Chicago man charged in shooting death of his friend

[depakid]

A Chicago man was charged Monday with three felonies in an accidental shooting in Van Buren County that killed his friend, police said.

Fernando Alcantar Clark, 25, was arraigned in Van Buren County District Court on one count each of involuntary manslaughter, discharging a firearm while under the influence of alcohol causing death, and felony use of a firearm, a court official said.

Clark was handling a 7.62-caliber rifle during a family gathering Saturday night at 75818 County Road 380 in South Haven Township when the firearm accidentally discharged, striking Jose Manuel Renteria, 34, also of Chicago, in the chest, Detective Sgt. Mike Spring said.

Renteria was taken from the scene in a personal vehicle to South Haven Community Hospital following the 11:47 p.m. incident, police said. Police said Renteria and Clark were both visiting from Chicago and had come to Michigan for the family gathering.

More: http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/03/chicago_man_fernando_clark_cha.html

[cowman]

1. Meanwhile back

on the ranch where Molly was now doing Danny

[Euromutt]

2. The version I'm familiar with is...

"Meanwhile, back the ranch, Tonto tries to open a door, and gets his knob blown off."

[cowman]

3. I like that one also

[rfranklin]

5. Always a dumb comment to add...

thanks.

[cowman]

6. You are soooooooo

welcome, glad I could accomodate you

[virgogal]

4. Doesn't everyone bring rifles to family gatherings?

[TPaine7]

7. Correction

Clark was handling a 7.62-caliber rifle during a family gathering Saturday night at 75818 County Road 380 in South Haven Township when he negligently pointed the weapon at the chest of Jose Manuel Renteria, 34, also of Chicago, and pulled the trigger, killing him.

That's how the story should read.

The firearm didn't accidentally discharge; firearms don't take independent actions.

[depakid]

8. Just goes to show why it's not a good idea to have them around your family and friends

These and similar stories are so commonplace in the states that they barely even get a mention- sometimes not even on local news.

[Saturday]

9. I agree. nt

[proteus_lives]

12. Safer to blame tools for human actions huh?

[depakid]

13. Guns don't kill people!

until someone gets a hold of them!

:rofl:

Actually, there have been a couple of cases posted in this forum over the years where guns have gone off by themselves for various reasons.

One I recall was on a stove top while its owner was cooking.

[proteus_lives]

14. That sounded almost like common sense.

"Guns don't kill people! until someone gets a hold of them!"

For various reasons? Like improper storage, loading, construction or handling? Sounds like human action to me.

I'd say that statement was almost free of your usual ignorance and bigotry.

[depakid]

15. Still denying the key element of res ipsa locuitor

No gun on the scene- the friend is still alive, and the gun owner isn't facing a prison term.

Same deal with the family killings that are so common in the states.

Not to mention, today's mass shooting in DC.

[proteus_lives]

16. Still refusing to admit that the vast majority of firearms and owners...

Are never involved with any crime.

And until they are, I'm not for punishing the majority for the crimes of the few. That may fit your....tastes but the majority of Americans disagree.

[depakid]

17. It's a public health problem- plain and simple

One that the gun proliferation crowd refuses to take any responsibility for, despite the blood on their hands.

[friendly_iconoclast]

18. Still banging the "collective guilt" drum? I notice fewer are marching behind it nowadays.

Get back to us when you accept your responsibilty for the bad stuff that happens in Australia.

[depakid]

20. Hey, we dealt with our problem with mass shootings

whereas Americans have them every couple of weeks. Sometimes two and three a week!

Not to mention all the family murders (that 11 year old who shot his stepmother was pretty nasty, eh?) cop killings, workplace - and tragic accidents like the one in the OP.

Using guns to settle disputes also seems to be big at bars and restaurants, lately.

[friendly_iconoclast]

32. But you *haven't* dealt with simmering racial tensions and abysmal treatment of asylum seekers.

Do get back to us when you've got that sorted out...

[depakid]

38. Unlike America, we're a nation of problem solvers- and if you'd been paying more attention

and casting fewer aspersions, you'd recognize that we not only make progress on issues like this- but that we're LIGHT YEARS ahead of America.

[friendly_iconoclast]

39. You certainly 'solved' the problem of indigenous Tasmanians...

...by slaughtering them all. You might even say the solution was final...

At least there are still Lakota around, and I daresay they have a higher percentage of the
national average per capita income than the indigenous Australian nations.

I also note that you don't actually let the Native Australians have sovreignity over their lands, you merely run it for them. In contrast, the Navajos OWN a huge chunk of Arizona and New Mexico.

I await the renunciation of the ANZUS Treaty. I'm sure the Indonesians would still play well with others after
a US withdrawal. Let us know how that's coming along, mmkay?

[Glassunion]

40. Yes very progressive.

How's that free speech thing going? Oh yes, I forgot, your progressive government limits speech.
If it is your point of view that America is a quite a bit behind because we don't ban books, movies, video games, etc... That we instead leave it up to the individual to determine if they wish to read, watch or play with these things. Than that is fine, I would much rather be in a country a bit less progressive.

You see I enjoy my civil liberties and rights entitled to me and protected by law. I would rather not bend and scrape at the whims of my government. I prefer to have my government on a leash. Not the other way around.

You folks really should get a Bill of Rights... You been talking about it since the 1940's.

[cowman]

21. Blood on our hands?

Gee, I'm looking at my hands and I sure as hell don't see any blood.

Seriously dude, doesn't your country have enough problems without trying to tell us how to run ours?

[proteus_lives]

29. What blood?

The only blood is on the hands of criminals.

Why do you always blame the majority for the actions of the few?

[friendly_iconoclast]

19. Also, the easy availability of cars is responsible for drunk driving deaths

And all you drivers have blood on your hands.

See, I can do it too!

[Glassunion]

22. What!?

"These and similar stories are so commonplace in the states that they barely even get a mention- sometimes not even on local news."

What do you mean by common place? You have numbers to back this up I'm sure...

Last I checked the frequency of these "accidents" was declining and hardly common place.

How's the Indian problem going?

[cowman]

24. You've just got to love

people from other countries telling us what our problems are and telling us how to run our country as if their country wasn't screwed up enough already

[Glassunion]

26. Actually all countries are really scewed up.

Maybe he works for the UN?

[Euromutt]

35. Hey, I used to work for the UN

I'll be happy to bitch about what's screwed up about that organization (and a number of the sub-organizations), if you've got a few a hours and are willing to pay for the beer.

[proteus_lives]

31. Don't hold your breath.

He doesn't respond to facts.

[Glassunion]

33. I know...

Quick question. Still new around here.. at the end of comments around here I occasionally see someone put either (nt) or (n/t). It's been driving me crazy trying to figure it out. I finally gave up. What does it mean?

[Euromutt]

36. It means "no text" in the message body

I.e. the subject line contains everything the poster wanted to say.

[Euromutt]

34. It's a beautifully circular argument, isn't it?

You almost have to admire the handiwork. The comparative rarity of these stories isn't because they're rare, but because they're so common. It's on a par with the assertion that the absence of evidence of a conspiracy is, in and of itself, evidence that there is a conspiracy, because it must be covering up the evidence.

[benEzra]

23. About the same number are killed in bicycle accidents annually, and four times as many drown.

I think you overestimate the number of accidental gun fatalities relative to those involving things you don't want banned, like bicycles and swimming, but that's how confirmation bias works, I suppose.

[Glassunion]

25. Stop it with the facts...

Just stop! They prove nothing... Nothing I say!

[depakid]

27. Sometimes, the rationalizations are just laughable

ANYTHING to justify the obsession- no matter how absurd and far fetched.

Next thing we'll hear about is a spate of people killing their friends and families with their bicycles!

[Glassunion]

28. Way to avoid his facts...

It's not a rationalization. He is giving you facts, contrary to your statement that it is commonplace.

Newsflash: It is as commonplace as bicycle accidents. So it is not really news.

[depakid]

37. LOL- you need to learn what relevant facts are and how to apply them

For some reason, Americans have problems these days with basic reasoning.

Some of the responses one gets are to put it bluntly, childish.

[friendly_iconoclast]

30. You would, no doubt, have just as assidiously pointed out...

Mr. Renteria's death if Clark had drunkenly taken him out by means of a car crash, no?

Senseless death is senseless death, whatever the mechanism.

[friendly_iconoclast]

10. Ban drunks

They're nothing but trouble...

[proteus_lives]

11. Ban friends.