I Open Carried my AR15 at the local Tea Party today

[David West]

And what do you know? Nothing bad happened. One guy claimed he felt "threatened" by me within about 5 minutes of me showing up and called the cops, but I have a strong suspicion that it had more to do with my sign than it did with my demeanor or the fact that I was carrying a rifle. The cops showed up (there were already a few at the park for the event, which was right across the street from the PD), had a friendly chat for a minute, and left. Later, two other cops approached me to ask what kind of AR15 I had and we ended up spending about 15 minutes BSing about guns, shooting, and the reloading set-up I'm planning on buying with my tax return. Good stuff. All the cops I've ever met around here have been friendly, pro-gun, and pro-open carry.

Here's a local news blurb that mentions it:

http://www.localnewscomesfirst.com/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=431&task=videodirectlink&id=8321

You can see me and one of my friends at 1:12, and I say a few words for the camera at about 1:30. The opposite side of my sign is also visible at about 1:17 if you're curious what it said.

Had some pretty interesting conversations, most of which pertained more to my sign than my rifle. I did manage to get most of it on video, though, and I'm going to cut together the interesting parts and put them up on YouTube in a few days.

[sudopod]

1. Taking weapons to protests is kind of weird isn't it?

What purpose did it serve?

I readily admit that this new trend of taking "peaceful" arms to protests is disturbing to me. That's a new development in US history as far as I can tell, and I don't see how any good can come out of it if it becomes a trend.

Why tempt fate?

[Tunkamerica]

2. fate, as with hindsight, is notoriously anti-gun.

[Tunkamerica]

3. doublepost

[OffWithTheirHeads]

8. I really dom't get the whole anti gun thing

When I was a kid we would carry our 22 rifles down Occidental road near Sebastopol in Ca. and nobody thought anything about it. It was just what kids did. Now everyone is freaked out about guns. Why? because they fire projectiles? Hell, my golf clubs fire projectiles but nobody gets freaked out when I "open carry" my golf clubs.

[sudopod]

11. historically, guns aren't taken to peaceful protests.

that's not normal in any democracy, is it?

[PavePusher]

34. I am armed any time I don't have to go to base.

Been to lots of different events, sometimes concealed carry, sometimes open.

It was never about the gun.

[sudopod]

35. It was never about the gun.

exactly.

[freshwest]

4. It's being encouraged in hopes of it'll be used against others when tempers flare.

[Skittles]

5. why would you want to do that?

fucking ridiculous

[David West]

6. Did you watch the video?

Maybe then it will start to make sense...

[Name removed]

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[safeinOhio]

7. Next time try

doing it wearing an Obama tee shirt. That's make a point.

[David West]

9. Except that it wouldn't be the point I'm trying to make.

Since I don't like Obama.

[safeinOhio]

10. Then who do you support for President?

What are you doing here?

[David West]

55. I'm here to discuss things with people.

And I certainly wouldn't vote for anyone the Republican party would puke up as a serious candidate.

[ThatPoetGuy]

13. Next time try doing it while being Black.

See how quickly one of the Tea Partiers shoots you dead, and how many in authority deem it justifiable.

[right2bfree]

20. glad you would be arrested here. nt

[Name removed]

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[ThatPoetGuy]

77. That was a PRO-health care reform rally, genius.

So no, there's no surprise that the liberals didn't shoot him. Contrary to a dishonest narrative, most liberals -- like most Americans -- support gun control, and probably few if any of the ralliers were carrying. Liberals also don't have a problem with Black people.

So you've posted this picture of a white liberal talking to a black guy with a gun to make a false claim that Tea Partiers aren't racist. How very FOX News of you.

You did get one thing right:

the level of stupidity in the posts here does boggle the mind.

[ThatPoetGuy]

111. Not going to return to this?

Oh come on. Please do.

Please come back and explain why you were so eager to defend the Tea Party.

Please come back and tell us why you posted a picture of a liberal talking calmly to a black man with a gun and claimed the liberal was a Tea Partier.

Please come back and tell us why you chose to omit linkage or sourcing of the photo.

Please come back and tell us how you weren't intentionally trying to mislead people by posting a picture of a pro-health care reform rally and claiming it was a Tea Party rally, and how it was just an oversight that you left off a link that would have allowed people to see the falsehood of your statement for themselves.

Please return to this. Retract your false statements, or defend them; but they're false. That was no Tea Party rally.

[Name removed]

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[RSillsbee]

32. You do know that the tea partier

that carried an AR to the Obama rally in AZ was black right?

[Hoyt]

42. Yep, their ONLY Black.

[PavePusher]

46. Or at least the only one the MSM showed.....

and they tried damned hard to misrepresent him as caucasian....

[Hoyt]

74. Come on Man. How many minorities have you seen at TBag meetings? Get serious.

[oneshooter]

89. How many have you seen at your tb meetings? n/t

[PavePusher]

36. Wow.

Look, there's a lot to castigate the 'baggers about, but I'd like to see a cite to where a significant number of them espoused any racism.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I've never seen it.

[David West]

58. Racism against blacks, no.

I've been to several tea-part rallies and haven't ever seen ANYONE espousing racist sentiments against blacks. Brown people (hispanic and middle eastern) are something of a different story, I'm afraid. Within about 2 minutes of my friend arriving with his "Who Would Jesus Bomb?" sign we had some old-timer walk by and inform us matter-of-fact-like that, "Jesus would bomb the Muslims!"

[PavePusher]

63. And one guy is representative of all of them?

Your statistics is teh phale.

I've heard plenty of baggers discuss immigration reform, I don't recall anyone seriously proposing a complete stop to immigration. Again, not saying it doesn't happen, just that I haven't seen it.

[Name removed]

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[ThatPoetGuy]

76. You think "all the anti-gun folks here" are "bigots"?

You're, unsurprisingly, talking trash, and what you're saying has no basis in reality.

But go on, big guy, keep playing with your guns. Keep creating fear and resentment. Keep oppressing the minorities. And keep calling the good guys "bigots."

[David West]

90. How am I oppressing minorities?

I'd really like to know...

[ThatPoetGuy]

91. Forgive me if I was mistaken.

I thought you were pro-gun.

[David West]

99. I am pro gun.

What does that have to do with oppressing minorities? Thats the most outlandish thing I've heard in a while. I'm all about minorities arming themselves to protect themselves and avoid oppression.

[ThatPoetGuy]

105. Do you support the right of minority communities to establish laws

that the community's elected leaders believe will make a safer environment?

Or do you think the safety of urban populations is secondary to the whims of white suburbanites?

If you think the second amendment, or your own theories about gun safety, matter more than ethnic communities making their own choices about what will make their lives better, then yes, you actively support oppressing minorities. It doesn't matter that you disagree with the community leaders; if you try to force them to ignore their beliefs about guns and follow yours, then you're oppressing them.

[David West]

106. If local communities pass those laws...

Then they are oppressing the people in their communities who don't agree with said law. So no, I don't support that "right." I don't support the "right" of anyone but property owners to regulate consensual activities, inanimate objects, and victim-less "crimes" on private property. Nor do I support the "right" of "elected officials" to abridge the essential liberties (the right to self defense being one of these) of people on land that their tax dollars pay for. I believe that the freedom of the individual matters more than the edicts of "elected officials" or the group-think demands of the masses.

Your treatment of gun-control as a race issue makes absolutely zero sense. Can you even give me an example of the type of community or the kinds of laws you are referring to?

[Name removed]

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[PavePusher]

109. Local communities may not violate Civil Rights.

I would think that was pretty self-evident. Perhaps I was wrong...

"...because the gun owners have chosen to oppress them." Uh, wow. Utter drivel. Unless you can cite to evidence of course...


"I'd be able to explain it to you more clearly, but it would be deleted." If you can't "explain" it without being deleted, try dropping any personnal attacks or outright bigotry. You'll find the result quite liberating.

[David West]

110. Chicago, New York, and Seattle are "ethnic minority communities?"

Really? I had a feeling you'd come back with an answer like that.

"they always get sued by groups who believe urban communities shouldn't have the right to make their own decisions"

Or by groups who believe that "urban communities" don't have the right to tell individuals how to live their lives. How would you feel about the "right of communities to make their own decisions" if they were trying to regulate consensual sexual practices, religious freedoms, free speech, what ethnicities are allowed within their boundaries, or what you put into your own body? I don't see any difference between communities attempting to regulate those things and attempting to regulate my right to self defense.

So how do you feel about places like California? I grew up in Siskiyou county on the sparsely populated Oregon/California border, and let me tell you, people there are NOT happy about their decisions being made for them by the big urban population centers to the south. So much so that there are quite a few people who support a secessionist movement to create a "State of Jefferson" so that Northern California and Southern Oregon no longer have to be ruled by their respective states. Gun rights are a big part of this. Why should Sacramento, the bay area, and So-Cal be able to tell my friends in Northern California that they can't own AR15s or 10+ round magazines? It makes no sense. THEY are the ones being oppressed!

With guys like jpak running around I'm not sure I buy that the mods forbid almost any dissent, but If you're really worried about your post getting deleted, just PM it to me. I really am VERY curious to hear what you mean by all of this. Better yet, start a thread about your theories. As long as you remain civil (and so far, you have, even if your claims are insane) I don't see why your post would get deleted.

[David West]

100. Perhaps racism is the wrong term.

But there is a rampant "us vs. them" mindset that often manifests itself at tea parties (and many, MANY other places and rallies of varying political persuasion). I've ran into quite a few people people at these events who exemplify the uglier sides of such an "us vs. them" mindset. They are by no means the majority, but they aren't a vanishingly small minority, either.

[rl6214]

45. I think there WAS a black t-partier that did that during the election

[Katya Mullethov]

71. They cut off his head & hands .....and BINGO !

Instant Gringo T-Partier !! Ahahaha !

Yeah ....everybody saw that ..... ya putzes !

[YllwFvr]

113. i hope you are joking

its already been done anyway, no shots fired

[Name removed]

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[Vinnie From Indy]

15. Gee, thanks for sharing

[Hoyt]

44. No surprise. 98+% of those who'd walk in public with a friggin rifle slung over shoulder hate Obama.

[David West]

57. I imagine you'd find...

That 98% of those who'd walk in public with a "a friggin rifle" slung over their shoulder also hated Bush.

[Hoyt]

75. Actually, that is not true. Guns, bush, and right wingers go together.

[David West]

85. The kind of people who open carry...

Generally aren't so easily pigeon-holed into the "right-wing" category. Especially anyone who open carries a rifle. I myself don't really fit into the "right-wing" category at all. I've found that a great many open carriers eschew the simple left/right paradigm.

[JohnnyRingo]

12. I love guns, and have several.

I feel if I need to carry one to a rally, It's not worth going.
If I carry a gun it's because I might have to shoot someone, not because the constitution says I can.

I never liked shooting people and avoid it at all cost. Indeed, if I have a CW and someone puts a gun in my face with intent to rob, they can have mine if they just leave.

[jpak]

17. Fuck the Tea Party - right wing militia assholes

yup

[rl6214]

47. Shtick shtick shtick shtick shtick

[YllwFvr]

114. not knowing your age...

id still hazard the guess that you are in the militia

[geckosfeet]

18. How to not make friends and influence people - shove your gun in their face.

I always found something crude and vulgar with open carry. It is kind of like overweight men who wear pants that are way to tight. They ride halfway down their hips and expose much more of their anatomy than most people care to see.

It is much less offensive and less provocative to carry concealed. How you do that with and AR15 is left to your imagination.

Some gun owners are simply not able to communicate and bridge that gap with people who are not accustomed to being around guns. Shoving your gun in someones face is NOT going to make them more accepting or at ease with guns. It will more likely, make them less so.

[P. Galore]

19. That's a really interesting point.

I'm not anti-firearm.

But it seems to me, they show up in the wrong places, and often in the wrong hands.

[PavePusher]

49. Wrong places? Can you name someplace criminal behavior is guaranteed to never happen? n/t

[P. Galore]

83. Very few crimes are worth drawing a firearm. nt

[PavePusher]

84. And some decidedly are.

What is your point?

[RSillsbee]

98. I can categorically state

That there will never be any criminal activity on Venus

[PavePusher]

102. Venusians don't have crime?

Cite to evidence, please....

:toast: :rofl:

[rl6214]

48. How do you conceal carry an AR15?

I've got an AR15 pistol. Seven inch barrel with no stock, it's very easily concealable.

[PavePusher]

69. There was no "shoving <them> in faces". n/t

[Logical]

21. Just showing off! N-t

[YllwFvr]

115. so its ok

for me to do it on duty... but not off duty?

[DrDan]

22. fail to see the connection between the sign and the AR15

It was really done for attention, wasn't it. Otherwise, (1) why the post of the video here, (2) why post a video on youtube, and (3) why the glee in hte guy feeling "trheatened"?

Do you also own a pit bull, by any chance?

[mwb970]

23. Sorry, I just don't understand "gun people".

I really, truly do not see the appeal of obsessing over firearms. But then, I don't know why people watch "2 1/2 Men" or "Jersey Shore" either.

:shrug:

[P. Galore]

25. Neither did my friend, a retired USMC colonel. He wouldn't have one in the house. nt

[Katya Mullethov]

28. I know a retired volunteer fireman

And he thinks they're icky .

[mwb970]

29. It occurs to me that I should clarify a bit.

I said I don't understand gun folks, not that I dislike them or oppose their efforts. I feel the same about football fanatics - I personally don't get it, but more power to you if you do. (I don't understand quantum physics either, but I have nothing against those who do!)

I wouldn't have a gun in my house either, but again, that's just me in my situation and has nothing to do with anyone else really.

[P. Galore]

30. What I'm saying is that professionals with firearms also don't 'get' the obsession some people

have with them.

[YllwFvr]

116. "professionals with firearms"?

explain?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

41. I wish more people had your attitude --

I wish I could rec your post.

:yourock:

[PavePusher]

37. Well you can start with your misapplication of the word "obsess". n/t

[spin]

43. Why do those who dislike firearms always stereotype those who own them as "obsessing" ...

over guns.

I own a small collection of firearms, mainly target quality handguns. They all sit quietly in a safe until I choose which ones I want to take target shooting. After the trip to the range ends, the firearms I used get cleaned and then are returned to the safe.

The only handgun I handle on a regular basis is the snub nosed revolver I legally carry concealed.

Does a golfer obsess over his golf clubs? Does a fisherman obsess over his rods and reels?

I would imagine that there are interests you have in items or hobbies that some people might describe as obsessive.

You have to realize that people have different interests in life. You should also consider the fact that with 300 million firearms in our nation and 40 million gun owners, the number of incidents where firearms are used irresponsibly are extremely low. Many of those incidents involve criminals who use firearms to facilitate crime or to fight over turf if they are gang members.

[rl6214]

52. Come on , you know their term obsess is just meant as

a veiled insult to gun owners.

[spin]

60. True, years ago the insults in the Gungeon by those who oppose firearms ...

were far more blatant.

[ileus]

24. Good on you....I'd never take one of my AR's but maybe the M&P

[RevStPatrick]

26. And you are somehow proud of your behavior?

There's something in all of this that you feel is positive?

[PavePusher]

38. Yep.

He exercised multiple Civil Rights all at the same time and the sky did not fall, no incivility was demonstrated and no-one divided by zero.

Hmmmm.....

[David West]

56. Telling neo-cons to end the wars and to be consistent in their calls for limited government?

Yes, I feel that is very positive.

[TheCowsCameHome]

27. So, carrying that thing with an End the Wars sign....

..does what for you?

It looks like a contradiction to me.

[PavePusher]

50. Being prepared for self-defense, or to defend "the security of a free state"...

is by no means contradictory to wanting to end unjust wars.

[David West]

54. The Tea-Partiers tend to think that it's a contradiction too.

But they're wrong. How is it contradictory to support the freedom to bear arms (which our military has imposed gross violations of against Iraq and Afghanistan during these wars) and oppose aggressive wars, wasted human life, and squandered resources?

Having been raised around a lot of people who think that anyone opposed to war is some kind of limp-wristed, pacifistic coward, I think that carrying a rifle AND an anti-war sign is a pretty potent way to show people that that is NOT the case. It shows people that you can be ready and willing to defend yourself, the people around you, and your country and not blindly support the military or it's interventionist wars.

And it worked. It got people talking. I had a lot of very interesting discussions with people and hopefully caused a lot of virulently pro-war folks to think for a change.

[LibertyFox]

93. +1

Awesome thread and post.

[Hoyt]

33. Actually, something bad did happen. A gun was used for intimidation at a TBag convention.

Agree with ending wars. Don't agree with TBaggers -- a lot of whom are outright bigots and right wing tools.

[PavePusher]

39. Yep, they sure did look intimidated, yessirree.... n/t

[Vinnie From Indy]

40. Typical!

WTF would you know about how this made people feel? The answer is you don't.

[PavePusher]

51. No-one cowered, no-one ran, no-one fainted or cried....

And none of them seemed to feel afraid to continue to exercise their Rights and Freedoms.

They couldn't have felt too much....

[sudopod]

65. Chances are they couldn't read his sign

what with it being covered in letters and stuff. They probably thought he was one of the gang. :3

[PavePusher]

70. More insults....

You're doing great at that whole "winning hearts and minds" gig....

[sudopod]

72. I really doubt any tea partiers are here to be insulted.

I suppose I should be nicer, but DU is our little clubhouse, and let's face it, they have some history with...unconventional signage.

Obviously, the OP is well-intentioned, but Jesus Christ, walking into teabagger rallies with firearms isn't going to make them have a come-to-Jesus moment. It won't erase decades of political indoctrination, and it puts the OP at some substantial risk of trouble with a loony or unclueful law enforcement officers. The only hope of reaching that sort lies with their life-long friends and loved ones, who they cannot dismiss as evil out of hand and who they must see every day.

This is not a good idea. I know there's a strong gun culture out there, liberals are part of it, and they and the OP meant well, but this is just another hammer, and the problems we face are not all nails.

[PavePusher]

82. To be fair, "unconventional signage" is hardly a trait reserved to T.B.'s n/t

[rl6214]

53. Yet most anti-gun posters here will tell your

the only reason a person open carries is to intimidate. How do they know that the people around an open carrier DID feel intimidated?

[Name removed]

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[sudopod]

62. Oh how I weep for the poor AR-15 owners!

Their travails are legend.

This post earns my vote for the most hilarious use of the word "bigoted" in 2011.

The thing everyone is upset about isn't about whether or not people should own guns. It's about the wisdom of taking them to protests, where you are not only guaranteed to find crazy fringe people being manic, but where they have never played a good roll in the history of American public demonstrations. Large groups of people are dumb, even if the individuals that make them up are responsible.

You don't think taking an AR-15 to a protest is kind of odd?

[PavePusher]

64. Odd, uncommon, yes.

crazy, unwise, etc? Not so much.

Slung over someones back, muzzle down? Not a worry.

At low ready, with a magazine in the well? Troubling.

Which presentation was depicted?

The rest is an exercise for the observer.

[sudopod]

66. So what's the point? Why take any gun to any protest?

Unloaded, demilitarized, painted pink, or otherwise?

It must be to send a message. What is it?

"I have disposable income and like to collect firearms even though I'm a liberal, sort of?" Is that going to warm the cockles of their little selfish hearts? I don't see the world view of the religious Rushbo listeners being shaken by this, to be honest.

[PavePusher]

67. Disingenuousness and deliberate obfuscation.

Sorry, I don't play your game.

[sudopod]

68. What did I obfuscate?

I've got no problem with gun ownership, but it is weird to take them to protest rallies. That is not a normal thing that you find in American history. There seems to be not good reason to, but maybe I am not being creative enough with my thinking. Am I wrong? Why shouldn't I see that as a bizarre and possibly dangerous thing in the long term?

Help me out. I'm open minded.

[LibertyFox]

107. I see it as more

dispelling the notion that progressives are necessarily gun grabbing authoritarians. Yeah they exist but those of us who appreciate RKBA can at least find common ground with people on the other side of that issue and find dialog in it.

I think that's at least worth exploring.

[YllwFvr]

117. take a gun to a rally

a rifle? No
a pistol? of course. Always have one on.
Would I open carry??? Perhaps

[ProgressiveProfessor]

78. It is deliberate on his part

He knows and understands the classist and racist roots of modern gun control and supports it anyway.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[DainBramaged]

79. That would be like me carrying a huge dildo in public in case I found I 'needed' to use it

the lack of logic here is stupefying....

[LibertyFox]

80. Do the secret dildo masters

teach you how to use it to defend yourself from attack?

Can I watch?

[DainBramaged]

86. After 60 years of NOT worrying about being attacked OR being attacked

you can use that line elsewhere.

[LibertyFox]

92. I'm glad you haven't had to worry.

I wish we could say the same for everyone.

[DainBramaged]

94. Meh, meh, and meh

paranoia drives the gun business, the huge uptick in guns and ammo sales when Obama took office prove the mindset of the gun culture.

[LibertyFox]

95. It's not paranoia if there's a rational basis

for that belief:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=403668&mesg_id=403716

[DainBramaged]

96. Right, cya

:eyes:

[PavePusher]

101. 1.5 million violent crimes per year.

But anyone concerned in the least about ever being attacked is "paranoid", amIrite?

Meh... indeed.

[PavePusher]

81. For better or worse, the vast majority of us can control our urge to self-fornicate in public....

although I've had some interesting episodes with previous partners....

Criminal actions, I can't control until after they begin. My precognition sucks that way.

Your "logic" is teh phale.

[Glassunion]

88. College...

In college(I will not say where) a huge group of us wanted to get a huge group photo in front of a statue in one of the quads. There was about 100 or so of us. One person screamed out "nude photo". If ever there was a time to have a marital-aid handy... Well that was it. So I would not knock him for carrying one just in the off chance an orgy or something pops up. It is better to have it and never need it, than to need it and not have it.

Good times... Good times...

[Glassunion]

87. Depends on where you are carrying it...

I remember this one time in band camp....

[lawodevolution]

97. I remember the MSNBC report on Chris, the african american man who

took his AR15 to the obama ralley, while they were showing his midsection and gun, never showing his skin color, they were talking about the racist whities with guns.

[donheld]

103. Well aren't you something?

I'll bet you feel really very special don't you. Let me see if I can find a medal to pin on you.

[LAGC]

104. Good job breaking apart the stereotypes!

I'm sure it made for some great conversations down there, got people talking, and the media obviously took note.