avoid the fact that you are making victims of crimes more vulnerable to violent attacks. And that's not ok.

You also take away the only defense that anyone has who is less physically capable than Mr. Criminal, who tends to be young, strong, and male.

And every time anyone points this out, at least so far, you fail to answer. Then you go on to point out misleading drivel like the OP.

As I've said before, you have a laudable goal (less guns, less injury, less death); but you have no answers to the problems that come along with the only tool in your toolbox- the removal of guns in a way which, inherently, removes them from the law abiding before it does the criminals.

For some reason you seem to think that guns will magically be reduced among criminals as quickly as among law abiding citizens.

One of those groups tend to obey laws, though, and one tends to ignore them. So the reality is, again....law abiding citizens will be MORE vulnerable to violent criminals than they are now.

It seems that that is ok with you. If it's not, please say so (and explain how you tend to avoid it).

[Tim01]

46. Just answer me a question.

Do you think if the guns were gone, violent criminals would be gone?

[sharesunited]

62. No. They would just be less lethal and need to exert a lot more effort.

That's a good thing, right?

[Tim01]

63. "They would just be less lethal and need to exert a lot more effort."

I agree that is true.

Equally true that most people would be defenseless against criminals willing to be violent, especially women who are usually physically not as strong.

Law abiding citizens would be defenseless.

And you are ok with that? People no longer able to protect themselves from violent criminals?
When the criminals lose guns, they pick up knives.That is what actually happens.

[spin]

64. Even the U.K. has problems with gun crime ...

28 gun crimes committed in UK every day

By Christopher Hope, Home Affairs Correspondent
Published: 10:49AM GMT 24 Jan 2008

The spiralling problem with gun culture was highlighted by figures that show 28 firearms crimes are committed in England and Wales every day.

Home Office figures showed gun crimes rose by four per cent last year, the largest increase for three years.

t follows a crackdown unveiled by Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, after the shooting of 11-year-old Rhys Jones by another boy in Liverpool last August.

Police chiefs said the figures were concerning, while Tories said they showed Labour was "failing to combat violent crime and its causes". The Liberal Democrats said the data was "alarming".

There were 10,182 firearms offences in the year to the end of September compared with 9,755 in the previous 12 months - an increase of more than 400 crimes, or more than eight every week.

The rise is the biggest percentage increase since September 2004, when figures showed a five per cent increase in gun crimes.

While gun-related deaths were down, from 55 to 49, the number of slight injuries, threats and non-injury incidents linked to guns increased.

***snip***

Norman Brennan, a policeman who is spokesman for the Victims of Crime Trust, said Government initiatives to tackle gun crime seemed to make no difference.

"Children as young as 11 or 12 are carrying guns," he said. "The sad reality is that it is becoming so routinely reported by the press that a child has been shot that the shock value has been eliminated."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576406/28-gun-crimes-committed-in-UK-every-day.html

[sharesunited]

65. The shock value seems to have been eliminated in the USA long ago.

[SteveM]

75. "...problem with gun culture?" Where guns have been banned? hmmm nt

[aliendroid]

50. fail

You get a fail on this thread.

Look, you can't use individual stories as argument. That does not work. Look at the massive drop in violent crime due to concealed carry. Imagine all those anecdotal stories that never came to be, thanks to the fear CC brings to criminal scum.

[rd_kent]

60. Stop that right now. You are dealing with someone for whom reality doesnt matter.