GUNS IN THE NEWS - June 4, 2004

[CO Liberal]

Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:

1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.

2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.

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4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.

5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.

6 - The person adding a news story to the "GITN" thread is allowed (and encouraged) to comment on that story, indicating their position on the topic being discussed. These comments can appear either at the beginning or end of the post; if possible, place comments in a different typeface so readers can separate the comments from the story. Others who wish to comment on a posted story can do so by replying to that story; this allows other readers to follow the comments by scrolling through the subthread.

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8 - If you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.

[CO Liberal]

1. Virginia Beach Police Seek Suspects in Thursday Night Shooting Death

Another day, another gun death - one of many. - Wayne

* * * * *

Virginia Beach Police Seek Suspects in Thursday Night Shooting Death


(AP) - Virginia Beach are looking for suspects in a Thursday night shooting that left a 38-year old man dead.

The shooting happened around 11:50pm in the 1200 block of Glyndon Drive. Officers discovered the body of a man lying on the front porch of a home. He was pronounced dead after suffering from gunshot wounds.

Spokesman Don Rimer says police are withholding the victim's name until his family is notified.

<more>

http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=1917801&nav=23iiNegK

[CO Liberal]

2. Bond denied in shooting death (AL)

The law-abiding hun owners we don't have to worry about strike again!!! - Wayne

* * * * *

Bond denied in shooting death

Friday, June 04, 2004
Staff Report

A Mobile County judge on Thursday denied bond for Tiawago Pettaway, accused of killing 76-year-old Louis White on Wednesday with several shots from a large caliber handgun.

White, a mechanic, was killed, according to police, as he lay stretched out and working under a car in a backyard car repair shop in Theodore.

Pettaway, 28, whom family members described as mentally ill, ran into some woods after the Chatman Road shooting and was arrested about 30 minutes later on murder and other charges, including possession of crack cocaine, officials said.

<more>

http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/1086340691227130.xml

[CO Liberal]

3. Penn Hills youth charged in shooting death of girl was awaiting trial (PA)

Wonder if this guy had a youth membership in the NRA.... - Waynd

* * * * *

Penn Hills youth charged in shooting death of girl was awaiting trial

Teen was confined to home

Friday, June 04, 2004

By Barbara White Stack and Jonathan D. Silver, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Brandon Robinson, the 16-year-old Penn Hills youth charged this week with criminal homicide in the death of a 14-year-old girl, was under house arrest awaiting trial in juvenile court on an earlier case.

While on house arrest and being supervised by a parent as Robinson was, a juvenile is supposed to remain in the house unless going to an activity like school, work or church or leaving with a parent.

Police say Robinson was in Lincoln-Lemington Monday afternoon in a car with a man, Eugene Cooper, 20, of either West Mifflin or Lincoln-Lemington, when shots were fired into a car in which Karis Adams, 14, of Penn Hills, was riding with friends. She died of wounds to the head.

Robinson had been under house arrest since Dec. 23. He had been charged as an adult in June 2003, with robbery and criminal conspiracy.

<more>

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04156/326820.stm

[CO Liberal]

4. Hillsboro police seek suspect in fatal shooting (OR)

It will be interesting to see how this convicted felon got hold of his gun, especially if it turns out he bought it from a dealer. - Wayne

* * * * *

Hillsboro police seek suspect in fatal shooting

James Randall Eckert, 35, was seen leaving a home where a man was found shot to death

Friday, June 04, 2004
JOHN SNELL

HILLSBORO -- Hillsboro police on Thursday were looking for an armed career criminal as a suspect in the shooting death of Dennis M. Steffen.

Police said James Randall Eckert, 35, was seen with a handgun fleeing Steffen's home in the 240 block of Southeast 28th Avenue, where the shooting took place. Hillsboro police Lt. Kerry Aleshire said Eckert was driving a red Pontiac Grand Am with tinted windows.

Aleshire said Eckert has an extensive arrest record going back to 1997 that includes charges of car theft, giving false information to a police officer and being a convicted felon in possession of a firearm.

Steffen, 41, was killed late Tuesday by a single gunshot to the chest. His body was found in an upstairs bedroom of his home, a few minutes after police were called to the house.

<more>

http://www.oregonlive.com/metrowest/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/metro_west_news/1086350491285980.xml

[CO Liberal]

5. Detroit shooting spree deaths climb

And just imagine how commonplace these incidents will be once the AWB is lifted and assault weapons become easier to get. - Wayne

* * * * *

Detroit shooting spree deaths climb

The Associated Press
6/4/2004, 6:20 a.m. ET

DETROIT (AP) — Homicide is on the rise in the city, in part because of what police call a new gangster mentality, where gunmen spray bullets with high-powered weapons in order to take more than one victim during a single shooting spree.

The shooters kill more than one person in an effort to eliminate witnesses or to send messages of dominance. It's the latest trend in one of America's most violent cities, according to police, national experts and a statistical analysis of homicide statistics.

There were about 60 multiple-victim shootings in Detroit through May 31 of this year. In 17 of those cases, more than one person died, compared with seven such deaths at this time last year.

And the practice of shooting up homes, cars and yards is catching children in the cross fire, contributing to child homicides, the Detroit Free Press reported in a Friday story.

<more>

http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/michigan/index.ssf?/base/news-15/1086344947217100.xml

[Romulus]

6. I'm not holding my breath

If these get banned:





People will simply use these:






Two classes of firearms that fire the exact same cartridges in the exact same ways.

[CO Liberal]

8. I Don't See The Country Getting Any Safer...

...by lifting the ban.

[slackmaster]

7. In order to believe...

And just imagine how commonplace these incidents will be once the AWB is lifted and assault weapons become easier to get.

...You have to believe that a pre-ban semiautomatic AK clone with a bayonet lug is more dangerous (as a firearm; pig-sticker potential notwithstanding) than an otherwise identical post-ban semiautomatic AK clone without a bayonet lug.

I respect your right to believe anything you want, but remain completely unconvinced of its applicability to the real world.

[CO Liberal]

9. I Hope I'm Never in a Position...

...to say "I told you so" after the ban is lifted.

[slackmaster]

10. And I sincerely hope that I am in that position

But the absence of data that shows an increase in gun-related crimes attributable to the new proliferation of presently banned features will never be newsworthy. I predict my Cassandra complex will remain intact. If in September 2005 I post "See, I told you expiration of the AWB would make no difference!" it will generate negligable replies at best. Any crimes that are committed with semiautomatic firearms will continue to be used as fodder for "We must ban AWs" propaganda from those who now pin such grand hopes on the present AWB, regardless of their configuration.

The law by any rational measure has utterly failed to achieve its objectives. The people crying most loudly for it seem oblivious to the fact that post-ban versions of every one of the "banned" weapons have been available since the day the ban took effect.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FatSlob]

11. Judge: guns may be excluded from courtrooms, but not courthouses

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/04156/326819.stm

[CO Liberal]

12. This Does Not Hold True In Other States:

From the web page of the Mendocino County (CA) Courthouse:

Objects that will not be allowed include: alcohol, bullets, can openers, chains over 12", corkscrews, drugs, flammable liquids, forks, guns, guns (replica), handcuffs, handcuff keys, knitting needles, pocket knives, fixed blade knives, kubatons, leathermans, laser pointers, mace, drug paraphernalia, pepper spray, pointed devices (e.g. metal nail files), punch knives, razor blades, large safety pins, scimitar, scissors, screwdrivers, stun guns, tools. These objects are all considered weapons.

http://www.mendocino.courts.ca.gov/security.html

[FeebMaster]

13. It's good that they specifically decided to ban scimitars.

Are other swords banned as well? Can I strap a smallsword or rapier to my hip and walk into court?

[CO Liberal]

14. Those are Probably Considered "Pointed Devices"

And also banned....

[FeebMaster]

15. Good point.

I also like how they banned "tools" in general.

[CO Liberal]

16. Was That Pun Intentional, Feeb???

:-)

[FeebMaster]

19. No. But it's a good one.

Or a bad one.

[TX-RAT]

17. Sure can

They will look great with the cuffs you'll be wearing on the way out.

[FeebMaster]

18. I hope they wrote in an exception for

government employees with the handcuff and handcuff key ban.

[CO Liberal]

20. I Was Wondering About That. Too

:shrug:

[TX-RAT]

21. Ever see a Bailiff with out cuffs.

[CO Liberal]

22. The Only Courts I've Been In...

...were traffic court and divorce court. And I don't remember seeing anyone with cuffs in either.

:-)

[TX-RAT]

24. In county court here

The bailiff always had cuffs and pepper spray, but was not allowed to bring in a fire arm. I've had people try to escape while in court. I've had them make a run at me. I've had them make a run at each other.

[FeebMaster]

23. It's not like it matters really.

Who is going to throw them out/confiscate them/arrest them?

[TX-RAT]

25. If they're not authorized to have them, I would.

[FeebMaster]

27. That's the whole point of making an exception

for government employees. Who is going to take them from you if you aren't authorized to have them?

[TX-RAT]

29. What makes you think I'm not authorized to have them.

[FeebMaster]

30. Maybe you should read the whole subthread. (nt)

[TX-RAT]

31. Maybe you should quit chasing your tail.

The mere fact that someone can do something that your not authorized to do really ticks you off.

[FeebMaster]

32. Chasing my tail?

"Maybe you should quit chasing your tail. The mere fact that someone can do something that your not authorized to do really ticks you off."


What are you talking about now?

[library_max]

33. TX-RAT is a peace officer, I believe.

And is probably objecting to the apparent premise of "Who is going to take them from you if you aren't authorized to have them?" However, I suspect that you meant, "Who is going to take them from a person who isn't authorized to have them unless someone is authorized to have them?"

Does that help?

[FeebMaster]

34. Well had you fellows read the subthread

you would have seen my post that said, "I hope they wrote in an exception for government employees with the handcuff and handcuff key ban."

The CO Liberal said, "I Was Wondering About That. Too"

Then I said, "It's not like it matters really. Who is going to throw them out/confiscate them/arrest them?"

Then TX-RAT said, "If they're not authorized to have them, I would."

Then I said, "That's the whole point of making an exception for government employees. Who is going to take them from you if you aren't authorized to have them?"

Then TX-RAT said, "What makes you think I'm not authorized to have them."

Then I said, "Maybe you should read the whole subthread."

I would repeat that advise, but assuming you've read this post, you've more or less read this subthread.

[TX-RAT]

35. Sorry had to run a couple of deer out of my garden

Telling me what sub thread you were talking about would have helped. I apologize, I just assumed this was just going to be another attack on me or law enforcement. Your answer is yes there are exceptions.
My apologies.

[Columbia]

40. To make it easier for all

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

[library_max]

28. Seems reasonable to assume that cuffs and SI weaponry for bailiffs, etc.

are kept inside the courthouse and don't need to be brought in from outside.

[NorthernSpy]

36. Armed Man in Bulldozer Goes on Rampage (Granby, CO)

(added link)


GRANBY, Colo. - A man barricaded inside a fortified bulldozer went on a rampage Friday, firing shots and knocking down buildings as he plowed through the streets, witnesses said.



It was not immediately known whether anyone had been injured.


"He's got gun turrets," witness Scott Schaffer told KUSA-TV. Another resident, Judy Craig, told the station she heard heavy damage was done to the town library and city hall.



A fruitcake in an armored bulldozer, waging war on the entire town. What next?

How the hell are they supposed to stop this loon?


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040604/ap_on_fe_st/bulldozer_rampage_2


Mary

[FeebMaster]

37. If RPGs weren't so hard to come by

this sort of thing wouldn't be a problem.

[TexasMexican]

38. When bulldozers are outlawed...

only outlaws will have bulldozers.

[NorthernSpy]

39. I am I r o n M a n!

Nobody wants him,
They just turn their heads

Nobody helps him
So he waits his revenge

Now the time is here
For iron man to spread Fear!
Vengeance from the grave
Kills the people he once saved

Nobody wants him
They just turn their heads
Nobody helps him
Now he has his revenge!



According to http://www.thenewmexicochannel.com/news/3383738/detail.html ,
the guy turned a D5 Caterpillar bulldozer into a homemade tank, and he armed it with what may be a "50 calibre machine gun":


The massive, heavily modified D-5 Caterpillar was finally stopped around 4:40 p.m. and law enforcement officers were climbing over it, assessing the situation and trying to get inside. It was reported that the driver was killed, but that has not been confirmed.

Jim Hulahan, the emergency manager for the town, said that there has been no contact with the person inside and it is very quiet inside the vehicle. He said officers are trying to find a way to break into the bulldozer, which apparently has been welded shut from the inside with heavy steel and concrete.

"There's no way out or into that vehicle," Hulahan told Denver television station KMGH.


I dunno. Maybe he ran out of air. Or wound up parked in full sun and started to bake alive in his completely sealed, steel-plated death machine.

They think this Marvin Heemeyer spent months at his shop -- lovingly welding every seam of his masterpiece, and counting the days til he would put his final plan into action.


Mary