This is why physicians ask about guns in the home

[jpak]

Couple Recovering After Shooting Accident

http://www.wkrg.com/alabama/article/couple-recovering-after-shooting-accident/1205111/Feb-27-2011_5-30-pm/

<snip>

Allen Jones stated he had removed his Glock .40 handgun from the glove box of his truck and was walking through a screened porch area attached to the main house when he tripped and fell. He reportedly shot himself in his left leg just above the knee. He began yelling for his wife who was inside of the home bathing their young son. Their daughter was asleep in her bedroom. Aleisha ran into the screened area where she tried to secure the gun but her son beat her to the gun. When she reached to get it from the child a round was fired. This round struck Aleisha in the left side of her neck.

A neighbor heard a shot and the yelling and came to assist Aleisha. Allen Jones called 911. Both were transported to USA in Mobile.

Investigators responded to the scene and worked the case with the Deputies on scene.

The scene and stories seem to parallel each other. At last report, the Jones' were in stable condition. Injuries do not appear to be life threatening.

<more>

[WatsonT]

1. And if a doctor had asked him about the gun

this wouldn't have happened?

[Ken Burch]

5. Not the point.

It's about what sometimes can happen when guns ARE in a home(not always, and most gun-owners are more careful than this guy, but it is a reasonable question and no particular threat to the Second Amendment).

[aikoaiko]

9. Apparently it that is the point for jpak since he said this case was why doctors ask.

[WatsonT]

11. No that is the point

the OP stated that this is why doctors should ask if you have a gun in the home. If asking would have no effect then there is no point in it as these things would happen anyway.

So he must assume that asking would somehow have prevented this occurrence. So far I see zero evidence for that.

For instance: if you doctor asks if you own a car would that make you less likely to ever get in to a wreck than if he didn't? Or more likely? Or no change?

[jpak]

14. Maybe if his doctor had asked - he would not be walking around his home/kids with a chambered pistol

that's why

[WatsonT]

15. BS

No evidence for that. You're just offering your own opinion as fact.

[jpak]

19. That is why physicians ask about guns in the home - mine did

and he proceeded to tell me the statistics aboutf US gun deaths

I told them mine were locked up

that was it

Now

If that guy's doctor had talked to him about guns around his kids, maybe he would have been more responsible.

yup

[WatsonT]

22. Just like how doctors tell people to eat healthy and exercise

so we have no obesity.

And that is something that no one disputes the Doctors right to intervene in nor do they disagree with the premise that it's a danger. Anyone not swayed by the constant rhetoric from the anti-gun lobby isn't going to be convinced that guns will jump out of their storage container and murder children merely because a doctor asks.

Also I seriously doubt you own any guns. You have displayed the irrational fear of someone who has never deigned to even pick one up.

[jpak]

26. All a doctor can do is tell you the risks

I own several guns - and I'm an excellent shot - but you cannot handle that

can you

:evilgrin:

:rofl:

[WatsonT]

62. If the goal is to relate statistics why ask if they have a gun?

It doesn't change the risks.

Likewise given that doctors aren't exactly cheap or in abundance should a lecture on every possible danger in the household by their primary responsibility?

Seems Mr. Gutenberg came up with something back in the day that can effectively convey the same message over and over again to large numbers of people.

And I'm not sure why you feel it's important that we think you own guns, do you think it gives you an edge in this conversation? I mean obviously you do not, but that you feel it is important says something about you.

[Common Sense Party]

53. Why do you own guns? n/t

[Union Scribe]

77. So he can lecture them about how dangerous and evil they are.

Captive audience, since they're all locked up.

[Union Scribe]

76. That poor bastard.

Did he have to listen to you minge about guns for the next two hours until he decided on early retirement?

[Atypical Liberal]

42. Why? What difference would the doctor make?

Maybe if his doctor had asked - he would not be walking around his home/kids with a chambered pistol

Why? Do you expect medical experts to be giving out firearm safety advice? Do you ask your local gunsmith for medical advice?

[speltwon]

58. It's about what can happen when guns are handled irresponsibly

You don't transport a handgun from your car to the house unless it's in a holster or otherwise secured - iow the trigger is covered. The only way it could have gone off was if he carried it in the irresponsible manner he did.

I've transported a gun thousands of times from outside to inside, and never once did I carry a handgun IN MY HAND w/o a holster or with the holster on my hip, etc.

[rfranklin]

2. sounds like a fishy story...

but the reason that physicians probably ask is when they see signs of depression or agitation that indicate a mental state not conducive to safe gun use.

[sasha031]

3. what can you say about people like this

:shrug:

[customerserviceguy]

20. They're damned unlucky, and should never buy a lottery ticket? n/t

[Journeyman]

4. I've never had a doctor ask me about guns - is that common?. . .

[aikoaiko]

7. It more common among pediatricians.

[Journeyman]

12. Now that would make sense. . .

[aikoaiko]

6. And what exactly do you think a pediatrician would have done that would have changed this

Send him to an NRA gun safety course so that he knew not to transport a load pistol in a way that it could fired if he tripped?

[WatsonT]

13. According to the show House

doctors have the legal right and the time/expertise to break in to your home at any point. So they need to ask if you have a gun so they can break in and ensure it is properly stowed or better yet, confiscate it.

That is a doctors primary concern.

If they have time leftover after securing all of the nations guns they can set bones and treat cancer and that sort of thing, but really those are all secondary to the gun thing.

[spin]

17. My doctor better not break into my home...

If he does, he better bring an ambulance.

[jpak]

21. Some people think House is a real doctor

yup

:rofl:

[spin]

27. True. I should also add that my doctor is far better educated than the actor who plays House ...

he was originally educated in the Soviet Union.

[Euromutt]

57. I'm not so sure; Hugh Laurie went to Cambridge...

...and medical schooling in the former Soviet Union tended to leave a few things to be desired. Like spending adequate attention to keeping the working environment sterile. Not that this necessarily means your doctor isn't any good, but it's probably unwise to credit the Soviet education system with any skills he has.

[WatsonT]

63. Oddly enough

Hugh Lauries dad is an actual doctor. Hugh commented on that once, how it was funny that he made so much more money pretending to be a doctor than his dad did actually being one.

[spin]

70. Possibly true, but my new doctor from the Soviet Union is far better ...

than the one I had for many years who was from Trinidad and was educated in Canada.

[rl6214]

18. while I love watching house

when did at tv show actually become reality? Especially one as far out as that, doctors breaking into houses.

:shrug:

[WatsonT]

24. I guess it needed this:

:sarcasm:

I mean obviously a doctors job is not to remove guns from your home, right?

[rl6214]

25. AAAHHH

n/t

[rl6214]

8. Stupid does not give a MD the right o invade my privacy

NOPE

NOPE

NOPE

[jpak]

28. I guess you don't let them take your temperature, or make you *cough* or check your prostate

or any of that other "privacy invasion" stuff

:rofl:

[spin]

30. One of the shooters at the range I used to shoot at in the Tampa Bay Area ...

was one of best otorhinolaryngologists (ear, nose, and throat) in the area.

He carried a Taurus Judge in his car in case someone tried to carjack him. He loaded it with .410 shotgun shells. He said he did so because if he missed when he shot at the carjacker, he wouldn't have to worry about where the bullet traveled. He probably would never have had to fire the monster as the carjacker would undoubtedly run as soon as it was pointed at him.

[jpak]

43. I saw one of those once and thought WTF?

I asked the guy if they had ever fired it and he just shook his head.

Real men use the version chambered for 10 ga.

:evilgrin:

[spin]

44. Yup. That would be a REAL man. (n/t)

[AtheistCrusader]

69. Humor aside, the range and penetration characteristics of that weapon

make it pretty safe, or safer than most handguns. You are less likely to shoot into and through one person and into another, or have a bullet go a mile downrange, if you missed.

[Ken_Fish]

10. Sounds like BULLSHIT. 2 rounds kooked off in a few minutes..

having fired a few rounds through glocks I can attest they do not fire without the trigger being pulled. twice apparently.

[WheelWalker]

16. I concur. Conversely,

it is my experience that if the trigger IS pulled, a Glock WILL fire.

[Sonoman]

29. The first round had to have been chambered, as well.

I say this guy oughta leave possession to someone else.

Sonoman

[Hoyt]

23. Another law-abiding gun carrier screws up. And they say it never happens. Ha.

[spin]

31. For some reason, it seems to happen a lot with Glocks ...

it could be because the safety is on the trigger. That's somewhat like putting the brake on top of the accelerator pedal.

[Ken_Fish]

34. I've seen many shooters fall flat on their face and drop guns (rare but happens)

NEVER seen one AD. Ever.

[X_Digger]

32. Who's this 'they' who say that? Care to point to one of 'them'? n/t

[Ken_Fish]

33. And, has nothing to do with me or you..

not sure where you are going but there is nothing but pleas to emotion to stop legal ccw.

Story seems fishy too.

[Union Scribe]

78. ...who said that?

Cite?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

35. How does this have ANTHING to do with their physician knowing the dude owns a gun?

[Hoyt]

36. One should expect a physician to tell old carriers when it's time to leave em at home.

Kind of like telling your mom when it's time for her to consider not driving any more.

[friendly_iconoclast]

39. Aren't you getting on a bit to be owning those sniper rifles you said you had?

Yeah, we know you described them as 'deer rifles'- but they're the same as sniper rifles (save for the finish).

Better destroy them ASAP. After all, if you were too out of it to safely own them chances are you wouldn't know it.

Why take the chance?

[Hoyt]

40. No deer/sniper rifles, glad to say. Shooting at distance ain't self-defense. I do have a blunderbuss

[friendly_iconoclast]

73. Your gun is just as capable of killing and injuring as the gun in the OP.

Are you somehow immune from the possibility of a neglegent discharge?

I rather doubt it.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

41. "Old Carriers"... Just how old do you think Allen Jones is?

They have 2 young kids. How old could they be?

Are "Old People" less likely to have to defend themselves from criminals?
Personally, I think older people need the best tools possible to stand up to criminals due to being at physical disadvantages.

The reasons you propose to support your antirights agenda are ageist and disgusting.
With opinions like this, it's no wonder huffpo went down the drain long before AOL got it's grubby hands on it.

[Hoyt]

46. Heck, even your gun rights historians admit "militia" applies to folks under 45 years old.

And yes, people get to old to have guns. Just like people can be too young to handle one responsibly. You can post whatever, but at some point you just can't carry guns. Some folks might pass before then. But, I don't think you or anyone else wants some cantankerous old guy walking around with a gun and the fashionable 30 shot magazine.

[Ken_Fish]

47. Yes, when someone has power of attorney and is making medical calls

then you may be correct. Until then, just give that one a try. Seriously, piss on older people and legal gun owners too.

That will be popular.

[Hoyt]

54. Better start preparing for the day when you can't carry any more. Does that freak you out?

[Ken_Fish]

60. bed sores the size of dinner plates..

hopefully in 50 years medical care for the elderly will have improved.

as for a firearm, same as loosing the ability to eat, drive, and conduct normal human operations on my own does.

not looking forward to that part of life. but who does?

[Hoyt]

67. Can you image being in a nursing home with armed patients?

[Ken_Fish]

74. Not really my point. I can imagine lots of stuff

most of it, like that statement, are not relevant to the discussions about gun rights.

[PavePusher]

37. Can't see what this has to do with doctors asking about guns.

1. Man tripped and fell, obviously had his booger-hooker on the trigger. Moron #1.

2. How does a son, in the bathtub, beat mom, outside the bathtub, to the gun? Moron #2.

3. This happens so often that the O.P. thinks it's a statistically significant danger to society at large? Moro..... awww hell, what's the point....

[ileus]

38. Yup nothing to do with the reason Dr's ask firearm questions.

Couple of ND's that's about it.

Interesting story however.com this is why you always keep a pistol holstered unless you're shooting it.

[S_B_Jackson]

45. This reminds me of one reason that I never liked Glocks

and much prefer a DA/SA Sig. No one makes that first 8 pound, very long, double-action trigger pull on accident......

[GreenStormCloud]

48. I like SIGs too. P220 in .45. N/T

[S_B_Jackson]

52. What's not to like?

Have several Sigs in various calibers. My everyday carry is a P245; but have a P220 Stainless Elite that's been converted to 10mm.:evilgrin: It's very nice!

[oneshooter]

61. That is my daily carry weapon. n/t

[Ken_Fish]

49. A fine pistol, however no design defeats stupidity or willful negligence

glocks when handled safely are just as good as the next. Like a 1911 pattern gun, stuffing it down you pants with no holster is a recipe for disaster.

[S_B_Jackson]

50. Sad but true.

To make a design that was idiot proof would mean to design a firearm that was useless by non-idiots with an immediate need.

[Hoyt]

55. Right, and no matter how much the gunners claim otherwise, many carriers are dense and negligent.

Guns and foolery are not a good match.

[S_B_Jackson]

56. Thus speaks the voice of experience, I guess. n/t

[Ken_Fish]

59. Many like a tiny fraction of the population. 10 years and millions of ccws

are a neat sample. Shows criminal rates much less than gen pop and lower than police.

Stupid people reproduce, drive cars, consume alcohol, and vote. Unless you plan to strip them of those rights and privileges as well?

"gunners" and "Carriers" you creative use of language would give orwell a nice stiffie. Funny thing is it just jumps out as a ploy, like "abortionist", popular in some circles. Goes to prove just how little political power and real data the anti side has.

[Callisto32]

65. Oy.

[WatsonT]

75. So are many voters

I wouldn't deny them their rights either.

[Kennah]

71. Sounds good in theory, but it fails a reality check.

I've done a fair bit of advanced firearms training, including some force on force stuff.

- Live shooting against inert targets, with an instructor behind me doing the "voice of evil", including room clearing
- Room clearing with two of us, and two instructors, live ammo, inert targets
- Dummy guns against live humans
- Smith DA revolvers modified for Code Eagle--a higher plane of paintball--against live humans

I carry a Glock 23 with a round in the chamber. For the Code Eagle exercises, I cleared my Glock, and left it on the bench in the classroom. I picked up the live Smith revolver, opened the chamber and looked at the Code Eagle "rounds", and holstered it. Actually fit my Kramer holster just fine.

Typical Smith DA revolver probably has about a 12 to 14 pound double pull trigger. My Glock has a standard 5 pound trigger, and I thought, "OMG, this isn't going to work. I'll never be able to adjust to that 'heavy' trigger."

I was quite mistaken. When TSHTF, you'll pull a 30 pound trigger just as easy as a 12, 8, 5, or 2 pound trigger. Relying upon a "heavy trigger" is a risky business.

Rule #1: All guns are always loaded
Rule #2: Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy
Rule #3: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are aligned with the target and you are ready to shoot

Front Site has had 10 gun shot wound incidents since 1999. Four 1911s (they have a mechanical safety), three SIGs (DA/SA or DAO), two Springfield Armory XDs (DAO), and only one Glock.

http://www.frontsight.com/SafetyReports.asp?Action=ShowSingle&ID=5

[krispos42]

51. The man was probably carrying it with finger alongside the slide

Or alongside the trigger guard. When he tripped, his instinct might well have been to grip the gun firmly. After all, we try to grab things when we're falling, right?

He probably tried to fall on his elbow instead of the gun-filled hand, too. Which would likely point the gun somewhere in the general direction of his leg. If he had landed on his hand, he would have landed palm-down, pointing the gun forward and to the left instead of backwards and to the left.

So he falls to his knees with the gun in his hand, and his instinctive grasp pulls the trigger as his elbow slams into the sidewalk.

Okay, reasonable enough. A tragic, though highly unlikely, accident.


How the kid shot the mom? That I can't explain.

[Bonhomme Richard]

64. I'm not real familiar with Glocks but if one is chambered and....

the pistol is fired doesn't it automatically chamber a new round? At least my pistols do. That would explain two rounds going off if the kid mistakenly pulled the trigger.
I'm not a fan of leaving a round in the chamber unless you believe that you are in imminent danger.

[Callisto32]

66. Yes.

That is what semi-automatic means. It is better described by the term "self loading."

Condition of carry is a personal preference, and many less experienced shooters prefer to leave the chamber empty, citing stories like this one. That said, this story is all kinds of fishy. He was carrying the gun, and tripped he said. I think he left out an important little detail..."I was carrying my gun with my finger on the trigger." As far as I know, Glocks are drop safe and no factory test has ever caused one to fire from dropping. I guess there is a chance that this was a true "accidental" discharge from a drop, but that appears highly unlikely from the sparse details.

[Katya Mullethov]

68. The technical term is " Glockcidental Discharge "

Very similar to the Grandmotherly " Bless his heart " in that it's yet another very diplomatic way of saying " dumbass" .

[Kennah]

72. You mean like with revolvers?