GUNS IN THE NEWS--March 11, 2004

[MrBenchley]

As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.
2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.
3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) or intentionally pro-gun or pro-control sites (such as the NRA or the Brady Campaign) are not considered reliable sources by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link for your story from a more mainstream source, such as a general-circulation newspaper or magazine site. If you choose to use a slanted site, be prepared for any negative feedback you may receive.
4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.
6 - The person adding a news story to the "GITN" thread is allowed (and encouraged) to comment on that story, indicating their position on the topic being discussed. These comments can appear either at the beginning or end of the post; if possible, place comments in a different typeface so readers can separate the comments from the story. Others who wish to comment on a posted story can do so by replying to that story; this allows other readers to follow the comments by scrolling through the subthread.
7 - Please direct your comments to the story, rather than attacking the person posting the story or any person responding to the story. In accordance with DU rules, any message that appears to be a personal attack against another DU-er or a violation of any other DU rule will be reported to the moderators.
8 - If you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.

[JohnLocke]

1. Grits seek harsher gun-crime penalties (Canada)

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/LondonFreePress/News/2004/03/11/377675.html

[MrBenchley]

2. Eldridge man sentenced on gun charges (IA)

<sarcasm>Yeah, here's the sort of voter Democrats should be pandering to: the armed nutcase with an arsenal...</sarcasm>

"Ray - formerly of 840 E. Iowa St., Apt. 3C - was sentenced to 70 months in prison for possession of a firearm after conviction of domestic abuse.
      Judge Robert W. Pratt of the U.S. District Court of Southern Iowa handed down the sentence March 1. Pratt also ordered Ray to serve two years of supervised probation upon his release.
      According to Al Overbaugh, law enforcement coordinator, the sentence was enhanced because Ray had five semiautomatic weapons - three Tec-DC9 9-mm pistols, an AR-15 rifle and a Franchi 12-gauge shotgun - in his possession when officers executed a search warrant at his home in February 2001.
      Eldridge police and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) seized 72 firearms from the residence, including the five semiautomatic weapons."

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1839&dept_id=110408&newsid=11094871&PAG=461&rfi=9

[JohnLocke]

3. That's quite an arsenal, 72 guns...

[MrBenchley]

4. One wonders what he was doing with them...

I suspect that more than one gun is not needed to defend oneself on the mean streets of Eldridge, Iowa....especially since this twisted bit of fluff seems to be the local crime problem all by himself.

[demsrule4life]

9. That ain't no arsenal

I know two people with 400+ guns
four with 300+
one with 200+ including two 20mm cannons
my best friend has 100+

All these guys are retired Army/Air force and none of them has ever committed a crime.

[CO Liberal]

12. IMHO.....

...your friends seem a but compulsive to me. Talk about "overkill".....

[demsrule4life]

22. Overkill isnt the word

they collect guns. Of course people think I'm nuts for having 15 large dogs.

[demsrule4life]

44. Also, is compulsive the only word you can come up

with for a group of guys with over 160 combined years of service and two of them that left body parts behind?

[CO Liberal]

45. Don't Go There, Dems

I've had it up to HERE with the attitude that people who served in the military are somehow better than everyone else.

True, many people go into the military to serve their contry. But others go in because they can't make it in the civilian world.

[demsrule4life]

52. Thank god we gave our allegiance to the Constitution

and not the people.

[FatSlob]

16. I'm pretty pitiful compared to them,

My collection probably wouldn't hit 20. I definitely could use some more. I'm looking for some WWI and WWII stuff.

[MrBenchley]

18. No comment...

[slackmaster]

17. His collection is about twice the size of mine but it's still a collection

The main purpose of most of the firearms I own is financial investment. My collection is literally a part of my retirement savings.

[Wickerman]

37. I once heard that you are a collector

if you had more than 6 of any one thing. Don't know what that has to do with the price of SPAM in Russia, but just really felt the need to contribute to this conversation.

[slackmaster]

38. My definition is 3 or more of anything

So my gun collection is a collection of collections:

- US military firearms of World War II

- Firearms designed by John Moses Browning

- German handguns

- Swedish Mauser rifles

etc.

It's really a very interesting hobby if you like metal things and/or weapons.

[NorthernSpy]

20. my collection

My collection is: one shotgun. Except it doesn't work. And it's not even technically mine. :)


I know that 70+ guns sounds like a lot. But people who collect large numbers of guns rarely ever do so as part of some plan to kill and destroy, any more than car collectors are all secretly plotting vehicular homicide. No one would drag along a hundred guns on a crime spree anyway, especially when just one or two would do.


Mary

[MrBenchley]

21. On the other hand...

It couldn't be that this guy is a gun dealer for other criminals, could it?

[slackmaster]

23. No such allegation appears in the article

Where did you get that idea, MrBenchley?

[CO Liberal]

25. Some People Look Upon a Large Number of Guns as "A Collection"

Others look at it as "inventory".

[slackmaster]

26. If the police ever raid my house by mistake it could make national news

However briefly.

"Dozens of firearms including assault weapons."

"Thousands of rounds of ammunition."

"A German machine gun that is being examined by federal agents."

And you'll never hear that every firearm I own is 100% legal, that the "assault weapons" are lawfully registered, or that the machine gun is a non-firing display piece.

[MrBenchley]

30. While we're about it.....

wonder if the RKBA crowd's newest hero stole any of those guns?

From the story: "He added that officers had numerous run-ins with Ray on previous occasions, a number of them involving harassment and theft complaints."

[iverglas]

5. possession of "a" firearm??

I guess that maybe when he was sentenced on that domestic abuse charge, they asked him "do you have a firearm?" and he truthfully replied "no" (I have 72 firearms).

Of course, if people had to have acquisition permits to buy those things legally, and had to register ownership and transfers of them ... well, they might not have had to ask him. Mind you, I suppose he could still have acquired 72 firearms ... of that nature ... from someone, somewhere, without a licence and without registering them ...

Of course, as the years go by, and if all owners had to be licensed, and all new acquisitions had to be registered, it might get just a little harder to acquire firearms that way, but why start now?

.

[slackmaster]

15. A reason why not to start registration of all guns now

In most states, a politician who proposes or supports such a scheme will have no chance of being elected to Congress or the Presidency.

A candidate for US Senator from California or some of the other strongly "liberal" states might be able to get away with it, but that kind of gun control does not play that well in most of the USA. People generally don't have a problem with background checks on gun buyers and the existing proscriptions on certain people having guns, but registration would be seen by many as an unacceptable invasion of privacy.

[MrBenchley]

6. Johnson testifies about gun violence (PA)

"Testifying before a City Council committee yesterday in favor of a series of gun-control bills, Police Commissioner Sylvester M. Johnson said that most of the city's homicides were committed with guns and called gun violence "one of the most serious crises facing our great city."
At yesterday's hearing before Council's Public Safety Committee, Johnson said that in 2003, there were 348 homicides in Philadelphia, of which 273 - or nearly 80 percent - were committed with guns.
In that same year, 1,140 Philadelphians suffered from gunshot wounds, and 1,958 more were victims of aggravated assault by gun, suffering no injuries "thanks only to the bad aim of the shooter," the police commissioner said.
There were more than 7,500 calls to 911 reporting gunshots, he said.
Such brazen use of guns, Johnson said, led to last month's death of 10-year-old Faheem Thomas-Childs, who was wounded in the face during a shoot-out between warring drug factions as he walked to his North Philadelphia school. He later died of his injuries."

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/8146609.htm

[MattPinNC]

7. Robbery Suspect Shot in Apartment (NY)

One for the Defense!

Robbery Suspect Shot in Apartment

http://www.wixt.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=9A7E813B-1F3D-4D1A-B188-66CF455FE130

Police say a Syracuse man has been shot after breaking into an apartment for the second time in four days. Police have arrested Willie Cooper for breaking into a Presidential Plaza apartment on Wednesday, and stealing a TV and clothing from the man living inside. Cooper came back to steal again Saturday night with two teens. But, when they broke in this time, the man heard them grabbed his shotgun and starting firing. Cooper was hit and was taken to the hospital, where he was also later arrested. The two teens are also facing burglary charges. The man who shot at them is not; police say he was acting in self defense.

VVV

[MrBenchley]

10. Four days old...

[MattPinNC]

8. Intruder Shot, Killed In Anderson Home (SC)

Darn... another for Denfending one's self. An Armed Citizen ...

http://www.thecarolinachannel.com/news/2904067/detail.html

ANDERSON -- One man is dead after a shooting in Anderson late Sunday night.

Anderson County Coroner Greg Shore said the shooting happened just before midnight at 1208A N. Main St.

Shore said a man broke into the apartment looking for money and found an ax. The man living in the apartment grabbed a gun and shot the intruder in the neck when the intruder came at him with the ax.

The intruder, Earnest Leroy Miles, 41, of Anderson, died at Anderson Area Medical Center a short time later.

Detectives said the apartment resident, Lance Myers, will not face charges.

VVV

[MrBenchley]

11. Three days old

[CO Liberal]

13. Now That You've Come, Saw and Conquered...

...please follow the guidelines that are posted at the top of each of these daily threads. To be considered current, stories have to be less than 24 hours old. This is done to prevent people from either side of the debate from dragging out old stories that support their agenda.

[MattPinNC]

14. So Solly MrB and COliberal

.. been away for a while, and catching up on my reading ... will be more current in future..

V

[texasdem99]

24. Yes! Yes, three days old. That means it never happened, right?

You know, you're right, MrBenchley. I think any pro gun stories are completely invalid if they are older than 24 hours. Let's pretend that they never even happened.

Yes, I've read the rules for this thread. Rules made by you, of course. So the story is a couple days old, so what? Maybe vinividivici has better things to do than to scour the Internet every hour of every day looking for negative gun stories.

[MrBenchley]

27. Gee, Pete, if you've read the rules, you've read this......

"8 - If you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread."

And you've also read that CO Liberal made the rules for the thread.

[slackmaster]

29. That's MrB's way of saying "Welcome aboard!"

That's just their way of being friendly in New Jersey.

[CO Liberal]

32. In Some Parts Of New Jersey......

...hospitality means a free pair of shoes. Made from cement. And a free car ride to the nearest river....

:-)

[JohnLocke]

56. Harsh, dude.

[CO Liberal]

57. I Was Born In New Jersey

Lived there for 42 years before moving west in 1994. (YOU do the math..... :-) )

[Spoonman]

43. Good advice!

Here's some more....

Practice what you preach!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x44294#44314

HERE WERE THE "RULES" OF THE THREAD WHICH YOU REPLIED TO.

.... Here are the ground rules.....

1. Discussion to remain civil
2. Cite the sources you find, or give your credentials as to why you should be believed.
3. Penis references are not allowed.
4. This is not a discussion about the merits or lack of merits of gun-control. It is strictly facts.
5. Even though I am an NRA life member, NRA sources are not allowed, nor are sources from similar groups. Similarly, HCI/VPC/AGS and similar pro-control groups are not considered valid sources.

Good enough? After these facts are proven or disproven, then I will start another thread where we can opine on the facts found.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

47. Oak Park wife charged in her husband's slaying (MI)

"A 40-year-old woman was charged Wednesday with second-degree murder in the shooting death of her 42-year-old husband in their Oak Park home.
Arraigned in 43B District Court in Oak Park, Dawn Gillespie also was charged with manslaughter, an alternate charge to murder, and possession of a firearm in commission of a felony.
She is being held without bond in the Oakland County Jail and if convicted, faces up to life in prison.
Oak Park police arrested Gillespie on Monday evening, shortly after her husband, Dennis Gillespie, was shot at about 6 p.m. A relative told police she said she shot her husband.
Police said alcohol is believed to be involved. "

http://www.freep.com/news/locoak/nshot11_20040311.htm

[CO Liberal]

28. If You Don't Like the Guidelines, Pete...

...you don't have to participate in these threads.

We established these guidelines several moinths ago because a few pro-gunners were constantly dredging up the same stories from several years back about machete attacks and people who couldn't get to their guns because they were locked up, and so on. By limiting these threads to stories that are less than 24 hour, it's kept timely.

No one is saying that older incidents never occurred - just that they're no longer news.

(I find it interesting that the only people who ever complain about the voluntary guidelines are pro-gunners.....)

[texasdem99]

39. Understood, my bad

Sorry, I should have read the rules more closely.

Thanks

[slackmaster]

31. In defense of CO Liberal and MrBenchley

The March 8 GITN thread is still open:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=43375&mesg_id=43375

[MrBenchley]

19. Woman Shot Dead In Monroeville, Man Questioned (PA)

"A 40-year-old woman was fatally shot early Thursday morning in the Alpine Village area of Monroeville, Channel 4's Emily Ryan reported.
The shooting happened around 3 a.m. outside a house on Tyrolia Drive.
Someone drove the woman to Forbes Regional Hospital, but she died upon arrival. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040311/lo_wtae/2046704

[MrBenchley]

33. Witnesses Hear Shots Fired Near School Bus (NM)

"ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- A report that shots were fired near a school bus had a number of parents concerned Wednesday afternoon.
A school bus from Lou Wallace Elementary School was nearby when witnesses said they saw a man with a gun, and then heard shots fired near the intersection of 14th and Lead."

http://www.thenewmexicochannel.com/news/2913666/detail.html

[MrBenchley]

34. Jury Finds Mario Bernal Guilty Of Murder (NM)

"A man who was injured in an alleged beating involving jail guards inside the Metro Detention Center last month was found guilty of murder Wednesday.
Mario Bernal, his face bruised from the alleged jail beating, was found guilty of first-degree murder in the 4-year-old shooting death and robbery of Filipe Jiron, 19.
"I don't think it's fair how (the jury) did (Bernal), at all," said brother Mathew Bernal.
But prosecutors called the jury's verdict justifiable. They said Bernal shot and killed Jiron in 2000 after robbing him of $10,000 inside. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=375&ncid=375&e=1&u=/ibsys/20040311/lo_koat/2046348

[MrBenchley]

35. Brothers get prison for city street 'shooting gallery' (PA)

"The enlarged color photographs spoke for themselves. They explained all a judge needed to say about why two young Allentown brothers were sent to prison Wednesday.
''It looks like something you would see at a shooting range,'' said Lehigh County Judge Robert L. Steinberg.
The photographs showed an Allentown street with small, numbered cards marking where more than two dozen shell casings landed.
''East Chew Street became a shooting gallery that night,'' the judge remarked, lamenting that the pictures captured an all-too-familiar scene.
The man who fired a .40-caliber gun 15 times, endangering the victim who fled and people in their houses, was sentenced to 21/2 to five years in state prison."

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-b4_5wattsmar11,0,2004037.story?coll=all-newslocal-hed

[slackmaster]

36. Vista hosts Civil War re-enactment (CA)

SAN DIEGO UNION-TRIBUNE
March 11, 2004

VISTA – Hundreds of Civil War re-enactors from the North and the South will converge on Vista this weekend to stage mock battles and hold artillery demonstrations as if it were 140 years ago.

The fourth annual spring Civil War Re-enactment will be performed Saturday and Sunday at the Antique Gas & Steam Engine Museum, 2040 N. Santa Fe Ave.

The setup will include a full-scale camp of historians, entertainers, food vendors and merchants. There also will be period music and tours of the museum.

On both days, camp tours begin at 10 a.m., artillery demonstrations at 11 a.m. and 1 p.m. and battles at noon and 2 p.m. Admission is $10 for adults, $8 for seniors and $5 for children ages 5 to 11. Children under 5 get in free. Parking is $2.

For full copyrighted article please see http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20040311-9999-news_2m11civil.html

My comments: Children are being enticed to go to an event that includes armed people dressed in the uniform of a former enemy of the United States. Sounds kind of like a 19th century version of the Knob Creek machine gun shoot.

The HORROR!

:freak:

[MrBenchley]

40. Man pleads guilty in 2002 abduction (NC)

"GASTONIA - A Gastonia man who kidnapped a group of church members in May 2002 and led them on a ride that ended in a police shootout was sentenced Wednesday to at least 27 years in prison.
Frankie Meeks Jr., 36, pleaded guilty in Gaston County Superior Court to one count each of first-degree kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon inflicting serious injury.
Many of the members of Friendly Hill Baptist Church near Lake Wylie, S.C., who were praying for Meeks were related to him. While the church members were praying, Meeks pulled a gun and forced them into a church van so he could find his ex-girlfriend, Martha Monroe. He ordered his stepfather, a member of the church, to drive.
At one point during the incident, Meeks ordered his stepfather to drive the van into Gaston County. When Belmont police officers stopped the van for running a red light, Meeks fired at them. They returned fire, injuring four hostages and shooting Meeks in the left shoulder."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/8156991.htm

[MrBenchley]

41. Morning Shooting Just Misses Child Inside Car (OH)

"Six or seven gunshots rang out near downtown early Thursday morning, police said.
Investigators found a car with its windows shot out on East Clifton Avenue in Over-the-Rhine, WLWT Eyewitness News 5 reported. A child inside the car was not injured.
According to eyewitnesses, several men ran from the scene moments after the shooting. Also, there was a report that someone was hit, but police haven't found any victims in the area. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040311/lo_wlwt/2047126

[MrBenchley]

42. Altercation Leads To Gunfire Near Local Store (OH)

Altercation Leads To Gunfire Near Local Store
"Police are looking for a gunman who shot a man in the parking lot of a corner store in the west end Wednesday night.
The victim was rushed to University Hospital with a gunshot wound to his chest. It was a chaotic scene as the man was hustled into the hospital's emergency room, WLWT Eyewitness News 5's Joelle Girone reported.
A verbal altercation prompted the shooting in front of the Jet-In Market at 1207 Linn St., according to police. The victim reportedly ran inside the store, asking someone to call for help because he sensed trouble moments before he was shot at about 8:30 p.m."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=410&ncid=410&e=4&u=/ibsys/20040311/lo_wlwt/2046696

[MrBenchley]

48. Deputies Search For Bank Robbers (SC)

"Investigators said two armed men wearing hats and white scarves over their faces walked into the Central Carolina Bank at 914 Anderson Street and demanded money.
Deputies said they also ordered employess and a customer to get on the ground.
The pair left in a black Chevrolet Blazer that belonged to a Spartanburg County resident.
Investigators found two handguns in the Blazer. They said the guns are being processed for fingerprints. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=401&ncid=401&e=3&u=/ibsys/20040310/lo_wyff/2045621

[MrBenchley]

49. Police Release Sketch Of Rice Village Gunman (TX)

"HOUSTON -- Crime Stoppers of Houston offered a $22,500 reward Wednesday for help catching a man accused of shooting a woman as he tried to steal her car from a popular Houston shopping center's parking garage in early March.
Officials released a composite sketch of the suspect who attacked the woman as she talked on her cell phone and entered her car parked in the Rice Village Parking Garage on March 3.
Investigators believe the man is armed and dangerous.
"This man had no remorse for what he did. He shot her just because she was trying to get away from him," Houston Police Department Sgt. Larry Doreck said."

http://www.click2houston.com/news/2914320/detail.html

[FatSlob]

50. Wounded man caught, arrested. (OH)

***Thank god the woman was armed***

http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/0310wounded.html

SOUTH VIENNA | A Mechanicsburg man who rode away on a bicycle after being shot in the neck Tuesday with a .45-caliber revolver during a domestic argument with his wife and her brother was later arrested on violence-related charges.


Eric Champlin, 22, of 8546 Brigner Road was released from Community Hospital after being treated for the gunshot wound.

He was shot at 5485 Lundy Lane and arrested at 5295 Lundy Lane, where he had fled, deputies said.

He was charged with felonious assault, felony domestic violence and aggravated burglary. He is to be arraigned today in Municipal Court.

(click link above for full story)

[MrBenchley]

51. Woman admits buying 2 pistols on behalf of felons (IN)

"A woman who bought a gun used in the slaying of a 3-year-old has pleaded guilty to federal weapons charges, prosecutors said Wednesday.
The case involved "straw purchases" of at least 28 guns from Don's Guns and Galleries, 3807 Lafayette Road, in which people bought guns and resold them to people who cannot legally possess firearms.
Chicago police recovered 11 of those guns during criminal investigations, prosecutors say.
Investigators say that in May 2003, Burnett purchased two semiautomatic pistols from Don's for two felons.
The men paid her $600 for the guns, authorities say, after going to the store with her and picking them out."

http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/128302-2815-009.html

[MrBenchley]

53. Two Bodies Reportedly Found Near Lansing Business

"Two people were reportedly found shot to death at an East Lansing martial arts institute Thursday.
The Institute Of Traditional Asian Martial Arts is located at 130 W. Grand River and Abbott, near the campus of Michigan State University, Local 4 learned. The bodies were discovered when students arrived at the building for a class around noon, according to WILX-TV in Lansing.
There are no suspects in custody, according to East Lansing police. Michigan State Police are also reportedly investigating the deaths. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040311/lo_wdiv/2047403

[MrBenchley]

54. Police Find Possible Suspect In Double Murder (FL)

"JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Police arrested a man Wednesday they think may be involved in a double murder on the Westside last week.
Investigators said 22-year-old Justin Settle, who is now in a Hernando County jail on a gun possession charge, is a possible suspect in the shooting deaths of two men.
Thomas Beverly and William Barronton were found shot in the head last week. Their bodies were discovered in a Westside home, along with a dead dog."

http://www.news4jax.com/news/2912994/detail.html

[MrBenchley]

55. Arrest Made In Southeast OKC Homicide

"Oklahoma City police have made an arrest in the investigation of a homicide that occured March 5 in southeast Oklahoma City.
Carla Sue Enloe, 37, was arrested and booked into the Oklahoma County Jail on a first-degree murder charge in connection with the deadly shooting that happened at 1636 Southeast 39th St..
James T. Martin, 32, was killed in the shooting incident. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=299&ncid=299&e=3&u=/ibsys/20040311/lo_koco/2039091

[MrBenchley]

58. Deputies: Pregnancy Announcement Sparks Family Disturbance (TX)

"Three men were arrested Wednesday night after a family disturbance turned tense and dangerous in northeast Bexar County.
Sheriff's deputies said when they arrived at a home in the 6700 block of Carter's Bluff, an armed man was threatening to kill everyone inside the house.
"He (armed man) was upset because his sister was pregnant," said Lt. Phil Breyer, of the Bexar County Sheriff's Department. "He ... punched some holes in the walls in the house and they said he was gonna shoot and kill everybody." "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=391&ncid=391&e=6&u=/ibsys/20040311/lo_ksat/2047086