Knife, rather than gun, becomes weapon of choice in Australia

[alp227]

I just found this TV news report from Channel Ten in Australia about knife crime in that country. ABC (Australia) reports on the same topic:

A study into knife crime in Australia has found armed robbers in Tasmania are more likely to use knives than in any other state.

Nearly 30 per cent of armed robberies in Tasmania involve knives, compared to 20 per cent nationally and 11 per cent in Western Australia.

At the other end of the scale, Tasmania had the lowest rate of murders from stab wounds at 20 per cent, compared to 59 per cent in Victoria.

So what does this imply about gun control and concealed carry of weapon policy when trying to curb violence? Will people just resort to other methods of committing violent acts? And the Channel Ten report even mentions that Australian children have been involved in knife combat.

[gejohnston]

1. Interesting thing is that

Tasmania had pretty lax gun laws, by their standards, including machine gun ownership, until 1993 when the federal gov basically blackmailed it like our drinking age. I would like to see a larger study on before and after gun laws and the effect on weapon choice.

[TPaine7]

2. People killed with knives are only 3/4 dead, gun victims are 100% deceased. n/t

[rrneck]

3. If they're mostly dead

a big chocolate covered horse pill will fix them right up.

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=xbE8E1ez97M

[Oneka]

7. but ya gotta

wait at least 15 minutes for full potency.
And don't go in swimming for .... at least an hour..

[rrneck]

19. If i only had a

Holacaust Cloak my plan might work.

And a wheel barrow.

[beevul]

17. "I've got great news..."

"I've got great news,Your friend is only mostly dead"







"have fun storming the castle..."

[rrneck]

18. Gah!

:rofl:

[WatsonT]

14. People killed by cars barely even register on that

as those numbers are constantly ignored or deride by the anti-gun folks.

[beevul]

16. No no no.

"People killed with knives are only 3/4 dead, gun victims are 100% deceased."

No no no.

Haven't you learned by now, that people killed with guns are 150% dead?

They're twice as important as people killed with knives.

Pay attention to what our betters keep showing us fercrysake!!!

:rofl:

[sakabatou]

4. That's not a knife.

Now THIS is a knife.

[CurtEastPoint]

5. FAVORITE line! Watch:

http://youtu.be/01NHcTM5IA4

[pnwmom]

6. We'd be better off if semi-automatic handguns got replaced with knives.

You can't kill a dozen people in a few seconds with a knife.

[Oneka]

8. In close quarters with the some training and two of these ... ...

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/cold-steel-gurkha-kukri/148f5af827053b139b66148f5af827053b139b66-854777725604?cpkey=8ed0db4a14d5a35b737f8ed0db4a14d5a35b737f-924187165787|gurka%20kukri||&q=gurka%20kukri

[pnwmom]

9. yeah, right. n/t

[Union Scribe]

10. So the cops would have to get in knife fights with people?

For some reason, I don't think they'll go for your plan. Nor will anyone owning a gun for self defense, since even when you "win" a knife fight you'll likely sustain life-altering injuries.

[era veteran]

11. Rules in a knife fight, 1,2,3, go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWTNBRs7Ccs

[pnwmom]

27. Are the cops using knives in Australia? No, I wasn't talking about the police.

[GreenStormCloud]

12. I can't out run a guy with a knive nor can I outfight one.

I am helpless against someone with a kinife, unless I have a gun. Mass shooting don't happen very often, but knife muggings are so common that they don't make the news. I need my gun if I ever have to face a guy with a knife. The best part is that the knife mugger will likely run away from my gun and I won't have to shoot him.

[krispos42]

13. It's harder to do so, that is true

It's also more intimate than shooting at a distance.


However, the issue is often treated as THE reason to sharply reduce gun ownership... the fear of several mass-casualty shootings a year. However, the larger issue is overall homicide rates.


IF mass shootings go to nothing because of sharp restrictions on gun ownership, BUT the overall level of violent crime (including homicides) stays level or creeps upwards, then you are expending an enormous amount of political capital, legislative capacity, and money to restrict something that is effectively useless from a statistical standpoint.

IF that same political capital, legislative capacity, and money had been used to, say, legalize pot, that would do far more for the violent crime rate (including homicides) than an arbitrary waiting period for guns or an arbitrary magazine-capacity limit.

[eqfan592]

22. Bingo! NT

[WatsonT]

15. So the physically frail, if they wish to defend themselves

must pit themselves against the physically strong in a test of strength, endurance, and brutality?

Awesome.

I mean, why isn't grandma an expert knife-fighter? There is no reason I can think of. She can choose to learn and master the skill or else she deserves to be raped and/or murdered.

[rrneck]

20. If all someone has is a knife

and they want to kill a bunch of people they change tactics and select a softer target.

The elderly, children and disabled will love your plan.

[gravity556]

39. re: If all someone has is a knife

If the only weapon someone has is a knife, they are quite capable of inflicting lethal injuries as well and crippling injuries. Sorry anti's, but I've got enough metal bits in my spine and nerve damage in my legs to prevent me from running away, and only a fool thinks that being slashed and stabbed with a sharp implement is somehow less dangerous than a gun. I'll stick with my G19, thanks.

Though if you're morally opposed to defending yourself with a firearm, you're free to try and reason with a knife weilding criminal....

[eqfan592]

21. You also can't defend yourself worth a damn either...

...not without some training anyway, and especially so if the other person is armed in any way. Keep in mind that multiple victim shoots that you are describing are amazingly rare and make up an extremely small percentage of violent crime.

[GreenStormCloud]

40. Basic self-defense training with a gun is easy and can be done in one day.

Most self-defense combat is extremely close range so a high level of marksmanship isn't needed. Anybody can hit a human sized target at 10 feet, even without using the sights. Most non-police defensive shooting is 10 feet or under. You will have a difficult time convincing a jury that you shot someone in self-defense when they were 100 feet away, so developing the ability to be accurate at 100 feet isn't needed.

Guns, especially revolvers, are extremely easy to operate. No intensive training needed there. Defending oneself with a gun is quite easy. That is why they are the weapon of choice.

The training that a person needs is mostly in applicable law, threat evaluation, and situational awareness.

[rl6214]

30. Yes you can

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1376982.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/five-settlers-die-in-west-bank-knife-massacre-2577517.html

[eqfan592]

31. Thanks for posting those...

...I recalled several such incidents being posted here, but have long since lost the links. I was hoping somebody would bring them up in reply to this post.

[rl6214]

34. Just gotta make sure all the facts are out there.

[PavePusher]

36. Proof that you know nothing about knife fighting....

and don't mind the strong dominating the weak.

Silly me, I thought we developed tools and civilization to get away from exactly that...

[ThoughtCriminal]

23. Compare Homicide rates to U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homicide_rate

Our homicide rate is 4x higher and homicide rates have been dropping in Australia. So they switch to a less effective weapon. Yes, it does imply something.

[eqfan592]

24. Did you look at the stats on there?

Our homicide rate has also been dropping. Also, our numbers are likely inflated compared to theirs as ours include "attempts" apparently, and Australia's does not (according to your source anyway). Also, did you happen to look at their crime rate in general? You should do that.

[ThoughtCriminal]

26. Checking - US rate does not include attempts

The FBI source cited has that rate for Murder and non-negligent manslaughter and assault in a different category. Although there has been a decline in the past few years (2009 was especially good) The U.S. is definitely still the homicide leader among western democracies.

There are various theories on the U.S. crime rate decline.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1963761,00.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0524/US-crime-rate-is-down-six-key-reasons

I cannot say if the same reasons apply to Australia. But mostly what the OP shows is evidence against the notion that gun laws have no affect on criminals. They switched to knives, which are not as effective or lethal.

[eqfan592]

28. Sorry, but you are wrong...

....you are confusing correlation with causation. There is yet to be solid evidence to support the idea that more or less guns in a society equate to more or less crime. There is nothing particularly magical about a firearm that generates more or less crime, period.

As for knives being not as effective, it really depends on the situation. A knife against an unarmed person is still most likely going to end with the same result as a gun against an unarmed person. As for knives being less lethal, this is just plane incorrectly. Not as lethal at range, maybe, but a knife wound can be far more gruesome than a bullet wound.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out that the difference between correlation and causation has been pointed out hundreds of times in this forum. It would do you well to search around for these examples.

EDIT 2: I think the clearest place we can look at that shows a reverse correlation is Switzerland. They have a very high firearm ownership rate but an intentional homicide rate well below that of Australia. So I'll say it again, correlation =/= causation.

[spin]

29. Knifes are not as lethal? Are you kidding?

Watch this video It compares the damage that a .357 magnum does compared to a knife.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwS9bV5X488

or this video of a smaller knife:

http://tv.coldsteel.com/?id=26SP

but then again there is always a sword. (watch this video until the end)

http://tv.coldsteel.com/?id=88DK

[PavePusher]

35. Umm, you obviously know nothing of knife fighting or knife wounds.

That's O.K., most people don't. But it's silly to display your ignorance for all the world to see.

[gejohnston]

37. when you look at US's murder rate by weapons other than firearms

like baseball bats for example, it is still higher than all of their murders combined. Their corporate media (even the kind of public owned like the BBC) slants stories to serve the editors and other masters, just like here. So, I never take any of that stuff at face value. Important lesson I learned from Fox and the Iraq war cheerleaders at CNN.

[gejohnston]

25. dropping here too

so it does not imply anything. Now compare Australia and Finland, where (according to the latest UN survey) 52 percent of the households have firearms. Then look at places like Costa Rica, Russia, Mexico, and South Africa. I don't know about Australia, 94 percent of our homocides are committed by felons, who are barred from possessing a firearm since the 1930s. Much of it has to do with the drug trade. That is why I say the average bong owner contributes more to gun violence than the 99.9 percent of all gun owners combined.

[eqfan592]

32. Bingo!

If we could get rid of the war on drugs, much of our homicide problem would evaporate over time.

[gejohnston]

33. and the gangs left will go back to knives, tire chains, and

homemade zip guns because they won't have the money to buy guns. You might be too young to remember life before Nixon's WOD, but that is what gangbangers did. If they had a gun, it would be a Clerke or RG.

[gejohnston]

38. why I should not post while half asleep.