Pediatricians Back Away From Evers’ (R-moran Doctor 1st Amendment killing) Gun Bill (FL)

[jpak]

http://www.northescambia.com/?p=51129

Pediatricians distanced themselves Tuesday from a deal struck between gun-rights advocates and the Florida Medical Association, re-energizing a debate about when physicians should ask patients about gun ownership.

The debate revolves around a pair of bills, including a Senate bill sponsored by Greg Evers, that would limit when a doctor can ask patients whether they have a gun at home.

The Florida Medical Association at first balked at a stronger version of the Senate bill, which was eventually watered down to allow physicians to ask about guns when they think the question is relevant to a patient’s health care. That essentially ended the association’s opposition to the bill, allowing it to move.

But pediatricians appeared before the House and Senate Judiciary committees – which both approved their respective versions of the measure Tuesday – to say they were not part of the agreement. They said it was still important for doctors to have the ability to ask about guns in the home, without potential second-guessing about whether the question was relevant.

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[krispos42]

1. I'm still confused as to why a doctor would ask about gun ownership in the first place

I can only think of two situations. "Hey, you've been shot. Do you own a gun at home, and it is stored safely?" and "Hey, your kid is suffering from lead poisoning. Do you have ammunition at home that he/she can be touching or licking?"


:shrug:

[yourout]

2. +1......and I love the toon.

[DrDan]

4. understandable - why would a child's health stand in the way of one's arsenal

[krispos42]

5. You assume facts not in evidence

I don't know why this would come up, except as either a general safety lecture for new parents (guns, knives, chemicals, paints, solvents, medicines, tools) or some kind of symptom that points to, say, playing with ammunition too much.



I noticed that you didn't answer my question either.

[DrDan]

6. you asked a question?

[krispos42]

14. I asked for an explanation

Sorry if that wasn't obvious.

[DrDan]

15. out of concern for the child's safety - seems quite obvious

[krispos42]

16. how?

[DrDan]

21. many are in obvious denial about the dangers to children of guns in the home

hundreds die each year.

These owners obviously are not at all concerned about the safety of these children. Protecting that arsenal is their priority.

Done.

[GreenStormCloud]

23. Hundreds? I call BULLSHIT.

You can check out CDC's WISQARS for yourself: http://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe

In 2007 only 51 children (age 0 - 12) died of accidental gunshot. People above the age of puberty are not consider children but instead are adolescents. Even age 0 - 21 only yields 171 accidental shooting deaths.

[DrDan]

26. call whatever you like"

"More than 500 children die annually from accidental gunshots"

http://www.momlogic.com/2008/08/protect_your_kids_from_guns.php#ixzz1JRKUyEXb



also from that 2008 article


-On July 19, 4-year-old Dylan Jackson shot himself to death after finding a loaded gun at a friend's home during a birthday party.

- A 3-year-old Southeast Washington boy shot himself in the foot and grazed his hand while playing with his father's gun -- which he found lying on the floor.

- A 2-year-old Tampa boy shot himself in the chest with a loaded 9 mm he found in his parent's couch while playing.

- Last February, a 13-year-old boy shot himself with a semiautomatic handgun in the home of his guardian, a Maryland police officer.

- The 10-year-old son of a New York City police officer died after shooting himself in the face with his father's loaded revolver. The boy found the weapon on a shelf in the basement while looking for a ball his mom had hidden.



but I suppose those are just part of the price of our gun obsession. Right?

[rl6214]

27. Well that does it, take guns away from cops

"- Last February, a 13-year-old boy shot himself with a semiautomatic handgun in the home of his guardian, a Maryland police officer.

- The 10-year-old son of a New York City police officer died after shooting himself in the face with his father's loaded revolver. The boy found the weapon on a shelf in the basement while looking for a ball his mom had hidden."

"those are just part of the price of our gun obsession"

Those darn gun obsessed cops

[friendly_iconoclast]

30. You have shown absolutely *no* evidence the WISQARS numbers are inaccurate

Even the commenters at the link you provided pointed out the "more than 500 children..." quote is bullshit.

Can we assume your other posts have a similar level of accuracy?

[DrDan]

35. so - you can rely on the commenters - I shall rely on the author of the article

[friendly_iconoclast]

39. I'll rely on the CDC- you are entitled to your own beliefs, but not your own facts

Which brings up a question:

Why do you credit a writer with no cited sources over the Centers for Disease Control?

[DrDan]

44. does the CDC number make you more comfortable? Is it within the bounds of

an acceptable number deaths?

[GreenStormCloud]

32. I am using official CDC numbers.

BTW - In 2007 more children died of accidental poisoning than from accidental gunshots.

[DrDan]

37. so what is the problem with a pediatrician asking a few questions relative to the

safety of a child.

Can the paranoia of gun owners really run that deep?

[friendly_iconoclast]

40. "Can the paranoia of gun owners really run that deep?"

Asked by the person who rejects statistics, apparently on the say-so of an anonymous website posting....

[DrDan]

43. I guess it does

[GreenStormCloud]

41. Don't run away from the question.

I used CDC numbers and gave a link. Are you saying that the CDC is wrong?

[DrDan]

42. I provided a link that stated otherwise -

[krispos42]

47. Uh-huh

Black and white... that's your universe, isn't it?


I've stated before, I believe in this very thread, that including gun safety and children AS A PART OF a comprehensive "hello new parent, here's some common dangers that new parents often overlook" education course is A-okay with me.


If it's a stand-alone discussion, it's obviously political rather than practical.

[Hoyt]

8. Great comment.

[Hoyt]

9. Posted wrong place, sorry.

[rl6214]

25. My children grew up around my "arsenal"

Not one of them was injured or shot.

Not one of them ended up in prison.

Not one of them did/do drugs

Not one of them joined a gang

Two are college graduates, one still in high school

Because I raised them to know right from wrong. I raised them so they know the proper way to handle firearms. I raised them to be respectfull young men.

I raised them and didn't let the tv or the day care or the nanny or anybody else raise them.

[DrDan]

28. I don't understand the point of your anecdotes

It's great your children are a success - but exactly what does it prove about the safety of guns in the home?

[rl6214]

31. My point is that it is up to the parents to provide a safe

environment for their children which also includes being there for the kids and teaching them what is right and what is wrong so they don't get themselves into a situation they shouldn't be in. My children, when they were young knew not to touch firearms because I taught them. When they got older, I taught them the safe handling of firearms. Too many of our youth do not have this guidance and that is a breakdown of our family units. If they don't have strong parental guidance, they need to have some sort of education in schools to fill in the gaps. It wouldn't take much for the Brady group or the NRA to provide public service announcements or educational programs that could be played in our schools instead of just fighting each other.

[DrDan]

34. pediatricians asking a few questions is not a bad start

[rl6214]

38. Ok if they ask them or you what goes on in your bedroom

sexually?

[DrDan]

45. not exactly sure what that has to do with safety of the children in the home

that is the intent.

[DWC]

46. Totally Agree! n/t

[MicaelS]

12. Because some Doctors are engaging in "social engineering"

And are following the "Public Health model of firearm injury prevention" that states guns only have a negative impact on society, and thus must be treated like a public health hazard.

And the American Academy of Pediatrics still uses the Kellerman study in their statements. http://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/all-around/pages/Gun-Safety-Keeping-Children-Safe.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token

[DrDan]

22. Thank goodness there are still those that are concerned with the safety of our children

There are obviously those that place their priority on gun ownership to the detriment of others in the home.

[Logical]

3. I think the Pro-Gun side (which I am a member of) is wrong on this issue....

It should be no problem for a doctor to remind parents that guns are dangerous. Our Ped did and also talked about how water heater temp and trampolines. We look like fools when we OPPOSE EVERYTHING. Just like they look like fools when they want no guns in the USA at all.

[Hangingon]

11. Do you believe a doctor should refuse a patient

for refusing to answer? I believe that in the earlier discussions, the doctor told the patient to find another doctor. This does not seem right to me.

[Logical]

13. I think it is there right to refuse a patient, just like it is the patients right ....

to refuse a doctor if they don't like them asking.

[diveguy]

29. Ok, but remember that statement when a doctor refuses a black patient,

Or latino. It cant be cherry picked. either a doctor can refuse any patient or none at all

[enough]

7. If a teen or child is suicidal, this seems an approriate point of doctor/parent discussion.

[PavePusher]

19. In that context, yes.

But asking about gun ownership unrelated to any current health issues is a boundary violation.

[lawodevolution]

20. There is a difference between a doctory saying

Because your child is suicidal, get rid of your guns

and

Because your child is suicidal, get a gun safe and lock them up.


The doctor doesn't ever have to ask the patient if they own guns, just assume it and tell them to lock up all weapons in a safe including blades, firearms, chemicals, etc.

The patient will not likely follow the first instruction (and shouldn't), but the doctor may plant the idea of getting a gun safe in the parents mind, an idea the parent may not have thought of yet; however, the idiotic anti-gun position of the doctor would result in him not doing this, because suggesting a gun safe would legitimize the idea of owning guns. This is why anti-gun people do not support gun safety. This puts patients at greater risk because the result is the parent will not get rid of the guns and will fail to have been told how to secure them.

[enough]

36. I see no reason to think that the doctor would have an anti-gun position. He or she might have a

realistic idea of the place of guns in the homes in the neighborhood.

I brought this up because it actually happened to me. I live in a rural neighborhood where almost everyone (including us) has guns in the house. I thought it was completely appropriate for my family doctor to bring up the question of how much access my teen child had to the guns in the house. This had nothing to do with getting rid of the guns. It was -- are the guns in a place where your very distraught child cannot get at them? I was glad the doctor brought this up to me during this horrible time in our family's life. And in fact we did move the guns (not out of the house but to a different situation.) I was so worried about my kid at the time that I wasn't thinking straight and I was very glad to have some serious professional help in thinking about the whole thing.

A very competent teen child is a totally different situation from a small child who can be protected more easily.

[Hoyt]

10. Physicians talk about violence, nutrition, car seats, sex, etc. Why not guns?

[Common Sense Party]

17. "Mr. Jones, my diagnosis is that you're overweight. Do you have any guns at home?"

"Those guns are likely the cause of your obesity."

[lawodevolution]

18. it's a good thing patient privacy is important and the first amendment

does not apply to on duty doctors. They can say all the anti-gun things they want while off duty and as long as they don't disclose private information of patients.

[Permanut]

24. I guess I'm not clear on how

a doctor "asking about guns" is automatically classified as anti-gun. And I'm not anti-gun, by the way.

[GreenStormCloud]

33. Some doctors have refused to accept gun owners as patients.

[Hoyt]

48. I'll bet you can't cite a case where the parents merely refused to answer.

There might be cases where a parent was an asshole with there response -- like "none of your business." Don't blame a doc for dismissing such a patient because of belligerent patients. They sound like TBaggers, someone who lives in a compound with yellow and confederate flags flying over the homestead.

Anyway, if you have a citation where a parent merely said they are not interested, I'd be interested in looking.