If the Egyptians all had guns like we do

[PhillySane]

This scene would be a lot worse. Thank god they only have rocks.

http://www.cnn.com/

[razorman]

1. If they had a right to guns like we do, they wouldn't have had a dictatorship for the past 30 years.

[Indydem]

3. +10000

THIS CANNOT BE POINTED OUT ENOUGH

They've had to live with a dictator for 30 years because they had no way to resist the abuses. Even organizing and talking about this type of revolt got you a one way trip to a torture dunguon.

The internet gave them the means and the information to plan this uprising.

[PhillySane]

4. This is a civil war now

Its the citizens fighting each other. Do you get that?

[onehandle]

6. I forget. When was that great armed uprising against Bush?

Good thing he was removed quickly. That could have gone on for eight years.

[PhillySane]

7. Yea

we sent his ass-a-packin didn't we?

[razorman]

10. Exactly. In our system, armed uprising isn't necessary. However bad an administration

might be, we know that we will soon have a chance to remove it, peacefully. In spite of our rhetoric about Bush, or the Repubs rantings about Obama, we have never had anything approaching a Middle-Eastern-type dictatorship. Behind all of it is the knowledge that we have one, final option if all else fails: armed uprising.
Thank God we have never had to use it. We have the world's longest, unbroken string of peaceful transitions of power (even the Civil War didn't stop it).

[one-eyed fat man]

17. silly question

If, as you appear to believe, all 'true Leftists and Progressives' hate guns, and only right wing loonies have guns, then, unless those on the left aspire to careers as bullet traps they, by default, yield to the right. Similarly, many on the left eschew military service as beneath them, and denigrate those who serve as right wing troglodytes. That soldiers have nothing in common and no sympathy for their causes or positions should not be a big mystery except to the terminally clueless.

And for all the hateful unconstitutional power grabs like the Patriot Act, the intrusiveness of Homeland Security, not only has the Obama administration not rolled back a damn thing, the abuse has gotten even more heavy handed.

[PavePusher]

23. You seem to have no understanding of how bad things have to get...

before an armed rebellion is both needed and desireable to enough people to have any chance at success.

I recommend a browse through some history books.

[onehandle]

26. Two big factors in the Egyptian uprising is the income inequality and the price of food.

Rachel reported the the income inequality ratio is worse here in the United States. Food prices are surging.

So where's the revolution?

[PavePusher]

57. Sorry, they don't seem to be keeping to your expected time-table.

Some things take longer than expected to ferment/foment.

Again, things have to be perceived as very bad. I doubt that you and an Egyptian would have the same scale of measurement of very bad.

Relativity, it's what's for breakfast.

[Statistical]

30. Exactly he didn't continue past his legal term did he?

Bush was many things but a dictator he wasn't.

[PhillySane]

38. What do you mean "legal term"?

Bush was never "legally" elected president. That's why this web-site exists today for you to express your opinions on these hallowed boards. He should have been driven out from day one.

Bush was NEVER a legitimate president.

[rrneck]

36. Or thirty. nt

[derby378]

39. Following over 30 years of increasing gun-control laws...

...which essentially cowed us all into submission, even though Bush blatantly stole the election. We were told to go along to get along and forget the last resort of the Founding Fathers, and now look what happened to us.

I know, Post hoc ergo proctor hoc. But maybe it's time for a second look at all the factors that allowed the Bush administration to happen in the first place.

[PhillySane]

41. So the assault weapon ban

was Clinton's way of protecting Bush from a violent uprising? Then Bush lets it expire once he's president? Where's the logic here?

Have a pretzel!

[benEzra]

62. The "assault weapon" non-ban

was Gingrich's ride into the Speaker's chair, which is why Gingrich quietly helped it pass conference committee, and gleefully let Dems take all the credit for it. Because he, unlike Clinton, apparently understood how broad the scope of the law was (even if it was only an inch deep), and the 1994 backlash was entirely predictable to anyone who didn't have their head in the sand or their fingers in their ears.

Personally, I don't see the AWB as being some big conspiracy; I think it can be totally explained by (1) the false perception that rifles were commonly misused, (2) the false perception that "assault weapons" were functionally something other than ordinary civilian firearms, and (3) the false perception that the law would only affect a tiny minority of guns and gun owners, rather than half the gun owners in the nation.

Clinton's mistake was the mistake of the entire Democratic Leadership Council; he/they assumed most gun owners are hunters, and that most gun owners wouldn't be affected by the non-ban. Those assumptions were wrong, but that's what happens when you decide that the minutiae of the debate are beneath you; you end up unable to gauge the scope of what you're advocating.

[DainBramaged]

42. So are you saying that if you don't like OUR president, you can overthrow him because YOU are armed?

What bizarre logic...

[shadowrider]

2. Yea. Only the government has guns so they can shoot the people with rocks. Good plan n/t

[onehandle]

5. There is private ownership of guns in Egypt.

It's just not easy to hand them out at gun shows to people who admit they aren't eligible to own a gun like it is over here.

[shadowrider]

8. Tell you what. Go to a gunshow. Take an undercover camera with you

if you don't find anyone that just "hands them out" at the show, you're statement is unsubstantiated hyperbole with no basis in fact (And I'd expect you to retract it).

[PhillySane]

9. ?

For few hundred bucks...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x371037

[shadowrider]

11. Uh uh. The assertion was made they just "hand them out" n/t

[Hoyt]

12. 'Hand them out" means guns are easy to acquire. Try not being so literal.

Everyone else understood what the poster meant. Just like everyone understands what someone means by a "clip," when technically it's a "magazine."

[PhillySane]

13. You don't know how to speak Gunese?

Everything is literal. If you don't speak the language, you're not allowed to argue. :)

[Glassunion]

29. Would you like your doctor to refer to your liver as "that goopy thing"?

[SlimJimmy]

14. Actually that does bug me a bit. It really isn't a "clip", but that

term is used so often by "reporters" who should really know better.

[PhillySane]

15. Technical language

isn't the same as language. What is accepted by the general society. Try to understand. :)

[shadowrider]

16. I agree. Cars have 4 wheels. My trucks has 4 wheels, therefore my truck is a car n/t

[Hoyt]

18. That's a classic. Do all toters think like that?

Both are motor vehicles, as are motorcycles.

Again, most people knew what the poster meant. But thanks for the laugh.

[lawodevolution]

19. "toters" is that like the N word for gun owners. No lack of bigotry from you Hoyt

[Hoyt]

22. What's your preference for those who carry in public -- "fashionably acessorized with a gun"?

Why do you guys always claim to be discriminated against? And, no, "toters" is not anywhere near comparable to the "N" word unless guys have been lynched, denied access to education, can't apply for a job because of ethnicity, etc. Give me a break.

[PhillySane]

25. Don't forget...

...your freedom completely kept out of the first draft of the constitution!

[cleanhippie]

28. Yet put IN the FINAL draft!

You know, the one that IS the US Constitution. SO, uh, what was your point?

[PhillySane]

40. It only took 78 years to get that one right.

Seriously, bro. Actually, I think its still a work in progress.

[cleanhippie]

55. Seriously, Bro, that part is not gonna change

regardless of how you feel about tit, the Second Amendment has been strengthened several times, many in just the past few years, so it is never going to get more restrictive or go away.
Thats not an argument, its the reality of the situation.

[Glassunion]

31. "toters" is not like the "N" word to me. As Larry King put it... I am an "N-Person"...

Toters is more of a feeble attack aimed at ego. Like when it is stated that we carry guns to compensate for other "shortcomings"... But if that were the case why the hell do they sell guns with 2.5 inch barrels?

[shadowrider]

32. The shorter the barrel the bigger the bang?

:shrug:

[Glassunion]

35. It all boils down to suitability...

Sure you can have a longer barrel which will add to velocity and that velocity will transfer into energy along with the weight and size of a bullet.

But... A longer barrel is not always suitable for the task at hand...

[shadowrider]

45. I gotta work on my delivery. There was a joke in there somewhere

you appear to have missed.

[ZombieHorde]

59. Trucks are cars.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/car

And this is even more interesting...

Where Did the Word Car Come From?

As far as patents go, car always meant railroad car but along about 1904 automobile manufacturers started using "touring car" as a body style description.

That said, Word and Phrase Origins states that "the word car comes from a Celtic word that sounded like karra to Julius Caesar, who gave the name to his chariots. Karra later was Latinized to carra. Surprisingly, the word car appears first around 1300; carriage evolved from it, then horseless carriage, and, finally, back to car again as a shortened form."

http://www.horseless.com/firstcar.html

[benEzra]

33. If you stood up in a meeting about your local airport...

and talked about the need to reduce noise from the "propellers" of jet airliners, how seriously do you think your arguments would be taken?

"Gats" can use "clips", yes. The people who carry "gats" with "clips" also drive "Slades", wear "ice", and drink "40". But it is not being pedantic to point out that using such terminology only undermines your side of the argument; magazine is no more a technical term than firearm is, and that confusion makes people on your side look like they're repeating MSM talking points. I'm not saying you are, but that is the perception such usage creates.

[PhillySane]

43. You may be a little too wrapped up

in your own culture. Most people don't have a gun. Many gun owners just aren't into it as much as you may be. Yet you expect everyone to have all their terminology down to a tee before they're even allowed to discuss the issue with you. Poppycock!

You don't need to know every technical term about computers in order to use one. Or decide whether or not they're good for us all.

Please.

[shadowrider]

44. No, you don't need to know every technical term to use one

but if I took mine into a repair shop and he said I needed a new CPU (while pointing at the screen), I'd haul ass.

If someone intends to intelligently urge a ban or a restriction on something, the very least they can learn is exactly what they are trying to ban or restrict.

[benEzra]

56. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other what term you use...

and your side using terms like "gats" and "clips" and "heat" hurts your side of the debate, not mine.

You're also correct that you don't need to know the difference between a "keyboard" and a "mouse" to use a computer, or to express your opinion about banning computers, but the opinion will (IMO) carry less weight than it might otherwise.

[one-eyed fat man]

20. Do you live in the same Philly?

The one with the Catch & Release" program for cop-killers? The one where the city constantly passes gun ordinances in violation of state law so grandstanding politicians can deflect criticism for plea bargaining away state gun charges on career criminals?

What I can't understand is why you tolerate inept, incompetent and corrupt prosecutors and their catch and release policies. It's not not like Philly has a shortage of criminals and they need to "throw some back" so the cops have someone to catch. They get some predator who has been robbing people and carrying illegal weapons for years; arrest him, bail him countless times and are surprised he is still robbing and shooting people.

You are screaming for new gun laws while YOUR PROSECUTOR routinely lets the scumbags walk on the carloads of gun violations. Think about it, what could be easier? All you have to prove is the thug is a crook and was carrying a gun. The asshole has a 23 page rap sheet, the cops took a Glock from his pants pocket. Send the bastard away for 20 years, "NEXT!"

Lets look at how Philadelphia handled the three assholes that killed Sgt. Liczbinski.

Howard Cain was the trigger man. You can see his fifteen page criminal record here. Howard Cain
Look at all the violations of the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act that Cain has been arrested for. Keep in mind, these are only gun charges. Over Cain’s criminal career he had thirteen arrests for unlawfully carrying a firearm, that were listed "Nolle Prossed," meaning the prosecutor chose not to bring charges. In a further eleven arrests for violations of Pennsylvania’s firearms laws, the charges were either withdrawn or dismissed. In only three cases was he prosecuted and either plead guilty or was found guilty. On weapons charges alone, he could have done 12 years in prison, in which case he would not have been on the streets to kill a police officer.

You can find Levon Warner’s criminal record here. Levon Warner
His is only six pages. Warner is facing three charges for being a felon in possession of a firearm, and for unlawfully carrying firearms, in his latest arrest for conspiring to murder a police officer. Do you think Ms. Abraham’s office will make them stick this time? Previously, the Philadelphia DA’s office thrice declined to prosecute Warner for gun law violations. The Philadelphia judicial system chose not to try him for six other violations of Pennsylvania’s gun laws.

And last, but certainly not least, Eric Floyd. Eric Floyd
Again, hopefully this time, he’ll actually face weapons charges, in addition to the murder charges. But again, in 1994, he was arrested for robbery, and the prosecutors declined to prosecute him for carrying firearms illegally in two counts. Also in 1994, the courts declined to try him for two counts of carrying firearms illegally.

Now keep in mind, this is only weapons charges. The rap sheets of these scumbags total twenty six pages, and detail ruthless and vicious crimes that should have kept them off the streets for good. Maybe you should look at about how absolutely and utterly broken the City of Philadelphia’s criminal justice system is.

So now the city administration is again grandstanding to deflect attention from a system that is currently not using the laws already in the books in prosecutions. Don't you think you deserve better from your political leaders? You going to chime in with the chorus of witless supporters fighting hard to pass more gun "restrictions" the crooks won't obey and more importantly, your prosecutors WON'T ENFORCE?

Your city continually and routinely fails to prosecute career criminals on gun charges only to turn them loose on the streets to prey on society. They are turning coyotes loose in the hen house and you are wondering why you have dead chickens!

[shadowrider]

21. I can't wait to see him rationalize new laws after that n/t

[PhillySane]

24. Well

I guess you just diverted us to another discussion.

I'm all for sending people away and keeping them locked up, ESPECIALLY, if they commit a crime with a weapon, and that includes carrying an illegal one.

[one-eyed fat man]

27. Perhaps

But when you look at how the gun free Paradise your laws and your prosecutors have crafted for you is working it makes me wonder why you so vehemently want to inflict that failed bullshit on the rest of us?

[slackmaster]

34. Any Egyptian who has a clean background and wants a handgun can get one

A license is required. Personal protection is considered a valid reason for issuing a license. Open carry of a loaded handgun is allowed in most of the country.

[rrneck]

37. What if angels sat on pinheads...

The OP is a significant oversimplification. The underlying causes of social upheaval are numerous and complex, as are the underpinnings of a civil society. Guns won's save or damn any society in and of themselves.

Flamebait.

[PhillySane]

46. Apparently though

Egyptians don't feel the need to own as many guns as we do. Something like 3 or 4 per 100 people. We have just about 1 per person. Hmmmm.

[shadowrider]

47. I have two. n/t

[rrneck]

48. What's your point?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12349365
"Clashes have erupted in the Egyptian capital between supporters of President Hosni Mubarak and demonstrators calling on him to step down immediately.

Rival groups of protesters are fighting pitched battles in and around Cairo's Tahrir Square. Many people have been wounded and shots have been heard."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12350643
"Since I arrived here a week ago I have seen no significant demonstrations for President Mubarak.

But from the morning there were thousands of his supporters on Cairo's streets, mobilised presumably by the ruling party, the NDP.

The pro-Mubarak demonstrations were well organised, not spontaneous.

Numbered buses unloaded supporters. Many placards looked as if they had been made by professional sign writers.

Their opponents claim that they are paid to demonstrate."

In the words of nineteenth century robber baron Jay Gould, "You can always hire one half of the poor to kill the other half."

It's not over by a long shot and I would hazard a guess that there will be a lot of Egyptians who will wish they had firearms before it ends.

[PhillySane]

49. My point....

I don't know. Hundreds of thousands of people throwing rocks and molotov cocktails at each other, just having a political argument I guess.
Can't imagine what would happen if this was taking place in Arizona.

[rrneck]

50. Thank you.

There is not a point to be made here. The Egyptian people want a fair shake and they are going to have to fight for it. The scope of the fight and the strength of the resistance will be determined by a huge grab bag of factors.

Is it better that nobody get shot? Of course. But merely saying, "boy, it sure is a good thing there aren't many guns in that country or it would be a lot worse" before the fight is anywhere near over is, well, pointless.

Mubarak is moving in with hired political goons recruited from the civilian population. If I were to guess, that will give the military a sufficient fig leaf to rescind their promise to not use force on the civilian population and "defend" the hired civilians on Mubarak's side. Well see.

[PhillySane]

51. No, no point.

Jeez those rocks smart though, when they hit ya on the head. And, whoa, that cocktail you threw just set my pantleg on fire.

Thanks for not bringing your AK-47 to this party!

[rrneck]

52. Life is hard

And the sky is blue

[one-eyed fat man]

53. Good thing you wear wool or Nomex.

You ought to visit Brooke Army Medical Center. You might be less sanguine about what a Molotov cocktail can do.

[PhillySane]

54. Um

I was being facetious. But thanks for clearing that up for me anyway.

[one-eyed fat man]

61. You dismiss fire as a good way to kill?

A jilted boyfriend, a dollar's worth of Amoco regular and two matches, 87 incinerated in a matter of minutes. Many were overcome by smoke so quickly their charred corpses were found still sitting at their tables with glasses in their hands. A few survivors escaped by jumping through the flames, including the intended victim. It is still the most devastating mass-murder in American history after 9/11 and Oklahoma City. No shooter has come close.

[lawodevolution]

58. if the egyptians had guns, they'd be like yemen, so far the yemeni protests, same results as egypt,

no violence. no deaths.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x371902

[AtheistCrusader]

60. ka-blammo.