Some Information About Registering Domain Names (long post)

[CO Liberal]

In another now-locked thread, people questioned my asking about the identity of the owner of the "Liberals With Guns" site, and said that there was nothing wrong with using false information to register a web site or domain name. Well, I went to www.register.com (where that site was registered) and found the following information in their Services Agreement (http://www.register.com/service-agreement.cgi#9). Underlining emphasis is mine. - Wayne


1. Domain Name Registration, Administration and Renewal Services

<snip>

d. Your Representations

By applying to register a domain name, or by asking us to maintain or renew a domain name registration, you hereby represent and warrant to us that (a) the statements that you made in connection with such registration, maintenance, or renewal are complete and accurate, and your contact information will be kept current; (b) the registration of the domain name will not infringe upon or otherwise violate the rights of any third party; (c) you are not registering the domain name for an unlawful purpose; and (d) you will not use the domain name in violation of any applicable laws or regulations or Register.com's rules or policies. You agree and acknowledge that it is your responsibility to determine whether your domain name registration or use infringes or violates someone else's rights, including, but not limited to, whether any foreign language translations of your domain name, either between roman-alphabet languages, between non-roman alphabet languages, or between roman-alphabet and non-roman alphabet languages, infringe or violate someone else's rights.

<snip>

10. Information and Its Use

You hereby acknowledge and agree that, in connection with your use of certain of Register.com's services, you are required to provide certain information and to update promptly this information as needed to keep it current, complete and accurate.

In addition to such other information that Register.com may require you to provide in order to obtain the Services, Register.com requires that you submit the following information in connection with domain name registration, administration and renewal services.

a. Domain Name Registration, Administration and Renewal Services

The information you are obligated to provide and keep current in connection with your use of Register.com's domain name registration, administration, and renewal services is the following:

i. Your full name (or the name of the entity and authorized contact person, if registration is for an organization, corporation or association), postal address, email address, voice telephone number, and fax number, where available;

ii. The domain name being registered; and

iii. The name, postal address, email address, voice telephone number, and where available, fax number for the administrative contact, technical contact and billing contact for the domain name registration.

You acknowledge and agree that when you renew a domain name registration, the type of information you are required to provide may have changed. If you do not wish to provide the new required information, the registration may not be renewed, in Register.com's sole discretion.

<snip>

c. Accurate Data

In the event that (i) in applying for Service(s) or the registration of a domain name you are providing information about a third party, or (ii) you license a domain name registered in your name to a third party, you hereby represent and warrant that you have (a) provided notice to that third party of the disclosure and use of that party's information as set forth in this Agreement, and (b) obtained that third party's express consent to the disclosure and use of that party's information as set forth in this Agreement.

You acknowledge and agree that willfully providing inaccurate or unreliable information or willfully failing to update information promptly will constitute a material breach of this Agreement that will be a sufficient basis for cancellation of your domain name registration or Service(s), in our sole discretion. You further acknowledge and agree that your failure to respond for over fifteen (15) calendar days to an inquiry by Register.com concerning the accuracy of contact details associated with your domain name registration shall constitute a material breach of this Agreement and will be a sufficient basis for cancellation of your domain name registration.

* * * * *

So in other words, it looks like I was right and you guys were wrong. And if that site gets taken down, the site owner only has himself to blame. - Wayne

[ret5hd]

1. boy, i guess you showed them.

[MrBenchley]

2. You will notice the REAL "Socialist Alternative" group

whose Seattle phone number he stole uh... borrowed wasn't at all shy about giving contact information in public...

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

7. Hey, after bogus crap from the RKBA crowd day in and day out

who is really surprised that this site turned out to be phony?

[T Town Jake]

4. And what a hero you are indeed! BTW...

...exactly when are you going to make all of us out here on the Internet privy to your exact legal name, home address, & phone number, again? I missed that, somehow, in all that high-falutin' talk about how this fellow whose website you dislike must have had "something to hide" and deserves NO privacy whatsoever for having the effrontery to type a few words out on the old World Wide Web... It's just an oversight on your part, I'm sure...<snicker>

[CO Liberal]

5. I'm Not Running a Web Site.....

...pretending to be a legitimate organization.

According to the Service Agreement he agreed to in order to register his site, he broke the rules. What part of that are you having trouble with?

:ahrug:

[T Town Jake]

6. Yeah...trot it out again...

...(paraphrasing the inane excuses offered so far by you) I can't be held to the same standards I hold others too because...I don't have a website! And my wife told me not too in any event...or something...and that's different! And...... <snicker>...

[CO Liberal]

11. There is No Requirement Here At DU....

...for anyone to provide their real name, real address, and real telephone number. However, there IS a requirement for that information as a condition for registering a web site at www.register.com.

THAT is the difference.

[MrBenchley]

8. I suspect he's having trouble with

yet another gun group publicly shown to be bogus....

[CO Liberal]

13. It's Truly Amazing....

...the extent that some pro-gunners will go to to stand up for another pro-gunner. Even when the second pro-gunner is totally in the wrong.

[MrBenchley]

9. Yeah. He IS a hero...

unlike those trying to prop up this dishonest crap.

[CO Liberal]

10. Thanks, Bench

At least there's ONE other intellectually honest person on this board....

[MrBenchley]

12. You know, if the cause wasn't rotten from stem to stern

they wouldn't have to rely on bogus groups with fake addresses and the like...

[CO Liberal]

14. Guess They Can't HANDLE The Truth.....

[T Town Jake]

16. Gee...JUST ONE?....<snicker>...

...it's almost like Gideon in the Old Testament circa 2004, down at the creek, with his few brave, hand-picked men ready to take on the RKBA hordes...(/Sarcasm)

Since WHEN, pray tell, is it "brave" and/or "intellectually honest" to hold OTHERS to standards you yourself are unwilling to abide by? I'll tell you since when - Since Never, at least in the real world. Go cry about your own embrace of blatant double standards elsewhere, please. It is, to borrow a phrase, quite a pantload...of CRAP.

[CO Liberal]

17. YOU'RE The One Cying "Double Standard"....

...which in this case is pure bullshit.

I repeat - NO ONE HERE AT DU is required to provide full and accurate contact information. ANYONE WHO REGISTERS A DOMAIN NAME at WWW.REGISTER.COM is REQUIRED to provide that information.

What part of that is unclear to you????

:shrug:

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CO Liberal]

21. You Appear to Have a Problem With Following Rules

As to many other pro-gunners. So why should the rest of us expect you to follow the rules that apply to the use of guns?

:shrug:

[T Town Jake]

26. I do? Well, gee, this is the first...

I've heard of it...but thanks for your touching concern vis-a-vi me and other "pro-gunners"...what "RULES" would those be, BTW? <snicker>...
If I weren't so amused at your transparent attempts to change the subject away from a matter that has obviously become rather unpleasant for you to continue to discuss, I'd ask:
:wtf:

But, actually, I don't really care, and wish, in any event, to stick to the original topic. Tell us again, please, why what's good for the goose is not good for the gander in this regard? Elaborate on that line of reasoning for me just one more time, for my belly's sake - which is still quivering from the shivers of laughter sent through it the last time you tried to slither away from your own oft-stated "standards" of full disclosure of personal information on the internet...

[CO Liberal]

28. Please Re-Read My Post #11....

And read it slow, so you can understand every word.

[T Town Jake]

35. "Post #11"...???

...I fail to see what that has to do with either me, or the issue on the table - which is YOUR blatant double standards. But I well understand the desire to shift the conversation away from the uncomfortable truth that you are hypocritical in your stances as regards the issue of "privacy." You don't like it for those with whom you disagree - but demand it on your own behalf as, well, kinda of a "right." Imagine that - a "right to privacy." For some, at least...<snicker>....

[CO Liberal]

36. The Only Double Standard I See....

...is that some pro-gunners seem to feel that other pro-gunners are justified in breaking an agreement they agreed to adhere to as a condition of registering their web site. What ELSE are you willing to let another pro-gunner get away with???

[iverglas]

37. fell fowl

Geese are very fell fowl.

Tell us again, please, why what's good for the goose is not good for the gander in this regard?

I can't quite do that ... but I'll summarize what I said in my other post and relate it to your question.

Goose:
an individual who wishes to have a website, and wishes it to have the credibility and legitimacy that the surfing public tends to ascribe to an autonomous domain name (as compared to a site hosted at, say, Angelfire, or a blog) -- but chooses not to provide the very information on which that credibility and legitimacy are implicitly based: his/her identity.

Gander:
an individual who participates on an internet discussion forum where anonymity is the rule and identification the very rare exception, and where everyone's credibility/legitimacy stands or falls on his/her own words, and not on any underlying consideration given for it -- and who is in fact engaged in a discussion with just such another individual. Talk about yer pots and kettles.

So what I'm seeing here isn't geese and ganders. You can probably guess what I'm seeing here.




Here Malice, Rapine, Accident, conspire,
And now a Rabble Rages, now a Fire;
Their Ambush here relentless Ruffians lay,
And here the fell Attorney prowls for Prey;
Here falling Houses thunder on your Head,
And here a female Atheist talks you dead.
- Dr. Johnson, "On the Gun Dungeon"

[iverglas]

63. and bugs

[FatSlob]

20. That was the funniest thing I've ever read on DU.

[CO Liberal]

22. We're Talking About Following Rules Here, FS

It's obvious that the guy who registered the www.liberalswithguns.com site did not follow the rules he agreed to as a condition of registering his site through www.register.com. And yet so many pro-gunners keep coming up with lame excuse after lame excuse for this guy.

That's what I'm referring to by being intellectually honest. Far too many pro-gunners here seem to be missing the mark.

[FatSlob]

23. I was talking about your "intellectually honest" line.

Funniest thing ever. I find you to mostly be intellectually honest. Nobody is ever 100% though, not even me!:D

[CO Liberal]

24. And Virtually No One....

...is being intellectually honest about someone not following guidelines that they AGREED TO FOLLOW as a condition of registering their web site.

[FatSlob]

25. I bet you have a point, I've only perused the thread.

I'm really unconcerned about it.

[CO Liberal]

27. My Point (And I DO Have One)...

(apologies to Ellen Degeneres)

...is that you are REQUIRED to provide contact information when registering a web site. If you fail to do so (or provide false information), your site may be terminated.

Those who were going to great lengths to justify the actions of another who provided bogus information when registering his web site were sadly mistaken.

[FatSlob]

29. If he wanted to hide his ID,

he could have done it other ways. It isn't hard. Maybe a LLC. Really, I don't think it matters too much. After all, he was probably only trying to keep those who disagreed with him from finding his personal information and harassing him.

[TX-RAT]

15. Looks like somebody put in some overtime

Nice.
If people would just be truthful, this wouldn't be necessary.

[CO Liberal]

18. I Was Just Trying to Get to The Bottom Of This

Some people on that other thread were maintaining that there was no problem with providing false information when registering a web site - that it was a common occurrence. I believe I have shown that they were all sadly mistaken.

[iverglas]

31. isn't curiosity wonderful?

It's amazing what one can learn when one has a bit of it.

If my dim understanding is correct (me not having been curious, so not having investigated), there are all kinds of places on the net where one can put up "anonymous" websites. Or vanity websites, some might say. Whatever -- regardless of what one's reasons, and including the desire for privacy and security, they're there.

Making the conscious and deliberate choice to put up a non-anonymous, autonomous website and then listing false information for it says something.

What it says to me is that the person who did it wanted to acquire the aura of legitimacy and credibility that doesn't attach to people who have sites at blog places, or Angelfire or the like. That's just my perception, of course, but I can't think of another reason offhand. Except maybe that it's easier to attract visitors to an autonomous website, through search engines or the more memorable nature of the url.

So what it looks like to me is that someone wanted that aura and those benefits, but decided not to do the very thing that is the consideration given for acquiring them: identify himself. *That* is what gives websites and their owners credibility and legitimacy in the public eye. And acquiring the credibility and legitimacy without providing the counterpart for it -- identity -- might be called, well, sneaky.

[CO Liberal]

32. And ANOTHER Intellectually Honest Person!!!

Thanks for getting the point, iverglas!!!

:hi:

[Romulus]

30. sooo . . .

If I give a fake zip code/phone number to those annoying retail cashiers who demand one before ringing up my purchase, as long as I pay for the purchase, am I wrong?

How about when I use a fake name when I call in a take-out Chinese food order? As long as I show up to pay for the food, what's the harm?:shrug:

If this guy is paying for his bandwidth, who cares what name he uses to register his website? He's got to get on the internet somehow, and last time I checked, the service wasn't free. If the ISP doesn't like his website they can yank it.

Are people with unlisted phone numbers (like me) "wrong," even though we have take calls? :shrug:

[MrBenchley]

33. Wow...

So many irrelevant questions to dodge the FACT that this yobbo lied and that his "group" turns out to be bogus.

"He's got to get on the internet somehow"
Why? It's not like the web is faced with a shortage of dishonest crap from the trigger happy....or that he had anything to say worth the hearing.

[CO Liberal]

34. One More Time....

Using a few excerpts from the www.register.com Services Agreement, as referenced in my original message:

By applying to register a domain name, or by asking us to maintain or renew a domain name registration, you hereby represent and warrant to us that (a) the statements that you made in connection with such registration, maintenance, or renewal are complete and accurate, and your contact information will be kept current;

You acknowledge and agree that willfully providing inaccurate or unreliable information or willfully failing to update information promptly will constitute a material breach of this Agreement that will be a sufficient basis for cancellation of your domain name registration or Service(s), in our sole discretion.

As usual, Romulus, you and other pro-gunners are using coutless "apples-and-oranges" arguments to justify the actions of another pro-gunner.

[Romulus]

38. what's the big deal again?

from your quote:

You acknowledge and agree that willfully providing inaccurate or unreliable information or willfully failing to update information promptly will constitute a material breach of this Agreement that will be a sufficient basis for cancellation of your domain name registration or Service(s), in our sole discretion.


They're saying to anyone who registers that fake registrations will be a gamble. So, they can use their "discretion" to yank the website or not.

God forbid someone actually read the terms of an agreement they enter into. Whoever this guy is has followed the rules - he's gambled and given registration info that may result in his website getting yanked at the discretion of the ISP/whatever.

Since you informed the ISP/whatever of the defective registration, we will just have to see what they decide to do.

[CO Liberal]

39. I Disagree

He did NOT follow the rules. And since he was not honest when making his site registration, how can anything on his web site be trusted?

:shrug:

[MrBenchley]

40. Yeah, who cares that another pro gun group is bogus?

It's not like that's any sort of surprise any more.....

"Whoever this guy is has followed the rules."
By breaking them? That IS rich.

[CO Liberal]

41. I Guess The Moral Is.....

....rules are meant to be broken if you're a pro-gunner.

[MrBenchley]

47. It's GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS!!!!!!!

Who cares what the Constitution really says? Who cares what the courts say? Who cares what the laws say? Who cares what sort of people the gun lobby elect? Who cares what other wretched things those people do? Who cares what the rules really are? Who cares what history really says? Who cares what other people want? It's GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS!!!!!!!

ad nauseam....

[OpSomBlood]

42. Aren't you a righteous crusader?

Cut the crap. You looked up the WHOIS on liberalswithguns so that you could aquire the personal contact information for the webmaster. When you discovered that he had posted false information in order to keep himself anonymous, you tattled to register.com in an attempt to a) get the site shut down or b) find out his information in order to harrass him.

Save the righteous do-gooder routine for someone who's buying it.

[CO Liberal]

43. Wrong, Wrong, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!

I never had any intention of contacting that person to harrass him.

You have an hour to delete that libelous post, OpSomBlood, or I'll ask the mods to delete it for you.

[OpSomBlood]

46. What useful purpose does his personal contact information serve?

Yeah, I'm going to look up the name, address and phone number of someone I dislike and disagree with just for the sake of doing so.

There was no legitimate purpose to look up the WHOIS information. The website in questions provides a "Contact Me" link if you really had a burning urge to ask the guy a question. You made the conscious decision to dig deeper...and it is evident that you did not do it with wholesome intentions.

Why don't we let the rest of the people here decide if I'm "libelous" before you go tattling to the mods. Although recently it certainly seems to fit your M.O.

[CO Liberal]

49. For The Record....

Yeah, I'm going to look up the name, address and phone number of someone I dislike and disagree with just for the sake of doing so.

Actually, I did it to see if the site was legit - based on the contact information, it's obvious that is isn't.


There was no legitimate purpose to look up the WHOIS information.

Yes, there was - to see if this was a legitinate web site.


The website in questions provides a "Contact Me" link if you really had a burning urge to ask the guy a question.

There was no need for me to ask him a question - the site registration information told me everything I needed to know.


You made the conscious decision to dig deeper...and it is evident that you did not do it with wholesome intentions.

I did it to find the truth. It looks like a few pro-gunners on this site are uncomfortable with people seeking the truth.

[OpSomBlood]

53. The WHOIS is not an indicator of a site's "legitimacy"

It is merely a registration of contact information for the person who owns the site. What were you expecting, the address of the "Liberals With Guns" office buildings and the phone number of the "Liberals With Guns" switchboard? Give us a break.

But I've provided Van23 with a link to a service that allows him to register through a proxy in order to protect his privacy from prying eyes.

[CO Liberal]

55. But It Does Provide an Indication....

...of whether someone is trying to hide something.

For example, it's safe to assume that there are people out there who have more than a few bones to pick with the owners of DU. Yet when you do a WHOIS search on DU, you find actual names, addesses and phone numbers.

Hmmmmm......

[FatSlob]

72. Wasn't libelous at all.

I note that you didn't deny trying to shut the site down. Since you didn't deny it, then may I assume that is your intention?

[CO Liberal]

73. It Was Totally Libelous

You nopenly stated that I did to WHOIS search for the expressed purpose of harassing the owner of that site. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Face it, FS - you libeled me.

[MrBenchley]

48. Yeah, he is...

and lo and behold, the same people who post bogus right wing crap and attack Democrats don't like it.

[OpSomBlood]

62. Not to worry, it's an easily solved problem.

CO Liberal's attempt to get the website shut down is actually pretty amateur. Sorry to disappoint.

[MrBenchley]

66. Who's disappointed?

You mean you think I was surprised that this turned out to be a bogus group?

It's the RKBA...what about it isn'tbogus?

[OpSomBlood]

68. Show me where that site claims to be an organization.

Save the effort. It doesn't.

[MrBenchley]

70. Who the hell are you trying to kid?

What was the name of the "group" again?

[FeebMaster]

44. Have you decided to tell everyone your

full name, address, and phone number yet?

[CO Liberal]

45. Read My Post #11

[T Town Jake]

50. That's pretty much...

...what I figured.."READ POST #11" :eyes: I guess that explains it all, eh? <snicker>....

[FeebMaster]

56. I did.

So are you planning on telling us your full name, address, and phone number any time soon?

[CO Liberal]

58. No

It's not required here at DU.

However, it IS required from anyone who wants to register a web site through www.register.com.

[OpSomBlood]

51. Attention Van23:

Visit this site:

www.domainsbyproxy.com

to sign up for an inexpensive service that keeps your website WHOIS registry legitimate, yet protects your privacy and anonymity from those who don't choose to respect it.

[CO Liberal]

52. He May Have To

Depending on what happens after www.register.com finishes investigating my inquiry.

[OpSomBlood]

54. I certainly hope he does, so you can find another hobby besides tattling.

n/t

[CO Liberal]

57. I'm Not Tattling

I'm looking for the truth.

[OpSomBlood]

60. And when you didn't find "the truth" you tattled.

Your revisionist interpretations don't change the facts. You found a site you didn't agree with, you attempted to acquire the personal contact information for the person who owns it, and when you couldn't get it you tattled to his domain registrar.

It's tattling. Deal with it.

[MrBenchley]

59. Wonder if there's a site he can visit

that will give him a real group and some website content that isn't stale crap?

[OpSomBlood]

61. Maybe you can take some initiative and start your own website.

Since you have such an important message that you want thousands of people to hear. I'm sure people are going to jam your servers hoping to find out the latest variation of the phrase "right-wing horseshit" you've developed.

[MrBenchley]

64. No, I'm happy with the VPC and the Brady Center...

neither of which has to put up a fake address and phone number.....

[OpSomBlood]

65. Yeah, they save the creativity for their statistics.

Because everyone knows that semi-automatic "bullet hoses" called out in the AWB fire as long as you hold down the trigger. And that .500 large-game hunting revolvers were specifically designed to penetrate body armor.

That kind of stuff is common knowledge.

[MrBenchley]

67. No, they're honest people

unlike the RKBA crowd...vainly trying to justify yet another bogus "group"....

[OpSomBlood]

69. It takes a special breed to consider "bullet hose" and "vest buster"...

...to be "honest."

[MrBenchley]

71. Yup...it's called honesty.

It takes a special kind of person to pimp for assault weapons and the like, too.

[Wickerman]

74. locking up

This thread seems to have served its person and is on the border of questionable since it is a continuation from a previously locked thread. Any posts from here on out would only add to the flames.