Why do Free Staters want to violate NH gun-free school safety zones?

[jpak]

http://freestateproject.org/news/media_archive/081309

<snip>

New Hampshire does not require a permit to openly carry a gun. When Kostric was asked by local police to step outside the thousand-foot weapons buffer zone around Portsmouth High School, he did so. "William was only exercising a natural right here in New Hampshire," says Pratt. "Probably it was a little bit insensitive." So why did he do it?

<more>

Even in "Live Free or Die" NH they have enough sense to ban weapons in or near schools.

Free Staters are sick nutbagging assholes.

yup

[LAGC]

1. And how, exactly, does a 1000-foot "buffer zone" stop crime from occuring inside it?

Do you really think someone intent on committing a felony such as MURDER is going to be dissuaded by a petty misdemeanor offense of violating such a buffer zone, assuming they were somehow caught before committing their dastardly deeds?

Might as well put up a big sign that says "All law-abiding citizens within this perimeter are unarmed and ready to be victimized."

yup

[jpak]

4. Well, for one thing, NH state gun laws should be respected and obeyed by "law abiding" gun owners

and those laws keep Free State Nutbags with guns away from NH schools.

Which is a good thing

yup

[LAGC]

6. If that's the case, then maybe the Free Staters aren't so "nutty" after all.

I don't think its them you should be concerned about, if they are willing to obey such a law.

Its the people who AREN'T beholden to the law that you need to worry about instead.

And I doubt those few people are going to wear the fact that they are "packing heat with ill intentions" on their sleeves.

yup

[jpak]

7. Free Staters are assholes and that asshole went out of his way to violate NH gun law

law breaker - not law abider

Free Staters suck

yup

[YllwFvr]

15. and if I live next to a school?

How do I walk out my door with my gun to go to the range? Or go hunting? In my state there is that same 1000 foot buffer, but here I am exempted if I have a permit to carry. I cant go onto school grounds but I can walk in the sidewalk in front of the school on my way to the gas station. If I leave my permit at home and Open Carry, I am breaking the law. Seems a bit silly. The law is to deter those who dont follow the law.

[jpak]

16. Find a friend or a storage locker or have the local police keep it for you.

Follow the law and you abide

If not

it's the Crowbar Hotel

yup

[YllwFvr]

18. Problem being

the courts have said its a right to have a firearm in your home for self defense. If you are in that buffer there is no way you cant break the law when you take it into your home. I imagine there would be some kind of right of way exempting them from the 1000 foot rule.

[jpak]

19. Police escort

yup

[PavePusher]

21. Right, cause that's a good use of my tax dollars.

You are well past tiresome.

[jpak]

23. Yeah - public safety and law enforcement are waste of $$$ - not

Free Staters are assholes that want to carry guns on school grounds

yup

[PavePusher]

25. Disingenuousness.

You don't wear it well.

I've carried guns on school property in Utah. Everyone was perfectly safe.

[jpak]

27. In "Live Free or Die" New Hampshire you'd be in jail for that

And I support those laws

yup

[PavePusher]

29. Yes, I know.

I'm from there.

Yup.

And the proposed change to the law is a good thing. It will still be against the law to commit criminal acts with a firearm on school grounds.

Yup.

You left tiresome a few miles back, and are deep into "annoying" territory. Good day to you.

[Euromutt]

39. "Within 1000 ft of a school" is not the same as "on school grounds"

Hell, 1000 ft is well outside effective range for a handgun.

And yeah, a law creating an exclusion zone like that doesn't provide any security; at best it provides "security theater." Theoretically, it creates a buffer in which a person with a weapon headed for the school could be apprehended before he reaches the school, but in practice, anyone intent on mayhem isn't going to obligingly announce the fact that he has weapons with him.

[jpak]

47. Yeah - you should try to take a gun into a NH school and test that hypothesis

and hope the judge grants you bail

yup

[Euromutt]

54. You're still conflating "within 1000 feet of a school" with "on school grounds"

Or, in your post above, inside a school.

Would you dispute that if a person were intent on inflicting mayhem at a K-12 school, that person would more likely than not be quite capable of traversing the 1,000-foot exclusion zone and making it onto school grounds while in possession of a firearm? Say, by carrying it inside a motor vehicle. Note that I say "onto school grounds"; not necessarily into a school building, at least not yet.

If you would not dispute this, it logically follows that you must accept that the 1,000-foot exclusion zone is mere security theater. The only people who are going to get stopped are those who obligingly carry openly. Don't count on your average school shooter to be so accommodating to the police.

If you would dispute this, you're going to have to explain how it was possible for Barry Loukaitis (Frontier Middle School, 1996), Michael Carneal (Heath High, 1997), Mitchell Johnson & Andrew Golden (Westside Middle School, 1998), Eric Harris & Dylan Klebold (Columbine High, 1999), Thomas Solomon (Heritage High, 1999), Jeffrey Weise (Red Lake Senior High, 2005), Eric Hainstock (Weston High, 2006) and Charles Roberts (West Nickel Mines School, 2006) were able to reach the grounds of--and in most cases, enter--K-12 schools despite traversing the 1,000-foot exclusion zone with long guns (in each of these cases, at least one rifle or shotgun was used).

For my own part, I have been able to pass through the 1,000-foot exclusion zones on numerous occasions while carrying a concealed handgun without once being stopped by a police officer or sheriff's deputy demanding to see my carry permit (which I possess, and without which I would be in violation of the law).

[PavePusher]

22. Constitution.

It would behove you to refer to it once in a while.

Yup.

[jpak]

26. The Constitution is there to protect my FREEDOM

Freedom from Free Stater assholes who want guns everywhere and anywhere for political intimidation.

It protects me from THEM.

yup

[PavePusher]

28. Go back to school.

You slept through history class.

[jpak]

30. Really? - don't think so

Freedom from authoritarian Free State nutjobs is what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they wrote the Constitution.

yup

[PavePusher]

31. "authoritarian Free State nutjobs"

You saw it here first folks.

Sometimes the foaming-at-the-mouth bunch here really astounds me.

[jpak]

33. Free Staters want to take over NH so they can create their authoritarian RW nut-job paradise

yup

[Callisto32]

53. Just so you know...

libertarian and authoritarian are antonyms.

[armueller2001]

55. He also called them anarchists...

lol

[YllwFvr]

36. the right for them to bear arms is listed

your right to be free from intimidation isnt.

[rl6214]

42. More like freedom from anti gun assholes

That want to take my rights away from me.

Keep the anti gun assholes away.

YUP

YUP

YUP

[mediator]

49. May I ask why you're obsessed with young urban professionals?

??

[jpak]

56. That's a stupid question - Free Staters suck

yup

[saras]

2. It's a rule. I have a gun. What more do you need?

[ClassWarrior]

3. True. If I have a gun, who needs rules? How's a silly little "buffer zone" going to stop me?

NGU.

[jpak]

5. Rules? We don't need no stinking school safety rules

Free Staters = anarchist gun toting nutbags

yup

[armueller2001]

48. Wait wait wait...

are Free Staters anarchists? Or are they authoritarians?

You've referred to them as both. Do you know what those terms mean?

[armueller2001]

52. Still waiting for a reply

You've referred to free staters as "anarchists" and "authoritarians". Which is it?

[rrneck]

12. It would stop you no matter what you have

unless it's criminal intent.

[YllwFvr]

17. yes, how is it going to stop you?

[elias49]

8. They may have sense to keep guns away from schools, BUT

there's a push on in the NH House right now to permit the open carry of loaded guns into the State House.
Idiots.

[jpak]

9. Here in Maine - if you want Saturday audience with our new teabagger governor

You have to submit your petition in advance

Get OKed (no "special interests" allowed - except for the "right" kind - lol)

Go through a background check

and

a submit to a weapons search.

Which I agree with - there are too many nuts with guns - and no governor - teabagger, republic, independent or Democratic - should be placed in danger from these assholes while conducting his/her office.

yup

[mediator]

34. Gotta admire your courage supporting a teabagger governor.

...

[X_Digger]

10. Works in Austin..(well, concealed rather than open)..

.. but Texas doesn't have 'open carry' at all.

[PavePusher]

24. What, exactly , is wrong with that? n/t

[lawodevolution]

11. Another bigoted thread, I guess you think bigotry wins hearts and minds here

[jpak]

14. Freee Staters are assholes - no bigotry needed

yup

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. Strange shit going on in the Granite State lately.

The state is declining back to a RW pit.

[PavePusher]

20. Why do you think that school-zone gun bans...

will keep criminals from doing criminal things?

Seems like something only "sick nutbagging assholes" could believe.

[jpak]

32. Gun-using criminals do not obey any law - but those laws keep those law breakers in jail

where they belong

yup

[mediator]

50. Which also explains why all child-molesting priests are in jail.

I see.

[PavePusher]

57. If I merely walk past a school, with a gun in a holster...

presenting no threat to anyone...

Why do you wish to create a crime to convict me of? What is it that I did that was a danger to others?



If I drop off my child, or pick her/him up, or attend a play or parent/teacher conference, while armed, but without engaging in harmful actions, why do you want me to be put in jail for non-harmfully exercising a Civil Right?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

35. Isn't it a federal law (not NH law) that clinton signed in 1995?

If you don't have a stte issued permit to carry... then you cannot carry within 100ft of a school?

[oneshooter]

37. That law was, I believe, declared null and void

By SCOTUS. Something about not covered by the commerce clause as stated by the AG.
In Texas as a CHL holder I can walk onto school property armed, but I can not enter any school owned buildings.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

38. The 1990 law was declared uncontitutional.

The 1995 law Clinton signed changed a few words to the effect the ecact same ending... :

Technically, without a same state issued permit, you can't carry w/in 1000 feet of any K-12 school.
This means out of state permits don't work either.

[Euromutt]

40. As far as I'm aware, exclusion zones in and/or around schools are a matter of state law

Washington state law prohibits carrying on K-12 school grounds (except for CPL holders while dropping off or picking up students), but there's no 1000-foot exclusion zone here, for example.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

44. Are you sure it's not federal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990
I'm pretty sure it's a federal law...

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.


(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

(iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.


(3) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone. (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;

(iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or

(iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity.

(4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.

[Euromutt]

45. Good heavens, I do believe you're right!

Silly me. You'd think that if the SCOTUS struck a law down as unconstitutional, the exact same law, only with the words "that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce" written in in crayon, would also be unconstitutional. Because otherwise, it would follow that the federal government would have the authority to legislate any activity involving any good that has ever been moved in interstate commerce; e.g. Congress could make it illegal to drink orange juice "that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce" on Tuesdays, and that would apply just about everywhere except Florida and California!

Damn, I wouldn't be surprised if I'd occasionally transported a long gun--unloaded but not in a locked container--through a school zone or two, e.g. while bringing it home from the gun shop (when it's still in the cardboard box).

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

51. I know....

And just think about all the states that have permitless open or concealed carry!
OH, VT, AK, AZ, etc...

Since there's no permit... it's against the law. I can't believe the commerce covers where you can carry a firearm in your state since interstate commerce has NOTHING to do with where I carry within a state.

[rl6214]

41. Why didn" you hi-lite this part?

When Kostric was asked by local police to step outside the thousand-foot weapons buffer zone around Portsmouth High School, he did so.

This shows me that he didn't "want to violate NH gun-free school safety zones"

[Euromutt]

43. Unstated premise: that buffer zones provide safety

Let's not try to kid anyone: they don't. They're security theater. Theoretically, they create a zone in which a person intent on committing mayhem at the school could be intercepted and apprehended, but given the limitations imposed by the Fourth Amendment on the police's power to search citizens at random (even with a Terry stop, the officer in question has to be able to point to “specific and articulable facts” indicating that a crime has just been, is being or is about to be committed), the chances of that ever happening are vanishingly small. In short, the only people who are actually going to be intercepted are those who obligingly carry their weapons openly and thereby attract police attention. Exactly the kind of behavior you would not expect from a prospective mass shooter.

[kudzu22]

46. I only support criminal laws that punish inherently evil acts

Shooting children is an inherently evil act.

Being 999 feet away from a school with a gun is not an inherently evil act.