Anybody see the video of the bank robbers firing machine guns at police

[MSgt213]

Thanks to NRA they can have those fine weapons. They just showed it on CNBC. Anybody find a link please post it I'm looking for one too.

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. You're quite mistaken.

Machine guns have been very strictly regulated since 1934, and are not legal for private ownership. You are obviously one of those people who has NO IDEA what the so-called "assault weapons ban" actually did.

[MSgt213]

2. I know the assault weapon ban doesn't cover machine guns.

I also know that you can still obtain and own a machine gun despite strict regulation since 1934 and be in compliance with the law. A machine gun is a gun that fires rapidly and repeatedly. It doesn't have to be water cooled and belt fed and look like the ones Rambo carries in the movies.

[Spider Jerusalem]

3. It's EXTREMELY difficult to obtain a machine gun legally.

You have to obtain a class 3 firearms licence, which is expensive and requires an extensive backgroung check conducted by the BATF. And pay a rather steep tax on top of that. You're not likely to see criminals with LEGAL machine guns.

[Buster43]

14. You are only partially correct...

Anybody here can own a National Firearms Act (NFA) weapon providing you live in a state that doesn't prohibit them (CA, MA, etc.). And that your criminal history is clean. What happens is this; you want a full auto weapon, you go to a NFA (Class III) dealer. Fill out a ton of paperwork as well as fingerprints, pay $200 for the tax stamp (non-refundable), the dealer sends all the paperwork off to BATFE with the endorsement from your police chief, or Sherrif, or DA, etc. Then you wait, wait and wait some more, sometimes up to 6 months for the director of BATFE to endorse the request. Once that happens, the paperwork is sent back to the dealer who calls the buyer to pick up the gun. The paperwork follows the gun and it is illegal to take it out of state unless you BATFE approval.

What those chuckleheads in LA did was illegally convert AK 47's to full auto. The cops were outgunned and some literally went to a gun store nearby where the dealer actually loaned them some semi-auto, high powered AR-15's.

And someone here said they consider a revolver the same as a NFA weapon? That is the most ludicrous statement I have ever heard. I defy anybody here to find where a LEGALLY owned NFA weapon was used in a crime since 1934.

[MrSandman]

28. Links???

What those chuckleheads in LA did was illegally convert AK 47's to full auto.

[Buster43]

47. I don't have

any links. At the time it was widely reported by the media that those weapons used were illegally converted. It is exceptionally easy, that one with basic gunsmithing knowledge can do. I can easily convert ANY semi-auto rifle to full auto.

[Factoid]

54. Calling you out on this.

It is considerably more difficult to convert a semi-automatic rifle like an SAR-1 (AK clone) and AR-15 to fully automatic, than the general public realizes, and it takes a bit more than "basic gunsmithing knowledge", it also takes quite a bit of machining.

As it it also Completely Legal to describe HOW to do this, I'm asking you here: How do you do this? Because if you say "file down the sear", I'm going to laugh heartily at you.

At any rate, what I heard from law enforcement was that the weapons were smuggled in from Mexico.

I appologize if my post comes off as a touch arrogent, It's just annoying when everyone and their brother says they know "how to convert" an SKS/AK/AR-15 into a machine gun, but when asked how they actually do it, they respond with "Umn it's illegal to talk about" (it is not), or "You file down the sear that catches the hammer!".

All that talk does is further confuse the issue of "assault weapons", and make people think that an AR-15 is a machine gun waiting for someone to flip the "Secret switch", when in reality you have to replace the entire bolt carrier, the hammer, the safety, mill the reciever to accept an entirely new secondary fully automatic sear, and then TIME the thing to function correctly, or have the risk of a SCLID (Sudden Catastrophic Load Induced Disassembly).

It's practically easier to MAKE a new gun (STEN style) if you have the machinery to do it, and the hard part about a sten isn't making it fully automatic, it's KEEPING it from being fully automatic.

But I'm just a non-republican gunsmith. what do I know.

[Buster43]

56. I am

an NFA dealer and know what I am talking about.

[Factoid]

57. Which is why

You are unable to describe exactly how.

Sorry, but I smell bs.

[MrSandman]

59. Or even remotely..

unable to describe exactly how

[DoNotRefill]

64. Ummm....

ever hear of the "shoelace trick"?

Yes, indeed, that's a trick where you can take almost any non-.22 semi-automatic rifle and convert it to "full auto" without even disassembling the rifle, and with no modifications that are permanent to the rifle, and using only a single shoestring.

Honestly, I'm surprised that some enterprising 02/07 SOT didn't serialize a bunch of shoestrings in 1986 prior to May 19th. If they ever have another amnesty, I'm going to file papers on a bunch of shoestrings.

[-..__...]

69. What's next...

banning "bump firing" or electric tooth brush motors.

[puttothesword]

68. well....

I know how to do it on a mini-14. it takes just making sure that secondary sear (or whatever your terminology is for it) doesn't catch. i figure.... one of those little plastic wire wrap things could do it... a friend of mine did it with a drill and a stiff peice of wire (but he was of course, insane)

granted, I certainly wouldn't want to do it (slam fire, yum) but it could be done.

as for the SKS... hell, i've heard of older ones (usually beat to crap) going full auto because the sear nose angle got all fubar. again, slam fire and knowing the sks i'm sure they'd fall the hell apart after one full stripper of full auto.

as for AKs. not worth the effort. unless of course you have access to a CNC machine, in which case....

and yeah, sten parts kit, a dremel, some muffler pipe and rivets would be insanely easier (and no, I've never done it but i've seen it done)

[Factoid]

70. Yeh, but slam-fire isn't...

Controlled full automatic. It destroys the gun, usually pretty quickly. I've filled out a few blue-forms in the past from idiots doing this and bringing it in to "Get it fixed".

[slackmaster]

58. A now-deceased San Diego County Sheriff's deputy told me otherwise

He said the AKs were imported illegally from China, and were unmodified selective-fire weapons.

I have no proof, but I have never found anything verifiable to contradict it either.

[MrSandman]

63. I have heard that also...

Unlike Columbine, I could find little info on the weapons through Google. Didnt't try really hard.

I did find that they allegedly had an automatic Bushmaster. I assume that one is stolen from LE or military.

[Romulus]

6. "rapidly and repeatedly"

just like a revolver . . .

[Extremist]

25. Actually...

A fully-automatic rifle is not necessarily a machine gun, which have also been illegal since the 30's. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

[Factoid]

55. According to the BATFE,

Any weapon that can fire more than one round per trigger pull is considered a "Machine Gun" under the 1934 National Firearms Act.



From www.atf.gov:


(b) Machinegun. -- The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

[Marxdem]

4. Criminals commit crimes

Criminals won't stop commiting crimes because of a law. Think about it.

[aden_nak]

5. Prohibition on guns doesn't work. It's that simple.

[DS1]

7. It'll never work well enough in America

Too much saturation - people think they can't live without em

[goju]

8. How did the NRA make that possible?

Im not following your reasoning here. Please elaborate.

[RoeBear]

9. There is an old saying...

"Sometimes it's better to remain quiet and appear a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

[NorthernSpy]

10. where did this happen, MSgt213?

I took a minute to find a link, but came up empty. Do you know where this incident occurred?

[-..__...]

11. Old news.

He's in a tizzy over the North LA bank robbery (1997).

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1997/year.ender/video/05.robbery.html

:eyes:

[TX-RAT]

13. Just happen in TX yesterday i believe.

Running shoot out, through the streets. Happened in Richardson, 1 suspect caught in Lubbock. Video shows full-auto weapons.

[iverglas]

17. and armed with that info

I ask google for texas bank robbery ... and click on the "news" link ... and voilà.

In fact, asking google for bank robbery alone produced a "news" link at which the third story, following an event in upstate NY and an event in San Diego, and right before the event in Singapore, was the one in question -- and that link led to several articles on the web, including NBC links with video.

http://news.google.ca/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&tab=nn&ncl=http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp%3FS%3D2540366&filter=0

Damn, that was hard.

One report referred to a "high powered assault rifle". After having a couple of the links crash my overworked netscape, I'm not going to look into it any farther, or allege any facts or express any opinion about anything.

[-..__...]

32. You, "armed" ?

B-)

[FatSlob]

62. Oh dear.

:wow:

[slackmaster]

45. I just saw one of the police videos last night

From inside a squad car, getting strafed.

As I said in my other response, it did resemble a scene from The A-Team - Lots of lead flying and holes punched but nobody hit AFAIK.

[TX-RAT]

52. I believe they said 5 patrol cars were disabled.

Police never returned fire, due to bystanders. That had to have been scary.

[-..__...]

12. I'll have to agree with you on one thing...

they are "fine weapons". Too bad I'll never be able to afford one. :(

[alwynsw]

16. Fine hell!

I love to have an old, not-so-fine Sten. There's just something about it. It might be a little tough to rationalize a huge price tag for a gun that cost about 6 bucks to produce, but I loved the one I shot at Knob Creek a couple of years ago. Damn thing rattled like a Rambler on a coal haul road, but it was a blast to shoot.

I know, too many WW II movies as a kid.

[MrSandman]

27. Haven't heard that one for awhile...

rattled like a Rambler on a coal haul road, but it was a blast to shoot.

Sounds like the M3.

[-..__...]

30. Even more "thrusts per squeeze".

I've never had the opportunity to attend one of the big full-auto shoots.

There's one run in Western MA every year and another in ME. I know if I went I'd probably drop half a weeks paycheck burning up ammo with guns I don't own.

A buddy of mine who lives in NH bought a 1928 Thompson not too long ago (he also has an M-16A1 and two MAC-11s). I talked him into getting a sound suppressor for one of the MACS, not that it took much convincing. :)

[alwynsw]

35. Like this?

[-..__...]

36. Not quite.

A 16"+ barrel (even on a semi-auto clone), just looks so wrong... more NFA bull shit. :(

My buds has the horizontal foregrip, no cutts compensator and no drum mag.

[alwynsw]

37. We ordered the 10.5" barrel for Mrs. alwynsw's Thonpson.

IT came with the 16" barrel and looked like shit.

[-..__...]

39. Cool. A circumcised Thompson.

:)

I wish I could have 10.5" (MA says it's a no-go). :(

[alwynsw]

40. That's the great irony of it all.

The things are (I think) manufactured in MA. We definitely ordered it from Kahr in MA. I love the hyprocrisy: we can make 'em and sell then to other states from here, but our residents can't have one. What a load of unadulterated horse shit!

edited to add this for all gun grabbing lawmakers:

[NorthernSpy]

71. The big machine-gun shoot in Maine is history...

They held the last one a couple of years ago, I think. The event was hugely popular, but it got a bit out of hand:

"The event has grown so drastically that safety has become a very big issue," Sturk said. "My worst nightmare is someone getting seriously hurt."

There have been some mishaps over the years stemming from the shoot in the town's gravel pit, which included an errant bullet allegedly from he shoot that struck a house the first year of the event.

The fact that there have been minor mishaps every year for the past four years is cause for concern, Sturk said.

(...)

Little opposition was shown by residents about the annual event. And those few families who lived in the immediate area of the gravel pit received overnight stays at their favorite motel to avoid the noise, courtesy of the society.

Even still, Sturk said he found it hard to inconvenience people. "This is suppose to be a good time, not an inconvenience for anybody."

http://www.dover-foxcroft.org/index.asp?Type=B_PR&SEC={42EFC860-2AAC-480F-8DE7-E52BA40EA223}&DE={2C244314-6C01-4CA9-9BCD-F3F433FF7D0A}


A lot people were disappointed about this. The event was very affordable: just a few bucks for an adult ($6 admission in 1996, for instance), and kids could attend for $3 each.

And there was a big tracer/pyrotechnic display at night. Very romantic.

[alwynsw]

15. To add to some other posts

Take the time to find out what it takes to legally own a full auto or select fire weapon in the U.S., then get back to us about people owning them.

This sort of ignorance (or deception) does liberals no good in the public eye.

[Buster43]

22. I did, posted above....

The problem with select fire weapons being so expensive is the "wise men" on the hill threw a rider in the 1986 Gun Owners Protection Bill that Reagan signed into law. It stated that no full auto weapons made after 1986 could be placed on the Federal Register for private ownership. Suddenly, the supply of legally owned NFA weapons becomes finite. Prices skyrocket and ordinary people who would never buy one suddenly took an interest in them for their investment purpose as well as historic value. And that left those "wise men" on the hill scratching their collective heads in wonder. THEY created the economy for them. A Thompson SMG which could be had for about $800 before '86 now costs in excess of $10,000. So if both Dem and Rep pols will stop meddling with gun control, the interest level would be low and transfers of these weapons would be low as well. Human nature being what it is, when someone says you won't be able to buy that anymore, what do they do? They rush right out and buy it. Nobody is going to tell me what I can and can't own.

[iverglas]

23. "human nature"

"Human nature being what it is, when someone says you won't be able to buy that anymore, what do they do? They rush right out and buy it. Nobody is going to tell me what I can and can't own."

Amazingly, quite a lot of us have matured beyond the adolescent stage (or is it the terrible twos?) in which individuals do things simply because they are told they may not.

Being told I may not own, oh, another person has just not yet made me rush out and buy one.

Damn. Prohibition seems to have worked rather well in that case.

But I can also assure you that being told I may not own quite a lot of other things just wouldn't result in me (or most people I know) rushing right out and buying them. I just don't have much use for a tiger or a car made out of used bottles or winter coats with four sleeves ... or much desire to spend my money on 'em ... so ban away, and I just won't be dashing out to stock up.

Some people actually have reasons for the things they do, and if there's no good reason for doing it, they often actually don't do it.

[goju]

31. Amazingly, you never fail to miss the point

Do you suppose the poster was referring to those items for which they had some need/desire? Or, did you honestly think he was talking about coats with 4 sleeves and fuzzy purple socks, or whatever other random items you want to fabricate?

Hmm, I dont know but I thought the point was quite simple to understand. If Canada were to outlaw computers (probably not out of the question, all things considered) what would you do? I know, you are a fine upstanding citizen that would never break the law, but honestly, what would you do? If you were smart, you would rush out and buy 10, or as many as you could afford. Wouldnt you?

On to the slavery "analogy". I admire your tenacity, but I seriously question your sensibility. Unless of course, you werent actually equating gun ownership with slavery? I cant imagine any reasonable person trying to pass off that pile of crud, but whenever I think Ive seen it all, someone just comes along and surprises the hell out of me.

"Some people actually have reasons for the things they do, and if there's no good reason for doing it, they often actually don't do it."

Now there are 25 words that couldnt possibly contribute less to this discussion. But as I said, just when I think Ive seen it all.....

[Retired AF Dem]

33. She is just looking for someone to play along with her

so far about the ony taker has been you. :)

[goju]

34. I do wonder sometimes

Attacking at every semantic opportunity but never addressing the actual meat of the post. Never actually stating a position, or supporting one. Never even starting a thread, only attacking others. And patrolling threads making subtle and not so sublte accusations of "freeping" by anyone with a low post count. I wonder about the agenda sometimes...and other times its clear as a bell.

[iverglas]

50. any more false statements you'd like to make?

"Never actually stating a position, or supporting one."

All I have to do is provide one instance of what you assert does not exist, in order to disprove your negative. Do you really want to bet that it can't be done?

"Never even starting a thread, only attacking others."

That was easy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=90521

Just the most recent one. You remember how this forum isn't really only about firearms and for firearms afficionados?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=73476

... or only for/about USAmericans?

I mean, heck, imagine the outcry if I started a thread about something in the US ... and yet consider the threads about Canada, the UK, Australia ..., started by non-Canadians, non-Brits, non-Australians ...

Frankly, I'd be embarrassed to be responsible for starting many of the threads I see in this place. And not everyone has a burning need to see his/her name in lights.


"And patrolling threads making subtle and not so sublte accusations of 'freeping' by anyone with a low post count."

Aww. The champion of the underdog. If you'd care to stray away from vague allegations of wrongdoing and identify an actual instance in which I have made any kind of an accusation at all against someone who is not now resting six feet under, do feel free. Oh, and you might not want to, er, jump the gun. Subsequent events might just overtake you.


"I wonder about the agenda sometimes...and other times its clear as a bell."

You should be more generous with your insights and info. Don't bogart them. Be more like moi; share your vast storehouse of knowledge and wisdom.

[iverglas]

48. he thinks he can, he thinks he can

"I admire your tenacity, but I seriously question your sensibility. Unless of course, you werent actually equating gun ownership with slavery? I cant imagine any reasonable person trying to pass off that pile of crud, but whenever I think Ive seen it all, someone just comes along and surprises the hell out of me."

I in no way admire your persistence, and I have no questions at all about your sincerity and candour. Unless, of course, you weren't actually saying that I was equating firearms ownership with slavery. I can't imagine any decent person trying to pass off that pile of crud, but me, I never presume to think that I've seen it all, having learned never to be surprised around here.


"If Canada were to outlaw computers (probably not out of the question, all things considered) what would you do? I know, you are a fine upstanding citizen that would never break the law, but honestly, what would you do? If you were smart, you would rush out and buy 10, or as many as you could afford. Wouldnt you?"

And if it isn't the damned craziest thing ... but I actually have a reason for owning computers. I apologize for not quoting what I was responding to in full, so that perhaps you would not have missed the point:

So if both Dem and Rep pols will stop meddling with gun control, the interest level would be low and transfers of these weapons would be low as well. Human nature being what it is, when someone says you won't be able to buy that anymore, what do they do? They rush right out and buy it. Nobody is going to tell me what I can and can't own.

The interest level in and transfers of computers aren't exactly low right now, are they then?

Winter coats with four arms was an excellent analogy. I don't need 'em, I don't want 'em, and outlawing 'em just is not going to prompt me to rush out and stock up on 'em.

And oh, that clever little assertion about the foreseeability of Canada outlawing computers, that was just so cute! I'm sure you didn't know that in recent years, Canadians have used the internet in higher proportions than any other country: http://broadband.gc.ca/pub/program/NBTF/chapter2.html
or had the highest level of broadband penetration of any G-7 country (second only to Korea). Or were aware of the enormous program, now being wound down, to equip schools and libraries and other public access points throughout the country with broadband access (and, of course, computers). Among many other things that I am equally sure you don't know, and have no desire to learn.


"Some people actually have reasons for the things they do, and if there's no good reason for doing it, they often actually don't do it."
"Now there are 25 words that couldnt possibly contribute less to this discussion. But as I said, just when I think Ive seen it all....." "... I still haven't managed to see sense", if you'll permit me to finish your sentence for you.

In a discussion of whether prohibition provides people with the reason they need to do something -- if we can agree that, human nature being what it is, people just do not do things without having a reason to do them -- a reminder that people don't do things unless they have reasons to do them, facetiously framed as it was, seems to be rather precisely à propos.

[Buster43]

49. The only

reason prohibition worked is the $200 tax stamp that was to be affixed to the paperwork upon transfer of the weapon. In the early '30's, that was a lot of money. Nowadays, people drop $200 buying groceries.

Since I have a license to deal in NFA weapons, I am in a unique position. Even during the economic downturns, I still get inundated with calls for NFA weapons.

A few years ago, I did an estate sale for the widow of a WW2 Vet who had legally brought back from Europe numerous different types of full auto weapons. I sold for her a fully functional German MG42, MG38, MP-28, MP-38, MP-40 and I kept the ultra rare MP-44 or STG-44, which looks remarkably like todays AK-47 (Mikhail Kalashnikov swears his weapon is an original design), BAR's, Thompsons, M2 Grease Guns, Browning .30 machine gun and a .50 BMG. When the sale was said and done, she had a nice tidy sum that turned out to be their retirement fund.

Again, human nature being what it is. And it has nothing to do with hitting puberty.

[rainbow4321]

18. The TX bank robbery?

It happened a few days ago--they are called the Takeover Bandits. They robbed a bank in Richardson, TX took off into my city-- Plano,-- shot up FIVE cop cars to smithereens using their AK 47's. Carjacked THREE other cars, abandoning one attempt cuz they could not get the baby's carseat out of the car. And the cops didn't fire a single shot for fear of hitting bystanders...so the bad guys got away. They DID catch one the day before yesterday.
The chase led to over near my daughter's high school and it was lunchtime for the kids so there were a bunch of them out driving around. The cops mistook a few of the teenage boys for the robbers, stopped their car and demanded to know where the money was, where the guns were, where the carjacked cars were...had the teens shaking in their shoes.
All this and unfortunately we will still have Texans down here defending guns and more guns... not ALL Texans, just the LGP's---or better known as the "limited-gene-pool" population that we have down here!

[slackmaster]

19. Sounds like a scene from the A-Team

The one where they robbed the Bank of Hanoi.

[DonP]

20. "defending guns and more guns"

I'm curious as to which particular laws and regulations you feel would have kept these already illegal weapons out of the hands of the criminals?

Or at least intimidated them into not using them for their bank robberies and hostage taking?

More gun control seems to be the knee jerk solution to the problem every time there is another robbery using anything beyond a revolver.

How about we blame the criminals for what happened and stop trying to restrict legal gun owners. Lock the SOB's up for about a thousand years, with no possibility for parole, for using a gun in the commission of a felony.

<sarcasm on> Nah, let's just keep on losing elections over stupid stuff like gun control. It's been working so well for us so far. <sarcasm off>

[iverglas]

21. yikes

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13317510&BRD=1426&PAG=461&dept_id=525682&rfi=6

Plano Parkway, Jupiter Road -- I've been there!

http://mq-mapgend.websys.aol.com:80/mqmapgend?MQMapGenRequest=FDR2dmwjDE%3byt29%26FDJnci4Jkqj%2cMMCJ%3aHOEvq%3bab29wy%3a%29fz0hry%3a%26%40%24%3a%26%40t%3aqyb%3al4b%3aTD%15JFE%3aHOHQJ%3bab29ft%3a%29fz0hrz%3a%26%40%24%3a%26%40%24x9%40

Stayed at the Holiday Inn and ate at the Wendy's they practically drove right by on the expressway, shopped at the Colin Creek Mall ...

Quite the incident; the link at the top has about the most complete description I've found:

At 10:20 a.m. Thursday, Richardson police responded to a 9-1-1 call of a bank robbery at the American First National Bank, located in the 400 block of N. Greenville Ave., just a few blocks from Richardson police headquarters.

Two men, wearing masks and dark clothing and armed with AK-47-style assault weapons robbed the bank in a "take-over style," Perlich said. Richardson police do not know yet how much money was taken in the robbery.

The suspects fled in a dark brown Honda, which police believe was driven by a third man involved in the robbery.

The robbers then abandoned the Honda in the 300 block of Trellis Lane, located near the intersection of W. Park Boulevard and Coit Road in Plano. ...

[alwynsw]

38. And I've been to Dealy Plaza.

Your point is?

[-..__...]

41. But, did you eat at Wendys when you were there?

Did you sit in the same booth that Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby shared?

That's the key element.

[alwynsw]

42. Nah. I just went to the book suppository.

heh heh heh

[slackmaster]

44. Thanks, Private Snowball

[alwynsw]

51. YES SIR!!!!!!!!!!

My new smiley in honor of Joker.

[MrSandman]

43. ROFLMAO...

I want a new keyboard for that.

[iverglas]

53. "Your point is?"

I thought it was obvious. Poor domesticated Canadian has to get vicarious thrills by reading about wild and woolly goings-on in places where she once (twice, actually) hung out.

Actually, got them non-vicariously once. No firearms in this anecdote, sorry. Back just before your 1984 election (and just after ours), I spend a couple of weeks in Chicago, staying with a Trotskyist librarian I'd met through the NYR personals. (Don't ask about his ex-girlfriend.) Late one night after we returned from a party ... well, I'd returned early, having been bored; I took a cab, he took the subway, and he got mugged, first time in his life. Anyhow, he got home, and the doorbell rang, and we thought it was his ex-girlfriend, so I hid in the bathroom and he went down to the apartment building entrance, and he came running back upstairs and said "get down there! I have to call 911!" So I did, and there was a guy lying in the corner of the lawn by the entrance, in the shadow out of the streetlight light, moaning, so I tried to figure out what was wrong with him. No obvious punctures or amputations, no foreign objects protruding from his body. I crouched there by him in the wet grass in the dark, in my stocking feet, and eventually cops and ambulance people arrived, and I went back inside ... leaving bloody footprints all across the white tile floor and up to the apartment.

Next morning, we slept late, and when we got up one of the roommates announced that the cops had called looking for us, but he'd said he didn't know us, because he thought it might have something to do with all the pot in the apartment. I did eventually talk to them, and it turns out that the guy had had his head smashed in with a baseball bat in some contretemps among the dealers who had recently moved into the basement apartment and split around the time they left him there. I never did hear whether he survived or not, but I had the impression that it was going to be not.

And then I had the thrill of seeing Bush I (while he was still the Dauphin) and Ronnie Raygun speak to a few thousand adoring fans at a hockey arena. I'd got to see some torchlight parade thing involving Gerry and Walter just as I arrived in town.

You folks sure do put on a show for the rubberneckers!

Anyhow, in point of fact, I was just reacting the way most people would to hear that something rather horribly exciting had happened in a place where they once sat, the facts about that something being the actual substance of my post. Maybe it's me ... the day after I took the Metrorail to the airport and flew out of DC a few years ago, a plane hit a bridge over the Potomac and a metro train derailed.

(edit to add: http://www.roadstothefuture.com/AirFlorida_SubwayDis.html
the disasters in question that I did indeed get a vicarious shiver from)

If Kennedy had been assassinated after you visited Dealy Plza, you might have a tale to tell ...

[alwynsw]

60. Actually, he was assinated between my visits.

As for your ramblings, this still fits:

[Extremist]

24. Not quite...

Machine guns have been illegal since the 1930's. And the NRA is one of the most complacent gun supporters out there.

I can give you several examples of how guns lower crime.

[iverglas]

26. ah, it's another one of us dummies

"Machine guns have been illegal since the 1930's."

Will no one straighten him/her out?

The tale just twists so much and so often in the telling.

[RegexReader]

29. and thanks to the war on drugs

we've got all this krap infiltrating in with the :smoke: that is coming up. Just wait until the Moslems start bringing in that 300 tons of explosives or those 6,000 missiles. :argh: We need to ban them so that they don't bring them in.


RegexReader
$USA =~ s/Republican/Democrat/ig;

[slackmaster]

46. Welcome RegexReader!

Did you know that automatic weapons have been heavily regulated in this country since 1934? Or that the missiles and explosives are heavily regulated as well?

[michaelj1978]

61. Guns are to Criminals as Beer is to DUI's

It's not the guns or the beer that is the problem fella's. It's the people who are in possession of them and make bad choices. I could own a full auto, or any gun for that reason, but it doesn't make me a criminal, just like I could drink a 12 pack of beer at home and I haven't done anything wrong. Don't blame it on guns, blame it on society and criminals.

[anonymous44]

65. guns are EVIL

im scared of them. they look evil. i feel that our society shouldn't allow anybody have a gun.

[iverglas]

66. and yet!

guns are EVIL
im scared of them. they look evil. i feel that our society shouldn't allow anybody have a gun.

you have guns:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=91118#91133

Doesn't your head hurt? Don't you have anything better to do with your time?

[anonymous44]

67. lol

that's the mentality of most anti-gun people