The Black Panthers on gun control

[bigbillhaywood]

Black Panther Minister of Information, Eldridge Cleaver noted in 1968: "Some very interesting laws are being passed. They don't name me; they don't say, take the guns away from the niggers. They say that people will no longer be allowed to have (guns). They don't pass these rules and these regulations specifically for black people, they have to pass them in a way that will take in everybody."

In response to Black Panther activism, the CA Assembly began to introduce new gun control laws. The Panthers stormed the California Assembly with pistols, shotguns, and assault rifles (all legal under CA's "open carry" laws) to protest the attempt to legislate new gun control.

In 1967, the Mulford Act, which banned open carry in most urban areas, was signed into law by none other than Governor Ronald Reagan.

On a side note, the Federal Firearms Act of 1938 just happened to be passed in the midst of the greatest labor unrest America had ever seen (with strikers using armed self-defense against the police and National Guard). Strange coincidence, huh? Especially when you consider that the Feds didn't seem to see the need to regulate firearms when Prohibition-era gangsters were mowing down each other (and FBI agents!) with Tommy guns.

And yet, despite all the evidence that gun control has historically been used to disarm the black and working-class to take away their means of self-defense and resistance, so many on the "left" support gun control. Even the Commmunist Party, USA supports it now. How sad.

[CO Liberal]

1. Link, Please

Thank you....

[bigbillhaywood]

3. No link. I wrote it, compiling the information from different sources.

If you want to find some of the quotes, facts and stuff, you can google the relevant terms. And I don't get all my info from the internet (still being a bit of a luddite-- mags, books, etc.), but you can find some of this stuff on there.

[CO Liberal]

5. Then You Should List Your Sources

[bigbillhaywood]

7. Umm, I'm not writing a term paper and this isn't the I/P forum, so I don't

want to be bothered with it. Sorry, but the information is readily available to anyone who want to investigate it further. Exactly what part of my post would you like a source for?

[CO Liberal]

11. Then Don't Bother Posting It

Sorry, but without sources there's no way of knowing if you made that stuff up or not.

[Jack_DeLeon]

12. So what exactly is it that you think he made up?

Do you think he made up the part about California passing said laws?

Do you think he made up the part about the Black Panthers marching on the California Capitol?

This stuff is pretty much history stuff here, so just because you dont know your history everything has to have links?

So if I talk about WWII do I have to post a link explaining WWII otherwise you might think I made it up?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panthers
1967 The party marched on the California state capital armed to the teeth, to protest the state's attempt to outlaw carrying loaded weapons in public.

[CO Liberal]

15. After All The Months I've Spent On This Board....

...I don't trust ANYTHING that's posted without a link or sources.

[DoNotRefill]

94. then why not google phrases?

they should come up if you use advanced search....

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigbillhaywood]

17. Take a look around DU. Lots of people post stuff without sources

And rarely are they implicitly accussed of making it up on the sole basis of another poster disagreeing with their opinions on a subject. I/P is the only forum you must list sources when starting a thread. And if you think I'm lying, have the stones to come out and say it.

What precisely do you think I'm lying about? What Cleaver said? He was a well known advocate of armed revolution. Or maybe that the FFA was passed in 1938? Or that there was labor strife in the 30s?

Or maybe you just don't like the idea that gun control has been used to deprive minorities and workers of the means to defend themselves from attacks from police, military, Klan, Pinkertons, etc. Maybe you would like to prove that the police, military, Klan, Pinkertons, etc. never attacked Blacks or strikers, and that Blacks and strikers never used weapons to defend themselves.

Here's another group you should google: Deacons For Defense. Black Baptist deacons in the South who had the crazy idea they should get armed and fight back against the State-suppoted Klan and police forces.

[CO Liberal]

22. Generally, When You Quote Someone...

...you cite a reference.

[bigbillhaywood]

47. Here ya go-- here's the quote, but please don't expect me to make it

a habit to cite every quote on your demand.

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/01/114272.php

I'm sure you will find some fault with the source, but anyone who knows anything about Eldridge Cleaver and his politics should not find this quote surprising.

[CO Liberal]

85. Thanks, Big Bill!!

We've had too many flat-out lies perpetrated on this board by prople trying to advance their agenda. I figure that if someone can't (or won't) back up a statement, it might be false.

Wayne
(CO Liberal)

[FeebMaster]

86. I'll say.

"We've had too many flat-out lies perpetrated on this board by prople trying to advance their agenda. I figure that if someone can't (or won't) back up a statement, it might be false."

[bigbillhaywood]

87. Sure thing. I understand where you're coming from, but just understand

I'm not really in the habit of citing every source, and I really don't plan to pick that habit up anytime soon.

[greendeerslayer]

46. He didn't make it up

The BPP was 100percent pro-gun, not only is the qoute accurate but the qoute is correct. The first gun laws enacted in the U.S. were passed to deny free blacks the right to own firearms in the pre-Civil War times. Gun control is about social control, be it 1840, 1968, or 1994.

[MrBenchley]

9. It sure is convincing to see these ancient history lessons...

Don't you find YOUR liberal friends obsessing about the Black Panthers' internal politics from 40 years ago (like Bill here) or about Trotsky (like the "Liberals with Guns" guy)?

Me neither.

[bigbillhaywood]

20. "ancient history"

Such disdain for people who were fighting for liberation. And such disdain for the lessons (good and bad) that can be drawn from these struggles.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberal Classic]

55. I have two comments to this statement

It sure is convincing to see these ancient history lessons...

Don't you find YOUR liberal friends obsessing about the Black Panthers' internal politics from 40 years ago (like Bill here) or about Trotsky (like the "Liberals with Guns" guy)?

Me neither.

One, fourty years ago is hardly ancient history. I have a hard time calling anything that has happened since the industrial revolution as truly "ancient history" to say nothing about something that occured within a human life span.

Two, the Black Panthers have made armed marches since then. As part of a Juneteenth celebration the Black Panthers staged an armed march in protest of the the death penalty in front of a convention center in Houston where the Texas Republican Party was holding their state convention. This was in June 2000.

Personally, I think you're calling it ancient history to simply dismiss it so you don't have to debate the issue.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=black+panther+houston+June+2000&btnG=Search

[MrBenchley]

56. Here's my comment....

Personally, I think this crap is utterly unconvincing...it sounds like the sort of crap David Horowitz rants about....

[Liberal Classic]

60. Would you care to elaborate?

Here's my comment... Personally, I think this crap is utterly unconvincing...it sounds like the sort of crap David Horowitz rants about...

Are you saying that this didn't happen, or that it is just unimportant? This would seem to me to be a rather typical non-response I've come to expect. I'm trying to remain topical, and the topic of this thread is the Black Panther Party. Whatever you can say about the Black Panthers, they're not ancient history.

Here's an article from Mumia.org about the protest of then Gov. Bush and the death penalty:

http://www.mumia2000.org/sankofa/622.html


Protest at Republican convention
On June 16-18, Sankofa's supporters took the death-row prisoner's case to the doorstep of the Texas Republican Party Convention in Houston.

On opening day about 100 activists carried big posters reading "Stop the execution of Shaka Sankofa" and distributed leaflets.

Police had set a designated protest area five blocks away. But the protesters, ignoring the cops, marched right to the convention's entrance and used their sound system to condemn Bush.

Those speaking out included Minister Robert Muhammad, Njeri Shakur of the Texas Death Penalty Abolition Movement, and SHAPE Community Center Director Deloyd Parker.

"Poor people do not get justice from this system," Parker said. "Shaka was a poor person, a young person. He didn't get justice."

Several members of the New Black Panther Movement also demonstrated at the convention's opening. Expressing their right to self-defense against a racist system, these protesters carried rifles and shotguns. In Texas it is legal to carry such weapons in public.

This militant protest created a sensation among the media and hostile delegates.

[MrBenchley]

63. No, I don't think much more needs to be said...

Other than to note how hilarious it is...

[MrBenchley]

58. As it turns out, I have a second comment

Funny you ain't got nothing to say about somebody spouting terms like "asshole" and "scab"...

Will you not join me in contemplating the RKBA crowd's blatant hypocrisy?

[Liberal Classic]

62. For what it's worth

I sent an alert on the post where he called you an asshole. That's ad hominem no question.

[bigbillhaywood]

66. Now what exactly do you expect after personally attacking me on

several threads, constantly baiting me and taking a snide and insulting attitude with me on every post? For me to be friendly to you?

Your gun control advocate comrades seem to be capable of reasoned discussion, debate, and disagreement. You, on the other hand, seem pathologically incapable of making a reasonable argument without baiting or insulting someone.

I can't figure out if the problem is that your parents didn't spank you, or that they beat you too much.

[Liberal Classic]

73. Two wrongs don't make a right

What we're supposed to do is click on the Alert link and complain to the moderation volunteers. We're not supposed to respond in kind. Calling someone an asshole is an ad hominem attack, even if you feel it is deserved.

[bigbillhaywood]

80. No but it made me feel better. Besides the procedure of which you speak

does not work with MrBenchley. His posts are deleted, but he keeps doing it anyway. He is a serial disruptor, constantly baiting people, insulting or directly attacking them. Yet for some reason he seems to be above the law at DU. If I acted they way he does, insulting every single person who disagrees with me, there is no questioned I would be tombstoned. Indeed, many have been tombstoned from DU for less than what Benchley has done.

[MrBenchley]

74. Gee, I don't expect anything from you but what you hand out...

including the crying when you get it handed right back...

And you sure seem to be just as snide and rude to CO Liberal and Iverglas as you are to me...

I just find it hilarious and telling that somebody who spent so much time grousing about respect last week hasn't got so much as "boo" to say to you.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

82. Gee, they didn't get any better

[bigbillhaywood]

67. Thanks for the support, but I'm sorry to inform you this is a bad example

The "New Black Panther Party" has absolutely no organizational relationship to the original Black Panther Party, which is now defunct (it's original members having either sold out, dropped out of political life, been murdered or otherwise died, live in exile, or simply moved on to other radical organizations). The surviving members of the original Black Panther Party have denounced the New Black Panther Party.

To make matters worse, the New Black Panther Party is a right-wing, racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic black supremacist organization affliated with the Nation Of Islam.

[Liberal Classic]

72. I have always been unclear on the relationship between them

The New BPP of course claims to be the heir apparent of the BPP, but I have never quite believed them. There to be suspious of this, but as they claim to be the modern incarnation of the BPP I thought it topical enough to post. The Southern Poverty Law Center does consider the New Black Panther Party to anti-semitic. The NOI certianly is homophopic and anti-semetic. I don't know about the New BPP itself being right wing, though I consider the Nation of Islam to be so, and the New BPP does associate with the NOI all the time.

[bigbillhaywood]

76. The late (and infamous anti-Semite) Khalid Muhammed, member of the

NOI, was one of the founders of the New BPP. Don't always trust the SPLC, though-- Morris Dees has his own political agenda and has the tendency to attach the label of "hate group" to those that disagree with him. He tried this bullshit with the anarchists in 1999 shortly after the WTO Battle in Seattle. We wrote a scathing article accusing the anarchist protesters of racism. He and the ADL both briefly had the "Anarchy" symbol included in their databases of "hate symbols", but due to a countercampaign by anarchists and other left-wingers, they were forced to retract it.

Dees is also a big gun control advocate and mercilessly attacks gun control opponents as racists, regardless of their actual views on race (sound like someone on this board?).

[Liberal Classic]

79. The anarchy 'A' as 'hate symbol'?

LOL.

I've read about Morris Dees, but I will search and read about Khalid Muhammed.


Thank you.

[enfield collector]

2. it's all about CONTROL, it's got nothing to do with guns.

[MrBenchley]

4. Jeepers...1968! Let's tune in, turn on and drop out!

Right on! Power to the People (unless they want gun control like 70% or more do)....

Of course, what's going on today is slightly more relevant than this ancient crap....

"Thirty years ago, Illinois Congressman Bobby Rush was a leader in the Black Panther Party, an organization best known for advocating armed revolution. At the time, Rush routinely wore sunglasses, a beret and he carried a gun. Today the congressman dresses in a fashion more suitable to Capitol Hill, and he wants to rid the nation of guns."

http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?docid=1P1:42837805&refid=ink_looksmt&skeyword=gun+control&teaser=...Congressman+Bobby+Rush's+views+on+gun+control+and+other+issues+from+his+Black...representative+he's+pushed+gun+control+legislation.+Even+Rush+smiles+at...Congressman+Rush+had+sponsored+three+gun+-+control+bills+and+signed+on+to+nearly+30...

"Prior to his election to Congress, Congressman Rush was an Alderman in the Chicago City Council. He represented the 2nd Ward on Chicago's South Side for 8 years. As an Alderman, Rush helped pass significant environmental protection, gun control and neighborhood development legislation."

http://www.house.gov/rush/about/bio.html

"Sen. Charles Schumer and Rep. Bobby Rush have introduced the "Internet Gun Trafficking Act of 1999" in the Senate and House. This proposal would, among other things, require any web site operator who facilitates the sale of firearms to become a federally licensed gun dealer."

http://www.techlawjournal.com/internet/19990330gun.htm

[bigbillhaywood]

6. Another 60s radical that sold out to the bourgoisie-- what's so special

about that? And please don't forget, there was a split in the Black Panther Party between those who wanted to carry out armed struggle (Eldridge Cleaver and Huey P. Newton) and those who wanted to shift to a more conventional, electoral route (Bobby Seale). Rush was on the Bobby Seale side of the split, along with may others that got scared after the police murdered Fred Hampton while sleeping in his bed.

So this news is not surprising at all.

[MrBenchley]

8. Too TOO funny....

Right on!

[bigbillhaywood]

13. Too TOO accurate...

For you to dispute the facts of my post, obviously.

[CO Liberal]

16. If It's So Accurate and Fact-Filled....

...then why didn't you provide links or sources?

:shrug:

[bigbillhaywood]

18. See post 17.

[CO Liberal]

23. See Post 22.

[MrBenchley]

21. It's accurate and fact filled

the way Faux Noise is fair and balanced...and just about as convincing.

Flower Power!

[bigbillhaywood]

27. And since you have so much disdain for 60s radicals and activists

What have you done Mr. Benchley? Ever been arrested or attacked by the police for your beliefs? Ever gone to prison for it, been attacked by dogs or tortured? And obviously you're here so you haven't been murdered for it.

Well, many activists in the 60s did just that in a struggle for liberation, civil rights and peace. Some of us have experienced some of those things more recently. And all you can do is make snide remarks about people who have sacrificed more for social justice than you likely ever will.

[MrBenchley]

29. Tee hee hee....

"Ever gone to prison for it, been attacked by dogs or tortured?"
Yeah, Bill, that happened all the time back in the 60s....after I helped my girlfriend burn her bra, we'd go out and get tortured together...

"many activists in the 60s did just that in a struggle for liberation, civil rights and peace"
You know it's funny...back when I was marching for civil rights in the 1960s, I head pretty much the same crappy arguments against civil rights that I heard about gun control...and from many of the same scummy folks, like Jesse Helms. And of course, it's so noticeable how many pro gun politicians today stand for libneration, civil rights and peace....NOT!

"all you can do is make snide remarks about people who have sacrificed more for social justice"
Gee, who was that called Bobby Rush a sell out? It sure wasn't me...

[bigbillhaywood]

31. It was an accurate statement. I stand behind it.

"Gee, who was that called Bobby Rush a sell out?"

[MrBenchley]

32. you're welcome to it...

I'll stand with Bobby Rush and you can stand with AshKKKroft and the gun rights crowd....

[bigbillhaywood]

34. That's okay, I'll stand with Leonard Peltier, Geronimo Pratt, and the

other true revolutionaries. You can stand with the washed-up 60s activist sell-outs.

[MrBenchley]

36. Let's do the Time Warp again...

It's amazing how you seem utterly unable to address anything that's happened since, say, 1975...

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

40. If you could you would...

but you can't so you won't...

Let the eagle soar-r-r-r-r-r-r-r...
Let's pretend we're liberals and roar-r-r-r-r-r
the same gun rights blah as befor-r-r-r-r-re....

[Liberal Classic]

61. I'm afraid I have to alert this post...

As blatantly ad hominem.

[bigbillhaywood]

70. But can you really blame me? Tell me Benchley didn't have that

coming to him.

[slackmaster]

92. That's beside the point

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three do.

:spank:

[bigbillhaywood]

44. What about Amadou Diallo, what about the Cincinnati rebellion,

what about the Pittston Strike, what about the Charleston Five? I can give you many examples of the State using armed force against minorities and strikers after 1975-- those are just a few. If Bush is reselected, there will be many, many more in short order.

[MrBenchley]

49. Gee, you mean you think things would have been better

if Diallou had actually had a gun when he was shot down?

That IS seriously fucked up.

"If Bush is reselected, there will be many, many more"
Good to see you over there in the gun nut forums telling them why they should vote for Kerry...oh that's right, like all of our pro-gun democrats, you can't....

[bigbillhaywood]

45. And it's amazing that you have such utter disdain for the lessons of

history.

[MrBenchley]

50. Maybe it's because I actually KNOW the lessons of history

and know the difference between those lessons and a bunch of gibberish about GUNS GUNS GUNS....

[bigbillhaywood]

71. How bout gibberish about NO GUNS NO GUNS NO GUNS...

It took me a while to get down to the gungeon, MrBenchley. Search my posts MrBenchley, and you will see most of them have not a damn thing to do with guns. You, on the other hand...

[MrBenchley]

75. Gee, that Is hilarious...

[MrBenchley]

19. WHAT facts?

This is tired and warmed-over crap from the 60s?

Free Huey!

[bigbillhaywood]

24. "tired and warmed-over crap from the 60s" see post #20

[MrBenchley]

26. Why? It didn't get any better with age....

[CO Liberal]

28. Especially When No References Are Cited....

:-)

[MrBenchley]

30. Boy o boy, it sure was exciting though, wasn't it?

Wish I had me one of them guns so I could join up (snicker).

[bigbillhaywood]

33. So when we can't think of good arguments on the basis of a post's

content, we will question it's validity, imply that the author is making things up (without actually coming out and saying it of course), bait the author, make snide comments about the activism of the 60s being ancient history, whatever.

Anything but address the issue of whether or not ethnic minorites and working-class people should be able to defend themselves from armed aggression from the State. That's okay the police and military never do bad things like that to their own citizens-- this is America!

[MrBenchley]

35. And when the post turns out to have no validity

and be just another lame argument for GUNS GUNS GUNS, let's pout.

"defend themselves from armed aggression"
It's wonderful to see how many of our "patriots" are willing to shoot their fellow Americans at the drop of a hat (or even better to have other folks do so), but utterly unwilling to do something even slightly less drastic...like wander over to a gun nut forum and make an argument for John Kerry's election.

[bigbillhaywood]

38. I'd ask you what you would do if you were on strike and the police

started shooting, but you'd probably be a scab to begin with.

[MrBenchley]

39. Gee, I leave scabbing to the NRA types....

You know, the ones who pretend to be pro-gun liberals but have nothing but excuses as to why they can't say anything in favor of John Kerry on a gun nut forum...

[CO Liberal]

54. Going By The "Hobbies" On Your Profile....

...why should I trust ANYTHING you post that isn't referenced or cited?

:shrug:

[bigbillhaywood]

65. I'm a smart-ass, so sue me.

[Jack_DeLeon]

10. Gun control is definately anti-poor and anti-minority

Poorer people cant afford to live in gated communities, or have a private security force. Most cant afford to move out of thier neighborhoods even if they wanted to because of crime.

Firearms in and of themselves are usually pretty expensive, usually like $500 for a good handgun, $200 for a shotgun, and $500-$1000 for a good rifle. Funny that some people want to ban SKS Rifles when they are really some most affordable rifles costing about $100-$200.

Laws that make it manditory for people to get a liscense before they can carry or just own a firearm also hurt them too since these liscenses usually cost a couple hundred dollars either for manditory classes, the fee for the liscense, and/or a combination of both.

That being said, "may issue" concealed carry states are really the worst, in those places its up to the descretion of the local law enforcement if they give out concealed carry permits.

The people who need them most, those lower on the social-economic ladder usually dont get them, while those who need them the least, those higher on the social-economic ladder usually will.

[MrBenchley]

41. And yet every racist around peddles "gun rights"

and fights gun control....

About every civil rights group around ended up no the NRA's enemies list...

[OpSomBlood]

42. But not everyone for RKBA is racist.

You're the one treating it as though it's a self-evident corollary...that being in favor of individual gun ownership somehow makes you racist, despite the fact that the two issues are completely exclusive.

To the contrary, I'm very much in favor of the right of minorities to arm and defend themselves. There would probably be more Native Americans around if more people felt that way.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

52. Funny, that so many are...

and even funnier that our "pro gun democrats" aren't troubled even slightly by that FACT...but bent completely out fof shape by any mention of that FACT.

[library_max]

95. TSed? For what, making unflattering generalizations?

You guys do that kind of stuff all the time! When do any of you expect to be TSed for calling control advocates fascists, gun-grabbers, authoritarians, etc. etc.?

[MrBenchley]

51. Gee, and who said it did?

Oh, yeah, that would be the people who keep trying to spin away that racism...

[bigbillhaywood]

43. And Pat Buchanan is a leading critic of NAFTA, PNTR for China

and other "free trade" scams. He's a right-wing racist fuck, but he's correct on these issues. You can't always fault the message just because of the messenger.

[MrBenchley]

53. You're welcome to his company...

myself, I look askance at anything that humhole is for....

"he's correct on these issues"
Says who?

[bigbillhaywood]

69. Says organized labor and most progressives. I had a feeling I knew

what I was dealing with when I first came across you, MrBenchley, now it is confirmed. A conservative, free marketeer, Clintonian Democrat. Nothing more. Nothing less. How boring. No wonder you feel the need to insult and bait people to make yourself seem more interesting.

[MrBenchley]

77. Gee, that's hilarious...

Those would be the folks that ended up on the NRA enemies list....

Ask me next if I have any doubts about YOU...

[bigbillhaywood]

81. We were talking about "free trade" scams, remember MrBenchley?

And how the message does not always equal the messenger. And yet you trot out NRA's enemies' list, as if that RW organization's programs have any bearing on an objective discussion about the right of people to armed self-defense against the State.

[MrBenchley]

83. Actually we're talking about being trigger-happy

and you trying to pretend that "organized labor and progressives" feel the need to grab guns and wave them around...but in fact almost all of those groups support gun control...

And it's really hilarious to hear you try to pretend that the gun lobby has no bearing on any discussion of guns...especially since you're peddling their propaganda while trying to hide it with prose cobbled out of old issues of Ramparts.

"the right of people to armed self-defense against the State."
Yeah, Buford Furrow was big on that principle...so was Tim McVeigh. Of course they didn't realize that was just empty rhetoric and actually ended up blowing up a day care center and shooting up a kindergarten.

Again, it's wonderful to hear patriots who are gleefully lookig forward to shooting their fellow Americans (or have somebody else do it for them) but full of excuses as to why they can't say anything liberal on a gun forum where other gun owners can hear them.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OpSomBlood]

57. Broken clock is right twice a day.

Unfortunately, some ideologues would rather hate the messenger.

[MrBenchley]

59. And is otherwise worthless...

But hey, if you want to wave your broken clock around, op, be my guest.

[OpSomBlood]

64. Whatever.

Yeah, I certainly was espousing Pat Buchanan's right-wing ideology there. Sure, if you say so.

[OpSomBlood]

68. I fully support the right of minorities to arm and defend themselves.

It makes sense, considering that I'm a minority myself.

Those damn Hispanic racists...

[Columbia]

88. Didn't you get the memo?

The Black Panthers are a phony, made-up group. I bet you they don't even have a website with proper registry information. Fakers!!!

[hansberrym]

90. And the other memo, about "gun rights" being concocted in the 1970s...

No Grabber is to admit that individual rights to own and carry weapons have any historic basis earlier than the 1970s.


All earlier references are to be ignored, and if not possible to ingnor, then launch full force ad homium attacks on the persons or groups that made those statements.


Exceptions JFK, the proper response is that he was shot


Examples of proper Grabber responses:


Debates on the 14th amendment (Ignor at all times)

Debates from founding era
Attack persons such a T.Coxe

Deny relevance of other contemporay sources such as VA Bill of Rights, Militia acts, debates at ratifying conventions etc.

Delete phrases from quotes to make them appear ambiguous

and Always Deny, Deny, Deny!

[OpSomBlood]

91. The fact that JFK was pro RKBA was nullified by him being shot...

Yes, and everyone killed in a car accident is posthumously awarded with the opinion that individual car ownership should be illegal.

[MrBenchley]

93. And so the RKBA crowd shows that the same dreary crap they peddle

is still dreary crap...

SSDD