Suspected Burglar Shot During Home Invasion

[Remmah]

The victim is also a member of the "Mayor's impact team". The mayor's wife was the previous local chairperson of the MMM.



http://www.wivb.com/global/story.asp?s=2699793&ClientType=Printable

(Buffalo, NY, December 16, 2004) - - The tables turned on a pair of suspected burglars during a home invasion on Buffalo's east side.

The suspects were greeted by a homeowner who wasn't afraid to shoot.

Police say two men broke into a home on Best Street just before nine o'clock Wednesday night, one of them armed with a gun.

However, the homeowner had one too and opened fire, hitting one suspect in the chest. He then ran around the corner to Meyers Street, and collapsed.

[MrUnderhill]

1. "Suspected" burglar???

They think maybe they just had the wrong house and "accidentally" broke in to what they THOUGH was their own house with a gun?


I can't think of anything ELSE they might be there for that isn't WORSE than "burgling".

[Remmah]

4. Is there a difference between a burglarly and a home invasion?

In a burglarly I thought the perp tried to sneak in and steal without confrontation. In a home invasion my impression is the perps break in wanting the victim to be home so they can force the victim to give up the goods. Violence and brute force are two key elements that define a home invasion. Knowing that some burglars steal because they are poor, I might actually have sympathy for them. I have no tolerance for people who act with violence. Seriously, if I found a burglar in my house, sneaking in the night, I'd probably run the person off. If some clown(s) forced their way into my house and were confrontational, well I'm sure I'd be prone to counter force to suit the situation. A burglar in my house would see blue steel and be run off with a warning. Lots less paperwork in the long run.

[jody]

5. Could "home invasion" be a justified "preemptive attack"" n/t

[SmokingJacket]

2. Drunk college students, possibly.

In our college town, inebriated students will occasionally stumble into an unlocked apartment and crash on the sofa.

Not that I have any idea if this is a possibility in this case -- sounds like they certainly are burglars -- just pointing out that not everyone who's in someone else's house deserves to be shot.

[rkc3]

3. I've got two kids at home. Someone shows up late at night

and has a gun, you can bet your ass there'll be hell to pay. I don't subscribe to the NRA's view of vigilante justice, but the kids need to know they are safe in their own home.

[Billy Ruffian]

6. Vigilante justice?

Please define. I always thought that vigilante justice was a group of people hunting for an alleged criminal, and punishing him without the due process of the criminal justice system.

This is much, much different than self-defense.

I'd like to see a cite where the NRA has ever espoused vigilantism.

[rkc3]

9. Maybe vigilanteism is not the right word,

but their members take a lot of pride when one of their own gets to use a gun on a perp in their own home.

We've all seen the emails detailing how a homeowner shot a burglar out the front door and was complimented by the police for helping them do their jobs.

[slackmaster]

12. There's another side to stories like that

In my deadly force training we were presented with two similar yet very different scenarios:

1. You're in bed with your spouse. Suddenly a masked man comes crashing through your bedroom window. He's holding a knife and lunging toward you. You grab the Glock from your nightstand and shoot him twice. He dies. You call the police. They show up quickly, remove the man's mask, and say "That's the guy we've been looking for." He escaped from prison, killed a bunch of people, etc. etc.

2. Same scene except the masked intruder turns out to be your next door neighbor's 15-year-old kid who has a drug problem.

You were right to shoot in both cases, but the impact on your life may be very different. In one case you are clearly a hero. In the other you know the headlines in tomorrow's newspaper will read "Local Teen Slain". Some people will always think you were not justified in shooting. You may lose your job. Your children may be ostracized at school. You were right, but your life will never be the same.

[rkc3]

13. And then Scenario 2 becomes even worse when we learn his parents

are deacons at the local fundie church - and now we've killed another boy for Jesus.

My point is this - what's going to make you feel worse - shooting some dumbass who kicks your door in or living the rest of your life wondering how someone could have killed your wife and kids.

[slackmaster]

16. How YOU feel about it is only one small part of the problems you face

Even if you are justified in using deadly force you still face the prospect of criminal prosecution, lawsuits, and social problems forever.

[rkc3]

17. In today's atmospehere, I think you'd be crowned a hero

for shooting down someone who terrorized your household. Take the fundie approach and quote some scripture - you'd be fine.

In any event, it's easy to talk about how you'd act in these situations but it's completely different when you're thrown in these situations.

[slackmaster]

7. I believe NY's laws concerning use of deadly force are same as CA's

Even inside of your own home you can't shoot someone just for being there uninvited - You have to be under threat of death or great bodily injury before you can shoot, stab, bludgeon, pepper-spray, etc.

FWIW where I went to college it was not unusual for drunk students to wander into the wrong apartment either on campus or off. They all looked the same.

[JeebusB]

8. A very good reason

not to live in either of those places.

[slackmaster]

11. I'm perfectly OK with it

Property can be insured and replaced, and having an uninvited drunken guest in your home can provide for some entertainment. Like the inebriated German guy who tried to crawl into someone's house through a doggie door, got stuck, and passed out. The owner of the house removed the drunk's trousers, painted his butt blue, and left him there much to the amusement of passers-by.

Seriously, I wouldn't want to have on my conscience having killed or wounded someone who really didn't pose a threat to me like a lost drunk or the harmless mentally retarded man down the block who sometimes wanders into peoples' yards, or the guy I found sleeping in the bed of my pickup truck one morning back when I lived in the beach area.

If someone comes in to my home with the intent of harming or robbing me (i.e. using force or threat of force to deprive me of property), that's a different matter entirely.

If you think you should be allowed to shoot someone for messing with your stuff, by all means live in Texas.

[JeebusB]

14. The problem is...

knowing the true intent of an intruder is a luxury most people in that situation would not have. Shooting people is not something to look forward to but once you've been put in that position, how do you prove the threat was real? If the intruder is armed, that would certainly be in your favor but it's likely to be dark and you may not be able to see his hands whether or not they're holding a weapon.

If you're in someone else's home uninvited, you've pretty much put yourself at their mercy, IMHO. If you end up being carried out feet first, well, that may be a tragedy but it's one you brought upon yourself.

[slackmaster]

15. The test is whether a reasonable person in your situation...

...would feel threatened.

Act in a reasonable manner and you have a good chance of either getting no-billed or having a jury decide in your favor even if the perp was not a "real" threat.

[Buster43]

10. Boooooommmm!!!!

Anyone ever has the same experience as the people in the article, alweays repeat to the DA, Judge, Police, etc. "I was in fear of my life."

Anyone, drunk or otherwise breaks into my home is going to get a load of 00 buckshot.

I have been burgled twice, the second time I caught them as they were leaving my house and I chased after them in my car while calling in the Sherrif's office on my cell. Thankfully the deputies were only 2 minutes away and I had them meet me at a crossroads once I knew where the suspects car had gone. Since I am a Federal Officer, the deputies asked for my assistance and while they made entrance into the front door, I covered the back. Yes, I was armed. One of the crooks tried to come out the back and since they had stolen guns from another house in their car, I had no idea whether they were armed or not. So my weapon was out and as he exited the trailer, he was staring down the barrel of my .40 P229 SIG/SAUER. He surrendered and was cuffed. In all four suspects were taken down. The investigator for the county was so excited over these suspects being captured since he believed he would close 50, no exageration, cases. That schmuck who came out the back door has no idea how close he came to being popped by me.

Yeah, I have a hardon over home invasion, burglars, call it whatever you like.

[NorthernSpy]

18. dude...

Yeah, I have a hardon over home invasion, burglars, call it whatever you like.

Your turn of phrase confuses me a little. Are you being sarcastic, or are you saying that you found the incident novel or exciting in some way?