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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 03:33 PM
Original message
Columbus Ohio mayor wants to change gun laws ...


Mayor Ready To Take On Gun Laws
September 28, 2010

COLUMBUS, Ohio --

Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman wants state legislators to give cities back the power to enact gun control laws that were taken away almost four years ago.

Coleman said he believes that giving cities back control of gun laws could cut down on weapons used in crimes, but not everyone thinks that move would make that much of a difference. Instead, some believe it impacts those following the laws more.

It was just a few weeks ago when Mayor Coleman asked the neighborhoods of Columbus to turn in criminals and their guns. It's an issue impacting just about everyone.

***snip***

"The mayor needs to go after criminals. What gun laws do is affect the law-abiding citizen. They don't impact the criminals," said Linda Walker with the Buckeye Firearms Association.

Coleman said he is targeting a so-called gun show loophole that he said would reduce criminals' access to guns. The Buckeye Firearms Association said it misses the mark.

"A criminal doesn't go to a gun show or retail shop to get the gun. They are going to steal it," Walker said.

But Mayor Coleman said data from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives shows weak gun laws lead to illegal trafficking and should lead to cities getting more say on the law.
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2010/sep/28/6/mayor-columbus-already-takes-gun-violence-now-read-ar-243705/



Coleman wants cities to be able to enact gun-control laws
Monday, September 27, 2010 11:12 PM

State legislators should give Columbus and other Ohio cities the power to enact gun-control laws that they took away almost four years ago, Mayor Michael B. Coleman said today.

***snip***

Columbus banned assault weapons, licensed gun dealers and prohibited people from carrying concealed weapons in city parks until a state law took effect in March 2007, wiping out all local gun rules. Supporters said the state should have sole power over such issues to eliminate a patchwork of local ordinances.

Jim Irvine, chairman of the Buckeye Firearms Association, called local gun laws "useless at best" because they were rarely enforced against people committing serious crimes.

"Where is his leadership to go after the real problems?" he said of Coleman. "What they're failing to focus on is the criminal."

***snip***

Although Coleman also called for new state laws, such as background checks on people who buy weapons from private gun-show dealers, spokesman Dan Williamson said the mayor isn't seeking to impose Columbus' old rules on the rest of Ohio.

"The mayor's not asking to pass laws for Licking County or Hocking County or Delaware County," Williamson said. "He wants to pass laws within our borders for the city of Columbus."
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/09/27/coleman-wants-cities-to-be-able-to-enact-gun-control-laws.html?sid=101



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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. good
we need to get all the illegal guns off the streets, and all the assault rifles
responsible guns and owners are one thing, assault rifles and illegal guns are different.

:hi:
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
3.  Full-auto weapons "assault weapons/rifles" have been tightly controlled since 1934.
Edited on Fri Oct-01-10 03:54 PM by oneshooter
What firearms are you referring to?

Also what are "responsable guns"?


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. But don't take pot off the streets! Oh, that's right, it isn't...off...the...streets.
Just what is an "assault rifle," and what are "illegal guns?"
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. An assault rifle has a specific definition ...

An assault rifle is defined as a selective fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine.<1><2><3><4> Assault rifles are the standard infantry weapons in most modern armies. Assault rifles are categorized in between light machine guns, which are intended more for sustained automatic fire in a light support role, and submachine guns, which fire a pistol cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge.

***snip***

Assault rifles vs. Assault weapons

The term assault weapon is a United States political and legal term used to describe a variety of semi-automatic firearms that have certain features generally associated with military assault rifles. The 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired on September 13, 2004, codified the definition of an assault weapon. It defined the rifle type of assault weapon as a semiautomatic firearm with the ability to accept a detachable magazine containing more than 10 rounds, and two or more of the following:

* Folding or telescoping stock
* Primary pistol grip
* Forward grip
* Threaded barrel (for a Suppressor, commonly called a silencer)
* Barrel shroud

The assault weapons ban did not restrict weapons capable of fully automatic fire, such as assault rifles and machine guns, which have been continuously and heavily regulated since the National Firearms Act of 1934 was passed. Subsequent laws such as the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 also affected the importation and civilian ownership of fully automatic firearms, the latter fully prohibiting sales of newly-manufactured machine guns to non-law enforcement or SOT (special occupational taxpayer) dealers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle#Assault_rifles_vs._Assault_weapons


The terms are often confused by the media with an agenda, or too lazy to do any basic research, or too stupid to understand the difference.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Can you explain the fundamental difference in these two rifles?
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. The R-25 is more dangerous
I know that because it looks scarier.

And that camouflage definitely makes it more deadly.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Huh.
I could have sworn the lack of sights idicated that it was intended to be "spray-fired from the hip" or similar bullshit.

:rofl:
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Republican hypocrisy allowed the state to overrule local weapons laws
Ohio is presumably a "home rule" state, where local governments are supposed to be allowed to legislate what is in their best interest. Republican like Kasich actually campaigned on "home rule" issues in the past. But when it comes to pumping a wedge issue, they change their "home rule" affiliation to "NRA rule".
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Florida is a good example ...
Before the "shall issue" concealed carry laws passed in 1987, the state was a confusing mess as far as firearm law. I could obtain a permit to carry a firearm in Hillsborough County (Tampa) and find if I drove to Miami, it was invalid.

That's exactly what will happen again in Ohio if the Mayors of Columbus and Cleveland get their way. I would have to know all the stupid local laws as I drive around the state with my legally concealed firearm. If I happen to stop in a park in Columbus, I might be violating the law where if I stopped in a park in Toledo, I might be legal.

The law would be created by the local tyrant and his minions. I would be more likely to get arrested than the real criminals running amok in the city. Imagine how many tourists who have out of state concealed weapons permits that Ohio recognizes, would violate some local ordinance on carrying a firearm. As an Ohio Citizen or a visitor, you would probably need a guide the size of a small telephone book to cover all the local laws that might be passed. In one city, you might be able to carry your firearm in the passenger compartment but in another it might have to be locked up in the trunk.

It definitely would make a concealed carry license virtually worthless if you traveled around the state.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Of course, there is that thing called the 14th Amendment...
which prevents the states (and "their" cities and counties) abridging the privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States. I am curious: does "home rule" in Ohio allow the cities to pass any legislation which countermands the laws and constitution of the state?
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Looks like *someone* has a sad! Damn that pesky state constitution.
Now you actually have to persuade all Ohioans to restrict their own rights because of Columbus's and Cleveland's problems.

Good luck with that.
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. I wonder if you'd have the same attitude if this were about domestic partnership laws
Edited on Fri Oct-01-10 05:10 PM by Euromutt
Hypothetical example: I live in Washington state, where state law enables same-sex couples to register a "domestic partnership," giving them at least some of the legal rights and protections of marriage within the state. Now, let's imagine that a number of local governments in the more conservative eastern half of the state claim that allowing domestic partnership conflict with their "community standards" and that, therefore, they should be allowed to ignore the law within their jurisdictions.

Would you agree with that argument, or would you say they can shut the fuck up and abide by the law passed by a majority of the democratically elected state legislature?

(Edited to fix typo)
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Should Redneckville, OH be able to ban abortions, too?
..or the practice of certain religions?

..or the sale of certain books?

How far down the civil rights ladder are you willing to climb?
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. Good for him.
May he ultimately succeed.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Keeps gun-control issue alive, to the benefit of the G.O.P.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Yep. It's a great idea to push draconian gun control ...
just before an election where all the predictions show Democrats losing BIG!

:banghead:

This type of bullshit probably will result in a number of Ohio Democrats losing their elections.

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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Fuck yeah, rights are for pussies! *sarcasm* n/t
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
20.  And he may fail miserably. n/t
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. Bullshit. This takes us back to the old days where every city police chief or county sheriff
controls your rights, as they did before the spread of shall-issue laws. Never again.
They tried this in Philly, and it is illegal.


mark
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Big city majors often view their cities as their fiefdom ...
and the view themselves as the feudal lord.

Such mayors are just petty little tyrants.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. +1
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Bloomberg comes to mind. FWIW, mayor Nutter of Philly wanted city
Edited on Sat Oct-02-10 05:27 AM by old mark
laws in excess of the PA state handgun laws...the DA at the time told him she would NEVER ENFORCE any such laws because they were illegal.

Lots of politicians loudly respect the law - except when they don't like it or feel thay make political points by saying they will do things they can not legally do.
"Lies" is the common term for this.

Philly now has a new DA, and enforces handgun laws more strictly on city residents than any other residents of PA. I have more gun rights as a carry-licenced visitor than I would as a citizen of Philly which is still illegal and makes no sense.



mark
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. While I don't agree with the mayor
I do think all politics are local. Big city mayors win their races because they represent the wishes of the people of big cities. If they were really petty little tyrants and feudal lords they would not get elected.

When I lived in a big city, the gun shots started around midnight. In the country they started at day break in the fall. That is the difference. I can understand the attitudes of both sides. If I lived in the city I wouldn't want the people of Possum Holler making my laws and if I lived in Possum Holler I wouldn't want the people of Chicago making my laws. I would think solutions are not going to come until both sides consider the others concerns. Name calling and finger pointing by both sides just compound the problems. Look at national election maps. Urban areas vote Democratic and rural areas vote Repub. The Democrats can't win by alienating city voters to win state and federal elections. Most gun rights supporters here don't see that. It's a fine line to walk.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Sorry, the Constitution applies equally to all.
Civil Rights are not adjustable by geography in this country.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. My experience is that gun laws do little to stop gunfire in the cities ...
I have lived in large urban areas such as the Tampa Bay area of Florida when gun ownership was very common and "shall issue" concealed carry allowed honest citizens to carry in public.

The fact that guns were common might have changed the nature of the crime to a certain extent. For example in an area where gun ownership is common, the number of incidents involving robbery of occupied homes might decrease. Or in an area where people can legally carry firearms concealed, the number of street muggings may show a decrease. What happens is that the criminals become more selective in targeting people. They may know that the home owner is unarmed before they enter his house or they may be careful not to attempt to demand cash from a fairly alert individual on the street who is dressed in a manner that would allow him to carry a concealed weapon. (In Florida, Hawaiian shirts or photographer's vests with no camera are giveaways.)

The quickest solution to crime is better law enforcement. Cops on the street backed up by a court system that does more than slap a criminal on the wrist until he finally murders someone, are the most immediate solution.


Tampa meets, and beats, the county's drop in crime
February 10, 2010

TAMPA — A day after the county rolled out 2009 crime statistics, boasting a 10 percent drop, the city of Tampa one-upped that report.

Citywide, crime decreased 15.8 percent in 2009, the Tampa Police Department announced Tuesday. This is the seventh consecutive year the city's crime rate has dropped, for total decrease of 56 percent since 2002. emphasis added

"I couldn't be any prouder of this accomplishment," said police Chief Jane Castor.

She credited Mayor Pam Iorio's leadership and a sharper focus on four types of crime: car thefts, car burglaries, home burglaries and robberies. Castor said those "gateway crimes" often involve repeat offenders and can lead to violent crimes.

"There is no such thing as a minor crime in the city of Tampa," she said.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/tampa-meets-and-beats-the-countys-drop-in-crime/1071846


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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Chicago, D.C., you payin' attention there...? n/t
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Chicago not in the top 10 cities
over a half million as most dangerous. On the other hand Phoenix, AZ comes in at number 10. AZ?, I thought they had great laws.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Phoenix may prove my theory in a couple of years ...

Phoenix crime continues to drop in first half of 2010
by Michael Ferraresi - Sept. 15, 2010

The number of reported crimes in Phoenix and the overall crime rate continued to plummet in the first half of 2010 as the city reached 20-year lows in some categories, according to police statistics released this week.

Phoenix police also said that homicide detectives are clearing nearly 80 percent of the city's homicide investigations, the highest rate in 17 years.

Police leaders credited the lower numbers to more than three years of detailed crime-suppression efforts, more emphasis on crime statistics to identify problem areas, stronger investigative partnerships with other law enforcement agencies and closer involvement with neighborhood groups.emphasis added

The downward crime trend continued through the first several months of this year in Phoenix, according to a Phoenix Police Crime Analysis and Research Unit report.

The summary report shows fewer 2010 reports of every major crime - including homicide, rape, robbery and theft - compared with the same time period the previous year.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2010/09/15/20100915phoenix-crime-rate-drops-first-half-2010.html


New York City has draconian gun laws but also has a low level of crime.


New York City crime rates at record low: police
Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:44pm EST

(Reuters) - This year has been the safest in New York City in more than four decades, with the murder rate down to levels not seen since the early 1960s, police said on Monday.

As of Sunday, 461 murders had been committed, down from 516 in 2008 and the lowest number since comparable record-keeping began in 1963, the New York Police Department said.

***snip***

The FBI also said New York was the safest U.S. big city in 2009.

Crime in New York has been falling for several years in a decline widely attributed to a "broken windows" strategy of no tolerance for even the smallest infraction and the system of identifying and addressing problem areas.emphasis added

In announcing the 2009 statistics, Mayor Michael Bloomberg also gave credit to his efforts to clamp down on illegal guns.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BR38320091228


Bloomburg may be right that his efforts to crack down on illegal guns may be helping, but New York City had basically the same draconian gun laws during its crime peak as it has today.

The Sullivan Act, also known as the Sullivan Law, is a controversial gun control law in New York State. Upon first passage, the Sullivan Act required licenses for New Yorkers to possess firearms small enough to be concealed. Possession of such firearms without a license was a misdemeanor, carrying them was a felony. The possession or carrying of weapons such as brass knuckles, sandbags, blackjacks, bludgeons or bombs was a felony, as was possessing or carrying a dagger, "dangerous knife" or razor "with intent to use the same unlawfully". Named for its primary legislative sponsor, state senator Timothy Sullivan, a notoriously corrupt Tammany Hall politician, it dates to 1911, and is still in force, making it one of the older existing gun control laws in the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_Act


Crime in New York City

Violent crime in New York City has decreased in the last fifteen years, and the murder rate in 2007 was at its lowest level since at least 1963, when reliable statistics were first kept and the city had half a million fewer residents.<1><2> Crime rates spiked in the 1980s and early 1990s as the crack epidemic hit the city. During the 1990s the New York City Police Department (NYPD) adopted CompStat, broken windows policing and other strategies in a major effort to reduce crime. The city's dramatic drop in crime has been attributed by criminologists to these policing tactics, the end of the crack epidemic and demographic changes.<3><4> There is evidence that the data may have been manipulated to create the sense of a more secure atmosphere.<5>

***snip***

Crime in New York City was high in the 1980s during the Mayor Edward I. Koch years, as the crack epidemic hit New York City, and peaked in 1990,<2> the first year of Mayor David Dinkins' administration (1990–1993) and started its current run of lower crime rates. During the administrations of Mayor Rudolph Giuliani (1994–2001), the drop in crime accelerated, continuing at a slower rate under Mayor Michael Bloomberg (2002–present). Although many commentators have suggested that the New York City Police Department's adoption of CompStat, broken windows policing, and other strategies during the administration of Rudolph Giuliani were responsible for the drop in crime, some studies argued that the dramatic reduction in crime was strongly correlated with the increases in the number of police officers that started under Mayor Dinkins and continued through the Giuliani administration. In the 2005 book, Freakonomics, authors Steven Levitt and Steven Dubner provided a statistical argument that attributed much of the drop in crime to the legalization of abortion in the seventies, as they suggest that many of the would be neglected children and criminals were never born.

***snip***

In 2006, as part of Mayor Michael Bloomberg's gun control efforts, the city approved new legislation regulating handgun possession and sales. The new laws established a gun offender registry, required city gun dealers to inspect their inventories and file reports to the police twice a year, and limited individual handgun purchases to once every 90 days. The regulations also banned the use and sale of kits used to paint guns in bright or fluorescent colors, on the grounds that such kits could be used to disguise real guns as toys.emphasis added

In July 2007, the city planned to install an extensive web of cameras and roadblocks designed to detect, track and deter terrorists called Lower Manhattan Security Initiative, which is similar to the City of London's "ring of steel".<14>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_York_City


It's my theory that the restrictive gun laws in NYC do little to reduce crime and in fact may result in many tragic incidences where armed individuals may have been able to successfully defend themselves against deadly criminal attacks.

But Bloomberg's efforts to crack down on illegal guns should prove far more effective. Taking guns away from honest people does little, taking guns away from criminals yields immediate and long term results.

The solutions to our crime problem are complicated and expensive. Better policing is the best start, followed by many other expensive programs to improve education and job creation. Also legalizing some drugs may help reduce the impact of drug gangs, but I fear that these gangs will adapt to survive and continue to be a major crime problem.


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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. You might notice that we sit astride one of the main people/drug smuggling routes...
along the southern border.

Crime is going to be somewhat elevated over many places due to that very fact alone.

I doubt Ohio has these problems to the same magnitude.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Interesting theory...
Austin, Texas, home of the best-paid police department in Texas, and a city council which can't say "no" to more police-funding, the crime rate has gone up, while the national trend is down. Like San Antonio, Austin is located on Interstate 35, the big arterial for smuggling drugs, people and cash (the other way) between Mexico and the U.S. interior. There is speculation that the drug gangs, while establishing wider and stronger control of U.S. markets, is recruiting in cities along this route, and with gang wannabees in ample supply, "initiations" into thug life are increasing. Looking for anomalies or counter trends to the falling crime rates might reveal a pattern.

Within the last 2 years, San Marcos, TX, a college-town of modest size below Austin, has had two home invasions of student-area housing which resulted in the deaths of at least some of the invaders, in both instances. Some of these school drop-outs are so arrogant in their ignorance, they forget that Central Texas is home to some of the best bird and deer hunting on the planet.
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gravity556 Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Phoenix is also dealing
with a large number of illegal immigrants and the crime associated with human and drug smuggling. There have been, in recent years, rolling shootouts on the 17 between rival groups of smugglers-if they can steal a rival's load of illegals, they can hold them hostage and ransom them. It's not politically correct to say, but crime follows illegal immigration, and Phoenix and Tucson are huge epicenters for it. And while there are loads of folks who sneak in to the country to work, there are also plenty of folks who sneak in to assist in other criminal enterprises. Unfortunately for the people who want to work, the smugglers and the cartels don't care if they have to kill a few people to get a point across. They also don't flinch from raping female illegals.

The border is a war zone-and the weapons aren't coming from legit dealers or even from shady dealers at gun shows-they are stolen, quite a bit of the time. On top of that, a corrupt government in Mexico supplies the cartels with US made automatic weapons (sold, not from the ice cream truck on the corner, as the NYT would have you believe, but by the state department to the Mexican army), and they also purchase plenty of actual machine guns from other south American countries.

After all, why buy an 800+ dollar semi-automatic rifle from a dealer or even a private individual when you can steal them or buy full auto weapons from a corrupt individual in the Mexican army-or buy AKs, grenades, grenade launchers and RPGs from Venezuela? The much touted "90% of guns in Mexico are traced back to the US" number is malarkey. Of the firearms that are submitted to the ATF for a trace, a fair percentage trace back to the US. No denying it. However, what you don't hear is that only about 20% of the weapons siezed are submitted for a trace-because the rest of them are obviously either stolen from the Mexican government (which came from the US, but griping about those would be an embarassment and admission of rampant corruption) or are from countries like China or Russia and are smuggled in by the cartels, either directly into Mexico or through south America. I think the actual number of guns siezed in Mexico and actually traced back to the US is around 12 percent. Substantially less than the headline grabbing, teeth gnashing, hysteria inducing, and completely bullshit 90%.

But I digress.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. While there may be crime spikes in Phoenix and Tucson, hasn't the trend...
in crime along the border been down? I haven't seen any data which suggests that U.S. border cities have had serious increases in crime. El Paso is notably low in violent crime (and has been so for years), save for a few "flyer" rounds from Juarez. Have you seen any data supporting "...the border is a war zone"?
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Good for Tampa
It was or is one of the most dangerous cities in the country.
see this

http://www.morganquitno.com/cit05pop.htm

Looks about even on states with stricter laws and those with less. For safest metro areas, I see, Wisconsin has the most. Looks like state gun laws don't have that much to do with violence in cities.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
22. Asshole needs to be kicked out of office.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Please move to Columbus Ohio
so you can kick the asshole out of office with your vote.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. I left Ohio in 1969 and moved to Florida ...
best damn decision I ever made.

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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 01:01 PM
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30. Here's an example of Coleman's obvious mendaciousness:
Emphasis added.

Although Coleman also called for new state laws, such as background checks on people who buy weapons from private gun-show dealers, spokesman Dan Williamson said the mayor isn't seeking to impose Columbus' old rules on the rest of Ohio.

"The mayor's not asking to pass laws for Licking County or Hocking County or Delaware County," Williamson said. "He wants to pass laws within our borders for the city of Columbus."


He wants new state laws, but "...The mayor's not asking to pass laws for Licking County or Hocking County or Delaware County"

Suuure he isn't.

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
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