New bill to allow returning military to register NFA "trophy" weapons

[aikoaiko]

This is interesting. Bring backs could be the crack in the moratorium.

Sen. Tester's bill would allow combat veterans to register trophy firearms
April 18, 2011

(GunReports.com) – Senator Jon Tester has introduced legislation to allow American combat veterans to legally register firearms they acquired on the field of battle.

American veterans who acquired certain types of weapons during combat under rules of military conflict—guns known as “trophy” firearms—are typically unable to legally register the weapons.

Tester’s bipartisan measure would open a 90-day period for veterans and their families to register firearms for legal ownership. The bill would apply specifically to machineguns and other automatic firearms, and would not impact more common trophy weapons like bolt-action rifles or semi-automatic pistols, which do not need to be registered.

“This is about respecting America’s war heroes, and making sure they can pass on some of their heritage to their kids and grandkids,” said Tester, Chairman of the Congressional Sportsmen’s Caucus. “These are the same brave men who left their homes and crossed oceans to fight for the freedoms we enjoy today. If this bill will make it a little bit easier for them to pass on that history, then we should get it done.”

More at: http://www.gunreports.com/news/news/Tester-bill-would-allow-trophy-firearm-registration_2910-1.html

[rubberducky]

1. Whoopppiiieeee!!! More guns! Just what this country needs!

[aikoaiko]

3. Do I detect a smidgeon of sarcasm?

You should look up how many people have been killed in a crime over the last 50 years with a registered full-auto firearm.

It will impress you.

[Glassunion]

8. Ummm... This will not add "more guns".

The guns are already here. This is giving our veterans an avenue to legally register them.

[lawodevolution]

13. Your complaint is like whining about rain adding more water to the pacific ocean

You should take it easy, more guns does not equal more violent crime. The only real data out there suggest that fewer guns equals more violence.

[Vincardog]

2. 1) How are the illegal invasions and occupations "fight for the freedoms we enjoy today"?

2) How does handing down "machine guns and other automatic firearms", going to "pass on some of their heritage to their kids and grandkids"?

[aikoaiko]

4. The answer to the 1st part lies with our legislators who voted to approve and fund miltiary action.

As the grandson of a police officer, I am grateful that my family handed down my grandfathers service revolver to me.

[ileus]

5. I hope this gains traction...could net a lot of cash for vets.

[1620rock]

6. ...this is just fuckihg nuts.

[oneshooter]

7. Why? n/t

[cleanhippie]

28. Whats really nuts is saying something is nuts without explaining what one is saying is nuts.

[oneshooter]

33. You'r right that is nuts. n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

9. Loot!

How about a bill that allows veterans to purchase, or keep their service weapons, when they are honorably discharged instead?

I'm not so in favor of a measure that could encourage looting.

[jpak]

10. automatic trophy weapons + PTSD = ?

:shrug:

[TheWraith]

14. Right, because EVERY returning veteran is a murderer waiting for a chance.

Do you have any idea how much offensive nonsense comes out of your mouth in your ongoing attempts to slam anything and everything firearms related?

FOR THE RECORD, since you seem unable to learn this on your own: PTSD does not work the way you think it does. It doesn't make you a homicidal murderer. It doesn't even make you more likely to commit one single murder. In fact, the biggest safety risk for someone who has PTSD is accidental overdoses due to attempted self-medication. The millions of American vets walking around today are not all ticking time bombs.

[krispos42]

39. As opposed to semi-automatic weapons + PTSD?

Or manual-action weapons + PTSD?

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[GreenStormCloud]

42. You have just insulted every returning veteran. N/T

[one-eyed fat man]

45. Is that the mating call

of the Northwoods Yellow-Bellied Draft Dodger?

[PavePusher]

53. Broad-brush attack is still bigoted.

[Atypical Liberal]

11. Meh, spoils of an illegal war.

Look, I'm pro-gun, but I just can't get excited about this.

The whole idea of "trophies" from war is kind of sick, anyway.

But this particular war is an abomination. It was all started on a pack of lies (WMDs), and has been nothing but American imperialism trying to maintain control access to oil in the Middle East.

Bringing back anything of value from this immoral expedition is nothing more than ill-gotten spoils of an unjust war. It's sanctioned looting.

I don't support this.

[oneshooter]

12. I guess I should throw away my SKS carbine.

Built in the USSR I got it in 1971 from a fellow in the RVN who didn't need it anymore.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Glassunion]

16. Is there anything you don't have?

[oneshooter]

17. Yea, Quite a bit actually. But this is the only thing, .....

besides scars and memories, that I brought back from there.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Glassunion]

23. I would love to go shooting some clays with you, if I ever make it back to Texas.

But business has been keeping me in the northeast.

What years were you over there?

[oneshooter]

24. USMC 1970-1978, RVN 1971 1972-3 n/t

[Glassunion]

46. You just missed my uncle. But his stay was short...

He served in the Marines as well. RVN Feb to Jul 1966.

[oneshooter]

49. Not much of a shootsgunner.

But I can get you into a Highpower Match, or a BPCR Match with no problem.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Starboard Tack]

18. You must feel very proud every time you look at it

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[Starboard Tack]

20. Yes I am at times

I feel for all who had to engage in illegal combat and in that regard you have my full sympathy. I think the whole thing was a tragedy for the nation and especially for our generation. What I find incredible is that you would ever want to touch a military type weapon again unless you show it as a symbol of our national shame.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Starboard Tack]

31. I am not going to alert on your lovely personal insults

You know nothing about me or where I was, but you'd be surprised. Enjoy your guns and your insults.

[Straw Man]

41. About you.

You know nothing about me or where I was, but you'd be surprised.

Go ahead: surprise everybody. I'm in the mood for a little mythomaniacal diversion.

Just a lifestyle hint: You know that bit where you show sanctimonious condescension toward people who have made real sacrifices in pursuit of their duty as they saw it at the time? Lose it. It gives liberals and progressives a really bad name, not to mention making you look like a ... You know, one of those ...

Words fail me.

[Starboard Tack]

51. "Words fail me" - I guess they do

So you'd better stick to your trusty sidearm, which I'm sure will never fail you.

[Straw Man]

52. I think I made my point.

Rhetorical devices aren't your strong suit.

[rl6214]

38. I thank you for your service

I know a few that served in Vietnam and I know that was the beginning of a new type of war and forced many people to deal with it in many different ways. I no way should you be insulted, trivialized or made fun of in how you deal with what went on over there. There is no way any of us could know what went on or how we could deal with it if we weren't there.

Again, thank you for your service.

[oneshooter]

50. It was my job at the time. Just like millions of others have done. n/t

[RSillsbee]

54. Fuck the haters man

Welcome home and thank you

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[aikoaiko]

22. The proposed law is really not about the wars Iraq or Afgan.

[one-eyed fat man]

27. Hate to bust your bubble

But Army regulations have not permitted war trophy firearms since Viet Nam. Current DoD policy for ordinary soldiers (enlisted and officer), nothing qualifies to be brought back unless it is pre- 1898 and thus not considered a firearm under Federal law. Congress did, however, exempt Flag Officers specifically from NFA provisions in the GCA'68. Another reason to get promoted to General or Admiral besides your very own personal G.O. model Colt pistol.

Military veterans traditionally bring home weapons from wars, but over the years, the rules have been tightened.

This form dates from early during the Viet Nam war.

http://madbaronet.com/form_pdfs/DD603-1_non-gun_trophy.pdf

An Army regulation limiting the taking of "war trophies" was issued in 1969 because of the passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the inability to register NFA firearms.

Then in 1992, after the Persian Gulf War, Congress passed a law setting procedures for taking "war booty." Notice that even edged weapons, such as swords or bayonets no longer are permitted.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/infomgt/forms/eforms/dd0603-1.pdf

What this bill is meant to address is there are still guns being found as WW2 vets die and their families discover the MP-40 Uncle Charlie brought back from Europe on the troopship in 1945. Remember, this was a time when soldiers traveled on the train to their next duty station with their rifle. No one, not Customs, not the War Department, not the MP's looked to see what was in the duffel and sea-bags of WW2 vets. Prior to GCA '68, bringing back War Trophy firearms was a minor paperwork drill and thousands of GI's didn't even bother with that.

Those old enough to remember back in the Fifties when the government initiated the DEWATS or DEactivated WAr TrophieS program to try and get some idea of just how clever 8 million GI's had been in bringing home souvenirs. The idea was to get all those machine guns registered and deactivated in exchange for not paying the $200 tax. In fact, often the penalty for simple possession of a machine gun in those days (absent any other crime) was being made to register and pay the tax or give up the gun.

With the passage of the Gun Control Act there was in the legislation an amnesty. The NFA amnesty period ran from November 02, 1968 to December 01, 1968. During that time anyone who had any kind of NFA weapon could simply fill out a Form 4, no CLEO sign off, no tax and register it. I am certain there are plenty of folks here, who during their more lucid moments between acid trips can say they never heard of such a thing in 1968.

Even most folks who were interested in guns didn't. There was no advertising, no public service announcements on TV. Al Gore was still trying to figure out how to work the sling keeper an an M16 so too busy to invent the internet yet.

The intent was to get all those WW2 souvenirs on the books. It didn't. Every now and then one still turns up in an estate. The heirs can do nothing but abandon it to the government for destruction. That's all this legislation is trying to fix.

But none of that will matter. The blathering idiots who think GI's are shipping home RPG's and machine guns from Iraq and Afghanistan now will be all over here in a minute telling us how their second cousin's hair dresser's sister was a Marine Recon Seal sniper in an Underwater Messkit Repair Battalion and came back with a string of ears and semi-automatic machine gun AK-47 with banana clips.

[petronius]

32. Thanks, that's very comprehensive!

I hadn't thought that anyone was bringing home (legally, anyway) weapons today, so the story was a bit confusing...

[Atypical Liberal]

34. Ah, should have read the article.

Interesting that the OP did not post this relevant part of the article:

"The measure applies to any American veteran stationed outside the continental United States and who acquired a firearm in combat between June 26, 1934 and October 31, 1968. Congress granted a similar open-registration period in 1968—however, the relatively short 30-day period meant many veterans were unable to meet the deadline."

[Euromutt]

43. Call me pedantic, but I don't think you can loot military weapons

Looting is generally considered to be the indiscriminate taking of goods, particularly private and public property, and specifically items not required for immediate survival (such as water, food, fuel, shelter and medical supplies; taking such items is generally considered scavenging rather than looting). Under this definition, taking weapons issued by the opposing government to its agents is not looting. You can loot exhibits from a museum, or silverware from a private residence, or office equipment from a government ministry. It's also a violation of the Geneva Conventions to deprive a captured enemy soldier of his protective gear (helmet, gas mask, body armor), but it's perfectly legal to deprive them of "arms, horses, military equipment and military documents" (other than clothing, eating and cooking utensils, and identity papers; see Article 18 of the Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/FULL/375?OpenDocument).

[one-eyed fat man]

47. It is unlikely more than a couple of us recognize this marking

The Geneva Conventions, the Hague Convention with Respect to the Laws and Customs of War on Land, Convention for the Protection of cultural property in the Event of Armed Conflict; May 14, 1954 and such were more an item of professional interest.

[Euromutt]

48. I'm not sure I've ever seen one of those in the U.S.

Which isn't to say there's no cultural property in the U.S., but rather, I suspect it's because nobody has ever expected a ground war. In Europe, of course, they're all over the place, on every museum and listed historical building.

But yeah, between military service and working for the UN war crimes tribunal for the former Yugoslavia for several years, I'm all too familiar with that sort of thing.

[lawodevolution]

15. Either open or abolish NFA. We have NICS checks and that's all we need to determine

If someone is safe with a full auto weapon.

[Bold Lib]

25. Either open up an blanket amnesty for everyone or none at all. That "equal protection" thing

is such a pesky thing to deal with.

[aikoaiko]

26. I'm ok with small steps toward that goal.

If returning military were permitted to register their machine gun bring backs it would only be a matter of time .

[DissedByBush]

35. Except most military commanders prohibit trophy items

So this won't do much.

[aikoaiko]

37. And yet it happens often. My friend just brought back an Enfield from Afghanistan.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

36. I'm only open to this idea because it pave the way to repealing the Hughes Amendment.

[aikoaiko]

44. Yes, you see the big picture too.

[GKirk]

55. EVERYONE! Take a breath...

...it ain't gonna happen.