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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:42 PM
Original message
A Public Apology
In the thread that was just locked, I accused someone of libeling me when it was another DU-er who made the comments that I considered libelous.

I wish to offer my apologies to the person who I erroneously accused of libeling me; I was jumping from program to program (since I'm logged on at work), and lost track of who I was talking with.

The person to whom I'm offering this apology knows who I'm talking about, because he just PM'ed me. IMHO, it would serve no useful purpose to mention him or the other DU-er by name at this time.

Wayne
(CO Liberal)
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Salmo Trutta Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, at least this isn't a public apology to the NRA!
LOL

Way to stand up and apologize (for whatever you did). Shows character.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Another round of Kudos for CO for acting like a mature adult
:toast:
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thanks, Slack
There are time when ya gotta do the right thing. This was one of thiose times.
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Liberal Classic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. I don't even know what this is about but
I know it takes guts to admit when you're wrong.

It's easy to forget there's actual people on the other side of the computer. For some reason, maybe the lack of any real world consequences, double-blind anonymity seems to bring out the best or the worst in people. We can only be judged by the words we write, and if more of us could find it in our hearts to dothings like this J/PS would be a better place to hang out.

Please let me thank you for showing the quality of your character.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. No - Thank YOU!!!
:-)
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JayS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. A perfect example of...
...an improperly aimed post hitting an innocent bystander. :) :) :)
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That Pretty Much Sums It Up, Jay
Hence, the apology.
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. No need for secrecy, I'm the one you accused of libel.
I find it rather ironic that some anti-gunners think that there is no "legitimate purpose" for owning an "assault weapon"...yet when they come across a website that ruffles their feathers, they seek out the owner's personal contact information.

A move that some would argue serves no "legitimate purpose" other than harrassment, particularly since the website itself offers a contact link.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. some would indeed
... when they come across a website that ruffles their feathers,
they seek out the owner's personal contact information.

A move that some would argue serves no "legitimate purpose"
other than harrassment, particularly since the website itself
offers a contact link.


Even when they don't have a shred of evidence or a scintilla of reasoning to back up that "argument" ... which still looks, to me, to be more in the nature of an unfounded allegation of wrongdoing that the person making it is completely unable to substantiate, and yet is reiterating in the face of alternative explanations that are far more than equally plausible and that the person in question absolutely must be deemed to be aware of.

You know ... like mine, in that same thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=70608&mesg_id=70723

Making the conscious and deliberate choice to put up a non-anonymous, autonomous website and then listing false information for it says something.

What it says to me is that the person who did it wanted to acquire the aura of legitimacy and credibility that doesn't attach to people who have sites at blog places, or Angelfire or the like. That's just my perception, of course, but I can't think of another reason offhand. Except maybe that it's easier to attract visitors to an autonomous website, through search engines or the more memorable nature of the url.

So what it looks like to me is that someone wanted that aura and those benefits, but decided not to do the very thing that is the consideration given for acquiring them: identify himself. *That* is what gives websites and their owners credibility and legitimacy in the public eye. And acquiring the credibility and legitimacy without providing the counterpart for it -- identity -- might be called, well, sneaky.
You can read me as saying that people who are curious about who such people might be have the "legitimate purpose" in mind, when they investigate and then report breaches of the terms on which such website owners acquire that credibility and legitimacy, of protecting the surfing public's interest in the integrity of the domain-name / site-ownership system.

Of course, I guess that there are some who would call the efforts made for that purpose "harassment". There were people on the New Twilight Zone who called lunch "dinosaur", too. Language is such fun. It's certainly not too much to expect that someone who is calling lunch "dinosaur" define his/her terms, though, is it?

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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Fine.
n/t
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Language is such fun.
On that Twilight Zone episode... did they have a definition of "rat" or "Net Nazi"? How about "1984" (try reading it some time and try to understand it... you might learn something).
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. nah
"How about "1984" (try reading it some time and try to understand it... you might learn something)."

It's much too deep for me, I'm sure.


I seem to know something you don't.

http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/politicsphilosophyandsociety/story/0,6000,986354,00.html
(and related, most interesting links at the bottom of that page)

Corin Redgrave responds to last week's news that his father was named on George Orwell's blacklist

Saturday June 28, 2003
The Guardian

... For a long time I thought the bigotry that blighted Brown's career <Phil Brown, an American actor and one of McCarthy's blacklistees, and friend of Corin's father, actor Michael Redgrave> was something peculiarly American, deriving from that prurient guilt which Hawthorne exposes in The Scarlet Letter. But English actors were blacklisted too. Not so many, and not for so long. But it had happened. My father had been blacklisted, which was no doubt one of the reasons he felt sympathy for Phil Brown and wanted to help him.

My father had signed a manifesto in January 1941 called the People's Convention. It was organised by the Communist party, at a time when the pact between Hitler and Stalin was still in place. It was not overtly a pacifist or even an anti-war document. But it addressed a very widespread suspicion of the government's intentions, and an even more widespread resentment at the lack of provision that had been made for the protection of people in the Blitz.

My father thought it a good socialist document and signed it. ... Altogether 12 artists, including my father, were banned from broadcasting because they had signed the People's Convention and refused to publicly withdraw their support. Leslie Howard organised a petition. Laurence Olivier rang my father very indignantly to say "I thought this was the kind of thing we were supposed to be fighting against". Forty Labour MPs circulated a letter against the ban. Ralph Vaughan Williams withdrew permission for the BBC to broadcast his latest work. EM Forster addressed a packed meeting at Conway Hall, organised by the National Council for Civil Liberties.
My goodness. However did Michael Redgrave get on a blacklist administered by the right wing in the UK??

George Orwell's diary entry for January 22 1941 quotes a friend saying "the People's Convention racket is much underestimated and... one must fight back and not ignore it. He said that thousands of people are taken in by the appealing programme of the People's Convention and do not realise that it is a defeatist manoeuvre intended to help Hitler." Orwell goes on to say that he himself ripped down a number of their posters, "the first time I have ever done such a thing".

True, by the time Orwell wrote to Celia Kirwan in 1949 with his list, my father was beyond the reach of his spite. Apparently Orwell's purpose was simply to advise the Information Research Department about people whose patriotism was in question and who therefore should not be trusted as propagandists.

Was this the Orwell you were referring to?

Did you learn something?

Am *I* comparing CO Liberal to the real Orwell? Nope. I don't think that everyone who acts on his/her conscience in what s/he perceives to be the public interest, and particularly in a manner and matter that is entirely unrelated to any form of official repression of ideas or words or actions, or persecution of the individual whose ideas or words or actions they are, is a George Orwell.

I would certainly agree that we all have different ideas about what is in the public interest, and what it is appropriate to do in our efforts to advance it, and that no one's judgment in these matters is revealed truth and not open to criticism.

*I* certainly draw the line at reporting decent people of conscience to right-wing governments with the power to cause them immeasurable harm, if not before. Orwell didn't. I'm quite sure CO Liberal would.

And I simply see no likeness between

- exposing someone who is improperly exploiting the public's entirely natural and reasonable assumption of the legitimacy and credibility of an autonomous registered website and its owner, while refusing to provide the information that is the basis of that trust -- who is thereby violating the conventions that are the basis of the trust that is essential to civil society, of which we are all members and for which we all have responsibility

and

- reporting someone who is engaged in sincere and transparent efforts to influence public policy in the direction that s/he conscientiously believes to be best -- to a government that, to anyone who shares those conscientious beliefs and to anyone honest enough to admit the truth, is engaged in improper and oppressive actions against innocent people.

And I wonder how anyone could see such a likeness, or pretend to see it.

Perhaps what we all really need to read is a little more Jane Austin.


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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. what, no Jane Austin fans?

And no one who sees the delicious irony of calling conscientious whistle-blowing Orwellian?

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I find it rather ironic
that pretty much everything about the RKBA cause always turns out to be utterly bogus...and most of it looks phony from the get-go.

Gee, I support environmental protection...but if it turned out that the environment was not in any danger, and that the worst people in public life all supported environmental protection while the best opposed it, and that all of the groups also supporting environmental protection were phony, I know I'd sure have second thoughts.
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. There's a flipside.
If you had owned guns your entire life, your father had owned guns his entire life, and his father too...you'd probably have second thoughts about politicians suddenly telling you that you're not to be trusted with guns.

It's all a matter of perspective.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Hmmmm... Three Generations of Gun Owners.....
Edited on Thu Jul-15-04 09:54 PM by CO Liberal
Is it a genetic defect???

:-)

(Sorry - couldn't resist!!!)
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I guess it would seem strange to people who think guns are newfangled.
n/t
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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I've often wondered
if the desire for freedom was caused by a genetic defect. There seems to be so few of us.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. And it's hilarious to hear
some people's perspective seems to be limited to their own personal popguns, to the detriment of everything else in America.
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. I can't change "everyone else." I only have control over my own actions.
n/t
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. You sure changed it from "everything else"
which is what I said...
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. "Everything else" (e.g., gun crime) is performed by "everyone else."
So the context wasn't changed one bit. I shouldn't be penalized for the detrimental actions of others.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Not even close...
"some people's perspective seems to be limited to their own personal popguns, to the detriment of everything else in America."
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. My "personal popguns" have no detrimental effect on "anything else."
So yeah, my perspective and the sphere of my own influence is limited to my own personal surroundings.
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Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. I find it ironic...
that the anti RKBA individuals will call anything the RKBA side does bogus, and then state that the end of the AWB will mean UZIs and AK-47s will be legal again....oh, and that once a state passes Right TO Carry, the streets run red with the blood of the children.

It's ironic and pathetic, but I guess that has become a prereq for being anti-RKBA.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Gee, town, that's not ironic...
"the end of the AWB will mean UZIs and AK-47s will be legal again"
Jeepers, wonder what weapons S. 1431 and HR 1038 actually cover...

"IN GENERAL- Section 921(a)(30) of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:
`(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means any of the following:
`(A) The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:
`(i) AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;
`(xxi) Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz)."


"the streets run red with the blood"
30,000 Americans killed, another 60,000 plus wounded every year...that isn't enough blood to suit you?
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. You just proved how impotent the law is.
Because it defines a "semiautomatic assault weapon" as one of several firearm models that are select-fire only.

That's like saying that a "pickup truck" is defined as one of the following: Ford F-150, Chevy S-10, Ford Mustang, Toyota Tacoma or Ferrari Testarossa. Defining a Ferrari Testarossa as a "pickup truck" in some law doesn't make it one.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Not even close to true, op....
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. The original AWB did nothing to reduce those numbers.
And you conveniently neglected to mention the number of people killed and injured specifically by "assault weapons" as defined in the ban. Because it sure wouldn't help your case to say that they are used in say, 2% of gun crimes.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Feel free to link to it, op...
"you conveniently neglected to mention the number of people killed and injured"
I also conveniently neglected to mention yet again the scummy sorts of politicans and pressure groups pushing for the ban to sunset....or many another thing.

But hey, who cares how many get killed or wounded so long as a few crazies get their hands on these?
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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. Honorable
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Thanks
:-)
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FatSlob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
21. More Proof that COLIB is a stand up guy
I knew I liked you for a reason!
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Garsh!!!!
:-)
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. Locking.
I'm locking this thread per the request of the original author.
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