Protestors to collide over gun control Thursday in Old Town Pasadena (Calif.)

[jpak]

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_17875110

PASADENA - Proponents of the practice of openly carrying handguns in public will face off this Thursday against anti-gun-violence activists in Old Town Pasadena.

Open-carry supporters, reeling from Assemblyman Anthony Portantino's ban on the practice, which passed the Assembly's public safety committee last week, plan to protest by wearing their sidearms to dinner at Ix Tapa Cantina restaurant on Thursday from 7-9 p.m.

They'll then make their way through Old Town with an open carry "stroll."

The Los Angeles chapter of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and other groups plan their own protest against the gathering.

<more>

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ileus]

2. Why would anyone be against open carry? Safety first I always say...

[YllwFvr]

8. Better in the open where I can see who is armed

Rather than be hiding it and not know

[spin]

3. California should join this century and pass "shall issue" concealed carry ...

and replace the "Guns for me and not for thee" system they currently have.

That might help reduce all this commotion over open carry.

[Logical]

5. +1000

[David West]

6. That maps only 4 months old and it's already outdated.

Wyoming became an "unrestricted carry" state in March and Montana will likely be joining it shortly.

[spin]

9. It's amazing how fast gun rights are advancing. (n/t)

[PavePusher]

4. Could this article be slanted any more?

It's written like they're planning WWE in the streets.

For fucks sake the most obnoxious people out there are the ones doing all the chanting and screaming... The Brady's.

[YllwFvr]

7. I find it funny

That anti organizations will be there to protest this, yet you never see that done here, where ocing is more common. You never see the local anti group do it either, Ceasefire Pa.

[jpak]

10. The Buzz: Open-carry advocates(/gun intimidators) target (Democrat) Portantino

http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/04/21/2358489/the-buzz-open-carry-advocates.html

South Bay Open Carry regularly organizes demonstrations at restaurants, but tonight's Old Pasadena event has a specific target: the lawmaker whose bill would ban the practice of openly carrying unloaded guns in public.

Participants have been encouraged to holster their unloaded firearms to their hips while dining at Old Pasadena's ix Tapa Cantina, just blocks from the office of Assemblyman Anthony Portantino, whose Assembly Bill 144 recently passed the Assembly Public Safety Committee.

South Bay Open Carry has circulated a "Wanted" poster featuring the La Cañada Flintridge Democrat, calling on participants to show up to "support your Second Amendment rights."

Portantino called the event unfortunate. "I think most people on Main Street California want to go out with their families at dinner and to a movie and not have to worry about a group of folks who are armed at the restaurant or on the street next to them," he said.

<more>

[msongs]

11. bullies who never grew up lol nt

[DainBramaged]

12. Bullies with keyboards

[chibajoe]

13. Bullies who get elected to public office

and feel that they can tell people what rights they can and can not exercise.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[one-eyed fat man]

20. Eleanor has some advice for you.

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

Eleanor Roosevelt, 'This Is My Story,' 1937






In the mean time, these may help.....

[rrneck]

14. Thr buzzWORDS.

Learn how to write. Unrec.

[petronius]

15. I have no problem with people who choose OC (and I'd prefer CC be more available in CA), but

I'm not a big fan of the 'Wanted' imagery here...

[PavePusher]

17. I see nothing wrong with the sign.

The only "targeting" going on is political debate, and the wording entirely that of an apparently biased author.

Tempest, meet teacup. Meh....

[spin]

18. Agreed. No cross hairs on the picture . (n/t)

[Logical]

19. If CCW is available in the state, Open Carry people just hurt the pro-gun cause. Stupid. n-t

[oneshooter]

22. In California CCL is may issue, and up to the local Sheriff. n/t

[Logical]

24. May issue is a joke. Some sheriff with a grudge mode. n-t

[YllwFvr]

96. but in a couple its not

and I always prefer oc to cc

[rl6214]

21. And your point is?

You didn't post a point. Anyone can read the news.

[ileus]

23. sad part is they're not really armed, just fancy blocks of steel and plastic.

[PavePusher]

27. See #16. n/t

[DWC]

25. Unloaded Open Carry makes about as much sense

as using condoms that are open at both ends. Both are totally ineffective and both are just inviting trouble.

Semper Fi,

[PavePusher]

26. With loaded magazines on the opposite hip, and a little practice....

you can be ready to engage in 2 seconds or less.

While not entirely optimum, it still beats begging for your life.

[DWC]

102. If concealed carry and loaded, open carry are not legal

but unloaded open carry is legal, then and only then would I unloaded open carry. Letting the Bad Guys know I am armed before I have identified them as a potential threat is giving them far too much information about my defensive readiness.

Just my opinion.

Semper Fi,

[jpak]

28. (Open carry) activists pack heat as form of protest in Pasadena

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/ci_17905900

Gun-rights advocates strolled through Old Pasadena on Thursday night strapped with unloaded guns to protest a firearms law proposed by state Assemblyman Anthony Portantino.

The gun-toting protesters were from South Bay Open Carry, a gun-rights advocacy group. With .357s, Glocks and Colt pistols on their hips, they walked leisurely along Colorado Boulevard looking for a place that doesn't require reservations and doesn't require partons to leave their firearms at the door.

They chose to dine in Pasadena to send a message to Portantino, who has authored a bill to outlaw the open carrying of guns in public places.

"If Portantino's bill passes it will take away the only way you or I can defend ourselves,"

<more>

Using guns for political intimidation

yup

[onehandle]

29. Thugs brandishing their torches and pitchforks. nt

[villager]

30. They were from "South Bay" Open Carry? So they don't even live there

...but decided to invade for a night anyway. Well, like other gangs, I guess.

[PavePusher]

47. Nifty thing about Civil Rights....

They're supposed to be good anywhere in the fucking nation.

[KansDem]

31. They must have visited Pasadena before...

[DrDan]

32. that is EXACTLY the tactic being used - threaten, instill fear, intimidate

[jpak]

33. Part of the GOP/NRA Master Plan - guns everywhere all the time + voter & union suppression etc.

= the New Teabagger Bund

yup

[rl6214]

52. "Part of the GOP/NRA Master Plan"

Good God you are funny!

:rofl:

[Hoyt]

34. As one pro-guns-in-public poster put it here: "intimidation -- that's what guns are for."

Yep, let's legalize armed intimidation.

[villager]

40. every once in awhile, they're accidentally honest about something

n/t

[spin]

42. I've carried a firearm for over fifteen years and I never intimidated anyone.

and I never intimidated anyone.

I carry concealed and no one knows.

[PavePusher]

50. Against criminals, yes.

Not towards non-criminal Citizens.

So, unless you are hiding something.....

[Upton]

37. Intimidation by them..

or irrational emotion based fear on your part? Btw, in this case, those mean evil looking guns weren't even loaded..

[DrDan]

39. fear on my part? I am not the one that cannot leave my house without a gun.

[spin]

57. The first of the ten commandments of concealed carry is ...

Commandment I: If you choose to carry, always carry, as much as is possible.
Hollywood actors get to see the script beforehand, and nothing is fired at them but blanks. You don’t have either luxury. Criminals attack people in times and places where they don’t think the victims will be prepared for them. It’s what they do. The only way to be prepared to ward off such predators is to always be prepared: i.e., to be routinely armed and constantly ready to respond to deadly threats against you and those who count on you for protection. It’s not about convenience, it’s literally about life and death.
http://meanstreetstactical.blogspot.com/2010/03/ten-commandments-of-concealed-carry.html

What you incorrectly call fear is better defined as being prepared. If I had a crystal ball and the ability to use it, I would only carry on those occasions when I had foreseen a problem and I had no way to avoid it.

I can easily leave my concealed weapon behind if I chose, but carrying it has become a habit. I didn't go through all the time and effort as well as expense to get a concealed carry permit to just have it in my wallet. I got the permit to carry a concealed weapon and I do. At first I tried to carry a Colt .45 auto. Packing such a firearm is a pain in the ass and I admit I usually left it behind. Now I carry a S&W Airweight Model 642 revolver. I drop it along with a pocket holster into my pants pocket as I head out the door. I hardly notice that I am carrying.

You chose not to carry and you attempt to project your fear of guns on those who do legally carry. If you want to be afraid of those who carry concealed, limit your fear to criminals who actually do misuse their firearms.

Note: Thanks to Logical for posting the link to 10 Commandments of Concealed Carry http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=405063&mesg_id=405063

[DrDan]

59. rationalize much?

[LibertyFox]

63. Et tu?

He provided a perfectly logical reason. He's not rationalizing nor threatening.

[spin]

66. Depends on the definition ...

ra·tion·al (rsh-nl)
adj.
1. Having or exercising the ability to reason.
2. Of sound mind; sane.
3. Consistent with or based on reason; logical: rational behavior. See Synonyms at logical.
4. Mathematics Capable of being expressed as a quotient of integers.

ra·tion·al·ize (rsh-n-lz)
v. ra·tion·al·ized, ra·tion·al·iz·ing, ra·tion·al·iz·es
v.tr.
1. To make rational.
2. To interpret from a rational standpoint.
3. To devise self-satisfying but incorrect reasons for (one's behavior): "Many shoppers still rationalize luxury purchases as investments" (Janice Castro).
4. Mathematics To remove radicals, such as from a denominator, without changing the value of (an expression) or roots of (an equation).
5. Chiefly British To bring modern, efficient methods to (an industry, for example).
v.intr.
1. To think in a rational or rationalistic way.
2. To devise self-satisfying but incorrect reasons for one's behavior.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rationalizing

83% TO BE VICTIMS OF CRIME VIOLENCE

Eighty-three percent of 12-year-old children in the United States will be victims or intended victims of violent crimes at least once in their lifetimes, the Justice Department reported today. Fifty-two percent will be victims of such crimes more than once.

Using figures compiled by the Government's National Crime Survey from 1975 through 1984, the department has calculated for the first time an individual's chance of becoming a victim of violent crime in his or her lifetime.

Herbert Koppel, an analyst at the Bureau of Justice Statistics, said the study was undertaken because annual statistics can ''provide a false sense of security.'' He added, ''People are worried about the possibility that at some time in their lives they will be robbed or raped or assaulted, or their homes will be burglarized,'' he said. Findings of Study
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/09/us/83-to-be-victims-of-crime-violence.html?src=pm

It is a sobering statistic, but 3 out of 4 women in America will fall victim to violent crime somewhere in their lifetime. This is not a slim chance or a far-fetched possibility, but sadly a real likelihood. How you survive such an event depends almost entirely on how well you prepare.
http://www.leaa.org/crimeavoid.html

Looking at the statistics it is rational to believe that you have a chance of being a victim of a criminal assault. It does make sense to take steps to be prepared for this possibility just as it makes sense to have fire alarms and extinguishers in your home. Not all people have the training, the experience and the mindset to use a firearm for self defense, but some do. For such people, getting a permit to carry does make sense.

Fortunately for other people there are rational measures which they can take to avoid being a victim of crime. Often you will find that those who carry firearms are aware of and use these tactics. A firearm is what you use for self defense when all else has failed and you face an attacker who intends to seriously injure or kill you.

One link that describes these measures is from the The Law Enforcement Alliance of America (LEAA) at: http://www.leaa.org/crimeavoid.html In my opinion you would be making a rational decision if you take the time to read and consider what is said on the link.

[Hoyt]

61. The guy who wrote that has been playing on gunners' fears his entire career. He's doing well.

And probably laughing his ass off all the way to the bank over those that kneel at has waistband holster and drool over his gun and dogma.

[rl6214]

62. when are you going to grow up?

All you can do is make snarky comments and veiled unsults at anyone that is pro gun, pro self defense with a gun and pro RKBAs. You are the laughing stock or the gungeon along with a couple other posters here.

[Hoyt]

70. Actually I did grow up when I realized guns in public should be taboo.

You are the one acting like a juvenile with your rationales for carrying guns into family restaurants, churches, college campuses, etc. 300+ million in this country don't see the need to carry.

[Euromutt]

94. You keep making that "300+ million in this country don't see the need to carry" claim...

How do you come by that number? Because it seems to me you're simply subtracting the estimated number of CCW permit holders from the overall population, and concluding that the remainder agree with you entirely. That's a "black and white" fallacy, since there you are lumping into your camp people who couldn't get a permit even if they wanted to; including individuals under 21 (the generally required age to acquire a permit), residents of "no issue" states (Illinois and Wisconsin), restrictive "may issue" states (such as New York, New Jersey, Maryland and California), and of course persons who are prohibited by law from possessing a firearm, such as the estimated 6.5% of the population who have a felony record.

That's leaving aside the fact that your argument commits an argumentum ad numerum fallacy to begin with. Elton John's "Candle in the Wind 1997" is, according to the RIAA, the best-selling single of all time (in terms of certified sales), but does that make it the best piece of music ever written and recorded?

[spin]

69. Massad Ayoob is considered an expert on the subject ...

by both those who support RKBA and those who oppose it.

Massad Ayoob

Massad F. Ayoob (born July 20, 1948) is an internationally known firearms and self-defense instructor. He has taught police techniques and civilian self-defense to both law enforcement officers and private citizens in numerous venues since 1974. He was the director of the Lethal Force Institute (LFI) in Concord, New Hampshire from 1981 to 2009, and he now directs the Massad Ayoob Group (MAG).<1> Ayoob has appeared as an expert witness in several trials. He has served as a part-time police officer in New Hampshire since 1972 and holds the rank of Captain in the Grantham, New Hampshire police department.<2>

Ayoob has authored several books and more than 1,000 articles on firearms, combat techniques, self-defense, and legal issues, and has served in an editorial capacity for Guns Magazine, American Handgunner, Gun Week, and Combat Handguns. Since 1995, he has written self-defense- and firearms-related articles for Backwoods Home Magazine. He also has a featured segment on the television show Personal Defense TV, which airs on the Sportsman Channel in the United States.

While Ayoob has been in the courtroom as a testifying police officer, expert witness, and police prosecutor, he is not an attorney; he is, however, a former Vice Chairman of the Forensic Evidence Committee of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers (NACDL), and is believed to be the only non-attorney ever to hold this position.<3><4> His published work was cited by the Violence Policy Center in their amicus curiae brief filed with the U.S. Supreme Court in the District of Columbia v. Heller case, and he himself filed a declaration in another amicus brief in this case.<5> His course for attorneys, titled "The Management of the Lethal Force/Deadly Weapons Case", was, according to Jeffrey Weiner (former president of NACDL), "the best course for everything you need to know but are never taught in law school."<4>emphasis added

Ayoob remains an internationally prominent law enforcement officer training instructor. Since 1987, he has served as chairman of the Firearms Committee of the American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers (ASLET). He also serves on the Advisory Board of the International Law Enforcement Educators’ and Trainers’ Association, and is an instructor at the National Law Enforcement Training Center.<5>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massad_Ayoob

The Violence Policy Center (VPC) is a national 501(c)(3) organization working to prohibit gun ownership in America, especially in relation to gun politics. Founded in 1988 and based in Washington, DC, the VPC approaches violence, and firearms violence in particular, as a broad based public health, as opposed to solely a crime, issue.<1>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Policy_Center

[Hoyt]

71. By whom. Amicus briefs are quite common. I bet you guys pay big bucks to "study" killing under him.

Not disputing that. He's developed quite a niche among those who must carry in public.

[spin]

84. Obviously neither I or you will ever file an amicus curiae brief

to the Supreme Court. He must be considered an expert by some very knowledgeable people.

The fact that he makes money by teaching self defense and as a writer favorable to RKBA may bother you, but if most people disagreed with his views he might be working at Walmart.

I personally have never bought any of his books or attended any of his courses but I have found many of his articles in a number of magazines interesting and informative. Since you oppose RKBA, you would not enjoy any of his efforts, but people differ. Many people here on DU disagree with your views. If I were in your position, I would consider their arguments. I have considered yours and honestly I have found them lacking.

I'm not advocating that you run out and buy a gun and get a concealed carry permit. It would be nice if you and those like you would honestly consider the viewpoint of people like me. You know, there is a chance that we are right and you are wrong.

If you do carefully consider our viewpoint and still disagree with it, please present some better arguments to support your position. Short and somewhat insulting posts are not convincing but I'm sure you can research convincing arguments backed up by facts and statistics to support your side of the debate.

If you can't, you may be wrong.

[Hoyt]

60. +100. Cracks me up when folks who can't function in public w/o a gun, try to cast you as fearful.

[LibertyFox]

64. Because you are.

You're afraid of us or else you wouldn't make the arguments you do.

[Hoyt]

72. I think it is time to stop this silly crap of gun proliferation in public.

[YllwFvr]

97. doesnt seem to be causing a problem though does it? nt

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rl6214]

68. Ha ha ha ha ha hhhh

Yeah, you aren't as witty as you think you are. Rather pathetic and juvenile I would say if that's all you've got is juvenile insults.

[PavePusher]

73. And you call yourself a doctor? Wow.... n/t

[spin]

74. Well I carry a concealed weapon and I am not "fearful" ...

why should I be? I have read statistics and researched the subject of crime and as a result I realize that there is a fairly good chance that during my lifetime, I may be a victim. Consequently, I have carefully considered the possibilities and I have developed a plan for handling such incidents that involves not only firearms but "situational awareness" and commonsense. Any fear I had is replaced by a feeling of confidence because of preparation. Of course, I realize that I can do everything right and still end up seriously injured or dead, but life is not always fair. I plan and I prepare and do the best I can. If I fail, so be it. Shit happens. I personally would rather go out fighting rather than begging. Such a death is honorable.

Of course, I don't plan to always fight. For instance, if I am caught off guard by an attacker who merely wants my money, I will give it to him. I can replace my money, my driver's license and my credit cards. I will use those skills I have learned through my life including my ability with a firearm and my martial arts skills only if truly necessary, which means I have good reason to believe I face serious injury or death or someone I love does.

I personally know people who have been crime victims. One who attempted to fight an armed attacker fearing that the mugger might hurt the girl he was with was shot in the leg and almost bled out from an injury to the femoral artery before EMTs arrived. After the incident he decided to get a concealed carry permit and carry a firearm.

I also have read medical statistics and when my doctor recommended a colonoscopy I decided it would be wise to go through this procedure. This year will be the third year in a row that I've had one because they keep discovering Polyps. I don't fear colon cancer as I have taken steps to insure that I am prepared and it will be detected early enough to stop its spread.

The chances of my colon / rectal cancer are 1 in 26, while the odds of my being a victim of serious crime in my lifetime are 1 in 20. source http://www.funny2.com/odds.htm If I have a legitimate concern about colon cancer, I also have a legitimate concern about being attacked. Just as I don't fear colon cancer, I don't fear being attacked as I have prepared and have a plan and the means to deal with the situation. I should add that using firearm is the last step in my plan. A firearm is only to be used in those situations where all else has failed and I face imminent serious injury or death.

Now I believe that the poster who says that people like me can't function in public without a gun has an irrational fear of honest people who legally carry concealed. I believe that he "projects" this fear on us as a self defense mechanism. Statistics prove that those who are licensed to carry concealed are extremely responsible and rarely abuse their license to carry a firearm. In Florida since 1987, 1,953,856 concealed weapons permits have been issued and only 168 have been revoked because of a crime committed using a firearm after the license was issued. source: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html

Ten to thirteen people are KILLED each year in Florida by lightning and thirty are injured. (source: http://pasco.ifas.ufl.edu/fcs/Lightning.shtml Therefore since 1987 230 people have been killed and 690 injured. Not all of the 168 revoked concealed weapons permits in Florida involved a shooting death or injury. Therefore, lightning presents a higher risk in Florida than do people with concealed weapons permits.

Now I have absolutely no problem with anyone who chooses not to own or carry a firearm. We live in a free country and have a right to make such decisions for ourselves. I've personally owned firearms for fifty years and have always handled them responsibly. The fact that I have chosen to carry a firearm is a logical decision considering my experience and background. I don't anticipate any problems when I leave the house but I carry out of habit.

Obviously there are times when I leave the house unarmed. Sometimes I drive to the school to pick up one of my grandchildren who are sick. Since weapons are forbidden on school property, I leave mine behind. It doesn't concern me in the least, so the accusation that I or those like me can't leave the house without a firearm is false and hyperbole. Any time that I have to go somewhere where firearms are forbidden, I leave them behind. I could often leave them in my car, but then they might be stolen and used by a criminal.

So, I serious do believe that those who try to ridicule people who carry as "fearful" are just covering up their own truly irrational and illogical fear of others who have passed the requirements and legally carry. And yes, I feel that they are projecting their own fears.

Projection

About a year ago I received an e-mail from a member of a local Jewish organization. The author, who chose to remain anonymous, insisted that people have no right to carry firearms because he didn't want to be murdered if one of his neighbors had a "bad day". (I don't know that this person is a "he", but I'm assuming so for the sake of simplicity.) I responded by asking him why he thought his neighbors wanted to murder him, and, of course, got no response. The truth is that he's statistically more likely to be murdered by a neighbor who doesn't legally carry a firearm1 and more likely to be shot accidentally by a law enforcement officer.1

How does my correspondent "know" that his neighbors would murder him if they had guns? He doesn't. What he was really saying was that if he had a gun, he might murder his neighbors if he had a bad day, or if they took his parking space, or played their stereos too loud. This is an example of what mental health professionals call projection - unconsciously projecting one's own unacceptable feelings onto other people, so that one doesn't have to own them.3 In some cases, the intolerable feelings are projected not onto a person, but onto an inanimate object, such as a gun,4 so that the projector believes the gun itself will murder him.

Projection is a defense mechanism. Defense mechanisms are unconscious psychological mechanisms that protect us from feelings that we cannot consciously accept.5 They operate without our awareness, so that we don't have to deal consciously with "forbidden" feelings and impulses. Thus, if you asked my e-mail correspondent if he really wanted to murder his neighbors, he would vehemently deny it, and insist that other people want to kill him.
http://www.vcdl.org/new/raging.htm

[petronius]

78. I've never encountered or even heard of a person who "can't function" without a gun - have you?

[Hoyt]

87. Yes. For a solid month -- leave your guns at home.

[petronius]

88. Perhaps you've mixed up your replies? I asked for any evidence of the existence of

people who "can't function" without guns - your response is non-responsive... :shrug:

[Hoyt]

90. Apparently , you can not function without a gun. That would tell most folks something.

[petronius]

91. Really? The last time I left the house wearing a gun it was a cap gun, and

I was ~8 years old heading out to play Cowboys & Indians. (Yeah, we were unreconstructed little bigots, but we did let the Indians win once in a while.)

It's interesting that you don't seem to tire of being called on your nonsensical drivel - that tells most people something about you...

[spin]

92. All that would tell me is that he took his concealed carry license seriously ...

and that his investment was proving to be a good investment. (That assumes he has to have a license to legally carry.)

If he had invested the time, effort and money to get a license and didn't carry a firearm, it would have been a foolish investment.

Undoubtedly he can function without a firearm. He has just made a choice to carry one.

Why are you so concerned about the legal activities others engage in. If there was a serious problem with concealed carry, it would have never passed in so many states and those which had passed the law would have revoked it. Soon this map will be totally green.

[petronius]

95. It would seem that there are myriad reasons for choosing to actively exercise

the right to carry, or not to, and as far as I can tell precisely 0% of them have anything to do with "can't function,", or fear, or a desire to shoot another person. It's odd that our anti-rights colleagues are unable to grasp that...

[oneshooter]

93. Apparently, you can barely function, such fear of the unknown. n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

99. "Being randomly afraid of the people around you goes against the nature of liberalism".

That's an interesting quote, isn't it.

[Euromutt]

103. Not one of TheWraith's best, in my opinion

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=389902&mesg_id=390147

The problem lies in the use of the word "randomly"; I sincerely doubt anyone fears other people at random. One may fear people for bad reasons (e.g. one may be xenophobic, racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-intellectual, etc.), but even then, one's aversion is not directed randomly; it's still aimed at people with a specific characteristic.

I think the opponents of carrying in public would argue, and rightly so, that their fears are not directed randomly: they are directed specifically at persons who carry a lethal weapon in public. Given that we're talking about people who do so legally, and that incidents of such people behaving irresponsibly or criminally with their carried firearms are comparatively (extremely) rare, it's open to debate whether that fear is reasonable, but it is certainly not random. However, by the same token, people who (legally) carry a firearm for self-defense are not randomly afraid of people either.

[YllwFvr]

98. im afraid I cant

I would lose my job

[Euromutt]

100. Hey, it's at least as valid as your characterization

After all, if it's reasonable to characterize individuals who legally carry in public as "fearful" (let alone "paralyzed with fear" and other terms to that effect) because they're concerned about the risk of becoming a victim of a violent crime--an exceedingly rare occurrence, by your assertion--then where does it leave someone like you, who gets quite vehement about the supposed threat to public safety presented by such individuals, even though one's risk of being threatened or harmed by a CCW permit holder is minute, especially in comparison to one's risk of becoming the victim of violent crime overall? By your own argument, you yourself should a fortiori be barricaded in the basement with kevlar blankets tacked to the ceiling and a defibrillator to help you recover from the repeated cardiac arrests you suffer at the mere thought of someone carrying a firearm in public.

Not that I actually believe that, but then, I don't believe you actually believe your "too fearful to leave the house without a gun" either; I think that's just a mendacious schtick you use in an attempt to get a rise out of pro-RKBA posters, so that you can then make snarky remarks about how they have anger issues and shouldn't be owning guns. I might also note that deliberately provoking an emotional reaction, and then ridiculing the individual in question for displaying that very reaction you yourself deliberately provoked is a behavior more reminiscent of a schoolyard bully than of an emotionally mature and reasonable adult.

[rrneck]

101. He's proslytizing to himself. nt

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spin]

75. Why would the fact that one person has a concealed carry permit ...

and carries a firearm legally when he leaves the house mean that he is trying to fill a gap?

Does the same apply to a criminal or the member of a drug gang who carries a firearm when he leaves his house?

[PavePusher]

49. Actually, the Open Carry movement, while likely having many political conservatives...

seems to keep it's activities distinct from any particulat flavor of politics.

And calm, peaceful exercise of a Civil Right does not equate to threats, fear or intimidation.

[DrDan]

51. I am sure there is a rationalized purpose for this pathetic public display

[PavePusher]

54. Not a big fan of freedom and liberty, are you? n/t

[DrDan]

56. not a big fan of intimidation and fear-mongering

[spin]

76. In California is is probably an attempt by gun owners to get shall issue ...

concealed carry. I don't live in California so I may be totally wrong but maybe they hope to replace the outdated "may issue" system that California has today which stops many honest gun owners from having the same rights that others have in many states.

I can carry a LOADED firearm in Florida, but I have to carry concealed although that might change this year. If the law changes, I still will carry concealed as I have no desire to intimidate anyone. If the new law has any advantage for me it will be merely that I don't have to be as concerned about accidentally exposing my firearm.

[one-eyed fat man]

86. Let me get this straight

You are so fearless that you can leave the house everyday without a gun, cloaked in your absolute fearlessness!

You also claim that people carry concealed weapons only for "intimidation and fear-mongering."

So which is it? Are you intimidated by knowing there are people out legally carrying weapons you can't see? Are you worried that criminals will seek softer targets and avoid those who might be armed in favor of those they can be certain are unarmed?

If you were indeed as fearless as you claim, then it should not worry you. If it worries you then no big red "S" on your blue tights.

[Euromutt]

89. As long as it goes via the ballot box, that's a perfectly legitimate tactic

If you don't like what an elected official is doing, you threaten to vote for a different candidate, and thereby instill fear of not being re-elected and/or costing the official's party a majority in the legislature. That's part and parcel of representative democracy.

In this context, it's telling that the NRA prides itself that many politicians used to half-jokingly (but no more than half) remark that "NRA" stood for "Never Re-elected Again." Even its opponents acknowledged that the threat presented by the NRA was not one of violence, but of political power.

[nykym]

35. A question,

Where does one carry their ammo when they are open carrying?

[DrDan]

36. well - we certainly know where the good Pastor Terry Jones carries his when he packs

[ManiacJoe]

38. For California,

you would carry it in a pocket or ammo pouch on the non-gun side.

[rrneck]

41. In the gun

or on the belt.

[spin]

58. In my snubnosed revolver and in a speed loader in my pocket.

[CelticThunder]

44. Poor pathetic little exhibitionists.

[MineralMan]

45. And all of them staunch progressives, too, no doubt.

:sarcasm:

[DonP]

46. 3rd post on the same story this week - gun "news" getting kinda thin, huh?

[PavePusher]

53. Recc'ed, but the photo captions....

indicate a distinct lack of editting. Sigh....

[TheCowsCameHome]

67. Pic: A dwarf, a wine taster, Bugs Bunny and a blind lady walk into a cafe...

....you fill in the rest.

[petronius]

77. It doesn't look like any of those people you're apparently mocking are even involved

in the open-carry event. But don't let that stop your fun... :eyes:

[TheCowsCameHome]

81. How about the one directly behind the gun toter?

What's she/he doing? All I see is an arm.

[petronius]

82. That disappoints you? You can't see enough to find a characteristic to make fun of?

If I had to guess, I'd say that person is ducking out of view of the camera; perhaps they don't want their image to be fodder for dicks on the internet... :shrug:

[TheCowsCameHome]

83. Well, that's one guess....

or it might be something coming unconcealed..........

[spin]

79. They all panic when they see a fellow legally openly carrying a Glock ...

and dial 911 without realizing that three other people are carrying legally concealed firearms and two criminals who intend to rob the cafe are carrying illegal concealed weapons.

How's that?

[TheCowsCameHome]

80. Not too bad.

Your imagination has potential.

I'd give it a "C+"

[spin]

85. I won't quit my day job to become a comedian ...

but then I am retired and don't work.