The Second Amendment’s Great Election Night

[shadowrider]

The Second Amendment had a great night on Tuesday. Across the nation, the right to arms is stronger than ever, and the stage has been set for constructive reforms in 2011.

U.S. Senate: The net result of Tuesday was a gain of +6 votes on Second Amendment issues.

In not a single U.S. Senate seat did the gun control lobby gain ground. Three open seats switched from anti-gun to pro-gun: Ohio (Rob Portman replacing George Voinovich), West Virginia (Joe Manchin taking the seat of the late Robert Byrd), North Dakota (John Hoeven replacing Byron Dorgan). In Arkansas, John Boozman’s victory over Blanche Lincoln is a significant gain.

Seats with a partial improvement were Indiana (Dan Coats usually-but-not-always good, replacing always-bad Evan Bayh), Wisconsin (NRA A-rated Ron Johnson defeating C-rated Russ Feingold), Pennsylvania (solid Pat Toomey replacing inconsistent Arlen Specter).

If Dino Rossi wins Washington (he currently trails by 14,000, with 62% of the vote in), that will be another important pickup.

There are now enough votes in the Senate to defeat a filibuster on pro-gun bills. Significantly, Harry Reid’s victory in Nevada means that pro-gun bills have a chance of being brought to floor, or offered as amendments to other bills. Had Reid been defeated, the Majority Leader would have been Charles Schumer or Richard Durbin, both of whom are highly-motivated and well-informed on the anti-gun side.

http://newledger.com/2010/11/the-second-amendments-great-election-night/

[joeybee12]

1. Yeah, you're right...shitty night all around...nt

[HillbillyBob]

3. Agreed and Im real tired of em already

They should bear in mind that Second Amendment belongs to us all...even dems have guns.

It has been the teabaggies that have been claiming that the left is trying to take their godam guns away, which is untrue. Then again given the loose grasp on reality most of these folks have they should not have guns.

[lawodevolution]

12. You just confirmed their fears

You want to disarm them for their political views.

[blue sky at night]

2. personally i find your post highly offensive...

is this some kind of sick joke, or are you?

[PavePusher]

5. On the gripping hand...

maybe you are completely missing the point.

Or you don't support the Second Amendment...

[Zoeisright]

7. You have no idea what the second amendment means.

You can have all the fucking muskets you want. Other than that, NO. Buh bye.

[Straw Man]

8. What the amendments mean?

You can have all the fucking muskets you want. Other than that, NO. Buh bye.

And you can all the freedom of the press you want as long as you're using only quill pens and manual printing presses with handset type.

It seems that you have already abused your right by posting on an Internet forum. Buh bye.

[ManiacJoe]

9. That post should have a drink warning!

:spray: :rofl:

If you are interested in educating yourself, feel free to ask questions.

[SteveM]

13. "Muskets?" You must have some idea what the Second means, right?

[spin]

15. Your opinion is irrelevant...

The Supreme Court has ruled.

:nopity:

[RSillsbee]

17. No, his opinion ISN'T irrelevant

It isn't correct but it is relevant

[spin]

42. Note that I was merely being polite ...

and tactful.

[friendly_iconoclast]

21. You have no idea what the first amendment means.

You can have all the fucking Gutenberg-type presses you want. Other than that, NO. Buh bye.

[DeadEyeDyck]

63. touche

[Glassunion]

25. Sorry, try again.

[PavePusher]

40. What? You mean you didn't write that with a quill pen on parchment?

You can have all the fucking horse-delivered postal service and hand-set-type news sheets you want, amiright?

[X_Digger]

56. And the first only applies to hand-crank presses? *headdesk* n/t

[cleanhippie]

78. What is a "fucking musket" ? Do you have a pic?

And I think it is YOU that has no idea what the 2A means, considering the post you just made.

[blue sky at night]

19. oh i don't give a rats ass about the fucking second amendment...

and I wish some of you pro-gun folks would get just a little arroused when things like the FIRST Amendment get fucked in the ass!

Guns, what are they good for? absolutely nothin!

[Glassunion]

23. I do... I just post about it in different forums.

[friendly_iconoclast]

24. You'd better start giving a rat's ass about ALL the amendments....

... cause there's plenty of people who would be happy to deprive you of the benefits of the ones you do like.

And some of them just got elected to office...


Leave the false dichotomies and cafeteria Constitutionalisms to the teabaggers.

[blue sky at night]

26. dont tell me what to do or what to care about...

we are already are there dude, or were you out on the gun range during the bu$h years?

[Glassunion]

28. What other right do you not give a rat's ass about?

*Side note*

I appreciate your honesty.

[blue sky at night]

29. get off your high horse....

i am so sure that every single time any of our "rights" are being threatened you are out in the street with a pitchfork........

[Glassunion]

31. Pardon me...

Can you tell me more about myself?

How do I feel about the following and what have I done or not done about the issues listed below?
Gay Rights
Racism
Veterans
Environment
Abortion
Disabilities
Drug Policy
Health Care
Women's Rights
Education

Go ahead, I dare you...

[blue sky at night]

34. oh my god, you are a piece of work...

how dare you even compare them...HOW DARE YOU!

[Glassunion]

35. Perhaps you should re-read the posts...

In post 29 you stated:
"get off your high horse.... i am so sure that every single time any of our "rights" are being threatened you are out in the street with a pitchfork........"

You implied with sarcasm that I do not care about any other rights. I furthered your comments by asking you about my stance on other issues that involved other civil rights.

Again... Where do I stand on these issues?

Gay Rights
Racism
Veterans
Environment
Abortion
Disabilities
Drug Policy
Health Care
Women's Rights
Education

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Glassunion]

37. I'm not the one accusing others of not caring about civil rights...

You have the audacity to question my commitment to civil rights and then insult me when you are posed with a tough question.

I know that my gun is safe, I'm wearing it.

Again, since you now have stated my education level... care to comment on my stance on these issues?

Gay Rights
Racism
Veterans
Environment
Abortion
Disabilities
Drug Policy
Health Care
Women's Rights
Education

[PavePusher]

43. Civil Rights are Civil Rights.

Self-defense, with the side-arm of your choice, is a Civil Right.

How dare you, sir...

[ileus]

50. ure right none of those matter without the 2nd

[Katya Mullethov]

51. I would contend it is the 10th in that regard

Odd we dont have too many debates about that, or a 10th ammendment forum , when it is the wellspring from which all these "ass fuckings" flow .

[cleanhippie]

80. Hahahaha! "HOW DARE YOU!" Hahahahahahaha

[RSillsbee]

54. Out in the streets w/ a pitchfork

No,no I'm not. I am ,however, using my first amendment rights to let my Representatives know what they must do to get (or keep) my vote. I remain active in the political process and i do my best to hold them accountable.

Alternatively, I could just bitch on an internet forum

Sentence structure

[AtheistCrusader]

59. Not with a pitchfork...

Brandishing a weapon is a good way to get shot.

[friendly_iconoclast]

30. The Bush cabal also didn't give a rat's ass about certain amendments

Like the Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth, for starters. Got PATRIOT Act or warrantless wiretapping or imprisonment without trial?

Is it OK to shit upon the parts of the Constitution you find inconvenient?


Me, I like the entire Constitution- and if someone tries to fuck with it, I'll call them on it no matter the label

they choose to apply themselves.

[blue sky at night]

32. oh, I see you care....

but what did you do...big fucking deal. WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN THEY ENACTED THE PATRIOT ACT??????????????????????????????




I hate guns, and if you don't like it tough.

[Glassunion]

39. What did you do? If you don't mind me asking.

[PavePusher]

44. You seem to be implying that they did nothing.

Where's your evidence?

I wrote many letters to my local papers and politicians.

Please note we are in a Dem-controlled government, and that shit still hasn't been repealed yet.

Where the hell is your false outrage when someones' Constitutional Second Amendment Rights are violated? What. Did. You. DO?!

[friendly_iconoclast]

53. What did I do when they enacted the Patriot Act? Well, amongst other things, I....

....realized that not all those willing to deprive others of rights out of fear and hatred are Republicans.


Any more questions?

[spin]

55. Most pro-RKBA posters have no problem with the fact that you hate guns ...

They do have a problem with the fact that you seem to feel that we are far right conservatives merely because we support RKBA and own and use firearms for legitimate purposes.

Believe it or not, the Second Amendment is a very liberal and progressive idea as is the First. The Second follows the First because that is the proper order of importance followed by all the other amendments in the Bill of Rights.

It might be enlightening for you to read a DU post on the subject "RKBA (Right to keep and bear arms): Is it, or is it not, a progressive/liberal value?" http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=346200&mesg_id=346200

[AtheistCrusader]

60. Then? I fought it. I got as many people to understand what it meant and what it would do.

And how it would harm ALL of us.
And I still am. Every chance I get.

What are YOU doing about it?

[pipoman]

66. Irrational much?

[Hoopla Phil]

67. Care to respond to this thread on your self admitted hate?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=346898&mesg_id=346898

[Callisto32]

76. Hmm, I was seventeen at the time...

I wrote letters to the congressmen since I would be voting in the NEXT election....

Actually I remember being "that crazy kid up on the stage screaming about how they are taking our freedoms away waiving a several-hundred page document wildly about his head and pounding on it for effect before opening it up to read the stuff he just screamed about."

I figured it wasn't a bad start for a kid.

In fact, that is probably the hardest I EVER protested any government action, including various gun-control measures.

[cleanhippie]

81. What did YOU do?

What exactly did YOU do?

[jazzhound]

57. "Guns, what are they good for? absolutely nothin!"

Cute little reference there, but an utter failure as an argument.

Two pro-"control" "scholars" (Philip Cook/Jens Ludwig) confirmed high numbers of defensive gun uses --- 1.5 million annually. Which means that according to two pro-"control" "scholars" there are roughly three times as many defensive gun uses as there are offensive gun uses. Google on *NSPOF* for verification.

You might want to loosen up that tinfoil hat of yours. :tinfoilhat:

[jazzhound]

75. Correction:

Flawed memory caused me to believe that there are roughly 1/2 million offensive gun uses when in fact there are roughly 1 million.

But keep in mind that Cook and Ludwig admitted that their figure and Dr. Gary Kleck's figure of 2.5 million defensive gun uses are within the margin of error --- and another reputable survey (Police Foundation Survey) came up with 2.4 million defensive gun uses annually. There is currently more plausible evidence supporting the estimate of 2.5 million DGU's annually than 1.5 million.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

72. sorry. the quote is: War! What is it good for? Absolutely nothin!

wars have been fought with sticks and stones. Guns can put food on my table.

[cleanhippie]

79. Hey, nice job. An honest admission on where you stand. I appreciate that.

Any other Constitutional rights you "don't give a rats ass about" ?

[sylvi]

69. Moties?

:)

[PavePusher]

70. Indeed.

:fistbump:

[shadowrider]

65. And what, exactly, do you find offensive about pro-2A people being elected? n/t

[virginia mountainman]

4. This is about the only silver lining that election night had for us

The most important point to remember now is, as reflected in the OP...

....There are now enough votes in the Senate to defeat a filibuster on pro-gun bills. Significantly, Harry Reid’s victory in Nevada means that pro-gun bills have a chance of being brought to floor, or offered as amendments to other bills......

The log jam is about the break...

[spin]

6. That's why I was glad that Harry Reid was reelected...

Personally, I believe the NRA should have endorsed him.

[onehandle]

10. It was a great night for guys who drive to DC with sniper rifles.

That much is true.

[Glassunion]

11. Please elaborate...

[friendly_iconoclast]

33. And while you're at it, can you elaborate on these?:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=346757&mesg_id=346759

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=346757&mesg_id=346767


It would appear some of your posts just might have a truthiness problem.

[SteveM]

14. If you are aware of such, please report to police. nt

[lawodevolution]

16. If they wanted to commit a crime they would do it anyway no matter what laws are passed

[Callisto32]

77. AAAAAND the anti-gunner advocates violence.

Vaguely shrouded, of course.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

18. Ohio got kinda hosed.

Strinckland was a good governer.
Kasich is a crook and old-school AWB type guy.

[Pullo]

22. Yeah, I'm not happy about that either

I agree, Strickland was a good governor. While there we're many reasons I liked him, his stance and actions on 2A issues were breath of fresh air. He did more to advance our rights than a succession of republican governors combined. *cough* Taft *cough*

[Pullo]

20. Wisconsin shall-issue CCW seems very likely

From the link in the OP:

In Wisconsin, a pro-rights Republican replaced a retiring Democrat who had twice vetoed concealed handgun licensing. Even while the legislature was under Democratic control, it came within a single vote of over-riding the veto. Both houses of the Wisconsin legislature went Republican last night, making it almost certain that Wisconsin will become the 41st to provide a fair, non-arbitrary system for law-abiding, trained adults to be issued permits to carry handguns for lawful protection.

[friendly_iconoclast]

27. Oh noes! There will be blood on the anatto-colored cheddar!

Well, somebody had to say it....

[Euromutt]

38. I for one am damn happy Rossi lost yet another race

Yes, yes, Patty Murray gets an F rating from the NRA-PVF, and I didn't vote for her in the primaries (I voted for a different Democrat), but presented with a choice between her and that prick Rossi, the choice was clear. While I consider myself a staunch RKBA proponent, other issues trump that particular consideration. A candidate's stance on (women's) reproductive rights is more important to me than his or her stance on the RKBA, and I'm sufficiently cynical that I read the phrase" family values" to mean "opposed to women's and LGBT rights," which is enough to prompt me to vote for the opposing candidate right there, and the RKBA can take a powder.

So yeah, maybe Tuesday's results were good for the RKBA, but at what cost to our other freedoms? As one guy on CalGuns wrote in his sig line, the problem with being pro-gun rights is that the left hates guns, and the right hates rights. I am under no illusion that the Teabaggers are interested in protecting or advancing anyone's rights but their own.

[PavePusher]

46. Bestest quote of the week!

"...the problem with being pro-gun rights is that the left hates guns, and the right hates rights."

:applause:

[friendly_iconoclast]

58. Sometimes, I have voted for someone with an F rating from the NRA

When it becomes a contest between a solid Democratic candidate and some reactionary, I'll go with the Dem.


I still want a Democratic candidate to support the Second Amendment, mind you. But as your example with Murray and Rossi

shows, sometimes you just have to tell yourself "We'll ,let's lobby them and hope they will see the light eventually."

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spin]

45. Why are you accusing us of not being Democrats?

For example The NRA endorsed 58 incumbent House Democrats in this election cycle. Obviously these politicians were pro Second Amendment.

Are they "pretend" Democrats?

Many Democrats oppose the Second Amendment and many don't. The number of Democrats who do support RKBA is growing rapidly as more and more gun owners realize that the Democratic Party is not anti-RKBA.

Perhaps you need to start a new party for all the anti-RKBA people and then you can require that all members hate the Second Amendment and want to pass draconian gun laws to ban and confiscate firearms.

[PavePusher]

47. You seem to be implying that supporting the Second Amendment...

is not a good quality in a Democrat.

Utter fucking bullshit, of course.

[Pullo]

48. "You People ....." LOL!

How inclusive of you.

I guess you'd rather all us 2A supporting Democrats can take our chips and go home.

[oneshooter]

52. You mean that "you people" should shut up and follow the party line? n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

61. Democrat? No. Never did.

I'm a Progressive. Try me, on any subject, any civil right.

Go ahead, I dare you.

[ileus]

49. sometimes there is a silver lining I suppose.

[AtheistCrusader]

62. The 'gun control' crowd is so powerless at this point, I'm glad we didn't lose Murray.

I can overlook her one foible, given all the good she does for WA. Rossi would have been a damn disaster. Not worth it, cost-benefit wise, to get a stronger 2A senator.

All the 'ban' groups are completely toothless at this point. I won't cut off my nose to spite them. Next election we have to protect Cantwell too. They'll be after her, no doubt.

[DeadEyeDyck]

64. with a Dad's that is now a celebrity body-guard

I am a strong supporter of the second amendment. Stats show that areas which permit gun ownership and carry have the least crime. It may seem counter-intuitive at first blush but the numbers have proven it out.

I am finishing grad school in Atlanta and doing a little interning at the CDC. Even they believe in gun ownership after conducting their own study.

This is not people walking around at the Ready. This is simply people being permitted to defend their lives.

[PavePusher]

68. Excellent comment!

:applause:

[lawodevolution]

71. it's not just about winning specific elections

It's about making democrats and republicans compete to be the most pro gun, that is when the 2A wins. The majority will go back and forth over the years and there's no way to avoid that.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

73. I think this is good news for Democrats.

take note candidates.

[jazzhound]

74. The election of Jerry Brown could spell good things for

California gun rights:

In the Supreme Court of the United States
NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION, INC., ET AL., PETITIONERS,
v. CITY OF CHICAGO, ILLINOIS, ET AL., RESPONDENTS.
OTIS MCDONALD, ET AL., PETITIONERS, v.
CITY OF CHICAGO, ILLINOIS, ET AL., RESPONDENTS.
ON PETITIONS FOR WRITS OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE SEVENTH CIRCUIT
BRIEF OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA AS AMICUS CURIAE IN SUPPORT OF PETITIONERS
EDMUND G. BROWN JR. Attorney General of California JAMES M. HUMES Chief Deputy Attorney General JONATHAN K. RENNER Senior Assistant Attorney General ZACKERY P. MORAZZINI Deputy Attorney General Counsel of Record
1300 I Street, Suite 125 P.O. Box 944255 Sacramento, CA 94244-2550 Telephone: [phone] Fax: [phone]
Counsel for Amicus Curiae

http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-11-23/bay-area/17182106_1_jerry-brown-gun-violence-prevention-high-court

JERRY BROWN
Written by Don B. Kates
Tuesday, 16 March 2010 08:14

I have been asked to comment on the up-coming CA gubernatorial election: Of the Republican candidate, an immensely wealthy woman named Whitman, I know nothing except that she is alleged to be anti-gun by some people who claim to know and that the allegation is not surprising to anyone.

SPECIFICS: Whitman recently gave an interview to the SF Chronicle in which it reported her as believing "tough gun laws like assault weapon bans and handgun control are appropriate for California." Under her stewarship of E-Bay it adopted a policy of refusing to advertise gun or ammo sales.

Whitman has no interest in meeting w/ gun groups to solicit their support; Whitman has supported Barbara Boxer; Whitman supports "environmental" lawsuits that are anti-hunting but makes no attempt to gain the aid of gun groups on environmental issues.

In contrast, I do know Jerry Brown. We went to law school together though we were not big buddies. And when I contacted him about supporting the pro-2d Am position in the McDonald case, he filed an influential pro-2d Am brief w/ the S Ct. I know that he personally made the decision to do this, overruling his staff; and he wrote the brief himself. (He is an able lawyer.) When he was assailed by anti-gun forces, his response was that the 2d am is a "civil rights issue."

This is not to say that Brown is "pro-gun." He just thinks – as does everyone rational and informed on the issue – that gun control does not help reduce crime; indeed, that it has nothing to do w/ crime.

Based on the foregoing, I unreservedly recommend Jerry Brown for CA governor.

(emphasis added)

[spin]

82. Interesting. I would love to see "shall issue" concealed carry in California ...

It's long overdue.