So somebody walked into a school in a town near me and didn't shoot

[applegrove]

children. But they had a hunting rifle and they walked into a classroom. Do the NRA types here honestly think the problem is not enough conceal/carry guns in a public school? Should the teacher have had a gun in their desk?

[PavePusher]

1. Missing any kind of context here.

Link? Explaination? Anything?

[petronius]

2. Are you just asking NRA members, or can anyone answer?

:shrug:

[applegrove]

3. Go ahead. How do you stop school shooting?

[petronius]

4. Beats me. I thought your question was about a not-shooting

:shrug:

[oneshooter]

5. Most collages rely on a " No Guns" sign. Don't seem to work too well. n/t

[LibertyFox]

6. How do you stop one in progress?

As popular as I understand cowering is I imagine the best means would be to stop the shooter. This can be done by either shooting them first or stumping them with a well-timed and sinisterly tricky riddle (that is until mass produced non-lethal security bees can be deployed to spread a cloud of anesthetic gas.)

If you're looking into how to stop them from happening at all I'd suggest scouring the alleys and curio shops of the orient for a antique lamp and hope there's a genie inside who can alter behavior.

Or ban all private guns and laugh triumphantly as hordes of criminals and psychopaths are foiled completely and the rest of us finally realize the folly of the second amendment.:hide:

[rrneck]

7. My sarcasto meter just laughed its ass off! nt

[YllwFvr]

9. Respond

When dispatch calls in an active shooter.

[spin]

20. The result is SWAT teams are assembled outside the building ...

and time passes while the shooter continues his killing.

Eventually the teams enter the building but often the shooter has finished his killing spree and sometimes has committed suicide.

An armed individual inside the building could intervene faster and possibly wound or kill the shooter.

[YllwFvr]

23. I agree

much faster.
However, and this may be only Pa case law, we must enter the building. We cannot wait for SWAT. After Columbine the media freaked when the cameras just showed police milling around outside while the shooting went on.

I think it was Columbine anyway. This is what we were told in the academy, you must enter the building

[spin]

24. I can see advantages to this, but I would hate to be in your shoes ...

That's probably why I never seriously considered becoming a cop. I do, however, have a lot of admiration for those who wear the uniform and have many friends in law enforcement.

[Euromutt]

25. To be fair, police tactics have been revamped with each mass shooting

Hanging back and waiting for the SWAT team was the standard response at the time of Columbine, but when that led to the situation you describe, new doctrine was developed that called for the formation of a scratch team of the first three or four patrol officers to arrive on the scene, and have them go in without waiting for further reinforcements. However, when that's been tried, the results have been less than satisfactory, so the latest approach is simply to have the first officer on the scene go in alone. This isn't as risky as it sounds, since--contrary to how the news media make them sound--mass shooters tend not to be accomplished combatants (hence their tendency to commit suicide the moment they're faced with armed resistance) and one police officer stands a decent chance of stopping such a shooter.

Of course, the considerations that lead to the "single cop" approach also apply to an armed private citizen, certainly one who's bothered to get more training than most CCW permits require (such as taking a defensive handgun course at one of the better-known schools like LFI, Gunsite or FAS).

[spin]

14. Let's use Virginia Tech as the example ...

Cho's first attack after entering Norris occurred in an advanced hydrology engineering class taught by Professor G. V. Loganathan in room 206. Cho first shot and killed the professor, then continued shooting, killing nine of the 13 students in the room and injuring two others.<1> Next, Cho went across the hall to room 207, in which instructor Christopher James Bishop was teaching German. Cho killed Bishop and four students; six students were wounded.<1> Cho then moved on to Norris 211 and 204.<20> In both of these classrooms, Cho was initially prevented from entering the classroom by barricades erected by instructors and students. In room 204, Professor Liviu Librescu, a Holocaust survivor, forcibly prevented Cho from entering the room. Librescu was able to hold the door closed until most of his students escaped through the windows, but he died after being shot multiple times through the door. One student in his classroom was killed.<22> Instructor Jocelyne Couture-Nowak and student Henry Lee were killed in room 211 as they attempted to barricade the door.<23>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre

Cho had the advantage of surprise in the first two classrooms and while it is possible that a person with a concealed weapon would have been able to react and shoot Cho, it could be argued that they might have failed. In the classrooms where the students had time to erect barricades, Cho obviously had no advantage and the students made an attempt to be prepared for his attack. Had one of the students or an instructor been armed they could have taken cover behind a desk with their firearm pointed at the door.

If Cho managed to gain entrance by breaking the door down and pushing the barricades aside, the armed individual behind the desk would have had time to be certain that it was the attacker and not a police officer. He would then have been able to shoot Cho, stopping the attack.

Cho had been adjudged as having a severe mental problem. Had his name been entered in the NICS background check system, he would not have been able to legally purchase his firearms at a gun store.

CNN also learned Wednesday that in 2005 Cho was declared mentally ill by a Virginia special justice, who declared he was "an imminent danger" to himself, a court document states.

A temporary detention order from General District Court in the commonwealth of Virginia said Cho "presents an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness."

A box indicating that the subject "Presents an imminent danger to others as a result of mental illness" was not checked.

In another part of the form, Cho was described as "mentally ill and in need of hospitalization, and presents an imminent danger to self or others as a result of mental illness, or is so seriously mentally ill as to be substantially unable to care for self, and is incapable of volunteering or unwilling to volunteer for treatment."
http://articles.cnn.com/2007-04-18/us/vtech.shooting_1_cho-seung-hui-msnbc-com-videos/2?_s=PM:US

[rrneck]

15. Also

if he thought he'd get shot in the first three seconds he might not have tried it.

[spin]

17. If the ducks in a shooting gallery could should back ...

you wouldn't see many people buying tickets to shoot.

[mvccd1000]

8. Wasn't that school a gun-free zone?

How could they possibly get in there?

[DonP]

10. A teacher runs to their car and retrieves their .45 and holds him for the police?

Oh, wait, that was the Appalachian law school, or was that the school in Pearl Mississippi?

I like this "make shit up game".

[spin]

19. The teacher who stopped a school massacre with a .45 from his car occurred at ...

Pearl Mississippi.

Pearl High School shooting

The Pearl High School shooting was a school shooting that occurred on October 1, 1997 at Pearl High School in Pearl, Mississippi, United States. The gunman, 16-year-old Luke Woodham (born February 5, 1981), killed two students and injured seven others at his high school. Before the shooting at Pearl High School began, Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned his mother to death in his home.

***snip***

Woodham drove his mother's car to Pearl High School. Wearing an orange jumpsuit and a trenchcoat,<1> he made no attempt to hide his rifle. When he entered the school, he fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former girlfriend. Pearl High School assistant band director, Jeff Cannon, was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. He went on to wound seven others before leaving, intending to drive off campus and conduct another shooting at the nearby Pearl Junior High School. However, assistant principal Joel Myrick had retrieved a .45 pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham inside his mother's car. Then Myrick demanded "Why did you shoot my kids?" Woodham replied, "Life has wronged me, sir".<2>emphasis added
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

Had the assistant principal been allowed to have his firearm on campus or carried concealed, it is possible that more lives would have been saved.

Appalachian School of Law shooting

The Appalachian School of Law shooting occurred on January 16, 2002, at the Appalachian School of Law, an American Bar Association accredited private law school in Grundy, Virginia, United States. Three people were killed and three others were wounded when a former student, 43-year-old Peter Odighizuwa, opened fire in the school with a handgun.

***snip***

According to Bridges: at the first sound of gunfire, he and fellow student Mikael Gross, unbeknownst to each other, ran to their vehicles to retrieve their personally-owned firearms<6> placed in their glove compartments. Mikael Gross, a police officer with the Grifton Police Department in his home state of North Carolina, retrieved a 9 mm pistol and body armor.<7> Bridges, a county sheriff's deputy from Asheville, North Carolina<8> retrieved his .357 Magnum pistol from beneath the driver's seat of his Chevrolet Tahoe.<9> Bridges and Gross approached Odighizuwa from different angles, with Bridges yelling at Odighizuwa to drop his gun.<10> Odighizuwa then dropped his firearm and was subdued by several other unarmed students, including Ted Besen and Todd Ross.<11>emphasis added

According to Besen: Before Odighizuwa saw Bridges and Gross with their weapons, Odighizuwa set down his gun and raised his arms like he was mocking people.<12> Besen, a former Marine and police officer in Wilmington, North Carolina, engaged in a physical confrontation with Odighizuwa, and knocked him to the ground. Bridges and Gross then arrived with their guns once Odighizuwa was tackled.<5> Additional witnesses at the scene stated they did not see Bridges or Gross with their guns at the time Besen started subduing Odighizuwa.<13> Once Odighizuwa was securely held down, Gross went back to his vehicle and retrieved handcuffs to detain Odighizuwa until police could arrive.

Police reports later noted that two empty eight round magazines designed for Odighizuwa’s handgun were recovered. Most sources (including those quoting Virginia State Police spokesman Mike Stater) state that when Odighizuwa dropped the gun the magazine was empty,<14> although an initial report suggested the gun still held three rounds of ammunition.<15>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

[ileus]

11. Our county has a deputy on site during school hours.

[slackmaster]

12. Story is lacking context

Was the person perhaps a hunting instructor there to teach the kids basic gun safety?

[Remmah2]

13. Varsity rifle team?

Go figure all them evil rifles in the basement of the school.

[chibajoe]

16. So, what you're saying is that guns on campusus are perfectly safe, right?

I think that is a very enlightened attitude that you are taking on the subject.

[spin]

18. So what you are saying is that people who have concealed weapons permits ...

and carry their weapons without problem in public outside of a college campus will suddenly handle their firearms in a foolish or irresponsible manner just because they are on a campus?

[chibajoe]

21. No, that's not what I said at all. Do you have a problem reading english, or

did you reply to the wrong comment?

[spin]

22. The people who would be allowed to bring firearms on campus ...

have concealed weapons permits in most states where the issue is being considered.

People with concealed weapons permits are extremely responsible with their firearms in public and there is no reason to believe that they would suddenly turn irresponsible if allowed to bring their firearms on campus.

Colleges are do not have a force field around the campus that prevents crime and violent crime on campus is rising. Some colleges do allow concealed carry and have encountered no problems with the policy.

Texas Leads Nation with Campus Carry Bill
February 23rd, 2011

***snip***

Critics argue that colleges are generally safe environments and adding guns would make things worse. But the group points to reports of rising crime on college campuses, noting that in addition to high-profile shootings like Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University, there were more than 3,000 sexual assaults, 4,500 robberies and 5000 assaults on college campuses in 2008.

The group also notes that 26 colleges in three states already allow licensed concealed carry on campus, with no resulting problems.emphasis added

“We’re not handing out pistols at the door,” said Daniel Crocker, the Southwest Regional Director with Students for Concealed Carry. “We’re talking about former military, ROTC cadets, professors and other mature adults with permits.”
http://www.concealedcampus.org/

Now if you had better explained what you were trying to say, I might not have posted my response. For example, if you could have said, "Guns pose no significant danger if in responsible hands on college campuses."

That statement would sum up my own views.

However you posted, "So, what you're saying is that guns on campusus, are perfectly safe, right?" You also added a somewhat revealing and I suspect sarcastic comment, "I think that is a very enlightened attitude that you are taking on the subject."


(Note: the correct plural for campus is not campusus, but campuses.)

cam·pus (kmps)
n. pl. cam·pus·es
1. The grounds of a school, college, university, or hospital.
2. A college or university: campuses that are located across the state.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/campuses


With my problem "reading English" it seemed fairly obvious to me that you opposed allowing people who have a concealed weapons permit to carry on campus. To be honest, I still suspect that.

Be sure to insult me when you reply. I love insults.

Edited because of my inability to compose a coherent sentence.

[chibajoe]

26. Well, if you insist: I'll write in short sentences to make it easier for you to understand.

The original post was an anecdotal account of someone bringing a gun to a school.
Nobody was killed when this person brought their gun onto the campus.
I commented on how this story illustrates how having guns on campuses is not a problem.
I commended the OP on posting a story showing how having guns on campuses is not a problem.
I did not say anything about concealed carry license holders.
I did not say anything about their ability to carry their weapons safely on or off campus.
I expressed some confusion when you replied insinuating that I had said both of these things.
I made a couple of guesses as to why you would have done so.
I insulted you by insinuating that you are dumb in the subject of this reply (but only because you requested to be insulted).

Because you continue to post about concealed license holders and their ability to carry weapons safely on campuses even though neither has anything to do with my reply to the original post, I am still convinced that you have a problem understanding english, however I will refrain from further expressing that opinion since you feel that it somehow insults you.

[spin]

27. Much better ...

it helps when you are dealing with people with a lower reading ability like me it is possibly a good idea to take the time to create a slightly longer post so we can figure out where you are coming from.

It amazes me as to how you managed to put so much context into so few words. I will have to try much harder to improve my reading ability.

I interpreted your post as a snarky reply typical of those who oppose gun ownership.

[chibajoe]

28. I know you did, and I apologize for having

a bit of tongue in cheek fun at your expense. ;)

[spin]

29. I enjoyed the posts and I also have the ability to laugh at myself ...

good talking with you.

:toast:

[WatsonT]

30. Hunting rifle . . . conceal/carry . . . these are two different things

unless the man was a giant and could conceal a rifle on his person.

Is your town inundated with armed giants?

[applegrove]

31. The perp had the hunting rifle sawed off and I was asking if NRA types really

felt that civilians in school should be armed so that they could stop something like this.

[petronius]

32. This is the fellow in Canada that you're talking about?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2011/04/20/ottawa-school-lockdown348.html

[WatsonT]

33. Nonsense, it was in Canada

their strict gun laws prevented this from happening.

You see by making it illegal they can prevent people from ever carrying a gun or using one for mischief.

[one-eyed fat man]

35. Sawed off rifles are against the law

They have been in the US since 1934.

But if you think having armed teachers who could provide security in schools might help you are not alone. The Israelis have armed teachers in classrooms. Hamas and Hezbollah don't like it.

[guardian]

34. Is there supposed to be a

cogent thought somewhere in the OP?