Suit challenges discretion in issuing gun permits

[jpak]

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1110ap_us_calif_concealed_weapons.html

SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- The nationwide debate over liberalizing gun laws spilled into a federal courtroom in Sacramento on Thursday as gun-rights groups challenged how much discretion California's law enforcement officials have in issuing concealed weapons permits.

<snip>

The Second Amendment Foundation, Calguns Foundation and three individuals sued Prieto in 2009, alleging his policy violates not only the Second Amendment, but First Amendment free speech rights and Fourteenth Amendment equal protection guarantees.

Sacramento attorney Serena Mercedes Sanders, representing Yolo County and Prieto, disagrees.

"Guns are not the same as speech," she said. "Shooting off one's mouth and shooting guns have very different consequences."

<more>

[old mark]

1. I hope this is settled in favor of gun owners. There should be NO individual discretion involved-

a person either fits the legal requirements or he does not...oh, and by the way, most states refer to it as a license, not a "permit"...we do not need the state's "permission" to exercise our rights, even in California.

mark

[rl6214]

4. +1 for the gun rights groups

YUP

YUP

YUP

[ProgressiveProfessor]

2. The law is not supposed to be capricious in its application

You can not for all intents and purposes get a CCW permit in LA county, in Kern County they flow like water.

Shall issue with a well defined set or go/nogo criteria are called for.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Glassunion]

5. I count 5 that would be "allowed" to have a "permit" and 25 that would not.

[RSillsbee]

11. In LA ? I count 30 people w/ no permit. NT

[Glassunion]

14. I assumed the white guys were "connected" or have some cash.

[RSillsbee]

18. OK. I count 29 people w/ no permit NT

[Glassunion]

19. Lemme guess. Mr. No one should have a gun member of the Brady Campaign

CCW holder Stallone?

[RSillsbee]

20. I was thinking Diane Feinstein NT

[Glassunion]

21. Nah... Stallone...

"Look at what's happening in America's inner-cities. If our hopeless legal system continues going the same liberal direction, there will be anarchy before long. We need one person in an influential position to stand up and tell the truth about gun control lobbies, the death penalty and that our criminal justice system basically stinks."
Sylvester Stallone, interview in Cinefantastique magazine, June 1995

"until America, door to door, takes every handgun, this is what you're gonna have... It really is pathetic... We're livin' in the Dark Ages over there."
Sylvester Stallone, March 28, 1998

"I know we use guns in films," but insisted the time has come "to be a little more accountable and realize that this is an escalating problem that’s eventually going to lead to, I think, urban warfare."
Sylvester Stallone on Access Hollywood, June 8, 1998

"It (2nd Amendment) has to be stopped, and someone really has to go on the line, a certain dauntless political figure, and say, ‘It’s ending, it’s over, all bets are off. It’s not 200 years ago, we don’t need this anymore, and the rest of the world doesn’t have it. Why should we?"
Sylvester Stallone on Access Hollywood, June 8, 1998

Also...
http://www.bradycenter.org/donate/events/la/

What a fucking hypocrite...

[one-eyed fat man]

6. You want to know how it REALLY works?

Send in those same samples, each with their checkbook cash ready to make a donation to the sheriff's reelection campaign funds. (Or be rich and famous)

* In New York City under their discretionary gun permit system similar to California, a police official in charge of permit issuance was fired for having backstage passes and limo ride access to the band "Aerosmith", whose two front-men had gun carry permits he issued. Deputy Inspector Benjamin Petrofsky, the former head of the NYPD License Division, was the target of two probes into the circumstances that enabled Tyler and Perry to receive "carry permits," which allow the rockers to legally possess concealed handguns in the Big Apple.

[spin]

7. Allowing officials to determine who can carry concealed leads to racism ...

the businessman in a nice suit gets a permit, the Hispanic in jeans with a heavy accent doesn't.

If the state has a "shall issue" concealed carry law, both individuals get permits as long as they meet the basic requirements and have a clean record.

In New York City the rich and famous get permits, the average citizen hopes that when he calls 911, the cops come quickly.

Which celebrities have concealed-weapon permits?
Marc Anthony, Howard Stern, Donald Trump, Alexis Stewart among New York stars packing heat
updated 9/27/2010 1:24:42 PM ET

Armed, but not dangerous.

The number of celebs allowed to carry guns is on the rise in NYC, reports the New York Daily News .

So, who can pack heat?

Marc Anthony, shock jock Howard Stern, Robert De Niro, Donald Trump, and his son, Donald Jr., Mets third baseman David Wright and even Martha Stewart's daughter, radio host Alexis Stewart, are all authorized to carry a concealed weapon in NYC, according to records obtained by the NYDN. (Bernie Madoff's son Andrew was denied a gun permit — not even to keep a firearm in his home.)


Marc Anthony, seen with wife Jennifer Lopez in 2009, has a permit to carry a loaded weapon in New York City as well as in Nassau County, where he and Lopez own a $2 million home.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39383672/ns/today-entertainment/

edited for spelling

[spin]

8. Thanks for providing the opportunity to explain how allowing officials to determine who can carry .....

leads to racism and discrimination against honest people and favors certain ethnic groups and those who are politically connected, rich or celebrities.

It's obvious that "shall issue" concealed carry is far more progressive and fair and should be supported by all citizens including Democrats.

The rich and famous and politically connected should not have MORE rights than the average citizen especially in this nation.

[friendly_iconoclast]

9. Unfortunately for us, some do not agree. And they call themselves...

...progressive.

[old mark]

12. ...and that is exactly what happens when the Shall Issue laws are ignored...

Favoritism, cronyism denial of rights of teh poor and minorities-or whoever the sheriff does not like.
I am amazed that supposedly "liberal" people do not comprehend this.

mark

[Atypical Liberal]

10. Just another way for the rich to exercise their connections.

As the examples above demonstrate, all this does is make it so that those with money can buy influence to get permits for themselves, while average and poor people get nothing.

This is a perfect example of anti-progressiveness.

[old mark]

13. Please recall that many of the big anti gun "liberal" politicians in California

worked very hard to deny people these rights...while they themselves have licenses to carry firearms and/or armed bodyguards...Please explain the fairness of that.

mark

[TheWraith]

15. The "little people" can't be trusted with weapons, doncha know.

I'm sure that DiFi and her war profiteer husband are well secured in their multi-million-dollar home. But that's because their lives are so much more valuable than some single mom working nights in a bad neighborhood. :sarcasm:

[old mark]

17. Amen, brother...especially if that mom is a minority ...nt

[Kennah]

16. Here are the numbers

The California AG has a report of the number of CCW licenses issued by county, through 2007.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/statistics.php
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ccwissuances2007.pdf

Pull in the 2010 Census population estimates for California Counties.

http://www.census.gov/popest/eval-estimates/eval-est2010.html

The percent of residents with a CCW license by county vary between 0.0007% and 3.3%

Seems obvious there is a tremendous amount of disparity from one county to the next.

0.0130% - Alameda
1.5984% - Alpine
1.9524% - Amador
0.8047% - Butte
1.2351% - Calaveras
0.6079% - Colusa
0.0173% - Contra Costa
0.5455% - Del Norte
0.6757% - El Dorado
0.2949% - Fresno
0.9296% - Glenn
0.7929% - Humboldt
0.1960% - Imperial
1.2275% - Inyo
0.5054% - Kern
0.2023% - Kings
0.4431% - Lake
0.8003% - Lassen
0.0125% - Los Angeles
0.7210% - Madera
0.0218% - Marin
2.0988% - Mariposa
1.6344% - Mendocino
0.2402% - Merced
2.5326% - Modoc
0.5323% - Mono
0.0255% - Monterey
0.3512% - Napa
0.4527% - Nevada
0.0480% - Orange
0.3026% - Placer
2.0291% - Plumas
0.0337% - Riverside
0.0372% - Sacramento
0.0285% - San Benito
0.1210% - San Bernardino
0.0481% - San Diego
0.0007% - San Francisco
0.0752% - San Joaquin
0.1441% - San Luis Obispo
0.0283% - San Mateo
0.0399% - Santa Barbara
0.0094% - Santa Clara
0.0143% - Santa Cruz
1.2725% - Shasta
3.3217% - Sierra
0.7577% - Siskiyou
0.0359% - Solano
0.0292% - Sonoma
0.1226% - Stanislaus
0.7265% - Sutter
1.1995% - Tehama
2.5085% - Trinity
0.5734% - Tulare
1.4646% - Tuolumne
0.0849% - Ventura
0.1217% - Yolo
0.5421% - Yuba

[kudzu22]

22. "Discretion" is code for discrimination

We need to keep guns away from "them folks" yup


NOPE