U.S. should follow Canadian example of tougher gun registration

[jpak]

http://www.news-press.com/article/20110221/OPINION/102210323/1015/opinion/U-S-should-follow-Canadian-example-tougher-gun-registration

Taking on the gun lobby is an exercise in futility. No politician - Democrat or Republican - will risk having the powerful National Rifle Association (NRA) campaign against them at election time. It would have been a losing battle especially in the face of the 2008 Supreme Court 5-4 majority opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller which held that the second amendment was not limited to a "well regulated Militia" but secures an individual's right to own firearms.

In Florida, as in the rest of the nation, most gun shootings and homicides take place in urban areas, in domestic disputes or where those involved in the shootings know each other. Still the fear of crime or assault is real so Florida, along with most states, enacted a CCW (carrying concealed weapon) law. While requirements vary in different jurisdictions, Lee County requires a background check, fingerprints, the registration of the weapon and a written test. Currently, about a million Floridians have CCW permits.

Now, state Senator Greg Evans, a strong NRA supporter, wants to take it a step further and has submitted a bill that would permit "open carry" of weapons. Since many other states permit "open carry", there is a strong likelihood that the legislation will be approved this spring, along with additional legislation prohibiting any of the state's 67 counties from passing their own gun regulations such as banning "open carry".

Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott, sharing the opinion of the vast majority of the state's sheriffs, stated, "Allowing people to carry pistols in their holsters, like the old Wild West days, is dead wrong. It will result in more shootings and make our deputies' job more difficult and more dangerous". The sheriff, reacting to a recent school board shooting in Florida, lamented the fact that, "The time is not far away when all our public meetings will require metal detectors and armed guards to protect officials from a mentally unbalanced individual with a gun."

<more>

[virginia mountainman]

1. LOL!!!....

NO....

[damntexdem]

2. Hell, just follow the policies of towns in the actual "old wild west."

Check the guns at the town limit, to be picked up on the way out.

[friendly_iconoclast]

4. That was only for the bad parts of town- the 'nice' people still got to carry.

Just like it is today, in many places...

[beevul]

20. You DID say policies...

You DID say policies, right?


Cash and carry of guns at retail.

No background checks.

Legal to saw off your shotgun.

Legal to silence or suppress your firearm.

Those WERE the policies in those towns in the actual "old wild west."


Probably not what you want, right?

[lawodevolution]

25. For anti gun activists racism and classism is ok if it involves gun ownership

Or should I call them the constitutionalists minus one or the BOR minus one supporters.

No wait...minus two


“The First Amendment in the U.S. basically entitles anyone to any lies they want as long as it’s in the name of politics.”
-Rebecca peters, gun control activist

[friendly_iconoclast]

3. OMFG! There'll be blood at the early-bird specials!

And this proposed gun registry- Would that be as effective as the Canadian one is?

Which is to say-not very much at all...

[Glassunion]

5. Who many lies can we find in the article?

I found a couple...

"there are about 100,000 non-fatal gunshot injuries annually"
Overall Firearm Gunshot Nonfatal Injuries and Rates per 100,000
2001 - 2009, United States via CDC WISQARS

2001 63,012
2002 58,841
2003 65,834
2004 64,389
2005 69,825
2006 71,417
2007 69,863
2008 78,622
2009 66,769

I guess the word "about" is the key... By that logic I would have used bigger numbers... "There are about 4,000,000 non-fatal gunshot injuries annually"

[friendly_iconoclast]

8. Don't forget to add "...most by means of 30 round magazines and .50 caliber sniper rifles."

[Bold Lib]

9. You mean those heat seeking 50 caliber bluets?

[Glassunion]

11. The thing with the thingy should be banned... Don't know what it does, but its bad...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. YOu mean the one Canda is looking to abandon as an ineffective money pit?

Our friends to the north know a bad idea when they see it

yup yup

[Bragi]

32. Thanks for the Harper neocon line on that

Sad news for you: the majority of Canadians favour continuation of the registry. The neocon minority government of Stephen Harper (elected with 37 per cent of the vote) wants to end the registry.

A majority of MPs in Parliament, however, has blocked that from happening. The registry lives on, much to the consternation of the right wingers who wanted it closed.

And just out of curiosity here, "Progressive Professor", is there a posting you can point me to on DU where you actually express a position on any issue that might be construed as "progressive"?

[Spoonman]

7. Canada?

How many times must it be demonstrated here that Canada's gun control and registration programs have failed to reduce crime?

Please, don't let ANYTHING like FACTS sway your opinion.... some of us need the daily laugh your posts provide.

[-..__...]

10. I give you, Sheriff Mike Scott...

a man you can trust and respect...

Fla. Sheriff Plays The "Hussein" Card At Palin Event; Campaign Calls Remark "Inappropriate"
From CBS News' Scott Conroy:
Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott took the stage moments ago as one of the introductory speakers at a rally here for Sarah Palin. After delivering brief remarks in support of Palin, Sheriff Scott flipped the switch and used Barack Obama's middle name in order to incite the crowd of thousands of people who have already gathered here.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-502443_162-4504484-502443.html

Immigration laws: Law enforcement says bills wouldn't change checking citizen status

Requiring officers to check immigration status of anyone stopped in traffic would be expensive, Indian River County Sheriff Deryl Loar said. Law enforcement agencies, like other areas of government, already took a hit in the recent recession.

“We are continuing having to do more with less,” Loar said.

Lee County deputies are already checking suspects’ immigration status, said Sheriff Mike Scott, who supports the bills and doesn’t understand the fuss. One of the most common phrases an officer uses during his career is “Can I see your ID?” he said. Officers don’t just walk away if a suspect doesn’t have identification.

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2011/feb/14/immigration-laws-illegals-florida-enforcement/

Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott is pushing back against unionization efforts at his agency and defending his choice of words on the issue.

A union proponent, meanwhile, said Scott is misleading employees.

In a Tuesday e-mail to county commissioners about an upcoming vote to unionize the Sheriff’s Office, Scott concluded with the following statement:

“In closing, I am reminded of a popular saying...Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered.”

http://www.marconews.com/news/2009/aug/13/lee-sheriff-scott-defends-pigs-reference-pushes-ba/

Sergeant files lawsuit against Lee County sheriff


LEE COUNTY: A sergeant at the Lee County Sheriff's Office filed a lawsuit against the sheriff. The lawsuit claims the sergeant was demoted because he tried to form a union in the department. But the sheriff's office is saying the sergeant was simply transferred.

The 14-page suit filed by Sergeant Jonathan Washer and the International Union of Police Associations points the finger at Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott.

It claims the sheriff was trying to keep the union out when he transferred Sergeant Washer out of his old job - a job Washer wants back.

http://www.abc-7.com/Global/story.asp?S=12738305

[pipoman]

29. Apparently the Op agrees with him...

Yup!

[spin]

12. There is no gun registration in Florida ...

The 2010 Florida Statutes

790.335 Prohibition of registration of firearms; electronic records.

(1) LEGISLATIVE FINDINGS AND INTENT.—

(a)The Legislature finds and declares that:

1. The right of individuals to keep and bear arms is guaranteed under both the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and s. 8, Art. I of the State Constitution.

2. A list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a law enforcement tool and can become an instrument for profiling, harassing, or abusing law-abiding citizens based on their choice to own a firearm and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution. Further, such a list, record, or registry has the potential to fall into the wrong hands and become a shopping list for thieves.

3. A list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a tool for fighting terrorism, but rather is an instrument that can be used as a means to profile innocent citizens and to harass and abuse American citizens based solely on their choice to own firearms and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution.

4. Law-abiding firearm owners whose names have been illegally recorded in a list, record, or registry are entitled to redress.
http://archive.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.335.html

The concealed weapons permit program is a state program not a county program.

Not long ago each county in Florida had its own laws on concealed firearms. The Florida legislature then decided that it was foolish to expect someone driving from Naples to Tampa to know every county law, and then have to change their behavior to accommodate that county's law as they went about their business. (* Before going forward please understand this article has nothing to do with federal law. We must always follow federal law.)

So the Florida Legislature gave us the Preemption Statute. It is brief, to the point and in my humble opinion leaves no questions:

"PREEMPTION.--Except as expressly provided by general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or regulations relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances are hereby declared null and void. This subsection shall not affect zoning ordinances which encompass firearms businesses along with other businesses. Zoning ordinances which are designed for the purpose of restricting or prohibiting the sale, purchase, transfer, or manufacture of firearms or ammunition as a method of regulating firearms or ammunition are in conflict with this subsection and are prohibited."

In short, this means that no county, city, or other state entity or political subdivision can, for any reason whatsoever, regulate or restrict firearm possession or transportation. Since concealed carry is one type of firearm possession, it cannot be regulated in any way shape or form by anyone or anything other than state law.
http://blogs.naplesnews.com/florida-law/2010/07/concealed-carry-law-which-part-of-null-and-void-dont-they-understand.html

I personally called the Lee County Sheriffs Office and asked them about any requirement to register a handgun to get a concealed weapons permit and was told, "There is no requirement to register a firearm in the State of Florida".

Registration serves no purpose except to create an expensive program that is a waste of money. Canadians have been trying to repeal that program for years.

Anti-gun registry MP draws supporters
Last Updated: Friday, February 18, 2011 | 4:25 PM AT
CBC News

Hundreds of people attended an anti-long gun registration rally Thursday in Windsor, N.S., led by Conservative MP Candice Hoeppner.

Hoeppner's attempt to repeal the gun registry was narrowly defeated in the House of Commons last year. She vows to keep the issue alive.emphasis added

"Canadians who are law-abiding citizens who are forced to register their long guns are still extremely upset and they want the long gun registry scrapped," she said.

The crowd at the rally was behind Hoeppner lock, stock and barrel.


MP Candice Hoeppner addresses a supportive crowd in Windsor, N.S. (CBC)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/02/18/ns-gun-registry-rally-hoeppner.html

The only logical reason is require firearm registration is to have a list available when you want to confiscate firearms.

Florida don't play that game.

[Glassunion]

13. Registration does nothing to promote public safety.

It is expensive and has not been shown to have a positive effect on public safety.

[RSillsbee]

14. I, Sarah Heath Palin,

do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

You just keep pushing for registration

[AtheistCrusader]

18. Goddamnit you're going to give me nightmares.

Stop that.

[Glassunion]

15. Holy crap! I re-read the article. I'm astounded by the author's willful mis-information.

Lies and misinformation bolded...

"While requirements vary in different jurisdictions(they do not... lie #1), Lee County requires a background check, fingerprints, the registration of the weapon(they do not... lie #2) and a written test.

Currently, about a million(actually 786,884... lie #3) Floridians have CCW permits."

"sharing the opinion of the vast majority(opinion stated as fact... lie #4) of the state's sheriffs"

"there are about 100,000(subtract "about" 40,000 from that number... lie #5) non-fatal gunshot injuries annually"

"but in Canada, where there are more guns per capita than in the United States, shootings still rarely occur because of more stringent gun regulations(opinion as fact... lie #6)."

At least the paper filed it under "opinion". I would have filed it elsewhere.

[X_Digger]

16. I believe the 'more per capita in canada' is also incorrect..

Michael Moore promulgated that turd, unsupported.

[Euromutt]

30. Got another one for ya

In Florida, as in the rest of the nation, most gun shootings and homicides take place in urban areas, in domestic disputes or where those involved in the shootings know each other.

According to the FBI UCR 2009, the number of homicides in which the victim was the perpetrator's spouse, child, parent, sibling, other family member, friend, boyfriend, girlfriend, neighbor, employer, employee or "acquaintance" was 5,974 out of 13,636; 43.8% is not "most."

Moreover, "acquaintances" make up 2,941 (49.2%) of those 5,974, and we all know that is a very nebulous category, comprising anybody who is "known to the victim" in some manner. That includes members of the same or rival criminal organizations as that of which the victim was a member, other members of the criminal circuit whom the victim "disrespected," and what have you. Hell, quite a few convenience store robberies are committed by people who are "known to the victim" in that they came in as customers a few times (partly to case the joint).

The impression that author wants to give is the debunked but remarkably persistent myth that a majority of homicides are cases of family members and friends flying off the handle and shooting each other in a fit of pique. In actual fact, once we factor out the "acquaintances," that applies to at most 22.2% of the victims. I say "at most" because the two single biggest categories of homicide victims within that category are wives and girlfriends, and we actually know (or, at least, those of us who bother to take an interest know) from criminological evidence that in over 75% of these cases, the murder is committed after the female S.O. has left (separated, divorced, broke up with) the man, and in over 50% of cases, the man is known to have stalked the woman prior to murdering her (which doesn't exclude the possibility that in some or all of the remainder, the man did stalk, but was not known to have stalked, his victim). These murders are not cases of men losing control; they are deliberate and premeditated, and they are committed as readily with knives, bare hands etc. as they are with guns. On average, in the United States, 40% of intimate partner homicides are committed by means other than firearms, and a higher percentage of male than of female victims are shot to death.

[one-eyed fat man]

17. Caution: Heads WILL explode!!!!

Guns Canadians can buy BUT YOU CAN'T in the US

[AtheistCrusader]

19. WTF is that first thing?

Biggest gas tube ever or what?

[-..__...]

21. The Grand Daddy of them alll...

German STG-44 (or I should say, a semi-auto reproduction of one)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StG_44

[AtheistCrusader]

22. That's so wierd.

I've never seen one before, or never noticed that protuberance on the gas block.

[one-eyed fat man]

23. The "original" assault rifle

StG-44, from it's name in German, "Sturmgewehr" which translated literally means "assualt rifle."

After WW1 the Treaty of Versailles prohibited the German Army from having a General Staff, they were, however, permitted to have a training office, the TruppenübungsAmt One of the things they considered was their experience in the Great War that the 98 Mauser was a fine rifle and in the hands of a competent rifleman effective on man-size targets at half a mile, most engagement by infantrymen were at a quarter of that distance or less.

They had the idea of reducing the size of the cartridge and buillding a select fire weapon. The idea was vetoed by Hitler, but the idea was to good to let go. The cartridge 7.92x33 was developed and the rifle was built but it was call MP-43 for Maschinepistole or submachinegun to conceal it's true nature.

At some point Hitler was supposed to have asked his Generals on the Russian front what they needed and the reply was some more of the new rifles. "What new rifles?" where upon Hitler was given a demonstration. He was impressed enough to rename it, "Sturmgewehr" and immediately order his personal guards, the Leibstandarte to be equipped with it.

The Russians were impressed enough to copy the cartridge almost immediately as the 7.62x39 M1943 even if the rifle most associated with it was not produced until two years after the war ended.

[beevul]

24. Registration at the federal level is un lawful in America...

Registration at the federal level is un lawful in America, per the FOPA of 1986.

Go ahead, repeal it.

[one-eyed fat man]

28. That would get their knickers in a twist

Once they figured out the Hughes Amendment gets repealed as well.

[beevul]

31. MMMhmmm.,

Stuck between a rock and a hard place, they are.

[lawodevolution]

26. All no gun zones should require strict security for entry or exit paid for by whoever

Decided to make the place a no gun zone or else I should be able to sue the hell out of someone who declares a no gun zone in which someone enters with a gun and shoots me.

"The time is not far away when all our public meetings will require metal detectors and armed guards to protect officials from a mentally unbalanced individual with a gun."

OMG. You might actually have to stop being negligent in protecting people in a no gun zone.

[rl6214]

27. AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

NOPE

NOPE

NOPE

[old mark]

33. Sorry, but Canada is not happy with their current laws, and many there are trying to repeal them.

Many Canadians find the laws way too restrictive and have been lobbying against them for some time now. I believe they will ultimately succeed in having their fascistic gun control laws repealed, at least in part.
I guess you all would have to find another example when that happens.

mark