GUNS IN THE NEWS--May 27, 2004

[MrBenchley]

As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.
2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.
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4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
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8 - If you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.

[MrBenchley]

1. Police Back Gun Lawsuit (NY)

A letter to the editor of the NY Times:

"I take issue with a statement in a May 21 news article that the police commissioner "took a position that undercut the argument of the city's civil lawyers" in New York City's case against gun makers and distributors. In fact, the Police Department supports the lawsuit and has been working with the Law Department on this case since its inception.
The police commissioner's letter in 2002 to Attorney General John Ashcroft, which you mention, addressed a ruling of a federal court in Chicago that would have permitted unrestricted release to the public of the firearms trace database maintained by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. New York City has sought access to that same information under the very different, guarded conditions of a judicial protective order.
STEPHEN L. HAMMERMAN
Deputy Commissioner for Legal Matters
New York Police Dept."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/27/opinion/L27POLI.html?ex=1086321600&en=869f52b8351967e7&ei=5006&partner=ALTAVISTA1

[MrBenchley]

2. Teen Shot While Riding Bike (FL)

"A teen who was shot in the back while riding his bike Tuesday is recovering in the hospital.
Dominique Cannon, 18, just graduated from Terry Parker High School.
Investigators say he was riding his bike through an apartment complex on Acme Street on the Southside when he was shot in the back. He's listed in good condition at Shands Jacksonville. Police don't have any suspects in the shooting. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/wdiv/20040526/lo_wjxt/2222932

[MrBenchley]

3. Modesto girl is killed in drive-by shooting at park (CA)

"A 17-year-old Modesto girl was killed in a drive-by shooting at Oregon Park in the airport neighborhood Wednesday evening, Stanislaus County sheriff's deputies reported.
The victim was sitting with friends on a bench in the park when a white, late-model Chevrolet Suburban drove up and stopped. Deputies said people inside the vehicle rolled down the passenger's side windows and opened fire.
Ernestina "Tina" DeJesus Tizoc was hit at least once in the upper torso, deputy Tom Letras said."

http://www.modbee.com/local/story/8628372p-9499862c.html

[MrBenchley]

4. Teen charged in shooting death of 9-year-old girl (MI)

"DETROIT -- A 17-year-old youth was arraigned Wednesday in 36th District Court in the fatal shooting of a 9-year-old girl who was killed when a gun the suspect was handling discharged.
Magistrate Renee McDuffy ordered Windsor Addy held at the Wayne County Youth Home until his preliminary examination on June 8.
Police say Addy allegedly killed Essence Felton on Saturday in her family's home in the 5000 block of Spokane, on the city's west side.
Witnesses told police Addy was playing with the gun and it fired. The bullet struck Essence Felton in the head. "

http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0405/27/metro-165655.htm

Quick...what group of twisted right wing loonies that includes odious nutcase Grover Norquist publishes a gun magazine for kids?

[Oaklander]

9. ROFLMAO!!!

Quick, how does the NRA have anything to do with the article? Do you suppose this 17 year old Detroit resident is an NRA member and reads their publications? How likely is that? Where did the kid get the gun? Where the hell were his parents? Why do you believe the NRA is responsible for this act but not the teen or his parents?

[CO Liberal]

18. Since When Is Someone Getting Shot A Cause for Laughing??

:shrug:

[Oaklander]

30. The shooting is in no way funny...

What's funny is the attempt to place the blame for this crime on the NRA, instead of where it belongs...on the negligent parents.

[CO Liberal]

37. The Nuts Ruining America Are Totally To Blame

They are opposed to comon-sense gun laws, like the one in Arizona keeping guns out of bars, or the one in California stiffening the panalties for improper gun storage.

This country would be much better off without the NRA, IMHO.

[Oaklander]

40. The NRA doesn't make the laws in this country!

If you want stronger laws then petition your representatives and make them change the laws. Quit blaming the NRA for your failure to act or the failure of your elected representatives to represent you as you see fit. Basically, quit your bitchin' and take some action. The NRA acts, that's why they get their way. You don't act so you get your life dictated to you by some punk-ass lobby group that pretends to represent gun owners.

You want a change, then go out and work for it. If you don't want to work for it then you obviously don't want it bad enough.

[CO Liberal]

43. You Obviously Don't Know Me

You come in here and think your opinions are better than anyone elses. Well, guess what, oaklander??? They aren't. You're just rehashing the same old pro-gun crap that's appeared on this board for ages.

Better people than you have been tombstoned off this board.

[Oaklander]

56. I'm sure they have...

Can't have dissenting opinions now, can we. Sounds like those intolerant buffoons over at FR. They don't like dissent either, and they sure as hell don't like to hear that the Emperor has no clothes.

[CO Liberal]

62. It's Not A Matter Of Dissenting Opinions....

It's more a matter of the same old illogical pro-gun crap being re-crapped.

[Oaklander]

68. When did it become illogical to claim that the NRA doesn't make our laws?

When did it become acceptable to blame the NRA for the failure of a segment of the gun owning public to behave in a responsible manner in regards to their guns? When will we, as a country, start to hold individuals responsible for their actions and not try to blame someone else?

[CO Liberal]

177. And When Will A Majority Of Gun Owners...

...admit that the Nuts Ruining America has been taken over by worthless scumbags, just like the RepubliKKKan Party has?

[Oaklander]

5. NRA to target 15 'uncooperative' senators

PHOENIX -- The National Rifle Association is targeting 15 state senators who refused Tuesday to support its plan to let people carry their guns where alcohol is served.

NRA lobbyist Darren LaSorte said his organization will "absolutely" work for the defeat at the polls of those who did not back SB 1210. "Our members expect us to," he said.

http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/nav_includes/story.cfm?storyID=87905

---

Like 'em or not, they're a damned effective lobby. How come the gun-control side doesn't have anything this effective?

[CO Liberal]

7. Because We Have Common Sense and Logic On Our Side

While YOUR side has to resort to strong-arm tactics.

[Oaklander]

10. Strong arm tactics or effective, legal use of the system?

The NRA can't force anyone to do anything, they simply organize and get out the vote better than the antis.

[CO Liberal]

19. Strong-Arm Tactics, Lies, Intimidation...

The standard NRA tools.

[Oaklander]

31. Yeah, they are pretty evil.

But damn, ain't they effective? When are the anti-gunners gonna get organized like this?

[CO Liberal]

39. Any Organization With Ted Nugent As a Leader....

...is inherently evil, totally useless, and should be forced out of existence.

[Oaklander]

42. I didn't realize Ted Nugent was the head of the NRA?

Did I miss that memo?

[CO Liberal]

45. He's On Their Board

And a very vocal spokesperson for them.

They don't bother with memos, because so many of their members can't read......

:-)

[Oaklander]

58. Yeah, gun owners are an illiterate bunch, eh?

I'm surprised that you would stoop to stereotyping individuals based on their membership in a particular organization. I expect that from others here but I thought you were a better debater than that.

[MrBenchley]

14. Drunks with guns...

Says it all, doesn't it?

[CO Liberal]

20. "Drunks With Guns" - That's an NRA Convention, Right????

:-)

[MrBenchley]

26. Seems like it, don't it...

Hope the Daily Show does an update...did you ever see their original report on this bill? It ended with their "correspondent" calling everyone in a motorcycle club bar "pussies" and then running down the street as they chased him, musing "If only I'd brought my gun...."

[Lamorat]

80. Whenever you hear

'common sense' when it comes to constitutional rights, it's time to run like the wind!

[enfield collector]

11. I'm a NRA member, Dem and Phoenix resident. I think

the NRA is dead wrong on this one. guns and alcohol definitely do not mix. I support CCW/right to carry although do not feel the need to carry myself

[CO Liberal]

22. There Are So Many Issues The NRA Is Dead Wrong On

This is just one of them.

[Oaklander]

33. You are correct: guns and alcohol don't mix.

However, here in Virginia it is legal to carry (openly, not concealed) into an establishment that sells alcohol. What is ILLEGAL is the the consumption of alcohol by anyone carrying a firearm. So, I can carry my gun, I just can't drink. That's a trade I'm willing to make. If I'm going out drinking I simply don't carry a gun.

[CO Liberal]

41. "Here in VIRGINIA"?????

Then what the hell is the NJ avatar doing on your posts?

:shrug:

[Oaklander]

44. I'm from NJ, born and raised. Bergen County, actually.

Just temporarily stuck here in Virgina. Couldn't get a job I liked in NJ so I took one down here. Since I travel a lot I'm really not here too often. I actually spend much of my time in Italy and I'm only back here every couple of months. However, since I'm unofficially a resident here I can get a concealed carry permit, so I got one.

[CO Liberal]

48. Small World

I was born in Montclair, NJ and grew up outside Morristown.

Moved west in 1994.

[Oaklander]

50. I know the area. I grew up in Oakland.

I wanted to stay in the area but couldn't find a job that I liked that also paid well. NJ is getting expensive. Maybe it's time to move further south, somewhere south of exit 4. I hear it's cheaper down there.

[RoeBear]

82. Funny that you would...

...comment on his avatar being misleading. Since your sig line is inaccurate (but still funny).

[library_max]

87. What industry would we use for funding?

What industry makes money by not selling guns?

[CO Liberal]

6. Security evaluated after gun brought to school (MD)

Wonder if this kid subscribes to that damn youth magazine printed by the Nuts Ruining America? - Wayne

* * * * *

Security evaluated after gun brought to school

By Deborah Gates
Daily Times Staff Writer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PRINCESS ANNE -- A student whom police say took a loaded, 25-caliber handgun to school was behind bars Wednesday, as the Somerset County Board of Education takes steps to improve safety at Washington High School.

According to Maryland State Police, the gun and a "stun gun" were concealed behind books in the school library and discovered May 11 by a librarian. Police say 17-year-old Robert B. West of Westover admitted to placing them there.

West was in the Somerset County Detention Center late Wednesday on $100,000 bail after being charged Monday with one count of transporting a handgun and two counts of possession of a deadly weapon on school property, police said.

"We were on top of it as much as we could have been given the circumstances," Somerset Superintendent of Schools Karen-Lee Brofee said Wednesday.

To improve safety, Brofee intends to have mirrors installed in the

<more>

http://www.dailytimesonline.com/news/stories/20040527/localnews/511599.html

[Oaklander]

12. Where were his parents?

Did the NRA issue him this pistol or, as is more likely, did he acquire it from home, where it was improperly secured by his parents? Don't you think it's time to put the blame squarely where it belongs....on poor parenting?

[CO Liberal]

24. Or Stupid Gun Owners???

AFAIK, anyone who owns guns around children and doesn't secure them properly is just plain stupid.

[Oaklander]

27. Yep. That about sums it up.

But let's blame the parents, not the NRA, for this kids access to guns.

[MrBenchley]

34. And who is that blocking all efforts to toughen penalties

for careless idiots with guns....oh, yeah, that would be the same scumbags who publish a gun magazine for kids.

[Oaklander]

49. Like I said before..the NRA doesn't make our laws...

Our elected representatives do. If you don't like what your elected rep. does, then elect a new one. If you don't like what the NRA does, take action to negate their power. Simply bitchin' about it doesn't change a damn thing. Only direct action to stop them will make a difference.

[MrBenchley]

53. Gee, that's hilarious....

[Oaklander]

55. It's hilarious that he NRA doesn't make our laws?

Last time I checked the NRA had no power to make laws. Do you know something the rest of us don't?

[MrBenchley]

60. It's hilarious that you want to pretend they don't set public policy

thanks to the scumbags in the GOP. But hey, far be it from me to point out fact while you're rambling...

[Oaklander]

63. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the NRA doesn't set any public policy.

They exercise influence over those that do so, if you don't like that, then change the people at the top to those who aren't influenced by the NRA. THAT'S the solution to your problem. Trying to stifle the free speech rights of the NRA is no more right than someone trying to stifle your free speech rights.

[MrBenchley]

65. You keep peddling that

and pretending that those right wing sewers contain fact...

[Oaklander]

69. Who mentioned sewers?

I am claiming that only the Congress has the power to make law. The NRA is merely a well organized, extremely vocal group that represents a small minority of Americans. If those opposed to guns and private gun ownership, and you claim that includes the majority of Americans, were to be as organized and vocal as the NRA then your side would be the one influencing the lawmakers.

[Hrumph]

83. Yeah, bench. You go, girl

Lessee here.... Legislating morality hase never worked but you think you can legislate intelligence?

If someone is going to be stupid enough to leave their gun unsecured you think a law is going to make them any smarter? You smoking crack?

[MrBenchley]

89. Happy to....

[library_max]

93. How about a law removing the gun from the equation?

Since we can't do anything about the stupidity.

[Oaklander]

103. Do you honestly believe Americans would simply turn in their guns?

How do you propose getting guns out of the hands of law abiding Americans, let alone criminals and the right wing loonies?

[library_max]

113. Well, gee, by your standards in another post,

If civilian ownership became illegal, all owners who didn't turn them in would instantly become criminals. So there would be no guns in the hands of law abiding Americans. Done and done. As for the process of getting them from criminals, that would take time. But guns are confiscated from criminals all the time. Every step would be a step in the right direction.

Anyway, I have a little more faith in law abiding Americans. I think more than half, at least, would actually abide by the law. Including many of the really stupid ones, who might otherwise let their kids get their hands on their guns.

[Hrumph]

120. Actually,

only the stupid ones would abide by such a law.

[library_max]

149. Well okay then, that's a big part of the problem solved.

Stupid people with guns are a big part of the problem.

[Hrumph]

165. Agreed

[Oaklander]

122. Your faith is admirable, if misplaced.

Yes, banning guns would instantly make criminals of otherwise law abiding citizens. That still wouldn't get the guns out of the hands of the public. There are over 65,000,000 guns in the U.S., and that's just the ones the government can account for. Look at how hard it is for the U.S. Army in Iraq. Over 130,000 troops are being killed, bombed, attacked, and harassed daily by a relatively small number of men with guns. Nowhere NEAR 65,000,000. Can you even begin to fathom what a shit storm would occur if the police began knocking on doors demanding guns? Do you understand how many 65,000,000 guns is? Sixty-five MILLION! Look at how much money and time it's taking Canada to register it's roughly 10,000,000 guns, and they're only trying to register them, not confiscate them.

[library_max]

150. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Worthwhile things take time. Anyway, do you really think fewer than half of all gun owners would disobey the law?

[Hrumph]

104. HINT....

You won't be able to do anything about the guns, either.

[Wcross]

98. Oh-NO! We agree on something! N/T

[MrBenchley]

16. How much more irresponsible can any group be

than to publish a gun magazine for kids?

[CO Liberal]

8. Senate votes adds new penalties for careless gun storage (CA)

I'd like to see a pro-gunner argue against this one.... - Wayne

* * * * *

Senate votes adds new penalties for careless gun storage

Associated Press

SACRAMENTO - Californians who keep guns where children can easily find them could be prosecuted with misdemeanor violations of state law under a bill approved by the state Senate Wednesday.

The bill also allows district attorneys to file either felony or misdemeanor charges for storing firearms in the same place a child can easily find its ammunition. Felony offenses usually come with state prison sentences while misdemeanor offenses lead to county jail.

"To store a gun improperly not only kills children, but depressed people who kill themselves," said Sen. Jack Scott, D-Altadena. "This is a rare issue on which gun safety advocates and responsible gun owners agree."

<more>

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/counties/alameda_county/8767600.htm?1c

[Oaklander]

15. WooHoo!!! Finally, a point we can all agree on!

It's about time we started holding parents accountable for the actions of their children, especially when their negligence leads to children getting unsupervised access to guns.

[MrBenchley]

21. Yoo hoo! Guess who?!?

If you guessed America's scummiest lobbying group opposed this common sense bill, you guessed right!

"Update on AB 2858, SB 1733, SB 1140 and SB 1152
....SB 1140, a bill that would make criminal storage of a firearm in the third degree punishable by imprisonment in a county jail, not exceeding six months and a fine not exceeding $1,000.....As of press-time, this bill had been forwarded to the Senate floor. Please contact your legislators and respectfully urge that they oppose these bills! "

http://www.nraila.org/CurrentLegislation/Read.aspx?ID=1097-L

[Oaklander]

25. Well, their actions don't necessarily represent me...

And they don't in this case. I support severe punishment for any adult who, either knowingly or through negligence, allows minors unsupervised access to guns.

[MrBenchley]

28. Yippee-fucking-doo....

Guess that's why you found kids getting shot such a big laugh above....

[Oaklander]

35. If you read my reply carefully...

You'd notice that I found your blaming the NRA for this tragedy as funny, not the actual shooting.

[MrBenchley]

46. If I gave two craps

I'd be a fool....

[Oaklander]

52. If you gave two craps...

about real debate or listening to an opposing point of view you'd be a much more engaging conversationalist. You are so blinded by your hatred for one organization that you attribute the actions of all gun owners and all gun organizations to that one organization and assume that their actions and speech represent all of us. They do not. Even you know that, on an intellectual level, but since they make a convenient whipping boy for you you flog them and, by association, flog all law abiding gun owners who chose to exercise their rights. YOU sir, are the kind of Democrat who gives the rest of us a bad name in this country. You're intolerant of others who don't believe exactly as you do, you belittle those who chose to think or speak differently than you, and you have no intention of engaging in a balanced debate, just like those idiots over at FR. You are content to spew your same six or seven patronizing lines over and over. It's gonna eat you up eventually, especially when you realize that the dozen or so people here on the boards are the only ones who even pay any attention to you.

Keep on exercising your rights, 'cause I'm gonna keep on exercising mine.

[MrBenchley]

59. Too TOO funny....

"real debate or listening to an opposing point of view"
Gee, is that what this stale half-assed "gun rights" gibberish is supposed to be? Sounds more like the same stale propaganda as always.

"their actions and speech represent all of us. They do not."
Yeah, I can tell by all those "pro-gun democrats" speaking out at gun owner forums against the NRA...oh, that's right. There aren't any.

"YOU sir, are the kind of Democrat who gives the rest of us a bad name in this country."
Hahahahaha....I give the "democrats" who dredge through Newsmax and post right wing horseshit a bad name. How fucking tragic for you. I'm sure it causes you grief when you put up all your pro-Democrat posts on gun wanker websites...oh, that's right...you don't.

[Oaklander]

66. Too TOO funny...

You just don't get it, do you. Your kind of venomous speech just reinforces the ideas spouted by the likes of Rush and his idiot followers that all democrats are gun-grabbing, intolerant, hate-mongers out to destroy this country. Keep up the good work. Every Democrat out there like you is just one more little shove toward four more years of the same shit we've had to put up with since 2000.

As for the NRA, who cares? They're not my concern. I'm far more worried about the likes of John Ashcroft and his gang. They're a far greater threat to this country and my rights than the NRA will ever be.

[MrBenchley]

75. Hahahahahaha.....

"Your kind of venomous speech just reinforces the ideas spouted by the likes of Rush and his idiot followers that all democrats are gun-grabbing, intolerant, hate-mongers out to destroy this country."
Gee, those are the very ideas that so many of the RKBA crowd are peddling here....go figure that....

"Every Democrat out there like you is just one more little shove toward four more years of the same shit we've had to put up with since 2000."
Ah, that wonderful RKBA "logic" or whatever the fuck it is...the only way to defeat the Republicans is to bend over and spreead cheeks for their ugliest extremist group. Actually opposing right wing fuckwits like the NRA and the Second Amendment Caucus is helping them get their way....sure glad I ain't got a speck of whatever the fuck THAT is, because it sure ain't logic.

Tough luck, binkie..."every Democrat like me" includes the Democratic presidential nominee, most elected Democrats, a majority of voters, and pretty much every liberal or moderate columnist.

"As for the NRA, who cares?"
Somebody cares...and they care about him. Wonder why our "pro-gun democrats" keep trying to sweep them under the rug and pretend they're not what they are?

[Oaklander]

77. Hahahahahaha.....

Gee, those are the very ideas that so many of the RKBA crowd are peddling here....go figure that....

I hope I'm never forced to live in a country where our rights are a laughing matter for the likes of you and your kind.

[CO Liberal]

13. Woman Accused of Waving Gun at Softball Game (AL)

The law-abiding gun owners we don't have to worry about strike again. - Wayne

* * * * *

Woman Accused of Waving Gun at Softball Game

May 26 - A valley woman accused of waving a gun at a local softball field is arrested.

<snip>

Witnesses say Monday night, Smith came to the softball fields near 5th Avenue and 2nd Street in Decatur waving a gun.

They add there were a lot of people at the fields, including many children.

<more>

http://www.waff.com/Global/story.asp?S=1898429

[Oaklander]

23. What would you have done if you had been there and she'd started shooting?

She went to a softball game and brandished a gun. Highly illegal, everywhere. Did she legally possess the gun? Luckily, no one was injured. But, what if you had been watching YOUR kids softball game, and this lunatic had opened fire. Wouldn't it have been reassuring to know that the police were just a 911 call away. Hell, they could have been there in a matter of three, four, maybe five minutes...tops.

If that had happened at YOUR kids softball game, what would you have done?

[CO Liberal]

29. What Would YOU Have Done???

Pulled out your gun and blown her away???

:shrug:

Stories like this only serve to make me more opposed to CCW permits. We don't need more guns out there - we need fewer.

[Oaklander]

36. Depends...

If she was merely brandishing her gun (which, incidentally was NOT concealed) I would have kept a close eye on her until the police arrived. If, however, she began firing her gun you're damned right I'd drop her where she stood. If my life, or the life of my family is at risk I wouldn't hesitate to shoot.

What would YOU have done in a similar situation?

[library_max]

96. I can see the headline now.

"Shootout at the OK Softball Diamond."

Hey, what if everybody in the stands had had a gun? Think how much "better" the situation could have become!

[MrBenchley]

101. For all we know...

This is somebody who's been lugging that gun around for months hoping for a chance to use it in just that way...who lost patience with the lack of "adventure"...

[Old and In the Way]

145. I can see it now.

Woman waving gun is shot by concerned, law abiding citizen. Another law abiding citizen, not knowing the context, shoots the shooter, another law abiding citizen shoot's the shooter's shooter, and so on and so on and so on.

[library_max]

151. Yup.

Dee-LIGHTED to see you here, by the way. What brings you down to the Gungeon?

[Old and In the Way]

161. The smell of gunpowder.....

it was wafting through LBN.

:-)

BTW, I have no problem with hunting and protecting one's private property. But that right stops when you enter the public domain. That's what we have police for....to keep the peace.

[Lamorat]

85. sigh..

CHL laws just even the playing field. The criminals that brandish or whatever will *still* have access. They always will.

I've had a CHL for years, and never had an incident that I was prepared to use it. There have been times I've been glad to be armed though, just in case.

Get over your phobia.

[MrBenchley]

32. Yeah, let's hope a shooting spree occurs at every softball game

I wonder if she brought her gun along just in case somebody else had one.....

[Oaklander]

38. Nope, she brought it along to commit a crime.

Once she brandished the weapon she became a criminal. She had no right to wave the gun around in a threatening manner and she should be punished for her actions.

What would YOU have done if faced with that situation?

[MrBenchley]

47. Yeah, surrrrrrrre.....

[TX-RAT]

51. Better question is , what would you have done?

This should be interesting.

[Oaklander]

54. Again, it depends on her actions...

If she was merely brandishing her gun (which, incidentally was NOT concealed) I would have kept a close eye on her until the police arrived. If, however, she began firing her gun you're damned right I'd drop her where she stood. If my life, or the life of my family is at risk I wouldn't hesitate to shoot.

What would YOU have done in a similar situation? How would you protect your family against a lunatic with a gun?

[TX-RAT]

57. If you cared about your family you would get them the hell out of there

Not involve them in a gun fight.

[Oaklander]

61. Absolutely, if possible.

It's almost always better to retreat to safety than to get in a shootout. However, there isn't always a place to retreat to, especially out in the open at a baseball field at the local park. The fact is these types of things happen fast and you really can't say what you'd do until faced with the situation.

[TX-RAT]

64. Great you took it from 1 lunatic with a gun to 2

Amazingly you failed to mention the crowd of people in the area.

[Oaklander]

67. You failed to mention that an armed citizen could stop a lunatic ...

Far sooner than the police could. Let's assume for a moment that the only person at the game with a gun was the lunatic. How many people could have been injured/killed before the police arrived? How many people could the lunatic have shot in three or four minutes? What would you have done if you'd been sitting there with your child and the lunatic opened fire?

[MrBenchley]

70. and you failed the mention that the armed citizen was a lunatic

in this instance...and that having another one running about would have been no help...

But then the entire case for "concealed carry" is entirely based on fantasies of the sort that used to highlight 1950s men's magazines...and that the words "innocent bystander" never intrude upon them, although they often do in the real world.

[Oaklander]

73. The woman with the gun was not carrying concealed now, was she?

A law banning concealed carry would not, nor will it ever, prevent a lunatic from taking a gun to the park and waving it around. What it WILL do is prevent the citizens at the park from stopping the lunatic before said lunatic can gun down an entire little league team.

Tell us, oh wise one, what would you have done had you been sitting in the bleachers at the field, watching your son/daughter/grandchild play ball, and said lunatic began shooting off her gun?

[MrBenchley]

79. Stay in fantasyland...

[library_max]

100. Whaaa?

"A law banning concealed carry would not, nor will it ever, prevent a lunatic from taking a gun to the park and waving it around. "

Okay, so the law that made it legal for her to have the gun and for her to carry it to the ballpark had nothing to do with the fact that she had a gun at a ballpark.

Reality, anyone? Anyone?

[Oaklander]

117. Laws only affect those who abide by them...

Criminals don't. Yes, it should be against the law to wave a gun around in a threatening manner. People who break that law should be punished. The law, however, will not stop people from acting dangerously. Law or no law, lunatics will always find a way to get a gun and wave it around in a public place. That's the reality of life. The ONLY thing you have control over is how you react to and handle a situation like that if it occurs. Just curious, how would you react?

[library_max]

123. Okay, so you're saying that this was a career criminal.

Ma Barker, I guess. Not some housewife that got a little too juiced up before the game and a little too excited during it.

It is simply not true that "lunatics will always find a way to get a gun and wave it around in a public place." This does not happen in countries with effective gun control laws, i.e. Britain. How is a housewife supposed to get into this black market you guys go on about and buy a gun if guns are not sold in legal outlets? If guns weren't sold legally, people like her wouldn't have them.

I would get myself and my family to safety first, and call the police at the earliest opportunity (I don't have a cell phone). Starting a shooting match would only make things worse. Any cop would tell you the same.

[Oaklander]

132. I would get myself and my family to safety first, and call the police...

Excellent plan. Right up to the point where the lunatic with the gun decides to target you and your family. Don't worry though, the police will be there in around four minutes, once you get to the phone and call them.

Do you think our ancestors survived the wilderness, the trip across the plains in a wagon, and frontier life by relying on the police to protect them and their families? I think they survived by being prepared to protect their families and their homes against whatever the threat, including the use of firearms if it became necessary.

Why are so many people willing to give up the responsibility for their own safety and turn it over to the government? I'm sure you are aware that more than one court has ruled that the police have no legal obligation to protect you, your family, or your property? How does that sit with you? Perhaps you'll call 911 and they won't have anyone to send to stop the armed lunatic. What then? Prayer?

[library_max]

152. Okay, reality check.

We're talking about some juiced-up housewife who got overexcited at a softball game, not John Dillinger or Crazy Horse. She didn't shoot anybody. She wasn't going to shoot anybody. I'm okay with what-if, but let's try to keep it within shouting distance of reality. No way was this ninny going to "target you and your family." Not, of course, unless you pulled a gun on her - then she might have some motive to do so.

Frontier days are over. Yes, private ownership of firearms made a lot of sense when wild animals were really a threat to ordinary people and when pioneers had to hunt in order to eat while crossing the wilderness. Note the use of past tense.

There are two things about being responsible for your own safety. Number one, it doesn't work. Guns kept for defense are more often used in crimes, stolen, or lead to serious accidents. Second, the same laws and practices that enable citizens to get guns for self-protection also enable criminals to get guns with which to commit crimes.

[Hrumph]

175. <heavy sigh> So much stupidity, so little time.

.

[MrBenchley]

176. Better rush and post all of yours, then...

although it looks like you posted all you had some time ago...and all of it was stale, too.

[Hrumph]

179. Again, you make no sense.

I had you on ignore for a year and a half because of your inane senselessness. I guess I should've left it that way.

Even though I may vehemently disagree with most folks points of view, I can see that they at least TRY to make a point now and then. You're just a troll, bench. And a bad one at that.

[MrBenchley]

180. Gee, and the downside for me is?

[library_max]

181. Sorry to hear that.

Let us know when you've got less of the one and more of the other.

[Hrumph]

No, not at all.

The point is that she was intent on doing something illegal.

You act as if she carried the gun there legally, and intended to conduct herself properly but that the presence of the nast, evil gun MADE her act as she did.

The belief that people will be deterred from aggrivated assault or murder by the threat of being prosecuted for carrying a weapon would be laughable if it weren so seriously deluded.

[library_max]

153. Waidaminute, let me get this straight.

This evil mastermind planned the whole thing in advance. Packing up the gun. Going to the ballpark. Waving the gun around like an idiot. Getting arrested. Probably getting convicted on a gun charge and disturbing the peace, reckless endangerment, etc. Yessss. I see. It all makes sense now. Not.

[Hrumph]

163. Evil mastermind?

Hardly. The stupidity of her actions pretty much rules out the "mastermind" label. Hothead is more accurate. The most likely explanation is that she got pissed of, said to herself "I'll show that so-and-so" and headed off to the ball park. Now, in a more rational frame of mind, this person would doubtless be able to tell you that it's illegal to brandish firearms in public places. Clearly, her actions were irrational.

If, on the other hand, you simply mean that you think it's unlikely that such an irrational state would persist long enough to get from one's home to a ball park and do something stupid, then you might just as well have dropped the silly sarchasm and said so.

At any rate, I disagree.

[TX-RAT]

72. Great

Lets throw in about 4 more armed citizens and we could have a blood bath, then would you be happy.

[Oaklander]

74. I'll be happy when the lunatic with the gun is no longer a threat.

What would make you happy?

[TX-RAT]

76. If you would stop with the what if fantasy's to prove your point.

[Oaklander]

78. Fantasy?

Haven't we been discussing an actualy event? Lunatic with gun at baseball game? Does any of that ring a bell?

[TX-RAT]

81. That part was over when she was arrested without incident.

[Oaklander]

94. And that's a good thing

But why not be prepared for the What Ifs in life? I've never had a fire in my home, but I have a fire extinguisher and several smoke alarms.

[library_max]

105. Please tell me that your fire extinguisher and smoke alarms

don't operate their function by shooting people dead. In your what-if scenario, the woman starts shooting and you shoot her dead. If you shoot to wound, that doesn't necessarily stop her from shooting. And of course it's not possible that you would miss and shoot someone else (someone accidentally moving into the line of fire, for example) by mistake. And even if you are this ultimate perfect vigilante shooter who never misses and never makes a mistake, why should other fallible mortals be allowed to do as you do and shoot people they think are dangerous in public places?

[Oaklander]

109. My smoke alarm and fire extinguishers are for life & death emergencies...

...just like my guns. I wouldn't shoot to kill or wound, only to the extent necessary to stop the lunatic with the gun from shooting anymore. As for fallible mortals I count myself among them. If your house catches fire do you simply sit down and wait for the firemen to come rescue you, or do you grab your fire extinguisher and try to put out the fire? Do you let your kids burn because it's not your job to fight the fire. It's the government funded fire department, right? Do you buckle up your kids in case of accident? Why? Won't the police stop the drunk or the speeder before he plows into your car?

I know that, should it ever come down to a life or death emergency, I am as prepared as I can be to defend my life and the lives of my family. Can you say the same thing?

[library_max]

119. You must own some very unusual guns.

I've never heard of a gun that can, for example, cause another person's gun to stop firing. Or project brain waves to make an idiot put her gun away. All the guns I've ever heard of, the only way you could use them to make anybody stop doing anything would be to shoot that person. And again, if you shoot to wound, that doesn't necessarily stop them. It might incite them to stop shooting into the air and start shooting at people (you, for one).

A fire extinguisher stops a fire from burning. A seat belt stops people from being thrown out of the vehicle. A gun cannot stop another gun from firing, and the only way it can be used to stop a person from firing another gun is to shoot that person. So the analogy just doesn't hold water.

[MrBenchley]

110. How many people feel the need to parade around

24/7 with a hidden fire extinguisher in their pants?

[Hrumph]

157. Infinitely more people than

are able to find a point in any of your posts, bench.

[MrBenchley]

167. Tough titty, binkie....

[Hrumph]

173. case in point

.

[Hrumph]

156. Wha'd she say?

"...your fire extinguisher and smoke alarms don't operate their function..."

WTF does that mean?

"If you shoot to wound, that doesn't necessarily stop her from shooting."

That's why people are trained to shoot until the threat is ended. They do not shoot with the intent of wounding or killing. As a matter of statistic, 93% of the people shot in this country with a handgun survive the incident. The vast majority of them do so without any permanent disability. But I digress...

"And of course it's not possible that you would miss and shoot someone else (someone accidentally moving into the line of fire, for example) by mistake."

Yes, of course it would be possible - but highly unlikely. People tend to run AWAY from a threat, not AROUND it. At any rate, the hypothetical 'hero' would be liable for any accidental shooting of an innocent person.

"And even if you are this ultimate perfect vigilante shooter who never misses and never makes a mistake..."

Let me ask you... If commissioned peace officers were presented with the same problem - a person reclkessly, or with dangerous intent, discharging a firearm in a public, populated area - What would you expect THEM to do about it? They have only two choices - Shoot the bad guy or wait for them to run out of ammo. MOST people would expect the cops to shoot the bad guy. Hopefully, you will admit that cops are people too and, therefore, imperfect beings. THEY could miss their target and hit an innocent JUST AS EASILY. More easily, in fact, because there will be more of them shooting in various directions. (And PLEASE, lets not go into that rediculous bullshit about cops having all that trainging and skill cuz it just aint true.)

The point of all this is that an armed civilian has pretty much the same options and the same opportunities for failure with very similar outcomes in either case. The point YOU'RE trying to make is a non-sequitur.

"why should other fallible mortals be allowed to do as you do and shoot people they think are dangerous in public places?"

In general, they can. But if you do it, you'd better damned well be able to prove you were right.

[TX-RAT]

166. (And PLEASE, lets not go into that ridiculous bullshit about cops having a

Got anything to back that up. Could this just be your opinion?
Whats a matter Hrumph, didn't make it through the academy. Unless your willing to talk about your dislike for law enforcement I'll just have to speculate.

[Hrumph]

170. On the contrary

I've never wanted to be a cop and never applied to the academy. Why would I wish to become that which I dislike?

My disdain for for law enforcement is simply a direct result of being around them. And just to head off the ubiquitous insult/accusation - No, I've never been arrested. As a group, I've been very unimpressed with law enforcement. Evidently, you are too, judging from your comments in another thread. The same thread, as a matter of fact, wherein I described just how incompetent the average LEO is with his weapon.

<shrug>I just developed a distaste for fat, bumpkin rednecks who only became cops so they could wear a badge and push people around.

[TX-RAT]

171. I must admit I'm glad your around

I needed a good laugh. Thank you and have a nice day.

[Hrumph]

172. And thank YOU for retiring. sssssssssssssEEYA!

.

[library_max]

182. Gee, where to begin?

That's why people are trained to shoot until the threat is ended. They do not shoot with the intent of wounding or killing.

How exactly would you shoot until the threat is ended? Again, does your gun shoot something that makes another person's gun jam, or something that protects other people from being hit by bullets from that gun, or brain waves that make the person decide to stop shooting? If not, there's no way to end the threat by shooting except to either wound or kill the other person, and wounding them is not at all certain to end the threat either.

Yes, of course it would be possible (to hit the wrong person) - but highly unlikely.

Okay, we're in the bleachers at a softball game. People are shoulder to shoulder. Someone pulls a gun and starts shooting. She is surrounded by people. Everyone can't magically teleport away, and they're not going to organize and file out in the most efficient manner. They're going to bump into each other and be scrambling and jumping in all directions. It'll be a melee, chaos. That's what you're shooting out of and what you're shooting into. Highly unlikely to hit the wrong person?

Let me ask you... If commissioned peace officers were presented with the same problem - a person reclkessly, or with dangerous intent, discharging a firearm in a public, populated area - What would you expect THEM to do about it?

Ah, now we've hit upon a nub of the argument. Because cops are not only trained on how to shoot, they are much more importantly trained on when and when not to shoot. I wouldn't expect a cop in a situation like that to follow any expectations of mine. I would expect him or her to do exactly what he or she had been trained to do, on the assumption that the people who designed that training know a hell of a lot more than you or I about the risks and responsibilities of such a situation. This is training that hardly any private owners of firearms have, which is one of many reasons I do not trust them to gunsling in situations like this. Also, the police force has requirements for intelligence, mental health, maturity, and judgement, and even a cop who manages to slip in under the radar won't last long if he/she can't meet those standards.

MOST people would expect the cops to shoot the bad guy.

I would hope that most people (most adults) have outgrown the good guy/bad guy way of looking at things. But again, we get our expectations about "most people" from the limited number of people who we talk to on a regular basis, so either or both of us could be wrong here.

[TX-RAT]

106. Prepared for what ifs is fine

Obsessed with is another.

[Oaklander]

112. I'm obsessed with making sure my family is safe.

Do you not take threats against your family seriously? Don't you think that criminals with guns are a serious threat?

[TX-RAT]

121. Of course criminals with guns are a serious threat.

I also see civilians with little or no training caring concealed in public a threat to the general population.

[Oaklander]

124. Agreed.

It's the lack of training that is the real problem, not the gun. A gun, unloaded and locked in a safe, is no threat to anyone. A gun, loaded and holstered on the person of a trained individual is a threat only to those who threaten the wearer. The real problem is UNTRAINED individuals with guns. Untrained in proper use, safety, and security of the weapon. The GUN is not dangerous, it's the untrained gun owner who is dangerous.

[TX-RAT]

133. Now lets try to agree on what is sufficient training.

A 100 question test plus a 1 day class in concealed carry laws then 40 rounds at 15 yards hardly qualifies in my book.
Add minimal of 6 months academy training plus a physiological evaluation and we're getting some where.

[Oaklander]

139. I don't feel qualified to tell you, or anyone else, what qualifies them.

I do believe there should be one nationally accepted standard though. As it is there are too many state regulations. If we are going to claim that the RKBA is a federally guaranteed right we should have a single, federal standard supporting that right.

[TX-RAT]

141. How about we us the same standards that we require for rookie LEOs

[Oaklander]

142. Rookie LEOs in what jurisdiction?

Federal officers? Local police? I'm not arguing, just trying to agree on who decides and what standard.

[TX-RAT]

143. Try State

In TX all peace officer certs are issued by the state, just like concealed carry permits.

[Hrumph]

162. You're confusing a right with a priviledge

.

[Hrumph]

159. All worthless.

First of all... CHL holders are not running around looking for people to arrest. If the cops spent any significant amount of their academy training time on the range, learning how to use their weapons they wouldn't be pissing their pants every year when their qualifications were coming up. AND, we wouldn't see so many accidental shootings by police.

But that's OK, isn't it? We can count on our "trustworthy" judges to find no fault with the cops when they fuck up.

As to the psych evals, they're absolutely worthless. I assume you're talking about the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory test and it's a JOKE.

[Hrumph]

158. And where is the proof to back up this assumption? n/c

.

[CO Liberal]

17. Orange County gun dealer charged with selling assault weapons (CA)

Oh, those wacky gun dealers are at it again! - Wayne

* * * * *

Orange County gun dealer charged with selling assault weapons

The Associated Press

SANTA ANA, Calif. -- An Orange County firearms dealer has been indicted on 55 felony counts of possession and sale of illegal assault weapons, Attorney General Bill Lockyer said Wednesday.

Andy Sun, 48, is a federally licensed firearms dealer who sold guns from a business in Lake Forest but is not certified to sell firearms in California, Lockyer said.

Officials with the state Department of Justice searched Sun's home and business in March, where they found machine guns, assault rifles, assault shotguns, thousands of high-capacity magazines and two grenade launchers.

Sun had advertised the weapons for sale on the Internet, Lockyer said.

<more>

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040526/APN/405261192

[Lamorat]

84. Oh great

Now 'assault shotgun' is another banner term. Don't the anti-freedom people get tired of making up new scary words?

[MrBenchley]

86. Lam-o-rat

[Lamorat]

88. Cute

But so silly. Switzerland and so on have very high rates of gun ownership, without the violence..

I don't care what silly cartoons you paste, my rights are not to be infringed by you.

[MrBenchley]

90. lam-o-rat

[Lamorat]

91. More lame cartoons..

What an effective argument heh..

Get over your phobia.

[MrBenchley]

95. lam-o-rat

[Lamorat]

97. Get over

your phobia and obsession over freedoms.

It's disturbing. Get a hobby. I suggest target shooting, you'll enjoy it.

[MrBenchley]

lam-o-rat

[Lamorat]

102. Well

You've failed the turing test at this point. Unintesting, pathetic cartoons with no content.

Oh well, not like you ever make any valid points or say anything of interest.

[MrBenchley]

114. lam-o-rat

[Lamorat]

116. Nice rifle.

[Oaklander]

129. Rifle? That's a death spewing assault weapon!!!

That thing is probably .50 caliber, or bigger, and can spew flying balls of lead at the rate of 3 or 4 a minute, gunning down helpless school children on the way to the bus stop! You maniac!!

[Oaklander]

99. There is no effective argument against fear.

The fact is, criminals have guns and they always will. No amount of legislation is going to change that. Some people cower in fear of guns, hoping that the government will send the police to their rescue. Others take responsibility for their own safety and the safety of their families. I choose not to rely on others for my safety and that of my family.

Sleep well citizens, help is only a phone call and four minutes away. How much damage could and armed lunatic do in only four minutes?

[Lamorat]

107. The anti-freedom brigade

simply runs on fear and intimidation. They can't stand the thought that there are responsible citizens that don't need a nanny state watching over.

I have tons of guns, carry them with a CHL too most of the time. Big deal. Most likely I'll never need to use one, but if I do it'll be because it saves my life.

Their obsession and phobia is like any other mental illness of its type. Some people fear different things. I fear flying. But I don't particularly have much interest in listing every plane accident and detailing them over and over.

If the anti platform wasn't so dangerous I'd just feel bad for them.

[MrBenchley]

108. But there are plenty of effective ones against dishonesty...

"The fact is, criminals have guns and they always will. No amount of legislation is going to change that."
Especially if we leave the gun show loophole gaping open.

"Some people cower in fear of guns, hoping that the government will send the police to their rescue."
And some people see no reason to let a scummy racist lobbying group set public policy, while the industry they represent arms criminals.

"How much damage could and armed lunatic do in only four minutes?"
<sarcasm>Hey, gang, let's make it easier for them to get assault weapons so we can find out!! And for koresh's sake, don't make them get background checks at the gun show!! Otherwise, I'll never get the chance to gun somebody down and get away with it!!</sarcasm>

Gee, do you suppose a good definition of an "armed lunatic" is someone who feels they have to lug their gun to a softball game at the park? Or to church?

[Lamorat]

111. You have to get a background check

at gun shows!! You just don't have to for private sales. I've bought about 10 guns from a friend whose dad was a gun dealer. Big deal! I didn't need any background check.

You think these criminals are going to use background checks? You don't think the black market will simply explode in your face? Making it harder for ordinary citizens to defend themselves does not help anyone but the criminal.

[MrBenchley]

115. lam-o-rat

[Lamorat]

118. I have a massive gun collection

Lifetime NRA member, support the GOA, and so on. So I guess I'm 'evil'.. hahahah.

Such silly hyperbole from the anti-freedom brigade.

[MrBenchley]

127. lam-o-rat

[Lamorat]

128. Impressive

rebuttals.. Wow.

[MrBenchley]

134. lam-o-rat

[Lamorat]

136. You've given up

even trying.. Good, nice to know that you don't have anything but lame political cartoons to backup your side.

[MrBenchley]

144. lam-o-rat

[Oaklander]

126. What? Criminals DON'T have to buy their guns at gun shows?

I'm shocked! Next you'll tell me that someone can sell a gun to someone else, right out of their living room, with no background check and without the government knowing about it? I'm shocked...shocked I say!!!

[Oaklander]

125. Oh, where to begin?...

Especially if we leave the gun show loophole gaping open.

Close the gun show loophole, I agree. However, criminals already have guns and they'll continue to get them. They'll just have to find other means besides gun shows.

And some people see no reason to let a scummy racist lobbying group set public policy, while the industry they represent arms criminals.

Again, you deflect your failure to provide for your own safety, and your naive reliance on the police, onto some congressional lobby group who have absolutely no bearing on your rights or responsibility. The NRA isn't responsible for your safety, YOU are, only you choose not to accept that responsibility.

Hey, gang, let's make it easier for them to get assault weapons so we can find out!! And for koresh's sake, don't make them get background checks at the gun show!! Otherwise, I'll never get the chance to gun somebody down and get away with it!

It doesn't take an assault weapon gun somebody down, only a little single shot .22 pistol. As for the gun show loophole, I agree with you so why do you keep arguing it with me. I AGREE WITH YOU ON THE GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE!

Gee, do you suppose a good definition of an "armed lunatic" is someone who feels they have to lug their gun to a softball game at the park? Or to church?

No, a good definition of armed lunatic is someone who uses a gun to commit a crime against another person, a person the lunatic is hoping is unarmed and overly dependent on the government for their protection. Someone exactly like you, MrBenchley.

[MrBenchley]

130. With some more childish crap, obviously....

A good definition of an "armed lunatic" is someone who feels they have to lug their gun to a softball game at the park...

[Lamorat]

131. "armed lunatic"

That would describe this person showing the gun around. Someone who wears their CHL properly is no more a lunatic than a cop with their gun...


Period.

[Oaklander]

135. Silly lamorat.

Don't you know that anyone who owns a gun is an armed lunatic? That would include our next President (no denying it, we've all seen the pictures) and at least one California senator (hers is concealed though). I wonder if she knows she is a lunatic because she feels the need to carry a gun for self defense?

[Lamorat]

137. Massachusetts

is a scary place for gun rights. I hope we can avoid that nationally, or else it'll be 'line up and turn them in' time.

[MrBenchley]

138. lam-o-rat

[Oaklander]

140. The best argument you can come up with is a CARTOON!?!?

You seem to devote a lot of your anger at the NRA but very little energy at proposing a solution or taking steps to implement any type of action. Do you have any useful, reasonable, legal ideas to offer, or just some more silly cartoons.

Think about that for a minute...your best argument is a cartoon.

[MrBenchley]

146. You really think anyone at DU should bother with

anyone calling himself lam-o-rat?

"very little energy at proposing a solution or taking steps to implement any type of action."
Gee, that's REALLY fucking funny. Which candidate co-sponsored the current Senate bill to ban assault weapons? Which candidate has pledged to close the gun show loophole?

"Think about that for a minute...your best argument is a cartoon."
Gee, what else is needed to refute this childish "gotta gotta geta gun" horseshit? It's not like it takes much but a big laugh.

[MrBenchley]

71. North Philadelphia Shooting Shuts Down Broad Street

"PHILADELPHIA -- A shooting shut down a portion of Broad Street for a time on Wednesday night, NBC 10 reported.
The victim was shot inside his car at the intersection of Broad and Pike streets in North Philadelphia, authorities said. The car then rolled backwards and crashed into a pole.
The victim got out and collapsed a short distance away."

http://www.nbc10.com/news/3351119/detail.html

[MrBenchley]

92. Lancaster Shooting Sends 2 To Hospital

Good thing they brought guns in case some lunatic wandered by, eh?

"Two people were taken to Lancaster General Hospital after a shooting around 3 p.m. Wednesday.
Witnesses said two groups of men were fighting on East Mifflin Street when some of them pulled out guns and started shooting.
Witnesses said there were children in a car that was parked near the area of the shooting. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/kprc/20040527/lo_wgal/2223129

[MrBenchley]

147. Police Investigate KCK Shooting

"It happened at the Malvern Hill Apartments before 10 p.m. One victim was taken to an area hospital, where he or she underwent surgery shortly after the incident.
At the same time, police were investigating another crime scene on Booth Street, about half a block away from where the shooting occurred. Authorities did not say whether the shooting was related to this other crime. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/kmbc/20040527/lo_kmbc/2223404

[MrBenchley]

148. Officials Search For Men Responsible In Driver Shooting (TX)

"Investigators suspect the convertible involved in a northwest Harris County shooting on the road was the target of an attack that left one man fighting for his life early Wednesday morning, News2Houston reports.
Authorities found a convertible Ford Mustang on fire in a wooded area east of Walters Road near Briarchase around 2 a.m.
Officials said two men in a dark-colored sport utility vehicle fired a gun at Ernesto Espinoza, 32, and Juan Escamilla, 27, as they drove on a northwest Harris County road early Wednesday morning. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040527/lo_kprc/2221955

[MrBenchley]

154. Trooper: Suspect admitted slayings (PA)

"Jason Koehler and James C. Daniels spent Feb. 12 at a friend's Polk Township home drinking beer, riding all-terrain vehicles, shooting at targets and smoking crack.
Twice during the day, Koehler and a friend, Anthony Donohue, drove the ATVs five miles to a home in the Evergreen Lake development and bought $100 worth of crack cocaine from Jason C. Gray.
Gray pulled a gun, so Koehler grabbed a revolver that was in the house and shot and killed Gray, 19, and homeowner Jennifer Cullinan, 41, and shot Cullinan's nephew, Jose Joubert, 29, leaving him nearly blind."

http://www.mcall.com/news/yahoo/all-b1_1twomurdersmay26,0,318746.story?coll=all-aol-yahoo-nws-hed

[MrBenchley]

155. 1 killed, 8 hurt in city shootings (MD)

"A Northeast Baltimore man playing video games with a group of people was shot in the back of the head and killed early yesterday, one of nine shootings during a night of violence in the city.
The victims were shot in four apparently unrelated incidents during a five-hour span that began about 12:20 a.m.
A suspect was charged last night in connection with the homicide, but no arrests were made in the other shootings.
James I. Moore, 46, of the 1600 block of Northwick Road was fatally shot during a triple shooting inside his home."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/yahoo/bal-md.violence26may26,0,4565803.story?coll=bal-newsaol-headlines

[MrBenchley]

160. Body found in parking lot of city elementary school (MD)

"The bound, dead body of a man was found inside a car parked this morning at Lyndhurst Elementary School in West Baltimore, Baltimore City police said.
Lyndhurst faculty members called police about 8:30 a.m. to report a man sleeping in the back of a beat-up, light blue Oldsmobile parked near a trash bin in the school's parking lot, said Agent Donny Moses, a city police spokesman.
Police arrived and discovered the man had died, apparently from a gunshot to the chest."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/crime/bal-body0527,0,767967.story?coll=bal-local-headlines

[MrBenchley]

164. Alleged Dirt Thief Shot By Kenner Police (LA)

"A man who allegedly was stealing landfill from a Kenner park Wednesday was shot by police after he pulled a gun on responding officers, investigators said.
The suspect, Ramon Duron, 55, was in stable condition at Charity Hospital.
Police were called to the corner of Vintage and Loyola streets at about 9:20 a.m. to stop a man who allegedly was shoveling landfill into the back of a pickup truck. Duron allegedly told witnesses that he was angry because someone had stolen the same material from in front of his home. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=378&ncid=378&e=3&u=/ibsys/20040527/lo_wdsu/2222243

[MrBenchley]

168. SWAT Team Discovers Body After Standoff (TX)

"The San Antonio Police Department SWAT team found the body of a man in a Balcones Heights apartment unit Thursday after he held police at bay for four hours.
San Antonio police said the standoff began shortly after a woman, described as a girlfriend of the victim, flagged down Balcones Heights police for help. She told police her boyfriend was in an apartment unit in the 3200 block of Hillcrest threatening to commit suicide with a shotgun. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=391&ncid=391&e=3&u=/kcra/20040527/lo_ksat/2224461

[MrBenchley]

169. Childhood Friend Killer Gets 75 Years (TX)

A man was sentenced to 75 years in prison Wednesday for the fatal shooting of his childhood friend.
Eric Quesada faced a maximum of 99 years in prison for the murder of Michael Newhouse in 1998.
Trial testimony showed that Quesada opened fire from a car to a vehicle Newhouse and three other men were riding in on Interstate 35. Newhouse died at the scene and two other men were wounded. One of them was left paralyzed, which Quesada received a 50-year prison term. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=391&ncid=391&e=1&u=/kcra/20040527/lo_ksat/2224590

[MrBenchley]

174. 1 Injured In Fitchburg Shooting (WI)

"Fitchburg police are investigating a midday shooting on Red Arrow Trail.
Two people were talking, when shots were fired just before 11 a.m.
"This wasn't a random act at this point," said Chief Tom Blatter. "We're piecing the puzzle together that it was individuals that knew each other and something went wrong." "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040527/lo_wisc/2224772

[MrBenchley]

178. 14-year-old innocent bystander dies from gunshot wound (TN)

"A 14-year-old girl died this morning from a gunshot wound to the neck she suffered Tuesday night, when gunfire rang out following a fight in east Nashville.
Anisha Burden was a bystander when shots were fired outside 921 N. Fifth St. about 10 p.m. Tuesday.
Police obtained an aggravated arrest warrant that charged Antoinette Hall with shooting Anisha, and that warrant is being upgraded to criminal homicide, police said in a statement.
Hall, who was last known to have lived in the 1000 block of Meridian Street, remains at large."

http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/04/05/51977965.shtml?Element_ID=51977965