S.1431 What is it?

[FatSlob]

I understand that this bill would allow the Attorney General to ban any semi-auto gun that is ""procured for use by the United States military or any federal law enforcement agency". Do we have any other info?


On edit: I just read the bill. It is truly Draconian. I am upset to see our Presidential Candidate as being a cosponsor. This bill could ban one of the most popular hunting and skeet shooting shotguns on the planet, the one I currently use. I am truly disgusted. All the Republicans will have to do is tell the hunting crowd that "John Kerry wants to ban your Remington." What the hell is he thinking?

Below is part of the bill that describes banned weapons:

`(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.

[MrBenchley]

1. Too too funny...

So somebody who has been lecturing us for months about how evil the Assault Weapons Ban is doesn't know where to find the text of it?

Amazingly fucking telling...our "pro gun democrats" seemingly know every dittomonkey talking point by heart, but actually useful information they draw a blank on....

[slackmaster]

2. IMO it would violate the Constitutional separation of powers

The AG would essentially have the power to write law. That's the job of the Legislative branch, not the executive.

[Romulus]

3. what it is -red meat for the kool-aid drinkers

among the anti-gun-owner crowd.

But for real fun, wait until the bolt-action Remington 700, and all its "ban-evading copycats," get put on that "military procured" list . . .

[MrBenchley]

5. In other words...

dittomonkey rubbish excites our "pro gun democrats" and they goin for a round of Kerry-bashing....

[MrBenchley]

4. Responding to the "edit"...oh those poor widdle guns...

It's "draconian" the way Faux Noise is "fair and balanced"

[CO Liberal]

6. ...and the Way John Lott/Mary Rosh is Honesl.

[MrBenchley]

7. Meanwhile, how do you like these "cries of horror"

about what a "tyrant" our presidential nominee is?

Right wing horseshit from our "pro gun democrats"...are you surprised? Me neither.

[FatSlob]

9. Hey, young man.

I never saw the word "tyrant" in the thread. Once again, you are wrong.

[MrBenchley]

10. I'm 100% correct again, fat slob...

Don't know what else the word "draconian" can be referring to in your lament. Don't care either.

[FatSlob]

12. As usual, don't let facts get in the way of your opinions.

You never do. Thank you for advancing the gun-rights cause.

[MrBenchley]

13. Gee, fat slob...I wasn't the one crying about a bill he hadn't seen...

or trying to pretend that it represents some sort of "draconian" tyranny....

[CO Liberal]

22. To Settle This, I Went to www.dictionary.com...

...and looked up the definitions of "draconian" and "tyrant":

* * * * *

draconian - a. Pertaining to Draco, a famous lawgiver of Athens, 621 b.c.

Draconian code, or Draconian laws, a code of laws made by Draco. Their measures were so severe that they were said to be written in letters of blood; hence, any laws of excessive rigor.

* * * * *

ty•rant

1. An absolute ruler who governs without restrictions.

2. A ruler who exercises power in a harsh, cruel manner.

3. An oppressive, harsh, arbitrary person.

* * * * *

So it would stand to reason that a tyrant would enforce or advance draconian laws. Hence, FatSlob, you called John Kerry a tyrant.

[MrBenchley]

23. And below he omits part of the actual bill...

to try and pretend his dishonest point is valid...

[CO Liberal]

25. Standard Pro-Gun Modus Operandi......

Conceal, condense, and confuse......

[MrBenchley]

26. Without denial, distortion and outright deception

there is no RKBA cause...

[FatSlob]

8. A possible banned shotgun.

This could be banned. Sick.
A relative of mine used one of these to win the State Skeet Championship and to be named a three time All-American.

[MrBenchley]

11. "Boo hoo hoo! Not my poor widdle gun! Oh, boo hoo hoo!"

[TX-RAT]

14. How do you figure the 1100 will be banned?

[FatSlob]

15. Could be banned:

The 1100 has been procured by the Federal Gov't for law enforcement use. It could therefore be considered to be non-sporting and be banned.

[TX-RAT]

16. But was it designed for military use?

[FatSlob]

17. No, and it doesn't matter.

"...a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event."

[TX-RAT]

20. It specifically says designed.

According to your edit.

[Romulus]

21. it's both

if a firearm was designed per military contract or something, I think that would count as "specifically designed" and therefore automatically banned as the law is written.

If a firearm was "procured" (meaning purchased) because it was deemed useful for law enforcement purposes, that firearm would be presumed banned.

It's banned because it's presumed NOT to be "particularly" suitable for sporting use BECAUSE it was seen as being usefule for law enforcement; As for getting it off the banned list, the law specifically says that merely being able to use it for sporting purposes isn't good enough to get it off the banned list.

In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm
procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency
is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and
a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes
solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.

[MrBenchley]

19. Funny how somebody omitted the words

"rebuttable presumption" isn't it?

It's almost as if somebody's actually deliberately trying to distort a bill proposed by prominent Democrats...including our presidential candidate.

[Romulus]

18. The bill also removes the so-called "protected list" of firearms

Bill text:

SEC. 5. REPEAL OF CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS.

Section 922(v)(3) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking `(3)' and all that follows through the end of the first sentence and inserting the following:

`(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm that--

`(A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, level, or slide action;

`(B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or

`(C) is an antique firearm.'.



$$922(v) currently reads as follows (the bill removes the part that is underlined):


(v)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to manufacture,

transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.

(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer

of any semiautomatic assault weapon otherwise lawfully possessed

under Federal law on the date of the enactment of this subsection.

(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to -

(A) any of the firearms, or replicas or duplicates of the

firearms, specified in Appendix A to this section, as such

firearms were manufactured on October 1, 1993;

(B) any firearm that -

(i) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever, or slide

action;

(ii) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or

(iii) is an antique firearm;


I distinctly remember recently commenting on the illusory "protection" that list had supposedly granted to non-AWB firearms. . .

[FeebMaster]

24. Well it goes really well with that ammunition ban

they tried to pass back on Super Tuesday.

[Wickerman]

27. LOCKING

Don't post crap like this disparaging the Democratic nominee without a freaking link.

I would say that I am shocked and dismayed, but I am not; only dismayed.