2X4 toting shop owner fights off gun toting would be robber

[Lefty48197]

I don't have a link to this story yet. I checked both Detroit newspapers' on line editions, and neither had a link yet. ( www.detnews.com and www.freep.com ) I saw the story on ABC Ch 7's 6 o'clock news today. http://www.wxyztv.com/# They do archive videos of their broadcasts, but today's isn't available yet. They replayed the story about five minutes into the 7 p.m. broadcast on Monday 12/6/04.
I'm assuming both the Detroit News, and the Detroit Free Press will have the story in tomorrow's editions. If so, I'll post a link. The video may be available tomorrow too.

The story told of a beauty-shop suppy store in Detroit that was targeted for robbery Saturday night by a gun toting bandit. The bandit walked into the shop and expected to get away enough money to buy who knows what? Bread for his family? Drugs/Alcohol? More bullets for more robberies later? Can't tell...
Either way, he didn't get away with anything. After he drew his gun and announced the robbery, one of the store employees tackled the would be robber, and in about a half a second, there were at least four store employees on top of the guy beating the hell out of him. The store owner even joined the fray by beating the guy over the head with a 2X4.
The best part? The whole thing was captured on security video tape, and we can expect to see it on America's Funniest Security Camera Videos for years to come.

I've posted this story for two reasons:

1) As a response to those who think that the one and only way to protect yourselves from crime, is gun ownership. "What are YOU gunna do? Call the PO-lllllllllice? Call 9-wun-wunnnnnnnnnnn?"

2) Because I do think that there are people who think that gun posession makes them super-human. Makes them invincible. Makes them tough. Here's the bottom line: Don't expect your gun to protect you, if there's not a brain behind it's use.

[Ardee]

1. We simply must

not allow unregistered two by fours to be in the hands of the public.Think of the potential harm they may cause, think of the splinters......

[Mark H]

18. They can have my 2X4

when they pry it from my cold dead hands.

[anonymous44]

21. LMAO

lol good one

[slackmaster]

2. Good for the 2x4 wielder!

Well done.

As for Lefty's questions:

1) As a response to those who think that the one and only way to protect yourselves from crime, is gun ownership. "What are YOU gunna do? Call the PO-lllllllllice? Call 9-wun-wunnnnnnnnnnn?"

I do not believe a gun is the only means of self-defense from crime, nor do I personally know anyone who holds such an attitude, therefore I cannot answer. Could you please give us a concrete example or three of people who have said something to that effect?

2) Because I do think that there are people who think that gun posession makes them super-human. Makes them invincible. Makes them tough. Here's the bottom line: Don't expect your gun to protect you, if there's not a brain behind it's use.

I don't personally know anyone who thinks carrying a gun makes them super-human, or invincible, or makes it OK to go to dangerous neighborhoods they wouldn't go to without a gun, or gives them the right to do the job of police. Could you please give us a concrete example or three of people who do?

I think you're going to have a hard time finding any takers on those questions, Lefty.

[CarinKaryn]

3. The armed robber

thought the gun gave him the power to attack a group of people.
The gun was not able to protect him. Now reverse the equation.
One person with a gun is not able to resist 4 unarmed robbers. Result? Citizen with gun beaten, his gun taken, another weapon on the street. Conclusion? Remove the gun from the equation entirely. Robbery still happens but with less carnage to all.

[slackmaster]

4. How do YOU know what the armed robber thought?

I think he was probably Jonesing for dope and wasn't thinking about anything else.

[vpigrad]

8. "but with less carnage to all."

Exactly, but the idiots that have those things (aka repukes) are too stupid to do the logic.

[slackmaster]

12. One small problem with that "logic"

No practical way to make the necessary conditions exist.

As long as there are any guns at all or a way to make them, criminals will have them.

[vpigrad]

14. Sigh

> criminals will have them.

And who do criminals buy them from? It's the people that can buy them in the first place: people like the members of the NRA. If gun owners in this country were no longer allowed to buy those things, it would cut-off the gun supply for criminals at the source, and we would all be safer.

[slackmaster]

17. And if my aunt had testicles

She'd be my uncle.

[anonymous44]

22. hahaha

you're right

some people forget about the borders. they act like nobody in USA can't manufacture a gun or smuggle some in. hell osama can drop his turban, pick up sombrero and walk across the border these days and still get a job thanks to Bush's guest worker program. They border is wide open and if drugs are making their way here, then guns will as well. some people are just naive.

[aikoaiko]

16. How does one get them out of the equation?

I suppose you could ask the criminals to turn in their guns

[Lefty48197]

5. Well right here on page one in the gun dungeon...

I found this link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x94446

"When they kick at your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun

When the law break in
How you gonna go?
Shot down on the pavement
Or waiting on death row?"

That's one example. Are you trying to tell me you've never seen a thread in here where a pro-gunner asks "What are you gonna do when the criminals/Commie soldiers come to get you?" or a reasonable paraphrase?

I think it's an everyday occurrence, but I don't think I'll spend any more time on your question.

[slackmaster]

6. I don't see the song the way you've painted it

I see the message there as being that you're probably going down but with a gun at least you can go down fighting. Unarmed you're just a potential victim. Fight back and the state will kill you anyway, but at least you will have tried.

Are you trying to tell me you've never seen a thread in here where a pro-gunner asks "What are you gonna do when the criminals/Commie soldiers come to get you?" or a reasonable paraphrase?

Let's see you come up with a link to someone saying that, but one caveat: The person who posted it must not be tombstoned.

I won't hold my breath waiting for a meaningful reply.

[Lefty48197]

10. Most of the gun nuts eventually expose themselves

and get tombstoned. That doesn't leave many left.

[slackmaster]

11. I agree that pro-gunners frequently troll DU

Some of them see it as a game.

Many of them have extreme views.

Most of them are assholes.

And they eventually do get caught.

But they do not represent MY values.

I will never cop to owning guns in preparation for some kind of "revolution", or to protect myself form the government, or because I think the Second Amendment guarantees me an unlimited right to keep and bear any kind of arms I want; because those are not my actual positions (as I have explained many times).

My basis for supporting the right to keep and bear arms is and always has been purely libertarian. I support gun ownership for exactly the same reasons I support gay marriage, the right to choose abortion, and decriminalizaiton/legalization of recreational drugs. It's all the same to me.

[Lefty48197]

19. I see an inconsistency here:

between "an unlimited right to keep and bear any kind of arms I want" and "a well regulated militia".

Where does the Constitution say anything about anybody owning any kind of arms they want?

[cms]

25. Well I'm stupider after reading that post...

Just because some of us support the right to own firearms and like guns doesn't mean that we cannot be democrats. I own many firearms including a few "assault rifles", but I'm not a commando wannabe, militia, extremist prepare for the end of the world kind of person. I enjoy shooting and exercising my freedoms, and we don't appreciate being labeled as extremists just because we support our rights. Maybe you need to take a walk over to the "Communist Underground Forums". We don't have the same views as you on one political issue so we should have our accounts locked...

[Wickerman]

26. I think Mr Slackmaster summed it up nicely

People don't get banned here because they support a right to own firearms. Not by any measure. Note that we have a gun forum and an outdoor sports forum - two places to discuss guns.

Users get banned for other extremist RW views or obvious attempts to disrupt. Or, when we figure out who they are a zombie of - meaning they were previously banned for behavior as listed above.

If you have further problems with the nature of moderation on this board please direct your browser to the Ask the Admin forum.

[robre]

7. What?

How does "the law" translate into "commie soldiers/criminals" coming from the Clash? Do you even know who the Clash are? You know the leftist english punk group? Do you know where Brixton is and to what this song is refering to? Rock against racism ring any bells?

Do you even realize how dangerous it is to attack a gun wielding person of any level of training, which I doubt this man probably had none and even had his finger resting on the trigger, with a blunt instrument or to tackle them?

A gun as is any weapon is a tool and a force multiplier. It depends on the wielder's situational awareness and skill to keep from being disarmed. It is not to be deployed in every situation.

"Don't expect your gun to protect you, if there's not a brain behind it's use."

Good axiom. You are likely to shoot your face off if you don't follow it.
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/negligence.mpg

[solinvictus]

15. Ummmm...

I posted that. "The Guns of Brixton" isn't a song about a revolution, it's about at least having the CHOICE of effective resistance to state tyranny. All the song say is, if state organs move against armed citizens, it won't be a cakewalk for the Chekists.

[-..__...]

9. Foolish and stupid move.

Ever hear the saying "Don't bring a knife (2x4), to a gunfight"?

Unless the stick-up artist was that careless and out of it that tackling and disarming him was a cinch.

Fortunately, the shop owner was lucky and the would be robber was captured.

[LinuxUser]

13. What happens when guns are involved in a situation

1. There is no good outcome. Only some outcomes which are less bad than other outcomes.

2. Which outcome actually happens is very unpredictable. A blind drunk man with a rusty 22 might get a lucky shot and kill someone with one bullet 50 meters away. A highly-trained SWAT officer might miss at close range with his MP5. It's all unpredictable. It's all probabilities. The best thing to do, obviously, is to avoid the situation. In this case, the robber intentionally got himself into the situation, and found out that, while a gun can be effective in some situations, it is not a guarantee of any particular outcome. He got whomped on the head, and fortunately it sounds like the intended victims all came out ok.

But that doesn't mean that guns aren't needed. You can find a million stories of things happening with guns, of guns working miraculously well or miraculously badly, of all kinds of things. If you really want to know what a gun can and cannot do, the best thing to do is to take some tactical firearms courses. You will then get to experience use of a firearm in various simulated situations against various types of threats. You'll find out quickly that Hollywood is somewhat misguided and you'll also find out how easy it is to miss, how easy it is to end up getting shot, and how amazingly dangerous the whole thing is.

See Rule 1: There are no good outcomes of a gun fight. Only some that are not as bad as others.

[Krinkov]

20. maybe its time..

to outfit our entire military with peices of wood, if they're so effective against firearms.

[anonymous44]

23. rofl

this thread is cracking me up

[cms]

24. Yeah but...

Firearms aren't the "only" way to protect yourself, but they are one of the best if you are properly trained and know the laws. Besides, that shop owner is nothing but lucky. If that robber wasn't such a coward, the clerk would be dead right now. I own many firearms, and I plan on using them to defend myself or my family if need be, but I have also attended more than 4 classes in the past 2 years on the proper use and handling of firearms. ...It wouldn't be a pretty sight seeing you after trying to fight off an experienced armed burglar in the middle of the night with a 2X4. Can you say closed casket funeral?