Someone just tried to tell me there are 3 TIMES MORE GUNS in Canada than there are here in the USA

[LaydeeBug]

This smells like horseshit. There is just no way. This is partial post-venting, and partial, "say it ain't soooooo". I'm off to google. but where on earth do people get this stupid shit?

[slackmaster]

1. Cool story

:hi:

[Hangingon]

2. Canada has 1/3 our population

Could the "3" have gotten muddled up?

[Spider Jerusalem]

7. Try 1/10, roughly

the population of Canada is around 30 million.

[Hangingon]

14. Thanks, you are correct.

My math isn't so good this morning. I doubt Canada has more firearms than the U.S. whatever the population percentage.

[phleshdef]

3. Here ya go (and yes they are completely full of shit).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

US ranks #1. Canada ranks #13.

[sinkingfeeling]

4. Here it says US has 88.8 guns per 100 people: Canada has 30.8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

[AlabamaLibrul]

15. To be fair I think it's more like 15 teabaggers with 5 guns each, and the other 10-15 sane gun

owners per 100 people.

Or however the math may work out.

[lawodevolution]

95. From surveys about 50% of US households have guns in them

Probably more like 70% with a lot of people who lie on the survey.

Owning more than 5 guns is perfectly healthy. I'd bet we have more like 200 guns per 100 people in the USA. In the last 12 years there have been about 125 million NICS checks and if you add in CHL holders purchases and double gun purchases I'd bet that comes to 150 million guns in 12 years. But what about the 12 years before that? I own guns over 12 years old and two guns 70 years old.

The 270 million gun number is a joke and very very low. If the 270 million is true than more than half the guns in the USA were bought in the last 12 years. I doubt that.

[PVnRT]

5. No

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

Surprisingly, Switzerland and the Scandinavian countries are up there, though I doubt they have the gun violence we do.

EDIT: Fuck, two people posted the same link before I hit the reply button.

[gejohnston]

51. surprised that Switzerland is up there?

I'm not. I was surprised to find a UN study (have to find it again) that put Finland ahead of US (households with firearms). After us was Norway, Canada, Switzerland. I will edit when I find it again.

[Deep13]

6. Um, that's...

[onehandle]

8. No no no. We're definitely more paranoid here in the good ol' U.S.A.

Many more dudes rocking back and forth in their basements.

[Deep13]

10. Well that's it, isn't it.

In Canada and most other frontier countries, a gun is just a necessary tool for some jobs. Here, it is a fetish for our paranoia.

[onehandle]

12. Bingo. nt

[spin]

29. I own firearms for target shooting and I carry one for self defense ...

not out of paranoia but because I feel I have to right to take responsibility for my own self defense if I am attacked in a manner that could lead to my death or cause me serious injury.

But you may argue that the average person has little chance of ever being a victim of a violent crime.

* At the current homicide rate, roughly one in every 240 Americans will be murdered.<23>

* A U.S. Justice Department study based on crime data from 1974-1985 found:

• 42% of Americans will be the victim of a completed violent crime (assault, robbery, rape) in the course of their lives

• 83% of Americans will be the victim of an attempted or completed violent crime

• 52% of Americans will be the victim of an attempted or completed violent crime more than once<24>

* A 1997 survey of more than 18,000 prison inmates found that among those serving time for a violent crime, "30% of State offenders and 35% of Federal offenders carried a firearm when committing the crime."<25>

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

But the crime rate has been falling since that data, even yet:

Consider these odds:

1 of every 39 Americans will be the victim of a violent crime - THIS YEAR

1 of every 6 women will be raped in their life time (80% are unreported)

50% of all juveniles will fall victim to a violent crime between ages 12-17

28% of students age 12-18 will be bullied at school, 24% of those bullied will sustain an injury

35% of adults will be a victim of a violent crime sometime in their life

there is a 100% chance that you will experience a theft in your life time

and an 87% chance that you will experience theft 3+ times

3 of every 4 households are burglarized every 20 years

1 of 4 households have a car stolen every 20 years
http://www.aoss-selfdefense.com/article_yourodds.htm

I also have an NOAA weather radio, fire alarms and fire extinguishers, a carbon monoxide detector and during hurricane season I stock up on food, water and batteries. I don't live in fear or suffer from paranoia because I've made preparations. If you chose not to, that is your decision and doesn't make you better or smarter or less paranoid than I am. It merely means that you chose to be less prepared than me.

[Callisto32]

39. Some of us live in wild places.

Where bears and big cats are real concerns, and wild game is plentiful.

The U.S. is a big place. Saying "here" and referring to the whole thing is kinda silly, in the end.

[Deep13]

61. Swing and a miss.

I know there are wild places in America. Obviously. Just like there are farms and ranches. I didn't say anything about the need for guns. I was speaking only about attitude.

[Starboard Tack]

113. Well said. And in those places guns are needed.

Nothing paranoid about that. Most people in this country live in urban areas. Some tote them around populated areas because they think they're going to be murdered if they don't.

[Logical]

20. See our murder rate? We should be paranoid! n-t

[hack89]

123. I would be concern if it wasn't for the issue

that our murder rate is skewed by drugs and gangs. Murders are not evenly distributed - they are concentrated in areas of high crime, drugs and gangs. The most likely predictor of someone committing murder is a criminal record.

So I have no reason to be paranoid. I live on an island of 70,000 people - there have been exactly two murders in the 12 years that I have lived here. I know the areas in Rhode Island to avoid.

[petronius]

30. What proportion of gun-owners (or pro-rights people) do you think are paranoid dudes

rocking back and forth in the basement? Is it enough to matter, and if so, how?

[gejohnston]

62. Judging from hysterical rants

from antis about shoot outs over parking places etc, makes me wonder who are the real paranoid dudes.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. Maybe they were counting those belonging to the Canadian military

[Deep13]

11. Yeah, but then we have to count the ones in the gigantic USA military too. nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. I am sorry that my early morning sarcasm was not more clear

[lawodevolution]

96. I'm pretty sure the US military has only a few million guns

Military contracts are less than 5 percent of the US gun market, civilians are buying up the rest.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PavePusher]

24. "Americans are gun sexual fetishists"

Instant and total loss of credibility.

Good work.

P.S. Your description of Canadian gun laws is also rather erroneous.

[lawodevolution]

97. he/she/it's just another bigot who hates the members of a culture it does't understand

such as members of the gun culture.

[eqfan592]

25. Honestly....

...you seem to have more of a sexual fetish with guns (and hating them) than any gun owner I've ever met. Seriously, you need help.

[rl6214]

27. Nice job murphy

insulting every gun owner in the US with your "gun sexual fetishists" comment. Do you believe every gun owner is a sexual fetishist or is it dependent upon what they own or how many or what they do with them?

[murphyj87]

32. They deserve to be insulted....

They deserve to be insulted. No advanced nation would have a "right" to bear arms nor would they have insurance company bureaucrats, or bureaucrats of any kind, deciding who gets treatment and what treatment they get, as occurs only in the United States as well, and never happens in Canada, where only physicians make such decisions.

You seem to fail to realize that, for the last 45 years, since my mid teens, the United States is and has been considered by Canadians to be the only real enemy that Canada has, and that the US is considered by Canadians to be a massive threat to Canada, to Canadians and to the Canadian way of life.

[friendly_iconoclast]

33. Wow, Canadians that hate the US are no different than the USAians that hate Canada!

Swap the country names and a few details, and that screed would have fit nicely at Free Republic- but chauvanism and bigotry are

acceptable when aimed southward, eh?


I note that your blast of bile and prejudice would have been criminally actionable if aimed at the Quebecois. It seems some

animals are more equal than others....

[murphyj87]

34. Canadians realized...

Canadians began to realize how different we were from Americans when draft dodgers streamed to Canada from the US, many of whom I went to university with in the mid to late 60's. Realization of how different we are from Americans, and how different our values are from American values, has only grown since.

Regarding your comments, Canadians have the right to free speech as much as, and in some ways more than Americans. Only in the US would such a comment be removed, and would not be in Canada.

Regarding my comment on firearms and Canadian law, anyone who has monitored a Canadian police frequency on a scanner knows that if anyone is observed carrying a firearm , a police unit is dispatched and they are 10-17 ... returning to booking to charge them under the Criminal Code for carrying a gun..... Further, when a police unit is dispatched on any call where anyone so charged is involved, as a complainant or as a victim or as a suspect, the officers are warned "Caution Foxtrot", meaning, that person may again have a firearm.

[rrneck]

36. 10-4 roger dodger over and out

Can the RCMP jump through a rip in the fabric of time?

[murphyj87]

45. What Canadians think about Americans....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ety2FEHQgwM

[rrneck]

48. Yes, you're very clever.

Now run along and play.

[murphyj87]

50. I can play all day....

I've been retired for almost 10 years, at age 55, like most Canadians, who retire at ages between 55 and 60 and can get Canada Pension at age 60, like I did almost 5 years ago (in addition to my full company pension, well only 99.1% of a full pension, since I only worked for the same Canadian multinational company - including the US - for 34 years 8 months, not a full 35 years).

[rrneck]

56. Dig it Ringo...

The fact remains you are where you are because we are who we are. If we weren't as good and kind a people as we are we would own your ass. The population of Canada is about thirty three million. Eighty million private American citizens own guns. Eighty million. We could whip your ass with the neighborhood watch. But we won't. You are safe because we have a Constitution that won't allow it. Is it perfect? No. Are we perfect? No. We as an empire have done some pretty nasty things to other people, and we will no doubt do more. But our evil is nothing compared to the evil of others from whom our power has kept you safe. Nobody in the United States asked to be born here, and we have to deal with an embarrassment of riches that most people in the world envy and none have proven to have any hope of managing better. A lesser people would have done a lot worse.

And since you seem to like multimedia posts, try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMRi-gFeK-M&feature=related

[murphyj87]

64. You can keep, it....

Most people in other nations want nothing that the United States has and think that the only way in which the United States is "exceptional" is in negative ways. The only reason that Canadians have anything to with the United States is that you have a lot to learn from us, while we have nothing to learn from you. Americans with the arrogant, warped value system that you seem to exhibit are the reason why only the rich (or rich wanna be) and selfish want to be in the United States, other than those who want to teach Americans that they only know 10% of what they think they know. Yes, the US is "exceptional"....the only industrialized nation not to guarantee health care to all of it's citizens, the industrialized nation with the lowest social spending by far, the industrialized nation with the most murders per capita, just for starters.....

I must say, the United states is definitely "exceptional"...... this is the best the United States can do????

[rl6214]

66. I noticed you didn't provide a link

Don't do that in canada or did you excel at making charts in school and this is your handiwork?

[murphyj87]

72. Oh you mean this link? Where those graphs came from, and mentioned in another DU thread?

http://defendingthepublicgood.org/

[rrneck]

71. When you learn

how to read you might be able to keep up. There is nothing exceptional about Americans but the continent we are on. By accident. That's what "embarrassment of riches" means. We are making the best of what is actually a difficult situation for humans. Our species was designed to manage scarcity and here we are stuck in the midst of all this abundance. Prove you could do better. Certainly none of the empires in Europe, Russia, China, Japan or Cambodia would respond with our accidental wealth the way we have. You are lucky to live next door to us. You're welcome.

You're just jealous of your neighbor who inherited a fortune and can't understand why he can't manage something you couldn't possibly understand. The grass is always greener Ringo. You're still the weak and you can't prove your strength.

[murphyj87]

73. The embarassment of riches is....

Tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires and the richest corporations........ which we just pulled down Harper's government over.... so he's facing an election two weeks from now.

[rrneck]

75. Of course.

Why don't you invade us and straighten it out? If you're so concerned with economic parity why don't you do something about it? Maybe it's because you can't do shit but sit across the border and pat yourself on the back about how wonderful you are.

You would not have your comfortable retirement if not for us. What kind of retirement do you think you would have if Stalin had been your next door neighbor? Or Hitler? Or Mao? Or Hirohito? The twentieth century was arguably one of the most barbaric in human history, and of all the empires that struggled through it, the United States acquitted itself quite admirably thank you very much.

Enjoy that retirement. You're welcome.

[murphyj87]

78. Oh you mean...

When my father fought from 1939 to 1942 while you Americans sat on your hands? If Canada, Britain, and France sat back and did nothing like you Americans did for the first three years of the war, fighting the Germans while you Americans did nothing, you'd be speaking German right now.

[rrneck]

80. Nope.

After it became obvious the fucking Europeans started a bunch of shit they couldn't finish and we had to come in and clean up the mess. Again. And if we hadn't you'd be speaking German. Or Russian. Or Japanese. Or whatever language the great hulking superpower on your southern border spoke if they hadn't had a constitution that kept them from kicking your ass. You know, the one with the icky Second Amendment. And of course, we made a pile of money off it unfortunately. Yet another embarrassment of riches.

How's that United States protected retirement going?

[murphyj87]

83. Boy....

You even take credit for Canadian retirement pensions when you have nothing of the kind in the US yourself? If you had anything to do about it, you would have it yourself, but no, you have to wait 2 to 7 years longer and get far less for Social Security than we get in Canada Pension, and you have nothing at all like Old Age Security, not Guaranteed Income Suppliment, nor Family Allowance. You take credit for something you know nothing about and which was created by the CCF (predecessor of the NDP) in the 1930's in response to the Great Depression and has absolutely nothing to do with the US. I bet you'd even take credit for Insulin, pacemakers, total body cooling for cardiac surgery, finding the gene for LaFlora disease.. among thousands of Canadian inventions and advancements Americans would take credit for..... and Good "Americans" like Raymond Burr (buried in his hometown of New Westminster BC), Lorne Green (used to read the CBC news), Leslie Neilsen (his brother was an MP and his father was in the RCMP). David Frum (his mother was a CBC interviewer and he began his political activism with the NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY in Ontario), Donald Sutherland (born in Saint John, New Brunswick), Keifer Sutherland (his maternal grandfather was Tommy Douglas, who began single payer health care) thousands of other "Great Americans" of that kind.....

[rrneck]

89. Thats right.

All the luxuries we don't have and that you love to gloat over are the price of empire. Maybe we'll get it straightened out and maybe we won't. Either way it won't be because of any contribution you made. Face it Ringo. If you're exceptional it's because we're exceptional.

[rl6214]

103. Yeah, that's why we took on Japan pretty much by our selves

Then helped finish off Germany.

[gejohnston]

105. In fairness

You forget the hundreds of thousands (150,000 in WW1 alone) of Americans that joined Canadian Forces before US involvement during the world wars. Many earned the Victoria Cross and died on Juno Beach fighting fascism wearing Canadian uniforms.

[murphyj87]

108. That's true,....

That is true, just as a few hundred Canadians joined the US military to go to Viet Nam, while the rest of us Canadian teenagers and young adults protested and sat-in against the Viet Nam War.

[rrneck]

109. What!?

Canadians participated in America's imperial shame and brutalized a third world country for no reason?

[gejohnston]

112. yes

and one or two even got the medal of honor there.

[RSillsbee]

118. So you had from 39 to 42 and couldn't get the job done

we had from 42 to 45 , were fighting a 2 front war and did get the job done.

[rl6214]

102. Well thank God you don't live in this awefull country

more for us terrible Americans.

[lawodevolution]

98. cherry picked stats and cherry picked countries of reference

one thing I noticed in countries like Canada and europe, you really have to inflate your egos with stupid crap in order to feel good about yourselves.

Most things in your chart statistics taken via different methods in the USA than in other nations.

[oneshooter]

63. Do you really think that we give a damn. n/t

[murphyj87]

79. Of course not....

You ARE an American after all...... you probably care only about yourself...

[RSillsbee]

94. I'm begining to think Skoldilocks has an evil twin NT

[rl6214]

57. Actually that comment being removed

"Regarding your comments, Canadians have the right to free speech as much as, and in some ways more than Americans. Only in the US would such a comment be removed, and would not be in Canada."

Actually that comment being removed has nothing to do with freedom of speech but has to do with this being a PRIVATE board and in signing up for it you agree to the terms of the board, one of those being that you don't insult, call names or uses terms derogatory to other board members.

I'm sure you don't object to all the money that flows from the US north do you?

[murphyj87]

65. None of which I did...

I simply stated well known facts (maybe only facts ADMITTED outside of the US).......... Americans have nowhere near the freedom of speech they pretend they have.

[rl6214]

68. "gun sexual fetishists" is against forum rules

maybe you need to read them. Obviously the mods thought it was against the rules.

You could just stay on the canadian DU forum, right?

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[petronius]

84. I can only hope that you are not actually representative of most Canadians

And I suspect most Canadians on the board are hoping that you are actually not one at all... :eyes:

[murphyj87]

86. Not all...

Only about 80%......

[petronius]

87. Wow. I'd say you've just insulted Canada more viciously than anything you said about the US...

[murphyj87]

88. But it's the truth, if you really knew Canadians.....

[petronius]

90. I call BS. Looking back through this thread, it's clear that if most Canadians had

your 'sophistication', the internet would have imploded a long time ago...

[rrneck]

37. What makes you special?

Most of the planet sees us an enemy. And most of them are right. We're an empire. The same empire that defeated certain really ugly empires just over 45 years ago. Given the choices among empires you should thank your lucky stars you have us as a neighbor instead of some of the other lumanaries twentieth century imperialism.

We are a people who have been blessed and cursed with a land of bounty unprecedented in human history. In the unlikely event Canada becomes anything more than a second tier bit player on the world stage we'll see how you fare with such a unique set if circumstances. Until then consider yourself lucky we have a constitution (which includes the second amendment ) that keeps us from kicking your sanctimonious ass up above the article circle.

Lead, follow or get out of the way.

[Callisto32]

43. Wow....

That may be the best rant against "Canada is so much more super than the U.S." stuff I have EVER read.

[murphyj87]

46. We defeated you once and could again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ety2FEHQgwM

[rl6214]

59. What?

:rofl:

[rrneck]

60. I especially like

the way his dramatic proof of Canadian superiority lifted the music from an old Johnny Horton song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsRK3DNoa_Q

:rofl:

[friendly_iconoclast]

81. Certain citizens of other English-speaking countries like to play "Kick the Yanks"

Something going on in Ottawa (or Canberra, or London) that some Cnadians (or Australians, or Britons) object to? You can always

rely on finding someone to a) blame the Americans, or b) claim "well, we're handling it better they did/would" !



Ethnic bigotry and parochialism aside, it's rather amusing to observe....

[murphyj87]

85. You used to lead the world 45 to 50 years ago.....

But since then, the United States has fallen far behind most advanced industrialized nations by almost any measure. You seem not haven't updated your attitude since trhe US has fallen behind Canada, Britain, and all the other industrialized nations....

As of noon today, $1 CDN can buy $1.05 US, and you have had more than 300 failed banks since January 1, 2008, while no Canadian bank has failed since the end of the Great Depression.

Canadian unemployment rate for March was 7.7%, how much was yours?

100% of Canadians can see a physician and have whatever health care they need in Canada, while 38% of Americans cannot even see a physician let alone have treatment, and 45,000 Americans die each year because they have insufficient access to the health care they need.

87.8% of Canadians have a personal or family physician, 16% of Americans have a personal or family physician.

93% of Canadians are satisfied with thier access to health care. 26% of Americans are satisfied with their access to health care.

88% of Canadians are satisfied with the quality of their health care. 48% of Americans are satisfied with the quality of their health care.

...just to scratch the surface......

[rrneck]

91. You're welcome. nt

[rl6214]

104. Again pulling a whole bunch of statistics out of your ass

because you didn't provide a single link for them.

[murphyj87]

110. If they prove you right.....

If made up right wing type fictitious statistics prove you right, you love them, but the valid statistics I present prove you wrong, so since they prove you wrong, they must come from there, in you opinion. Just because my valid statistics counter made up American statistics, it must really irk you.

[rrneck]

93. It's hilarious.

I love the way he tries to claim some supposed Canadian exceptionalism by denying some supposed American exceptionalism. I haven't heard such silly bullshit since junior high school. The last time I looked we were all human.

[friendly_iconoclast]

82. I must admit I misjudged you- You don't act like a Freeper talking about Canada.

You act like a Freeper talking about Mexico, right down to the belligerence and nationalistic hatred.

It's fun blaming the 'other' for your problems, isn't it?

[Remmah2]

120. Canada's Imperialist Aggression

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0R5DTHcmGU

[Callisto32]

41. Have a hard time getting through doors much?

Thoughts like that earned me poor grads my first semester of law school.

"Too conclusory" came the response.


Also funny how none of the many Canadians have ever thought to tell me how much of a threat we are to you and your "way of life" and I always talk politics with people.

Methinks thou dost project too much.

EDIT:

P.S.

Your statement about respective health care systems...well...you killed credibility on two topics at the same time.

[RSillsbee]

42. Canada and RKBA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoCQ8sXduAk&feature=channel_video_title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmm_12C--PY&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2jiv9SCF94&feature=channel_video_title

3 videos by Canadian RKBA activist Katey Montague

[murphyj87]

49. These videos feature a RADICAL CONSERVATIVE, one in front of the VOICE OF CONSERVATIVES IN CANADA

This woman is a radical conservative and the National Post she shows up in front of, is THE VOICE OF CONSERVATIVES in Canada. I thought conservatives weren't allowed to post here? I did quote an economist from the National Post yesterday, but only because the points she made were those of a flaming American liberal, to the left of many Democrats, despite the fact that she was conservative economist and a regular columnist in the National Post. These videos, however, are Conservative, and Conservative ONLY talking points.

[gejohnston]

52. are you saying

Obama would be a Tory? If so, other than your post 1977 gun laws, I could really love the place.

[murphyj87]

53. Are you saying?

Are you saying that President Obama isn't a centrist with strong Republican leanings?

[gejohnston]

54. kind of

Let me put it this way, I thought I was voting for FDR/Tommy Douglas and got Clinton/Harper light. (I think I got that right, if not please correct me. My knowledge of Canadian politics and history is not as good as it should be.)

[murphyj87]

55. Sounds right to me.....

And I have the same feeling about him. Canadians for Obama will be a small group in 2012, compared to 2008.

I think my guy, Jack Layton, will have the balance of power in two weeks and can hold both Harper and Ignatieff hostage for his support and adopting parts of our NDP agenda will be the price for his support.

[gejohnston]

100. from what I understand

the gun issue is more of a rural/urban issue there. I hope the NDP and the Greens are not following Liberal's lead in losing the rural ridings because of the registry. I remember reading about the RCMP investigating Wendy Cukier for fraud, any idea? Does she have stock in the company operating the registry?

[rl6214]

122. So how did those canadian elections work out for you

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has returned to Ottawa a day after Canadians elected his Conservative Party to form its first majority government

[RSillsbee]

92. These videos feature

A teenage girl who's father got royally screwed by the Canadian government. I know nothing of her politicsbut she is spot on when it comes to guns

[murphyj87]

106. Yes, 3% of Canadians agree with her.......

The same 3% of Canadians who see some merit in an American insurance rationed and insurance denied health care system. You seem to put more weight in what the 3% of Canadians say compared to what the 97% of the rest of us say.... I thought the United States believed in majority rule, yet you pay attention to the 3% of Canadians that right wing Americans quote and sanctify, and ignore what the 97% of Canadians, as I, believe about guns, health care, and may other subjects where Canadian opinions differ from these kinds of American opinions. Generally, Canadians are far more progressive than Americans, and I expected more of Democrats than to be grounded in beliefs which are right wing beliefs, such as this, but apparently most Americans are right wing reactionaries, and, I find out, even people who call themselves "Democrats". You've convinced me, there is no hope of talking sense to Americans and bringing the United States back into the 20 th century, let alone drag it way forward into the 21st century. I've tried, but I've had it. Keep your reactionary views. You're not worth saaving. Good Bye.

[rrneck]

107. Pity.

We certainly thought you were worth saving.

[RSillsbee]

117. The United States doesn't believe in majority rule

which is nothing more than mob rule at the ballot box. We believe in the rule of Law.


You're not worth saaving. Good Bye.

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out

TYPO because my non Canadian ass ain't worth saving

[friendly_iconoclast]

121. I doubt you'll be missed. BTW, your posts are discriminatory, per CA law:

(note: emphasis added)

http://www.gov.ns.ca/humanrights/human-rights-act.asp

Discrimination, Harassment, and Sexual Harassment

In Nova Scotia discrimination means unfair treatment because of your ethnic, national or aboriginal origin, age, race, colour, religion, creed, sex (includes pregnancy, possibility of pregnancy and pregnancy-related illness), sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, an irrational fear of contracting an illness or disease, family status, marital status, source of income, political belief, affiliation or activity, as well as the individual’s association with another individual or class of individuals having characteristics referred to in all of the above.

Harassment is a form of discrimination. It includes comments, jokes, name-calling or behaviour or display of pictures that insult or offend you or put you down because of reasons listed above. Examples of sexual harassment include remarks, jokes about your body, physical appearance or clothing, displays of offensive pictures, unnecessary physical contact such as patting or pinching and sexual assault.

[gejohnston]

111. this 19 year old kid?

Please enlighten me, what is the story with her dad? How did she land up on the gun issue?

[RSillsbee]

119. Katey Montague

Video detailing the theft of her family home by the government of Ontario

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bn_HNUy5f4&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJQOQP4FcaQ

Her father is a Canadian RKBA activist who let his Canadian firearms ownership license expire in protest against Canada's gun laws. He went from coast to coast trying to get arrested so he would have standing to sue for repeal of the registration law.

He was arrested in front of his daughter at a gun show here is the account

On September 11, 2004 Bruce Montague was at the Dryden Gun Show purchasing a horse saddle for his then 12-year-old daughter Katey. Six Ontario Provincial Police officers surrounded him and after a brief discussion, dragged him outside. His young daughter cried as she watched her dad be hauled away. When his wife Donna arrived at the show to pick up Katey, she was arrested and charged as well. While Donna was released immediately, Bruce was held in jail for eleven days while the Ontario Provincial Police executed two search warrants on his home and property to locate his firearms.

http://diarmani.com/Articles/Armani/The%20Bruce%20Montague%20Case%20--%20Round%20One.html

Obviously his daught was traumatized and she has gone after the Canadian government like the fury that Hell hath none like.

I don't think the Canadian government had any idea what kind of monster they created

To date her videos on Youtube have received over 950,000 views, and at the current viewing rate she will see her one millionth viewer sometime in September. That's pretty amazing for a young woman, and a pretty powerful showing for the idea that one twelve-year-old girl had after coming face-to-face with the overwhelming power of the State.



http://diarmani.com/Articles/Armani/Katey%20Montague%20--%20Growing%20Up%20Guns.htm

[rl6214]

58. No advanced nation?

How about THE most advanced nation there. Why do all of your people, if they need advanced medical care come to the US? Just how did that work out for Joseph Maraachli? Oh that's right, they had to bring him to the US for treatment, and he's still alive. r successfully moving Joseph to the St. Louis hospital, Father Pavena said, "Now that we have won the battle against the medical bureaucracy in Canada, the real work of saving Baby Joseph can begin."said his father.

The only thing we get up there is the lower priced prescriptions.

"You seem to fail to realize that, for the last 45 years, since my mid teens, the United States is and has been considered by Canadians to be the only real enemy that Canada has, and that the US is considered by Canadians to be a massive threat to Canada, to Canadians and to the Canadian way of life."

How much aid does canada get from the US every year? Maybe we should cut that off. Seeing as how you hate us so much. At least we know there is no threat to us from canada, except maybe if we were invaded by a hockey team or maybe by some of it's women.

[murphyj87]

69. Exactly...

You really don't think that the United States is an advanced nation do you? Canadians get all the advanced care they need in Canada. The only Canadians who go to the US for treatment are those who think they're sicker THAN THEIR OWN PHYSICIANS say they are. For every Canadian who goes to the US for treatment, there are 1000 Americans who come to Canada (2 million a year) for the treatment they are denied by insurance company bureaucrats in the US. There are thousands of Americans who have feel they are living in exile in Canada, because they want to go back to the US, but can't because they would die from being denied health care in the US that they are guaranteed in Canada. The "medical bureaucracy" you think you know about in Canada is the professional opinion of their own family physician, and nothing else. If your physician says you need a test, treatment, or surgery, you get it, as opposed to the US, where an American insurance company bureaucrat decides who gets treated and what treatment they get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TWuO5dBYjo

This is by Diane Francis, an American (from Chicago) who moved to Canada, and is an economist who writes for the National Post (which describes itself as the voice of Canadian Conservatives) and for the Financial Post, so even Canadian Conservatives feel this way.


The real story. Here are the facts as to why Canada's medical system, far from perfect, is dramatically better than America's:

1. It is cheaper even though it takes care of the entire population, for 10.1% of GDP compared with 17% in the U.S.

2. Canada's health care system, which fully looks after 34 million people, costs roughly what the private-sector health insurance companies make in profits in the United States looking after less than half the population for excessive premiums.

3. Canada's health care system is cheaper still if the litigation costs of fighting over medical bills is eliminated as it is when the government is the sole-insurer. Estimates are that court costs and judgments add another 2 to 3% of GDP to the total medical tab in the United States.

4. Canada's health care system enhances economic productivity. Workers diagnosed with illnesses can still change employers and be employable because they are not rejected by employers with health benefits due to pre-conditions, and, in fact, are intentionally treated for preconditions.

5. Infant mortality and maternal mortality are much lower in Canada and Europe than in the U.S.

6. Outcomes with major illnesses, such as cancer and heart disease, are better in Canada than they are in the United States.

7. Longevity is better in Canada and Europe than in the U.S.

8. No emergency is neglected in Canada, despite the lies that Americans tell and think is the case.

9. Some elective procedures may take longer if compared to the blue-ribbon U.S. health care of the advantaged and rich, but that's not comparing apples with apples. More appropriately, the care of the overall population should be what is compared, and there are tens of millions of Americans who are uninsured or uninsurable, and thus, those Americans are denied the health care they need which they would get and be guaranteed in Canada.

10. No one in Canada goes broke because of medical bills whereas AARP estimates half of personal bankruptcies are due to unpaid, high medical bills.

11. Canadians are able to choose any physician and to seek multiple opinions of other physicians, while most Americans with insurance run health care are limited to a small network of physicians.

12. Canadian doctors and nurses are better trained than American counterparts and U.S. physicians must study for at least a year in order to qualify to practice in Canada.

13. Drugs made and invented in the United States are cheaper in Canada, Europe and Japan because our communal health care means volume discounts and savings are passed along to society. Americans are overpaying massively.

14. Americans are being cheated by a patchwork quilt system, where the highest risk people - veterans, the indigent and the elderly - are insured by governments but the "gravy" i.e. young, healthy people, are the only ones handed over to private insurance companies.

[rl6214]

70. You didn't answer my question about the child

and all you listed was a bunch of statements, where did they come from?

[murphyj87]

76. If you read...it said....

Diane Francis, an American born economist who moved to Canada 35 years ago and writes for the National Post, the voice of Conservatives in Canada, although her analysis makes her sound like flaming liberal when compared to you Americans. Those statements were the analysis of a conservative economist. Even conservatives agree that Canadian health care beats American health care hands down.

I did answer your question about the child..... the only "bureaucracy" they had was the professional opinion of their own physician, which is the only reason a person can't get a test, treatment, or surgery in Canada, is if their own physician says "NO". The only people who make medical decisions and decide who gets treatment and what treatment they get in Canada are our own personal physicians, or physican specialists we are sent to. In Canada, if your physician says you need a test, treatment or surgery, you get it....PERIOD. The government does not have any say in it, only our physicians do.

The way to tell if what you hear is an urban legend, if it says that the government in Canada denied them treatment or whatever, that is an absolute guarantee that it's an urban legend, as opposed to the US, where there is absolute proof by Harvard University that 45,000 Americans die each and every year from being denied health care because American health care is denied or rationed by insurance company bureaucrats for profit, and American insurance company bureaucrats, not physicians, decide who gets treated and what treatment they get.

[PavePusher]

101. You need to dig your bunker deeper....

and wrap another layer of tinfoil around your head, you're getting some leakage.

[Katya Mullethov]

116. There is a rising tide of resentment

That cant be so readily dismissed .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAYMJnO9LBQ

[rrneck]

28. You make a good case for RKBA.

Canada has much lower population density. Much less need for handguns. And apparently fucking, which explain your misconceptions about sex

[karnac]

13. switzerland is supposed to be armed to the teeth

to dissuade much larger countries much larger surrounding countries from invading.

looks like they have one gun per adult male. mandatory. I don't see many gun totin' mamas here so there must be a heckofa lot of hoarding by some.

If they can get by on half of what we have now, a third is more reasonable for us.

[benEzra]

40. Be careful not to conflate

overall private Swiss gun ownership with the government-issued assault rifles in Swiss households; two separate things.

Swiss adults with clean records can, and do, buy the same civilian guns Americans can, and shoot them avidly. The Swiss military also issues actual military assault rifles and ammunition to those in its service, to be kept at home ready to go on a moment's notice. I see a lot of conflation of those two concepts in the media; the government owned full autos are controlled more tightly than the civilian guns.

[karnac]

67. point taken and acknowledged.

So what you are saying is.
the actual amount of firearms per adult is actually MUCH higher if you count the actual military arm each designated defender-of-the-land is assigned.
probably VERY close if not higher than the rate in the USA.

yet little firearms crime there.

Looks like and American Character problem and not a firearm problem at all..

[friendly_iconoclast]

77. They have a gun culture, and apparently not much of a murder problem.

We have a gun culture and a murder problem. Places like Russia and Nigeria don't have gun cultures per se, but do have

murder problems.

[lawodevolution]

99. If you add a little logic to that, one can conclude that gun culture does not have anything to do

with murder rates.

Canada, Switzerland, finland, etc have gun cultures and low crime
nigeria, jamaica, haiti have no gun culture and very high murder rates

USA has mid to low murder rate compared to the world and we have both gun culture (that does not add to crime) and thug culture. So the only way the USA will reduce the murder rate to be like canada's is to try to convert the thug culture over to being more like the gun culture or in other words stop teaching your children that guns are evil because when they go and buy their first gun, the associate it with doing bad things, while children of members of the gun culture, when they buy their first gun, the only thing they think of doing is going to the range with it.

[benEzra]

115. Pretty much. Czech Republic also has gun laws very similar to USA, and little crime.

I'm not sure it's so much a "character problem" with the USA, as much as it is a reflection of the fact that the USA has made some phenomenally bad choices regarding social policy, prohibition, education, mental health, and urban development that have led to vast income disparities in inner cities, rewarded criminal enterprise and gang turf wars over economic and industrial development, etc. We have the highest income disparity of any industrialized nation, and our society financially rewards criminal behavior like few other First World countries do.

If you look at U.S. crime stats by region, income, and demographic, you'll find that most of the U.S. murder rate stems from blighted urban cores where the only decent jobs are in the illegal drug distribution system. You'll also find that the areas and demographics with the highest rate of lawful gun ownership contribute relatively little to the murder rate compared to the urban cores where lawful gun ownership is less common (and I'm not arguing causality here, just noting lack of correlation between lawful gun ownership and murder rates). Case in point, Vermont and New Hampshire are very free with regard to gun ownership and yet have overall murder rates comparable to that of Canada and mainland Europe, whereas Chicago/Charlotte/D.C./L.A. have murder rates that are much, much higher, due to the economic and social dysfunction present in those cities (IMO).

[SidDithers]

17. Tell 'em to prove it...

tell 'em to back up their claim with evidence.

Don't put any effort into proving them wrong. Make them prove themselves right.

Sid

[RC]

23. The problem with that is

that they will take your lack of presenting factual evidence to the contrary as evidence that they are correct.
Ya gotta beat'em over the head with facts to even make then back off their BS. Changing their minds is all but out of the question.

[Callisto32]

44. I belive...

it is "brusselS sprouts."

[tsuki]

18. Someone has been snorting. nt

[ChoppinBroccoli]

19. It's True That Canada Has More Guns Per Capita Than We Do In The US............

.............but their murder rate and rate of gun crimes is a FRACTION of what is here in the U.S. as well. That should tell you something. This is what happens when you have a populace who thinks, "We're all in this together," as opposed to one that thinks, "I gots ta get mine and screw anyone who tries to stop me." It's a fundamental difference in the culture.

[Logical]

21. You hit the nail on the head. Selfish country! n-t

[sinkingfeeling]

26. Do you have a source for that misinformation?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/28/us-world-firearms-idUSL2834893820070828

"U.S. most armed country with 90 guns per 100 people.

On a per-capita basis, Yemen had the second most heavily armed citizenry behind the United States, with 61 guns per 100 people, followed by Finland with 56, Switzerland with 46, Iraq with 39 and Serbia with 38.

France, Canada, Sweden, Austria and Germany were next, each with about 30 guns per 100 people, while many poorer countries often associated with violence ranked much lower. Nigeria, for instance, had just one gun per 100 people."

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

31. Wrong... US is #1 in per-capita civilian firearm ownership. Canada is #13.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

[ileus]

35. If it's close to true we need to buy more firearms.

[RSillsbee]

38. I think they meant per capita NT

[gejohnston]

47. The only place I have seen or heard of it

Was from Michael Moore (he said it was on a per capita basis), and I remember Thom Hartmann mentioning it too. How anyone comes to the number, who knows. According to the RCMP there are something like 16 million registered guns. However, the long gun registry does not reflect reality because of a civil disobedience campaign since 1995. Most the provinces refuse to enforce it. I can not find evidence of that level of resistance about handguns (licensed since the 1930s) or machine guns (registered since 1950s, mostly banned in 1977.)
Of course the number of guns per capita is different than number of households with firearms (In Switzerland's case, does the number include government issue machine guns and pistols or just privately owned guns? I don't know.) With any social science there is always a margin of error.
Like here, it seems that the issue has been costing the Liberal Party (not so much Greens, NDP etc) rural votes.
Out of curiosity, why is it an important issue to you?

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/index-eng.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Canada
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Firearms_Registry
http://nfa.ca/
http://www.lufa.ca/



http://www.lilith-ezine.com/articles/canada/2007/Handguns-in-Canada.html
http://www.rfcsask.ca/Doc/mortality.html
http://www.macleans.ca/canada/national/article.jsp?content=20080418_173830_6692&page=1
http://makinit.ca/crimerate.html

[Remmah2]

114. I live in Buffalo, friends in Fort Erie.

What happened during the great Canadian "gun" registration was that protesters also registered grease guns, high capacity nail guns, staple guns. The administrative clerks who were so overwhelmed and not familiar with firearms often processed into the system the bogus "guns". A great protest.

Canadian humor, go figure.

Assault nail gun:


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