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everythingsxen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 06:45 PM
Original message
I want to start using my 2nd Amendment rights; need advice
Edited on Sat Jul-17-04 06:51 PM by everythingsxen
I am looking into getting a firearm.

My main factors involved in what I want are:

  1. Price
  2. Availability of ammunition
  3. Ease of maintainance
  4. Stopping power

The top 3 are the important ones. As far as stopping power, my primary want is anything above a .22 .

I am pretty narrow in what I want, basically either a shotgun or semi-automatic pistol. ARs are out of my price range and rifles lack the rate of fire (and those that do have the ROF I am looking for are too pricey).

I have been looking online at various online gun retailers and I stopped at the local gun store today.

I have found several options in the 9mm and .45 catagories for less than $200. Shotguns are also pretty cheap, coming in at less than $100.

Anyone out there have other recommendations for weapons, maybe sites I have not found or suggestions/stories about good weapons. Thanks in advance for any advice.

On Edit: Removed smart ass remark
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ask the experts in J/PS; they'll be glad to help.
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everythingsxen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Posted this to JPS
I had thought to post it there originally, but thought that it was more of a Lounge topic, since it's more of an advice question as opposed to a debate over guns. But thanks.
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Bertha Venation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Even so, that's the best place to post it for the best response -- and
I think such posts are allowed, if not welcomed.
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Bertha Venation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Second that. Go to Justice/Public Safety. And look for DUer named alwynsw.
He's a bud. Good luck.
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Wilber_Stool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. 9MM Glock
Edited on Sat Jul-17-04 06:52 PM by Wilber_Stool
About $400 used. Try a pawn shop. or newspaper ad.


http://www.glock.com/
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galadrium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. I am partial to the .40 cal
Get a glock.... or an HK if you have extra cash.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. Pump-action 12-gauge loaded with goose shot
If you want to scare the living PISS out of an intruder, rack a shell into the chamber of a pump-action shotgun. Additionally, the shot can't penetrate two sheets of drywall--meaning you don't have to worry about taking out the next-door neighbor, or your kid sleeping in the other room, if you have to shoot someone.

Remington makes good shotguns. Start there.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm thinking about taking up smoking

Can anybody recommend a good brand of cigarettes? I'm concerned about the ease of draw, overall taste, price, and availability, and interested in knowing how different brands stack up. It's not easy to find this kind of information for myself, so all assistance will be appreciated.

Oh, damn. This one should have gone in the "Health Care, Education, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, Housing, TOBACCO, Etc." forum too.

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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I make my own
and buy all my supplies from www.cigarettetobacco.com . I have an excel injection machine which I can heartily recommend. My preferred tobacco/tube combination is Rowland tobacco with Windsail tubes, although I'm not particularly picky on my tube selection.

I also have a Gizeh rollbox for when I feel like having a filterless cigarette. I prefer escort papers. Sadly, I didn't spend my college years smoking more illicit substances and can't seem to roll a cigarette by hand for the life of me.

I heartily recommend making your own. My average cost per carton is around $12.50 including shipping and handling, for injected cigarettes If I were to buy a carton at the store, it would cost about $50. I don't know about the tax situation on MYO/RYO products up in Canada, but I'm sure making your own is still cheaper than buying manufactured cigarettes.

Interestingly enough, a number of the big MYO/RYO companies are located in Canada. CTC for one, which is the Clinton Tube Company as I recall. They make a fine cigarette tube.
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. A frugal consumer!
I like that :smoke: I'll bet you're a reloader also?


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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I would be
if I were a gun owner.
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. That's cool.
Smoking and reloading (at the same time), is bad ju-ju anyways.

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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I wouldn't want to be one more GITN story. (nt)
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Retired AF Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-04 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. You are probably old enough
that you don't have to worry about them killing you. :)
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-04 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
15. Join the National Guard...
Thats' what the Second Amendment covers, as the courts have ruled AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=49341
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thanks for involving yourself in a conversation you have no input for.
n/t
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. Thanks for deciding who does and does not have input for a thread in DU.
n/t
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cedarriver Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. National Guard..2cnd amendment
Not even close. National guard is a State sponsored, military style group. You may remember from your Jr. high school history, the 2cnd amendment concerns Federal Law.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. In All States....
...the National Guard took over the job of the militia during the 1800s. I guess you were sleeping in class the day they discussed that in YOUR jr. high history class.
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cedarriver Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Really?
So if the National Guard took over the function of the militia in the 1800's why did the Chicago riots happen during the civil war? And the government can institute the draft under what constitutional section?
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. If I Recall Correctly, The National Guards Were Formed in the 1890s
Long after the Civil War.

Nice try - thank you for playing. And what to we have for him, Don Pardo??
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Being as Colorado Didn't Become a State Until 1876...
...your point is moot.

Enjoy the Rice-a-Roni Don Pardo is now describing. After all, your consolation prize IS "The San Francisco Treat".
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swineguy Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. According to the Colorado National Guard
they were established in 1860.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Colorado Itself Wasn't Established Until 1876
In 1860, they were still a territory.
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swineguy Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Take it up
With the Colorado National Guard. That is their opinion, not mine
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. From Their Web Page
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/arng-co.htm

The history of the Colorado National Guard begins in January, 1860, when the 1st General Assembly of the Jefferson Territory authorized the formation of two military companies – the "Jefferson Rangers" and the "Denver Guards".

Note this was before it was even a territory. And nowhere are either usints refered to as the "national guard".


On February 26, 1861, Colorado became a territory of the Union and William Gilpin, the first Governor, organized the "Colorado Volunteers" for the defense of the territory and to oppose the invasion of Confederate forces during the Civil War, already under way.

Still no mention of "national guard".

<snip>

On December 16th, 1862, Colorado mustered its’ first artillery unit, the 168th, into service. Two years later, the Colorado Militia was called to duty in the fall of 1864 to protect against the impending danger created by hostile Ute, Sioux, Cheyenne, Arapahoe, Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache Indians threatening settlers in the Colorado Territory. The state of Colorado served as host for the battle of Beecher Island (Yuma county) and the infamous Battle of Sand Creek (Kiowa county).

Here's it's called the "militia".


The Colorado Guard was activated as the State Militia for the protection of public rights, safety, and property during the coal miner strike years between 1889 and 1922. The most publicized incidents occurred at Cripple Creek, Ludlow and Leadville.

And here, it's called the "militia".

* * * * *

IMHO, this page is talking about ancestor groups to the present-day National Guard, which has now taken over the role of the militia.
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swineguy Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Please help me out
The history of the Colorado National Guard begins in January, 1860, when the 1st General Assembly of the Jefferson Territory authorized the formation of two military companies – the "Jefferson Rangers" and the "Denver Guards".

This appears to say that according the Colorado National Guard, they originated in 1860.


On February 26, 1861, Colorado became a territory of the Union and William Gilpin, the first Governor, organized the "Colorado Volunteers" for the defense of the territory and to oppose the invasion of Confederate forces during the Civil War, already under way.

To me the money quote of the above paragraph is "The Colorado Volunteers" For you see the National Guard is, and always has been 100% volunteer. which is why the Guard is the Guard, and the militia is the militia. The militia can be called up as in The Viet Nam Conflict, or the Korean Police Action

On December 16th, 1862, Colorado mustered its’ first artillery unit, the 168th, into service. Two years later, the Colorado Militia was called to duty in the fall of 1864 to protect against the impending danger created by hostile Ute, Sioux, Cheyenne, Arapahoe, Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache Indians threatening settlers in the Colorado Territory. The state of Colorado served as host for the battle of Beecher Island (Yuma county) and the infamous Battle of Sand Creek (Kiowa county).

'1862 mustered up' mustered up means to call up its volunteers. As in those persons that volunteered to serve if needed. This is much different from the militia, that as of this very moment can be called up to serve if needed (draft).

(and just for fun, the militia was called up and told to bring their own artillery?) So I must be able to own artillery1


The Colorado Guard was activated as the State Militia for the protection of public rights, safety, and property during the coal miner strike years between 1889 and 1922. The most publicized incidents occurred at Cripple Creek, Ludlow and Leadville.

And here, it's called the "militia".

* * * * *

IMHO, this page is talking about ancestor groups to the present-day National Guard, which has now taken over the role of the militia.





And still no mention of people being 'drafted' against their will to serve under the government. The differention, is , volunteer or mandated? Volunteer means National Guard, Called to serve without volunteering means militia.

Please take up your dispute with the origination with the Colorado National Guard, with the Colorado National Guard, I just quoted them.




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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. And Unless You're a Geometry Teacher....
...please stop going off on tangents.
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swineguy Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Sorry to waste your time
in the absence of rebuttal, I assume there is nothing but phtththhtt.
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Rebuttals are difficult when you haven't said anything. /nt
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Thanks, Max
I hadn't seen anything worth entering key strokes over....

:-)
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Now, Isn't THAT Special????
Just one post, and he earns himself one of these:



:-)
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. ooooh

a fair few more than one post, methinks. ;)

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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-04 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
16. I assume this is for home defense
In which case, a name brand 12 guage shotgun is really tough to beat. A servicable shotgun is quite cheap even if you get a name brand like Remington (I use a Browning BPS myself). The ammo is dirt cheap. And its very easy to clean a smoothbore pump shotgun.

As was mentioned, a shotgun with goose or turkey shot will not penetrate a wall and endanger someone other than the intended target. The shotgun is also dead simple to aim (point at center of bad guy and fire), simple to shoot (it's not a big deal if you jerk the trigger), and is absolutely unbeatable in close range stopping power. Some professional hunters in Africa carry 12 and 10 guage shotguns to stop charging leopards and lions.

Another advantage of the 12 guage shotgun is that you can vary what type of gun it is by swapping ammo. Even if you don't use crazy specialty ammo, you have a huge range of shells that are all interchangable. Slug, buckshot, goose, turkey, bird shot, trap load, non-lethal ammo, flash-bang blanks, etc. You can also, depending on the model, easily change barrel length. I have two barrels for my BPS.

For home defense, I'd take a shotgun over any handgun.
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Romulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
22. What's the usage?
That is the first question to ask.
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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
23. Other than the 2nd Amendment
Is there another reason?
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
27. Move to a state with an armed militia and join it, if you can find one.
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 05:23 PM by library_max
Otherwise, you're barking up the wrong tree on Second Amendment rights, as every US court case on the subject will inform you.
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swineguy Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. Ahh, May want to actully read the 2 cnd ammendment
'The right to keep and bear arms shall not be restricted'

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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Another courageous refusal to quote the entire amendment!
"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Doesn't matter? Well, every single standing US court precedent is based on the Miller decision, which determined that the Second Amendment is relevant only in the context of continuing and making effective the militia. And the armed militia is dead as a doornail nowadays, so likewise the Second Amendment.
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. Repeat a lie enough...
Yeah, because you know how Miller was part of the National Guard and the USSC said you had to have membership in the National Guard to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights and all...

Oh wait... :eyes:
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. You'd be the expert on lies, I guess.
I didn't say word one about the National Guard, now, did I?

Miller said that the entire purpose of the Second Amendment was to continue and render effective the militia, and that it could only be applied to that end. That heaves an individual RKBA right out the nearest window, especially since there is no longer any such thing as an armed militia.
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whinny Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. No longer a militia?
I must have missed that amendment to the constitution that eliminated it. I do remember that part of the constitution that creates the militia.

Miller specifically uses the word 'militia' and not National Guard, even though the Oklahoma National Guard existed in 1934. Just an aside, Miller created statute by declaring that shotguns can be not longer that 18 inches. The federal Firearms Act NEVER gives a specific length of barrel, The court created law instead of following it

Miller never claimed to be a member of the National Guard, or the militia, except, being a member of the militia is not a volunteer thing but a mandatory thing
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Hee-ee-eee!
That's me, a neigh-sayer.

Oh, it just reminds me of one of my favourite jokes. Surely it's time for that joke thread, no?

This has to be the longest version I've ever seen ...


The School of Wit and Quick Retort

There's this small town in the Midwest. The highlight of the year is in midsummer when the circus comes to town. And each year, the circus stages a parade through the town to attract the people to the big-top.

And everyone goes to watch the parade. And watching the parade is a young teen-age man, sitting on the curb with his friends. It's a small town, and this is the major event of the year. And they watch the parade go by - the lions and tigers in cages on carts pulled by huge matched Percherons - the trapeze artists and acrobats in skimpy costumes, which attract a lot of attention - the small brass band - the elephants - and of course, the clowns.

One of the clowns is wired with sound, and he banters with the audience along the parade route, and everyone can hear his jokes and witticisms. Eventually, he reaches where our hero is sitting, and out of everyone along the parade route, the clown picks this young man for his favourite put-down.

The clown asks "Are you the head of an ass?" and of course, the young man responds "No."

The clown asks "Are you the tail of an ass?" and again our hero answers "No."

Then the clown says "Then you must be no end of an ass."

At this everyone watching the parade bursts into laughter. (For it is a small town and they are easily amused.) And the friends sitting around our hero laugh loudest of all. And our young hero is totally humiliated and embarrassed, and slinks off home and hides in his room, resolving never to come out again. But saying to himself "One of these days, I'm going to get that clown!"

And if that was not enough, that evening his mother calls up to his room, and says "Come on down - the parade's on the cable station - and they are showing you right now."

Totally mortified, he stays in his room. Still thinking to himself "One of these days, I'm going to get that clown!"

With nothing to do, he starts reading through his old comic collection. And he sees an ad on the back page of an old Batman that he'd never noticed before.

In large print the ad asked "Are you the butt of everyone's jokes? Do your friends mock you? Are you left speechless by every insult? Then sign up for The School of Wit and Quick Retort. In 40 easy lessons in the comfort of your own home, you will soon be able to amaze your friends and annihilate your enemies with your repartee. Just fill in and mail the coupon below today."

Well our hero felt he had nothing to lose, so he mailed in the coupon and registered in The School of Wit and Quick Retort. All the time thinking "One of these days, I'm going to get that clown!"

It very quickly became obvious as our hero worked through the lessons, that he had a real untapped talent. He consistently got A's on all his lessons, and complimentary letters back from his instructors saying that never had they had such an excellent student. And when he completed the course, not only did a diploma arrive in the mail, but also a letter offering him a full four year scholarship to obtain a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Wit and Quick Retort. For the School of Wit and Quick Retort was not just a correspondence school, but affiliated with a major university.

And our young hero, seeing an opportunity to leave the scene of his humiliation, grabbed the chance to go to the big city. But as he got on the bus out of town, he was still thinking "One of these days, I'm going to get that clown!"

And our young hero spent four arduous years at university studying the theory and practice of Wit and Quick Retort. And he continued to excel, graduating at the top of his class, But in spite of his success, deep in his heart he remembered his solemn vow "One of these days, I'm going to get that clown!"

Of course, the University could not just let him leave with a degree, he was offered a further scholarship for a Master's Degree in Wit and Quick Retort, together with a teaching assistantship. Three more years of education followed. His masters thesis - "the Wit and Wisdom of New York Cabbies" was sold to Random House for six figures and was on the best seller list for nine months. (Soon to be a major motion picture starring Robert De Niro.) And throughout this success he continued to promise himself "One of these days, I'm going to get that clown!"

And naturally, once he got his Master's degree, the University offered him a chance to study for a PhD. Our hero could not turn this down. Two more years of his life in studying Wit and Quick Retort. His PhD. thesis - "Humor at Stake - the Quick Retort and the Spanish Inquisition" once again hit the best seller lists, and was the basis of a well known Monty Python sketch. Yet still the thought never left him "One of these days, I'm going to get that clown!"

Our hero, now a full fledged Ph.D., entitled to be called Doctor, finally felt he had overcome the humiliation, and could face the friends he had left so long ago. So he decided to return home for a visit, the first time since he fled town for the university. So he returned, not by bus as he had left, but in a brand new BMW (for he was a true yuppie at heart.) But as he drove down the long lonely highway towards his small Midwestern hometown, he never stopped thinking "One of these days, I'm going to get that clown!"

And when he arrived home, he totally amazed and astounded his friends with his newfound abilities. He had a ready retort for everybody. No-one could say anything without his coming back with a quick one-liner (unlike this joke) that just knocked them over laughing. And his new found ability with words was the talk of the town. Everyone wanted to be around him, to be his friend. But in spite of the continued merriment around him, the bitterness in his heart still burned. "One of these days, I'm going to get that clown!"

But only a week after his return, the circus was scheduled to return. And as our hero had already found out, that same clown was still with the circus. And our hero started spreading the word "I'm going to get that clown!"

And by the time of the parade, the whole town was anticipating the showdown.

But our hero avoided the parade. He wanted to do it in the big top. And he continued to tell everyone "I'm going to get that clown!"

That night, the big top was packed. Everyone was there. All anticipating a confrontation between our hero and the clown. And our hero was down in the front row, surrounded by his old friends and his groupies. And our hero continued to say "I'm going to get that clown!"

And they watched lion tamer acts, and elephant acts, and acrobats, and bareback riding. And eventually the clowns came on. And among them was our talking clown, still wired up for sound so everyone could hear his barbed witticisms. And he proceeded to wander around the ring exchanging insults with various members of the audience, particularly those in the front rows.

And eventually, he came upon our hero. And there was a light of recognition in the clown's eyes. He knew he had done a major put-down of this young man years ago. Could he do it again with the same line? It was a challenge, but he'd try.

The clown asks "Are you the head of an ass?" and of course, the young man responds "No."

The clown asks "Are you the tail of an ass?" and again our hero answers "No."

Then the clown says "Then you must be no end of an ass."

To the total astonishment of the clown, there is total silence in the big top. Not one guffaw. Not one laugh, not even a giggle or a snicker.

Everyone knows that our hero has promised "I'm going to get that clown!" Everyone is waiting in eager anticipation. What will the result of ten years intensive study of Wit and Quick Retort produce? What devastating put-down has he in store for the clown"

The suspense builds.

Our hero coldly looks down his nose at the clown, and in a quiet but clear voice that carries through the big top says: "Screw off, clown"

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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Well, where's your militia then?
A militia is a citizen army, drilled and trained under government auspices. The Miller decision gives a pretty good history of European and American militias. If you'll read that history, you'll be struck by the fact that there is no more militia in this country as defined or described in Miller. I agree that the National Guard is not the militia (because it's voluntary and for a lot of other reasons), but it is what replaced the militia. The armed militia, as such, is gone. There isn't even a draft any more.

And you can bitch about minutiae in the Miller decision all you want, but it's still the law of the land.
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
41. For a first gun...
Shotgun: Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 series. I would try to shoot a 12 and a 20 gauge. In a first firearm, the 20 may be better to get a handle on recoil without sacrificing the effective self-defense aspect.

Handgun--Revolver in .38 Spl. or .357 with at least 4' bbl. Less maintenance than a pistol and more manageable than the .45 ACP. The .357 can shoot .38's for practice, familiarization, and is a sufficient caliber on its own.


I would go with the shotgun. It is easier to learn muzzle discipline and has much greater stopping power.

And clay shooting is such a fun way to learn firearms handling.

Mainly, get something you like to shoot.
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VTMechEngr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. OR
a .357 for home defense, since a revolver is really simple to maintain.

a 22 for practice, cause its cheap cheap cheap by comparison.
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gatlingforme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. That is great advice.!! I agree with you on all points. the 20 gauge
is excellent for learning how to get a handle on recoil. you can move up from there. also, 20 gauge is very marketable when you want to move up and need to sell.
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #45
52. Even my turkey gun is a 20...
Beretta semi-auto
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Van23 Donating Member (220 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
48. Good Idea!
The people who are pleading with you not to buy a gun have obviously never been victimized. Buy a gun and learn how to use it properly. In a self-defense situation requiring an emergency response, the cops can't help you.

I recommend a .45 ACP for home defense. While rifles and shotguns are more powerful, the indoor blast of both is literally deafening and can cause brief disorientation...a dangerous thing if you're being attacked.

For carry, use either a .38 Special or a 9MM with hollow point bullets. Rossi makes excellent .38 Specials and they are reasonably priced....about $300 for a new one. Taurus makes a wide variety of good carry revolvers, also. For the .45, I use a Sig P220. Either a Sig or a Glock are your best bets.

To defend your Second Amendment rights, join the Second Amendment Foundation located in Bellevue, WA. They offer legal support to people who are victimized by the legal system for using guns to defend themselves against criminal attacks.
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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Second Amendment Foundation located in Bellevue, WA.
They get a lot of cases.
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Hey, a Second Amendment Foundation jam-packed with lawyers.
And they're even in the Ninth Judicial Circuit.

And they still aren't appealing Silveira!
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