Store clerks shoot and kill robbery suspect during shootout

[Bold Lib]

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12708001

MONROE, NC (WBTV) - A pair of store clerks shot and killed a gunman during an attempted robbery in Monroe late Thursday night, Monroe police said.

The two convenience store clerks reacted by pulling their own guns during the attempted robbery and exchanging fire with the suspect, police said.

The clerks on duty, brothers Sophia Pich and Jesus Vergara, were not injured.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

1. Thus risking the lives of anyone else in or near the store.

[stray cat]

3. Because armed robbers never hurt anyone?

[Vinnie From Indy]

4. Amen!

The other day here on DU there was a story about a guy that saw some kids stealing an i-phone at an ATT store. He ran out after them, whipped out a piece and began firing at their car as they sped away through a busy mall parking lot. Only by the grace of God did he not hit some innocent bystander and kill them over a fucking I-phone that he didn't even own and was probably insured.

While I have no idea what happened in that store, it would have been tragic had more people been killed in the crossfire or from a stray bullet.

[Tejas]

6. YAY, disarm cops too!

Sure don't want anybody getting hurt by stray bullets from their guns, especially criminals!

[Vinnie From Indy]

15. Really? That is what you took away from my post?

Your argument implies that it is perfectly OK with you for people to start blasting away at each other regardless of the safety of innocent bystanders. I have no doubt that were it one of your loved ones catching a round in the head as they sat across the street eating an ice cream cone you would not be so cavalier in your attitude about this incident.

[rrneck]

17. "you people"

Anytime anyone is shot it's a tragedy. Always.

So, if all the guns in the world went away do you have a self defense solution for someone who is assaulted by another with a knife, club fists or feet?

[Vinnie From Indy]

20. "you people" ?

Where do you get that?

[rrneck]

21. Yep, that's my bad. Sorry.

Got an answer to the question?

[rrneck]

23. Interesting.

I'm going to edit this post...

See that red text at the top of the body of the post? That notes the edit. Your post (#15) still has the space for the red edit text notation, but no red text. Isn't that interesting since I always cut and paste quoted text. Isn't that fascinating?

So, you still haven't answered my question. Here it is again for your convenience:

So, if all the guns in the world went away do you have a self defense solution for someone who is assaulted by another with a knife, club fists or feet?

The text in bold was cut and pasted as well.

[Tejas]

32. This one is even weirder

Vinnie From Indy (1000+ posts) Sat Jun-26-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Really? That is what you took away from my post?


Your argument implies that it is perfectly OK with you for people to start blasting away at each other regardless of the safety of innocent bystanders. I have no doubt that were it one of your loved ones catching a round in the head as they sat across the street eating an ice cream cone you would not be so cavalier in your attitude about this incident.
------------------------------------------------


I guess in your land of unicorns and rosie sunsets the thought process is to HOPE the criminal doesn't start just blasting away regardless of the safety of innocent bystanders.

Apparently you also can't stand the idea of an innocent defending theirself or others against some thug with a gun who might start just blasting away regardless of the safety of innocent bystanders.




edit to add: W T F ??!?

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cowman]

34. Your right

It would have been a tragedy if an innocent bystander was injured or killed, but guess what? It didn't happen and I sure as hell wouldn't trust the good graces of some POS criminal pointing a gun at me, I would do the same thing as those clerks did. One less POS for the world to worry about.

[Tejas]

39. "wouldn't trust the good graces" - thank you

Very well put. It amazes me to no end how some here are so quick to criticize the actions of those that would defend oneself or others against an immediate threat to life and limb.

Who's side are they on?

Amazing that they would crucify an innocent vs a slap on the hand for the criminals, makes you wonder where the real mental problems lie in this country.

[Vinnie From Indy]

50. Some of you folks are just so eager and rabid to defend gun ownership

that you will invent shit to fight over. My OP offered two basic points. One, that I was not there and do not have an opinion about the circumstances regarding these brothers defending themselves. The second was that it would have been a tragedy if some innocent bystander had been killed in the crossfire. I also included a story about a guy blasting away at kids that stole a phone that he did not own and who were not threatening him in any way.

You write,
"Apparently you also can't stand the idea of an innocent defending theirself or others against some thug with a gun who might start just blasting away regardless of the safety of innocent bystanders."

Apparently you have a problem with reading comprehension.

[slackmaster]

41. You should get some firearms training before attempting to comment on the defensive use of firearms

Your argument implies that it is perfectly OK with you for people to start blasting away at each other regardless of the safety of innocent bystanders.

Your comment suggests that you have no idea what you are talking about. You must have had the misfortune of never being taught basic gun safety, which is unfortunately becoming more common.

Basic gun safety should be taught in public schools.

[Travis Coates]

7. While I have no idea what happened in that store,

The only truthful comment in your whole post

[Vinnie From Indy]

16. Your answer impliies that you do NOT believe it would have been

a tragedy for some inncoent bystander to have been killed in the shootout. It is hard to know how to respond to such an idea. I guess if it were one of your loved ones killed merely walking or driving by the store where the shootout took place you might feel differently about that.

[Travis Coates]

18. I absolutely believe it would be a tragedy if an innocent bystander were harmed

What I don'tbelieve is that this is the norm for DGUs by CHP holders as a matter of fact I can't think of one instance in which this has happened. I can ,however, find any number of instances in which the victims were 100% compliant W/ the criminal's commands and got killed anyway.

I'll take my chances W/ the permit holder

Typos

[jazzhound]

43. Post #7 "implies" no such thing.

You are only reading it as such because you are predisposed (biased/prejudiced/bigoted) to believe that gun owners in general are a callous group.

If you were operating from a neutral position you would see no "implication".

[Vinnie From Indy]

47. Hardly!

The post in response to mine offered that the ONLY thing in my post that was true was that I was not in that store and did not know what happened. The logical implication is that the rest of my post was untrue. Obviously the poster AGREED with me that the point I raised about innocents being killed would be tragic.

[jazzhound]

48. Spare us your BS -- nobody is buying it.

It was transparently ridiculous for you to place such a literal read on Travis' post. Do you think that anyone following the exchange honestly believes that Travis is as callous as you suggested he is?

Yes ---- obviously Travis cleared up his position with his subsequent post........a point you could have given him the benefit of the doubt on before you made your absurd remark.

As is obvious to all only your bias against gun owners led you to your pathetic implication that Travis cared not a whit about the possibility that a bystander could have been seriously injured or killed. Spin this as long as you want --- you're not fooling anyone.

[Vinnie From Indy]

49. Right back at ya dude!

Words mean things. If travis wants to write that ONLY one thing in my preceding post was true, then I will call him out on that. Yes, he did retract his original snarky post and acknowledged the tragedy of innocents being killed. All was good. Then you jump in with your silly, juvenile bit of piffle. Again, words mean things and if guys like you and Travis want to write silly BS and then offer that "everyone" should have known what you really meant, then have at it. The thing is that in the world of debate and ideas, your arguments will be considered immature and lacking merit. In addition, would it not be far simpler just to write what you mean rather than have readers guess at your intent?

As a gun owner, I find your nonsense helping no one and I find your claim that things are "obvious to all" to be mildly amusing. It reflects the depth of your arrogance and lack of intellect. Cheers!

[jazzhound]

51. Obviously words mean things, and obviously

Travis could have phrased his post more artfully. I've been pretty clumsy in posting my sentiments from time to time and perhaps you've slipped on occasion as well. "Juvenile bit of piffle?!" Pretty silly, considering your ill-mannered and juvenile insinuation that Travis would be unconcerned about innocents harmed or killed by an irresponsible shooter!

[jazzhound]

52. Actually, you are right.

I could have, and should have excused myself from your exchange with Travis. My remark *obvious to all* was clumsy. I should have said......"obvious to all in this forum who are familiar with Travis". My bad, and my apologies for my snark.

[Vinnie From Indy]

53. No worries!

And, you are correct! I as well sometimes write things that do not accurately reflect the ideas I am trying to convey. Cheers!

[virginia mountainman]

5. Yea, like thieves, never kill anyone when they commit armed robbery..

It is always best, to trust the peaceful nature of those that are violently stealing your stuff..

:sarcasm:

Give them what they want, and they will NEVER hurt you...

And just for the record, this Democrat, has a CCW permit, and carries a .45 everyday...Because mine, and my families lives are worth saving.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[virginia mountainman]

9. You need to read DU's rules...

Personal attacks are not tolerated here... Why would you say such a thing? We was having a nice conversation up until you decided to throw mud.

[jazzhound]

14. Congratulations on developing the ability to walk

while chewing gum.

Sorry about your hypocrisy, cowardice, defective brain and black heart.

[shadowrider]

38. I carry a .40 for the same reasons n/t

[proteus_lives]

19. Yeah, they should have put their fates in the hands of an armed felon.

:eyes:

[GreenStormCloud]

24. It is doubtful that anyone else was in the store.

Convenience store robbers usually strike when no one else is in a store. Customers in the store complicate the robbery. The crook has to then keep and eye on the customers while watching the clerk and the door and taking the money.

You assume the the clerks just sprayed bullets aimlessly. CCW holders have to demonstrate proficiency with the guns to get the license.

[GreenStormCloud]

25. You are forgetting one HUGE thing.

The clerk's lives were in danger. The bad guy was holding a loaded gun on them and threatening their lives. They acted to save their own lives.

[GreenStormCloud]

26. The article goes on to state that a crowd of the dead robber's relatives gathered at the store.

The police had to be called to disperse the crowd of relatives.

[one-eyed fat man]

31. It should prove interesting.

The crowd of relatives at the store? Was this the wailing women going on about how the poor robber loved his momma and was turning his life around since the last time he got out of prison?

Will we get treated to another rap sheet where all can wonder how someone can be arrested for that many crimes since he turned 18 and still be on the street?

Makes you wonder what their sealed juvenile record looks like.

[AtheistCrusader]

35. What for? The Clerks obviously have the situation in hand.

[X_Digger]

27. The person risking another's life is the robber..

.. who convinces the clerk that the clerk's life is worth whatever is in the cash register.

When's the last time you heard 'innocent bystander shot' in the same breath as 'permit to carry concealed'?

Rarer than hens' teeth.

[Xenotime]

46. Exactly. So much for gun safety.

[stray cat]

2. Thats one less perpetrator threatening people with guns

[Zoeisright]

12. LOL!!!! As though that's going to make a difference.

How lame.

[one-eyed fat man]

22. Maybe, maybe not.

There is a certain amount of frequent flyer effect in street crime.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4441/is_200609/ai_n17194955/

Fifty-six percent of the violent felons convicted in the 75 most populous counties from 1990 through 2002 had a prior conviction, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Of the offenders with prior felony records, the study found that at the time of the new crime 18 percent were on probation, 12 percent on release pending disposition of a prior case and 7 percent on parole.

The bureau also reported 38 percent had a prior felony conviction and 15 percent had been previously convicted for a violent felony.

In another finding, the bureau said youths under age 21 commit 30 percent of all homicides.

You can be certain that his future crimes are ended. Absolutely nothing stops recidivism like death.

[jazzhound]

29. Actually, your statement is lame.

Keep up with the conversation, could you? Here's a recently posted example about how one the them evil gunz prevented a nut-job from killing a number of people after he tried to kill one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x322526

[AtheistCrusader]

36. Eventually, one side or the other is going to run out of people.

I'm damn sure going to do my best to make sure it's not my side.

[PavePusher]

44. Best comment yet, today.

O.K., it's early still, but that was good...

[safeinOhio]

10. Ya got to be careful

http://community.comcast.net/t5/In-The-News/Innocent-Grandma-Killed-By-Man-Shooting-At-


 
He is responsible for the injury of the neighborhood woman whether the shooting is legitimate or not.  Had he not fired, she would still be alive.  It is even more damning that he missed his intended target, suggesting negligence in his use of the weapon. 


2 Things, better be sure of your target and better be sure you can prove your life is in danger.
Still you can be screwed because a bullet doesn't always stop where you think it will.

[Bold Lib]

11. Police are the only ones professional enough. . .oh, wait a sec

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292168,00.html

Oklahoma Police Kill 5-Year Old Boy While Shooting at Snake

NOBLE, Okla. — A stray bullet fired by a police officer trying to shoot a snake hit and killed a 5-year-old boy fishing at a nearby pond, officials said.

[safeinOhio]

13. Yep, you are right.

Guns are very dangerous, even in the hands of experts, let alone a citizen with only a few hours of training. That is why deadly force should always be the last resort. Then you can join me in calling for more extensive training for both law enforcement and citizens that carry. Like any other tool a hand gun can do great good and great bad. For every story about saving innocent life, there are stories about the lose of innocent life. To keep us gun owners vigilant, both kinds of stories need to made public as reminders of our responsibilities and the safety of others.
Thanks for the reminder.

[AtheistCrusader]

37. 'even in the hands of experts' *Snort*

[safeinOhio]

40. Yes

I met a man a few years ago that had a cast on his left hand. Asked what happen and he said he shot himself when cleaning his hand gun. No big deal except the next thing he said was that he has been an NRA safety instructor for 35 years.
*Snort snort*

[oneshooter]

28. That depends on the laws of the state you are in. n/t

Post #1000!!!!!!

[one-eyed fat man]

30. Felony murder

These things depend on the laws of the State. If you participate in a felony and during the commission of that felony someone dies, the criminal participants they place the events in motion are culpable for the death arising from the commission of the crime.

For example, you could be the driver of the get-away car sitting out by the curb when your partners runs in to stick up the joint.

Partner A hollers, "This is a stick-up! Nobody move or I shoot."

Whereupon Partner B moves and in the excitement Partner A shoots him dead.

You and Partner A both get charged with felony murder.

Out on bail from the first stick up, you and your buddy plan another heist to pay your legal fees. You run in, announce the stick-up and the owner of the bodega keels over from a heart attack. Another felony murder. His wife shoots you, the bullet wounds you but hits an innocent across the road. Odds are you and your buddy each get another count of felony murder.

[Katya Mullethov]

42. You probably think that is fair

They are merely reacting to societal conditions and the contrived inequality in the distribution of wealth . When they demand money * , it is not without a good reason . It should be neatly collated by denomination , banded ,and handed over to them , Eventually they will save enough to buy their own bodega * and show up EVERY MORNING at 6:30 AM and then go home at 8 PM , grabbing bites from a sandwich in between customers as the margins are too narrow to take a 30 minute break and loose sales and possibly hard won customers as they shift their buying habits toward your competition .




* You are on your own if they demand sex as well , but criminal science and economics majors
from prestigious universities and local community colleges recommend throwing up on yourself .


** Quite possibly your bodega , bought at tax auction .

[spin]

45. No wonder our economy is in such bad shape ...

if "criminal science and economics majors from prestigious universities and local community colleges recommend throwing up on yourself" to prevent rape.