Legislation to allow concealed handguns on Texas campuses worries Dallas-area students

[jpak]

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/headlines/20110221-legislation-to-allow-concealed-handguns-on-texas-campuses-worries-dallas-area-students.ece

Supporters of legislation that would allow students and faculty to carry concealed handguns at colleges and universities in Texas say their goal is to make campuses safer.

<snip>

“If the gun was out there, I would feel uneasy,” said Russell Ansley, a junior at the University of Texas at Dallas. “It could create an atmosphere of hostility.”

Phil Montgomery, a junior at the University of North Texas, said he’d rather see more security officers than ask students to pitch in.

“I don't feel I should have to take a gun in order to be safe at school,” he said. “Having an officer or two in a building would be more beneficial than having any kid that wanted to bring their own weapons to school"

<more>

There you have it

yup

[damntexdem]

1. And also Dallas-area faculty members, like me.

It should worry anyone connected with higher education anywhere in Texas.

We don't need guns to be safer on campus -- and when guns are allowed, we'll be much less-safe on campus.

[AtheistCrusader]

3. Utah and Colorado haven't had a problem with it.

Why would texas be different?

[jpak]

6. They don't want guns on campus - they poison the campus atmosphere with their presence

yup

[AtheistCrusader]

9. 'They' will decide so per appropiate legislative process.

Who are you to assume you know what 'they' want?

[jpak]

10. That is what "they" said about guns on campus - elect liberal democrats not stupid republics

Throw the bums out - the "appropiate legislative process."

yup

[AtheistCrusader]

11. We can't.

THEY can. If they want to.

[rl6214]

84. They (pro gun legislators) were elected for a reason

and one of those reasons was to support our 2nd amendment rights.

YUP

YUP

YUP

[jpak]

103. Progun Texas republics

yup

[rl6214]

117. Yes, Texas once was a republic, yes Texas is pro gun

Yes, the legislators were elected to advance these pro gun positions

YUP

YUP

YUP

[Katya Mullethov]

22. Moreso than a legion of "Marxist fuckstick" professors ...running their cock holsters non-stop ?

I seriously doubt that .

[jpak]

28. Marxist Fuckstick Professors! Non-stop Cock Holsters!!111

This is the best forum on DU

yup!

:rofl:

[jpak]

56. You make a good point - this is about intimidation and retaliation against "marxist" professors

yup

[Katya Mullethov]

123. Great idea . For immediate Tweeting .

Tell your friends you have discovered a new and powerful meme . A meme that will soon become a rising force in the right to not have guns around movement .

[Ken_Fish]

23. They didn't want Jews in Maine hotels for a while too.. Isn't Jew a choice

you could always choose not to be Jewish, I mean give up that right.

Times change.

Julie Miller Soros recalls going to the coast of Maine and seeing signs that said, “No Dogs, No Niggers, No Jews Allowed!” Similarly, Julie reminisces on trying to get a job as a teenager in one of the resort towns for the summer:

http://web.colby.edu/jewsinmaine/kennebec/recreation/

[jpak]

26. Stupid logic - stupid post

yup

[Ken_Fish]

32. Rights are subjective. You can always just choose not to exercise them

I mean unless the word "right" has a new meaning. It appears the law has interpreted the right to carry as extending to this area.

[jpak]

33. Yeah - rights are subjective - like student's rights to a gun-free campus

yup

[AtheistCrusader]

36. When I was a student, I'd have been perfectly fine with teachers carrying guns

if they elected to get the permits and obeyed the law.

Students, well... I've seen them carry without. :(

[jpak]

58. Most students and faculty do not want guns on campus

They don't

yup

[AtheistCrusader]

71. Source?

[rl6214]

88. "Most students and faculty do not want guns on campus"

Your opinion, and we know what opinions are like, don't we?

YUP

YUP

YUP

[jpak]

106. Faculty will respond by ending face-to-face interactions with students

They can text, email, Skype and lecture from remote locations.

All in the name of personal safety.

and they will

yup

[rl6214]

121. Sure they will, and you know this because

it has happened in all the other states that have allowed concealed carry on campus right?

Those special powers of yours again right?

Right?

YUP

YUP

YUP

[rl6214]

87. Yeah - rights are subjective - like student's rights to concealed carry on campus

Fixed it for ya

YUP

YUP

YUP

[PavePusher]

40. That's exactly what they said about blacks and women.

Good to know you can transfer a meme.

[Hoyt]

45. There you go again, equating carrying guns to civil rights for minorities, women, etc.

Now, that truly is a crock.

[AtheistCrusader]

52. Well, it IS a civil right.

[PavePusher]

54. "keep and bear".

Says it right there on the paper.

yup.

[PavePusher]

91. And yes, defense of self and community, is just as important as any other Civil Right.

However much that may offend you.

[Hoyt]

119. To you maybe. When you are denied a job, lynched, turned away from state colleges, etc.,

based upon ethnicity, then maybe.

Until then, I question your perspective.

[PavePusher]

129. I am denied access to both public and private property. Discrimination.

Done. What you got next?

[Hoyt]

134. I really don't feel sorry for you. Carrying guns in public isn't a universal civil right.

[PavePusher]

136. The paper it's on says it is. n/t

[Ken_Fish]

130. How about religion? I mean if a place says no jews, you can just give that up.

I mean religion is not all that important. They cover it in there somewhere, but hey no one would miss it. You can not practice a religion, no harm in that.

Ship has sailed... I would expect to see democrats supporting more measures that make concealed carry and gun ownership easier and legal.

Some people are still betting on flipping Roe, some Brown, but in reality they just need to adjust to the new normal.

[Hoyt]

135. Religion is different from your right to walk through a family restaurant with your gun hanging out.

[PavePusher]

137. How so? They're right next to each other on the paper... n/t

[Katya Mullethov]

141. You just need an attitude adjustment

Have you considered going hunting with your newly won rifle ? You could then preface each remark with :
"I hunt , and I know a retired volunteer fireman ...but we both think... " at that point there is very little anyone can do to counter any claim or opinion that you might then field . It does require an investment in both time , money , and energy , or you could just make the whole fucking thing up . Who the hell is gonna know anyway right ?

Fucking lasers , how do they work ? lol
http://gammasquad.uproxx.com/2010/07/science-for-juggalos

[Callisto32]

65. They do this of, of course, through g-rays.

They are the unfortunate result of the decay of a theoretical substance "gunmium" without which guns would not have their evil powers.

[rl6214]

83. They, WE, do wan't guns on campus

YUP

YUP

YUP

[Euromutt]

111. "They" being a handful of students whose opinions were included in the article

There's no way to tell whether that's a representative sample, and given the general thrust of the article, it's quite plausible that the authors specifically sought out students who don't like the idea, thereby biasing the sample.

If you're holding up this article as an example of how pointing out something blindingly obvious and not particularly interesting gets puffed up as "news," then yes, there you indeed have it.

[speltwon]

18. Why should it worry you

Why? Have you looked at actual evidence, the states that allow CCW on college campuses? If you looked at evidence, vs. rhetoric, you would see there is no reason to believe you'd be ANY less safe, let alone "much less-safe" if guns were allowed on campus.

[armueller2001]

37. I find it extremely humorous

that those who believe rights should vary by geographic location can not come up with a response to your query.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

Dozens of universities in the country allow concealed carry on campus. No blood in the streets...

Why not, jpak?

[PavePusher]

41. Ooooo, ask him for stats, do it...!

:evilgrin:

[rl6214]

89. What's that I hear?

crickets.

YUP

YUP

YUP

[PavePusher]

92. Very soothing before bedtime, ain't they? n/t

[Hoyt]

46. What -- Oral Roberts U; Bob Jones, and the like? Who cares if dozens out of two thousand allow it?

[X_Digger]

75. All of Utah and many in Colorado.. derp. n/t

[Glassunion]

99. Funny if you look at the states that allow college campus carry...

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=106407089558203422487.0004668531a8354556bee&ll=38.68551,-97.470703&spn=24.547635,79.101563

Alaska = No shootings
Colorado = No Shootings
Idaho = No Shootings
Indiana = No Shootings
Kansas = No Shootings
Kentucky = No Shootings
Minnesota = No Shootings
Missouri = No Shootings
Montana = No Shootings
Oregon = No Shootings
Pennsylvania = 1 Shooting in 1996
South Dakota = No Shootings
Utah = No Shootings
Virginia = 2 Shootings (1 school opted out of the law and had a no-guns policy - 33 dead, 25 injured, the other shooting was stopped by 4 students, two of which were armed)
Washington = No Shootings
West Virginia = No Shootings

[X_Digger]

104. *sniff* That one little red circle is my home town.

Course you'd have to give me a winning lottery ticket to get me to move back there..

[rl6214]

90. Soon to be the entire Texas university system

YUP

YUP

YUP

[Atypical Liberal]

124. How so?

and when guns are allowed, we'll be much less-safe on campus.

How so?

CCW permit holders in Texas are less than one-quarter of one percent of all convictions for all crimes for the last decade.

A CCW permit holder in Texas is many many times less likely to commit any kind of crime, let alone a firearm-related crime, than a non-CCW permit holder.

How would such people make a campus less safe?

[NewMoonTherian]

133. One year after campus carry passes, I will remind you of this comment.

"<...>and when guns are allowed, we'll be much less-safe on campus."

I hope you'll be willing to take stock of the validity of your baseless prediction at that time.

[shadowrider]

2. At the same time, tuition hikes to actually PAY for those additional officers

wouldn't be tolerated.

yup
yup
yup
yup
yup
yup
yup
yup
yup
yup
yup

[jpak]

5. Tax guns and ammo & pay higher CCW license fees to pay for campus cops

Gun toters should pay - not students

yup

yup

yup

[AtheistCrusader]

12. We already pay significant excise tax on ammo, over sales tax.

But you knew that, right?

Tell me you have some clue of existing firearms taxes, right?

[jpak]

15. Pay more taxes for campus cops to prevent campus gun chaos

yup

[AtheistCrusader]

21. I'll enjoy moving EMT costs for traffic accidents being moved to auto owners

being that I use the bus and bike. I like this concept of yours. No need for me to be paying for those EMT costs out of my property taxes.

[jpak]

29. EMTs don't cause traffic accidents - but they will need EMTs to respond to campus gun chaos

so jack up gun and ammo taxes even more to pay for them too

yup

[rl6214]

98. "but they will need EMTs to respond to campus gun chaos"

again, please cite your sources. I'll wait,

and wait,

and wait.

YUP

YUP

YUP

[jpak]

110. When the extremist gun lobby successfully floods college campuses with guns

Students will be injured and killed by those guns

yup

[rl6214]

125. Sources, cite

crickets

crickets

crickets

[rl6214]

139. Still waiting

and waiting

and waiting

and waiting

[PavePusher]

42. Yes, let's tax Civil RIghts. Poll tax to "pay for elections", O.K.? n/t

[jpak]

59. Civil rights won't kill you - guns will

yup

[Glassunion]

63. Tell that to all of the innocent families that were caught up in two pointless wars...

Voting never hurt anyone...

[PavePusher]

94. Incorrect: Abuse of Civil RIghts can kill. n/t

[rl6214]

95. Please cite some examples of "campus gun chaos"

caused by concealed carry on campuses.

Please go ahead and look for it, I'll wait,

and wait

and wait.

YUP

YUP

YUP

[rl6214]

93. How's it going to feel when this law passes?

Because that's all the gun controllers have to offer is feelings when it comes to gun facts.

YUP

YUP

YUP

[jpak]

112. I don't live in Texas anymore so it won't affect me at all

but you can bet yo' bippy that Texas parents will be sending their kids to out-of-state colleges where this insanity does not reign.

and I will be able to watch Texas campus chaos on the TeeVee from the safety of my own home far away.

yup

[Hoyt]

14. I'm all for watching football games with armed spectators, and maybe even players.

The post about binge drinkers is right on target too.

[X_Digger]

30. It wouldn't affect sports venues..

derp derp derp

[AtheistCrusader]

31. Why yes, all binge drinkers will have concealed weapons permits.

Sure.

And first infraction they commit, with or without the gun, and they lose the permit.

You know it's illegal to imbibe alcohol while in possession of a firearm, right?

[jpak]

34. So what are "acceptable casualties" - 1, 10, 100 dead?

:shrug:

[AtheistCrusader]

35. What are acceptable infringments on inalienable rights?

hurf durf.

[jpak]

55. Yeah - like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that these folks don't respect

Students should not have to be subjected to guns on campus.

yup

[Glassunion]

57. What do you mean "more guns"?

If they are illegal to posses on campus now, than there should not be any at all. Right?

[beevul]

60. If the campus accepts federal dollars...

If the campus accepts federal dollars, the second amendment applies.

[jpak]

62. So do the 9th and 10th - freedom from gun toters

yup

[beevul]

66. Nice try.

If the campus accepts federal dollars, they cease to be a private entity, and the second amendment applies.

You can have all the freedom from gun toters you want - in your own home.

Elsewhere? Not. So. Much.

Yup


Yup.


Yup.

[jpak]

68. Gun toters can surrender their weapons to the campus police and pick them up when they leave

That's what they did to end the "wild west" gun chaos back in the day.

yup

[beevul]

72. Get on it Ahab.

Get your movement working on it...

If all 37 of you work in concert, it might happen in 96 years.

[jpak]

79. Your movement will backfire

yup

[beevul]

85. Oh?

"Your movement will backfire"

Oh?

It survived columbine, in spite of the best attempts of prohibitionists from YOUR movement to use columbine as a blunt instrument to beat us with.

It survived the AWB, in spite of your movements best efforts at trying to downsize OUR movement.


It survived every single attempt you and yours have made in trying to minimize, marginalize, or eliminate it.


You might not have noticed, but every time your movement attempts something either new or regurgitated, it causes the pro-gun movement to grow in both size and power.


By all means though, keep shreiking and stamping your feet. Maybe even have your movement pay some people to help.

It will serve to help achieve pro-gun goals so much the sooner.

[jpak]

101. The extremist gun lobby has over-reached and the electorate will respond

yup

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[derby378]

115. By electing more pro-gun Democrats to office, that's how

How sweet it is...

[jpak]

122. The recent extremist gun laws are being pushed by teabaggin' republicans

in Texas

in Georgia

in Utah

in Montana

in New Hampshire

yup

[X_Digger]

86. Riiiiiiight.

"More people want more gun control.."

[AndyTiedye]

127. Airports Accept Federal Dollars

They still won't let you bring your gun with you past the security.

[beevul]

132. Seen any airplanes at college campuses...

Seen any airplanes at college campuses that can in any way be called a regularity?


Seen any college campuses crashing into the ground from 10,000 feet, or slaming into skyscrapers lately?


College campuses are NOT "security zones" - in any accurate equivalence to the security zone at an airport.

On the other hand, I have never heard of anyone taking over a gun store, or a firing range, or a police station - using box cutters as weapons - either.

[PavePusher]

138. They also at least claim to provide screening of everyone going in.

Just because it's a joke we're trying not to laugh at too hard doesn't give it any credibility or Constitutional validity.

[Callisto32]

69. Please state your criteria for determining whether something is a right or not.

[jpak]

70. If someone's actions *purposely* intimidate others - then it is not a right

Carrying a gun on a college campus is an act of political intimidation.

An armed student confronting a professor about a grade is intimidation.

Armed Young Republicans parading through campus to protest "marxist fuckstick" professors is intimidation.

yup

[derby378]

73. Sez you...

If I carry a concealed handgun on a college campus and am standing next to you, you're not going to be intimidated one bit because you don't even know I'm carrying a handgun - and you never will unless all Hell breaks loose.

Optimism is a virtue.

[jpak]

76. Professors should ask students if they are carrying - if they refuse to answer

They should kick them out of class

yup

[derby378]

81. Exposing CHL students is bad form, indeed

You're at college to get some book-learnin', not to play a game of "Out the Concealed Handgun Carrier."

Live and let live.

Yep

Yep

Yep

[jpak]

108. Then keep guns off campus

yup

[derby378]

113. Wrong answer

See "live and let live" above.

Yep

[PavePusher]

131. ...and then those "professors" would be sued shoe-less...

as they would so richly deserve.

[Glassunion]

74. How is having a CCW "purposely" intimidating others?

CCW means concealed. Concealed means that no one knows you have it. So how would they be intimidated?

[jpak]

78. It creates a climate of fear - any belligerent student may be armed.

Any drunk/stoned student is a potential threat.

Parents don't send their kids to school to live in fear.

College staff and faculty don't want to work in fear of armed students.

yup

[Glassunion]

82. So by your logic... There are 48 US States that create a climate of fear for you?

48 of 50 states allow for concealed carry. How can you stand it?

[PavePusher]

96. And they may be armed anyway.

What's to stop them?

What's your point?

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Callisto32]

140. Political intimidation?

Lulz.

I think that is called "disagreeing."

What if the weapon is concealed? Or if this law passes is just merely being a member of the Young Republicans enough to create a presumption of being armed and intimidating?

[rl6214]

105. "So do the 9th and 10th freedom from gun toters"

That's strange, I don't see any of those words here, do you?

AMENDMENT IX to the Constitution of the United States:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.



AMENDMENT X to the Constitution of the United States:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

NOPE

NOPE

NOPE

[rl6214]

102. Students are the ones that want guns on campus

YUP

YUP

YUP

[Hoyt]

48. Yep, just like it is illegal to have more than a few beers and drive.

Let's be real.

[AtheistCrusader]

51. Do we pre-emptively take away college-age kids drivers licenses?

After all, they can take the bus to school, right?

[jpak]

61. States raised the drinking age - and drunk driving deaths declined

Guns on campus is just plain stupid

yup

[PavePusher]

43. You're not a fan of actually "Looking Things Up", are you? n/t

[Hoyt]

49. Not really obsessed with keeping up with minutia regarding guns in public.

I know that long-term our country will be better off without more and more guns in public.

[X_Digger]

77. Not because of any real facts, thought right?

Don't care for irrational toters trying to brainwash them into believing guns are the answer.

[PavePusher]

97. Then you can cite evidence to support your faith, amIrite? n/t

[Hoyt]

116. As much evidence as you can cite that guns in every waistband will make us better.

[derby378]

118. There you go again...

Just because Hollywood likes to show people tucking guns into waistbands doesn't mean that I have to accept that stereotype. I'll keep my testicles just as they are, thank you very much.

:rofl:

[Hoyt]

126. OK, strapped to your leg, in a shoulder holster, in your back pocket, tucked between . . . . . . .

[PavePusher]

128. Did you set that Strawman(tm) up all by yourself?

Hercules...!

[rl6214]

100. "I'm all for...armed spectators and maybe even players."

and you expect to be taken seriously with a post like this?

What a joke.

[X_Digger]

107. The silly thing is that it wouldn't affect existing restrictions on sports venues. n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

4. Not to worry.

What could possibly go wrong?

[speltwon]

20. Look to the states that allow it.

Why are the anti's so averse to evidence vs. appeals to rhetoric and what if's? Any # of states allow CCW on campus. There haven't been problems in those states.

[TreasonousBastard]

7. Try as I might, I still can't find the problem that...

an armed student body is supposed to solve.

[jpak]

8. You are not the only one

binge drinking and guns?

no good

[AtheistCrusader]

13. People like Cho, at the VT shooting

statisically self-destruct and commit suicide upon encountering armed resistance.

We could hire a shitload of armed enforcement to protect students, OR we could allow students over 21 to carry, legally.

[jpak]

16. Oh I get it - at 18, they can be drafted but they can't have a CW - how authoritarian

All students must have their Holy 2A Rights!!111

:evilgrin:

:rofl:

[AtheistCrusader]

19. That's federal law as it stands.

We can discuss lowering the age if you like.

[jpak]

24. But in NH, state law trumps federal

so the Free Staters tell us

yup

[AtheistCrusader]

25. Take that up with them.

I gives no fucks.

[beevul]

64. Elaborate please.

What in tarnation are you talking about?

[armueller2001]

47. Umm

It can help people not be defenseless against rape, assault, and mass shootings?

[speltwon]

17. Yup. It's all about FEELings, as those quotes show.

And of course no mention of the numerous states that allow concealed handguns on campuses, with no evidence that it causes any problem

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

27. The carry restriction ON campus will be the same as they've been OFF campus.

Only 21 or older.
Must pass background checks.
Fingerprints & photographs.
Permits ussued by police departments.
Guns must remain concealed.
No carrying in bars.
No carrying while intoxicated.

As long as the same restrictions are applied to the adults carrying on campus as they are OFF, I don't see much issue here. Perhaps some special attention to address any storage issues with so many other people around. Other than that... I had a concealed carry permit when I was in college - No big deal.

[oneshooter]

44. In Texas the permits are issued by the Dept. of Public Safety

AKA the State Police, not by individual police departments.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

53. I try not to get to technical...

If has a badge, a gun, and can write me tickets or arrest me... it works at a "police department"

To me that means: cop = sheriff = police = LEO = state trooper = whatever
It's all the same in the grand scheme of things. :)

[PavePusher]

38. "There you have it"

Yes, a bunch of people who really weren't quite ready for college, and proved it by not developing critical thinking skills while there.

Sad, really.

Actually, quite frightening that a collegiate junior can still be that simple-minded. His parents should get a refund...

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lawodevolution]

50. Blood street flow will

wild west. Shoot outs. Date rapes at gun point. Gun shaped vibrators. The voices! They're telling me to ban guns!

(disorganized thinking process, resembling schizophrenia)

[derby378]

67. There we have WHAT, again?

Care to elaborate?

[rl6214]

80. I've got kids in the Texas university system

as well as many of my employees and they are all for the concealed carry on Texas college campuses. Your info is second hand from news stories, mine is first hand from the source. I trust my sources more.


YUP

YUP

YUP

[derby378]

120. +100

:hi: