Are there any non right wing gunsights?

[catmandu57]

Last night my stepson wanted to find a gun auction that he had seen earlier, I found a couple of sites that were close, but, it seemed like almost every place I went into were singing the praises of the pigboy, and other crazies.
I want to find a clean, sane gun page, for him, and I'm thinking it may not be a bad idea to have something here for us as well.

[izzie]

1. By the way if you can buy all this stuff over the Internet how---

come they were so up tight yesterday on C-span about getting wine on line?

[MrSandman]

2. Only the commercial sites...

Some of the gun forums are divided so one can avoid most of the political content. Since they are sights about guns, the politics are often limited to one or two forums. Not always the case, and occasionaly there is some spread.

[Redneck Socialist]

3. None of my gun sights have shown any political leanings

one way or another. Though my model 94 shoots a little to the left. :P

Many gun forums keep the political stuff segregated into separate forums, but yeah most of the ones I've found are heavily populated with right wing loons.

[slackmaster]

4. Many of the sites are non-denominational

They tolerate a wide range of views, though the people who go to firearm-related sites tend to be on the right.

It's a lot easier to get kicked off of a political forum like DU for having "unacceptable" views than it is to get kicked off of a gun discussion board.

[CarinKaryn]

10. Nice slam against DU

If you're not happy here just go away. Why work to tear us down from the inside.
Now spend 3 or 4 posts explaining that that wasn't "really" a DU/Dem slam.

[slackmaster]

11. Not a slam, just a fact

This is a political forum and certain attitudes are simply not tolerated here.

[w4rma]

15. I was banned from a gun site by a whacko right-wing moderator.

Even tho I am very pro-gun.

What you say simply isn't true, slackmaster. Most of those gun sites have right-wing moderators who don't tolerate criticism of Republicans or Bush on their support of the Patriot Act and other legislation that takes away American's freedoms.

To get banned all you have to do is run afoul of a single Bushbot moderator on those boards.

[Wickerman]

41. Slackmaster is correct

It is easy to get banned here. All it takes is a a few conservative posts. This is a site for Liberals, Democrats, and other Progressives. That fact is clearly stated in the membership rules that each and everyone of you read when you signed on to post here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html#welcome

[arkie dem]

54. Damned proud to say I was banned from a RW

Firearm/Hunting site.

Most firearm sites aren't tolerant of opposing views.

[CarinKaryn]

30. We promote diversity and free expression of ideas

SlackMASTER, you owe the DU mods an apology.

[slackmaster]

33. I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of, disagree with you there

We (DU) promote (and tolerate) diversity and free expression of ideas up to a point.

During the Presidential campaign I saw people banned for disregarding repeated admonitions to stop openly criticizing our Presidential candidate. I can't recall ever seeing anyone banned from a firearm-related forum for openly criticizing George W. Bush. In fact many staunch 2nd Amendment advocates consider him a traitor for pledging to renew the "assault weapons" ban even though he probably didn't really mean it. He has done little to reverse some import restrictions enacted as Executive Orders by Bush I. The most strident RKBA advocates do not consider Republicans to be very much better in that regard than Democrats. Many of them are registered as Libertarians or independents for that reason.

Although there was much tolerance for criticisms of Senator Kerry before he was the official nominee and after the polls closed, between those times there was an IMO arbitrary crackdown on open criticism of him.

FWIW I agreed with that policy, openly pledged to comply with it and did so; but that alone is enough to falsify any claim that DU's tolerance of free expression is absolute. And I know for a fact there are unwritten rules over and above the proscriptions on using racial slurs, etc. that get people banned. There are certain things one cannot say on DU even though they technically don't violate the posting rules.

If you want concrete examples I'll be glad to PM you a couple, but will not post them in open discussion for obvious reasons.

[CarinKaryn]

35. Sure, why don't you do that.

"If you want concrete examples I'll be glad to PM you a couple, but will not post them in open discussion for obvious reasons."

[slackmaster]

36. Check your IM

Find the Forbidden Sentences there.

:D

Not one but TWO personal opinions (disputable facts) that are not acceptable to state on DU.

[solinvictus]

38. DU and RKBA...

Try starting a discussion on the 2nd Amendment anywhere but here and see how quickly its moved.

[Wickerman]

42. Yes, much like that 500 post monstrosity that was moved to Gungeon

Lately there have been numerous threads that are posted and have been left for over 24 hours (which is a lifetime in many other fora) before moving here. By the end of 24 hours the thread is inevitably reduced to regular Gungeon posters - it makes sense to move it here.

[Squatch]

5. Gunbroker.com?

Just stay out of their forums.

[Squatch]

6. "Non right wing gunsights" here you go...

Remington Model 700 BDL (left hand) with left wing gunsights.

LOL

[arkie dem]

7. www.accuratereloading. com

is a good one. Stay away from the political forum.

[Lefty48197]

8. Apparently not

"Go to their website, but stay out of the forum"

Sounds like a way of saying, this is a place where right wingers gather to attack and slander Democrats. No thanks. I stay away from the Rush Limbaugh show for the same reasons. Someone asked about a week ago if there was a gun rights group that wasn't a branch of the Republican party. If we were to get that group "off of the ground" then it would likely be the only source for proper gun education sans the right wing bullshit.

[DoNotRefill]

9. try...

http://www.pinkpistols.org

[slackmaster]

12. TAKE COVER!

:argh:

[Lefty48197]

52. That's funny. The pink pistols seem to endorse a bunch of Libertartians

Contrast that to the endless string of Republican endorsements coming from the NRA Dept. of Propoganda. The Pink Pistols have apparently only endorsed a few candidates across the country. That too can be contrasted with the rock solid pro-Republican endorsements from the NRA. I don't know if any conclusions can be drawn about the races where the Pink Pistols have NOT endorsed a candidate. (as to whether or not they support the Democrat or the Republican)

[Squatch]

13. Here's one from England.

http://www.hollandandholland.com/

Nice stuff there.

[Squatch]

16. And one from Germany...

Damn fine rifles.

http://www.blaser.de/english/index.html

[Squatch]

19. Another European make...

If you can't tell, I'm in the market for a nice rifle. Something in .338 or better.

[UpsideDownFlag]

20. good lordy, what would you shoot with a 338+ rifle??

bears?

[slackmaster]

23. Big bears are pretty tough animals

I think a .338 is appropriate.

[Squatch]

28. Actually moose and bears.

I'm buying some property up in Maine.

[slackmaster]

14. HEY EVERYBODY! I FOUND ONE!!!

A genuine non right-wing gun discussion forum

[Columbia]

32. Guess no one cares

Nice try though. :)

[iverglas]

50. missed the mark in two directions

First, one person asked for a non-right-wing site; non-response to a response, by anyone else, is not an indication of whether anyone else cares. (Even if it is, my response to your response would be: who cares?)

Second, this forum (the site linked to in the post to which you responded) is not a "gun site". It is a site for the discussion of "gun rights {sic}" and "gun control", not for the discussion of guns, which is what the original poster was requesting.

I really thought we'd sorted that one out ...

[Columbia]

53. Yup

Second, this forum (the site linked to in the post to which you responded) is not a "gun site". It is a site for the discussion of "gun rights {sic}" and "gun control", not for the discussion of guns, which is what the original poster was requesting.

Yes, your lobbying has been quite effective in that regard.

[iverglas]

55. ah, methinks you misoverestimate me

Yes, your lobbying has been quite effective in that regard.

I was long ago told, in very few fewer words, to shut up on the subject of what should and should not be discussed in the J/PS forum, and did so.

Whoever you might have to thank for the present reasonable state of affairs, I would regard myself as rather low on the list. But ssh, I'm happy to let it be thought that I am omnipotent, if you are.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

17. I doubt it.

Most people who enjoy killing lean pretty much right.

[slackmaster]

18. Nice fallacious argument

Guilt by association.

Owning guns != enjoying killing.

NEXT!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

21. Alright, why do you own a gun? Target shooting?

What are you practicing for?

The "Red Dawn?"

Or just the next great shot at a deer as it wanders under your deer stand?

Face it, there's just no good argument for killing things with a gun anymore.

[slackmaster]

22. Hold your straw horses there, Tom Yossarian Joad

Target shooting? What are you practicing for? The "Red Dawn?

I enjoy target shooting. It's challenging and fun! You should try it some time. The purpose of practicing at target shooting is to get better at target shooting.

I've had a little combat training. Target shooting does almost nothing to prepare a person to use a gun in a real fight. I'm not surprised that you don't understand it. People who haven't had any real training in fighting rarely do.

Or just the next great shot at a deer as it wanders under your deer stand?

I've never hunted deer or any other kind of animal but I'd like to try it some time, and I would eat anything I kill. How about you?

Face it, there's just no good argument for killing things with a gun anymore.

I've never killed anything with a gun but it's clear to me that hunting, varmint control, and self-defense are perfectly valid reasons for killing things with a gun or any other suitable weapon.

I collect guns because they're interesting and, when properly cared for, appreciate in value. If you don't like it, I say again "Tango Sierra". That's military speak for "tough shit". You can take your condescending attitude and put it where the sun never shines.

:nopity:

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

24. I've done it. 100/100 skeet.

I practiced to be a better dove and duck hunter.

I changed.
I own an 1876 Colt that belonged to my great GrandFather. We had a farm in Liberty Mo. It's in a museum now.


We were neighbors to the James family (yes, Jessie and Frank).


My Great Grandfather told me stories of killing "wetbacks."

Yeah. the West was wonderful. He also told me stories of being the first into the James house after the Pinkertons blew his mother's arm off and killed the baby brother.

History now, but blood in the dirt then,


I'm not some kind of a newbie or wet behind the ears liberal. I have lived and will live and unless you can trump experience over and above mine...

It's in a museum now.

[slackmaster]

25. Practicing for hunting birds is a far cry from "preparing for Red Dawn"

I won't try to top you with my highpower rifle scores. Suffice it to say I take some pride in my ability to go toe-to-toe with a stationary paper target, and recognize there's always room for improvement no matter what sport you choose.

My mom's geneaological resesearch has found some train robbers in my family too.

[Fire]

61. mixed feelings

If there was an even bigger right-wing take over complete with gestappo storm troopers what are you going to do to resist? Throw rocks? I have mixed feelings about the gun debate. I'm in favor of some gun control and believe the NRA is off their rockers but guns can have a good purpose. People need weapons sometimes.

[Columbia]

31. Do you enjoying eating?

If so, you are responsible for killing. Does that make you a right-winger?

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[catmandu57]

27. I'm still looking for a non political site

I'm not even qualifying it as good. Just somewhere that doesn't believe that the pigboy, ollie, and all the rest are god, and that the constitution continues past the second ammendment.
I'm not sure of the wisdom of buying a firearm for us, it's been years since I've owned and fired a gun.

[-..__...]

29. Are you familiar with Usenet/Newsgroups?

Check out rec.guns. It's moderated (I'll explain later); pretty cut and dry and to the point... no unreasonable arguing, flame wars, political screeds or Dem/Repub bashing. The downside of the moderation is that your post and any responses are scrutinized before they are posted. It could take a few hours to half a day before you see anything.

You can access and post to it through Google Groups if desired

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.guns

(although it's a major pain posting through Google, I'd suggest a dedicated Newsreader like Agent, or as an alternative, the Newsreader provided with Netscape/MSIE/Outlook).


OTOH, picture a webforum that's open to both DU'ers, Freepers and everyone and anyone in between and you have talk.politics.guns (like 90% of Usenet, there is no moderation at all). It's probably one of the most volatile newsgroups out there (and there's well over 100,000 of them).

Some current threads... :eyes:

"Chai Vang, backshooting cowardly Hmong"
"Gunlobby Advertises Fake Gun Rights - a PSYOP"
"Still Happy With Nazi Bush?"
"Declaration of Independence banned"
"With Kwesei Mfume, who needs the Klan??? Re: Memo to NAACP: Draft Bill Cosby"
"W is for Wimp - Bush, like all bullies, is a COWARD!"

[Wickerman]

43. Well, from your sample, half those thread starters are just fine

:)

[-..__...]

44. Sometimes they actually discuss firearms there!

Actually though, the whole newsgroup is one huge never ending flame war and it's been that way since I can remember (going back at least 11 years).

For awhile, TPG had one of the longest running threads in Usenet

"It's the guns, stupid!". I thank it lasted something like 3 or 4 years (that's for one thread).

[Wickerman]

49. lol

that is why we have an informal 200 post limit in the gungeon. Gawd, 3 or 4 years for one thread cries out for oversight - even on usenet!

[skippythwndrdog]

34. I think that cruffler is pretty non political.

www.cruffler.com

I haven't been there in some time, but I think they are fairly non-political. There doesn't seem to be a ton of politics (but there is some right wing stuff) at www.glocktalk.com and IIRC, www.xdtalk.com is mostly non-political

[slackmaster]

37. cruffler.com is a good site

That word always sounds like a type of pastry to me.

Mmmmmmmmm. Pastry.

[Buster43]

39. Try

www.gunsandammomag.com

They have a gun talk forum and a political forum. Stay out of the political forum and he should have a good time. The boards are moderated that if politics gets discussed in a gun talk forum, that discussion gets shut down in an instant and moved to the other board.

[Postmanx]

40. www.thefiringline.com

www.thefiringline.com

[Balen]

45. Not in the US

Just about every gun dealer has suffered before GW. Now they can only sing his praise.

[EDT]

46. Good luck

I wish there were. We need to separate gun control from the Democratic parties platform, it does more harm than good.

[Endangered Specie]

47. Thats like asking "are there any non right wing pro-life sites"

or "are there any non right wing homophobe sites".

Maybe you should look at that phrase a little more carefully, it almost suggest that the vehement pro-gun stance is an ardent right wing value
.
.
.
Maybe I'm, just drawing conclusions :shrug:

[Squatch]

48. Yes

[Van23]

51. Actually...

there is a group called Feminists for Life.

www.feministsforlife.com

I don't agree with them...I'm just aware that they exist.

[iverglas]

56. and your point was??

"Actually...
there is a group called Feminists for Life."

You apparently thought that this was a response to the question of whether there are any non-right-wing sites for opposing women's fundamental (reproductive) rights.

Actually ... what it was, was the same as saying, in response to "are there any non right wing homophobe sites", actually, there is a group called Westboro Baptist.

Feminists for Life, African-Americans for separate-but-equal, Lesbians for discrimination in employment on the basis of sexual orientation. If not oxymoronic in themselves, at least moronic.

Nice to know how conversant you are with, and thus how much you care about, women's rights, though.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Union Thug]

57. I disagree.

My father, now in his late 60's, and his friends were gun enthusiasts, hunters and target shooters. ALL of them were labor radicals and hard core lefties. I inherited my father's radicalism and am myself a collector of firearms.

The anti-gun lefty seems to me more of an artifact of the events of the Reagan/Bush years (although I'd need to give it more thought to commit to that... but I don't remember such divisiveness over firearms until after the Brady Bill...maybe someone here can sum up when things started to change with more precision than myself?), than a 'leftist value'. I read somewhere that even the much maligned Karl Marx argued for an armed proletariat.

[Retired AF Dem]

58. The CZ forum is preatty politics free

though it is mostly about CZ firearms, there is sections for other guns.
http://p201.ezboard.com/bczechpistols82792

[Union Thug]

59. Did you ever find the auction site? I frequent gunbroker.com

and have made several purchases there.

[skippythwndrdog]

60. A GOOD ONE! surplusrifle.com

www.surplusrifle.com

I have yet to see anything political there.

[Krinkov]

62. gunco.net

www.gunco.net
Chilled out site. Has people of various political stripes, but that all seems to take a backseat to level headed tech talk. It seems to be a favorite location of lefties who have gotten sick of the garbage on the other sites, including a couple who are very well spoken and highly respected by left and right alike. On the whole, very civil and mature. Excellent home-build info too.

Places like gunsnet.net (HUGE site) are full of great info. Definitely right wing. Dont expect political correctness or tolerance. Just stay away from the non firearm forums if you dont like it. Some outspoken dems there too-- it could always use more!

I'd avoid assaultweb -- quite a few white power people/nazis there, though it seems more toned down now. Lots of jesus talk too if that isn't your thing.