Not an internal Palestinian matter. Amira Hass.

[Tom Joad]

The experiment was a success: The Palestinians are killing each other. They are behaving as expected at the end of the extended experiment called "what happens when you imprison 1.3 million human beings in an enclosed space like battery hens."

These are the steps in the experiment: Imprison (since 1991); remove the prisoners' usual means of livelihood; seal off all outlets to the outside world, nearly hermetically; destroy existing means of livelihood by preventing the entry of raw materials and the marketing of goods and produce; prevent the regular entry of medicines and hospital supplies; do not bring in fresh food for weeks on end; prevent, for years, the entry of relatives, professionals, friends and others, and allow thousands of people - the sick, heads of families, professionals, children - to be stuck for weeks at the locked gates of the Gaza Strip's only entry/exit.

Steal hundreds of millions of dollars (customs and tax revenues collected by Israel that belong to the Palestinian treasury), so as to force the nonpayment of the already low salaries of most government employees for months; present the firing of homemade Qassam rockets as a strategic threat that can only be stopped by harming women, children and the old; fire on crowded residential neighborhoods from the air and the ground; destroy orchards, groves and fields.
More at http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArtVty.jhtml?sw=hass&itemNo=770053
____________________________________

[ThomCat]

1. This guy gets it.

Good editorial.

[Tom Joad]

2. well, this women gets it. Yes, she has lived many years

in Gaza and in the West Bank.

[ThomCat]

3. Oops. When I clicked the link I got a large picture of a guy

with the article so I thought that was the author. It must have been an ad. :)

[Behind the Aegis]

4. Like the rising sun...

...Amira Hass and her ilk always ready to blame Israel. She is the best propagandist that the Palestinians have. They should be paying her, not Ha'aretz!

[Tom Joad]

5. I think because she knows the situation so well, it makes some

people angry and upset. She also tells the truth.

[Behind the Aegis]

6. I think it is because she a propagandist to the nth degree.

She is no different than those that try to make all Palestinians look like terrorists.

[Tom Joad]

7. Nothing to say about the article at hand? Just here to attack Amira

Hass? Do share.
And Thanks for stopping by.

[Behind the Aegis]

8. It is almost nothing but propaganda.

It is filled with hyperbole and misdirection. This is not new with her writings. It all boils down to one thing: it is the Israelis fault. To me, that smells of racism.

[Tom Joad]

9. Nothing specific?

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tom Joad]

13. Thousands of Palestinians are held by Israelis. Hundreds of women

are held by Israel. Torture is common place. (Read B'tselem reports, but i'm sure they "smell of racism" for you too) Hundreds have been killed since that that soldier was captured, so many have suffered.

Border? Israel does not recognize the West Bank border. It goes in at will and kidnaps (or "arrests") children!

"One day before, on June 24, Israeli forces kidnapped two Gaza civilians, Osama and Mustafa Muamar, by any standards a far more severe crime than capture of a soldier. The Muamar kidnappings were certainly known to the major world media." Noam Chomsky.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3286204,00.html

It may surprise you to know that Osama and Mustafa also have families who care about them. Yet nothing is said about them. Not in the Western press. Now that's racism.

[Behind the Aegis]

14. You have a point?

I never denied that Israel detains women and children. That is a strawman of your design. Torture is commonplace, sadly, in many places; it doesn't make it worse or better that is done in Israel. I also never denied that innocents have been killed or suffered, that is what you are claiming I am implying.

I wasn't talking of the West Bank. This article is about Gaza. Gaza DOES have a border with Egypt? Yes?

As for the Chomsky bit, well, I have only seen that proclaimed by him and a few Arabic, virulently anti-Israeli, sites. I don't think we know what really happened, or if it happened. I would think it would be a cause celebre for the PA, who haven't really said anything about it or even the incursion.

BTW, do you think all those women and children are innocent?

[Tom Joad]

15. I don't think children should be tortured. I do think torture is a big

deal.

[Behind the Aegis]

16. Well, we agree on something.

How that came into being is a mystery to me. I never said or implied I advocated torture, much less against children. But, whatever.

[Englander]

17. Could you explain this comment, please?

(The part in bold)

Gaza has been firing Qassams from the day Israel judenreined Gaza!

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say, here, could you elaborate? Is the intention to equate
the 'disengagement' with the actions of the Nazis, since that's what it reads like?

Here's an article that rails against the removal of the settlements from Gaza, & uses the same phrase
you've used;

'Judenrein in Israel

By Ron Breiman
Published: 08.21.05, 14:52

Ron Breiman is the head of Professors for a Strong Israel

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3130964,00.html

[Tom Joad]

26. It smells of inappropriate language to me.

[Englander]

33. Ever so slightly. n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

34. Perhaps you don't understand the use.

[Violet_Crumble]

45. Then maybe you should explain it?

Because as it stands yr post was not only ridiculous, but disgusting because it's comparing the disengagement to the racial policies of the Nazis before and during the Holocaust. See, Judenrein is a German term associated with the Nazis and to make something Judenrein was to remove all Jews because they were Jews and for no other reason at all. Those who wanted to make Germany Judenrein were antisemites and were carrying out ethnic cleansing. There is no other way of defining this term. Yet you label Israel's removal of Israeli settlers from Gaza, territory that was occupied by Israel and where Israel was finally abiding by international law in removing the settlers as being ethnic cleansing carried out due to antisemtism....

If yr in any doubt at all as to the specific connection with the Nazis, here's the definition from the Holocaust glossary from a Shoah education site:

Judenrein- like Judenfrei, only this term carried with it the notion a a purifying or cleansing, not only of an area but of a bloodline: it meant a purging of the Jews from the race and land.

http://www.shoaheducation.com/definitions.html#J

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken Burch]

47. Taking the illegitmate and reactionary settlements out of Gaza

Was not the equivalent to making Gaza "Judenrein". It was the removal of an artificially imposed population(a population that was pretty much always committed to making Palestinians miserable)from an area where that population had only been inserted out of Sharon's notion that settlements served Israel's security needs at the time.

It's not like they were being kicked out of Jerusalem.

Gaza never had any historic significance for Jews or Judaism.

Please tell me that you aren't a defender of those meshuganah idiots in the orange shirts. The ones who said "serves you right" when Sharon had his cerebral hemmorrhage. Those people never did Israel any good.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lurking Dem]

59. Wasn't Hebron the oldest

continuous Jewish majority city on the planet? Don't know where I read that.

[Ken Burch]

60. Well, the Israeli government should have recognized the PA as a state

with control of all the West Bank and Gaza as soon as Oslo went into negotiation. Sharon's Gaza pullout wasn't really about peace, it was about making a meaningless token concession and hoping the Palestinians would let it go at that.

I guess the real question is, would keeping the settlements in Gaza have been worth the added aggravation? My understanding is that the majority of people in Israel proper(the pre-1967 boundaries)wanted the Gaza pullout and felt that the settlers there(as well as the West Bank settlers)weren't worthy of the loss of Israeli life their presence was causing.

The real steps Israel needs to take to make peace now include removing the fascist checkpoints, leaving the Palestinian water supply uninterrupted for all time, and admitting that, while the establishment of a Jewish state was justified, the dispossession of 750,000 Palestinians who had never been the Jewish people's historic enemies was not. An apology for that is needed, and even you, I hope, will agree that settlement construction should have stopped at the time of Oslo.

[Englander]

61. The second part of that post contradicts the first part.

The 1st half of the 1st sentence is flatly contradicted by the comments that follow.

Since Judenrein makes another appearence, here's the link to the definition of the phrase;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=150303&mesg_id=150518

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tom Joad]

10. So you think Amira is racist?

[Behind the Aegis]

12. I said it "smells of racism."

[pelsar]

18. is obvious she simply making things up:

present the firing of homemade Qassam rockets as a strategic threat that can only be stopped by harming women, children and the old

this means in the HQ of the israeli airforce the planners are saying: to stop the next volly of kassams you pilots must go out and kill/wound "x" amount of palestenain children, women and people older than 65.

________

i guess we could call it lying, or making things up, story telling, fiction...whatever it is, its not truthful.....sad are the people who hold up such obvious fiction as truths.

[Violet_Crumble]

19. But yr now accusing her of saying something she didn't say...

this means in the HQ of the israeli airforce the planners are saying:

She didn't make any claim that planners are giving that order at all, pelsar. If yr going to accuse her of dishonesty, it would help yr case to actually accuse her of something she actually said...

[Tom Joad]

23. Israeli planners do know that the results of their actions will result

in civilian death and suffering. They do not need to target a certain number, or anyone in particular, they know. In Lebanon, Israeli leaders used strikes against civilian targets as a way of pressuring the Hezbollah. (strikes against civlian targets as way to make political gain = terrorism)

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE180072006
Statements by Israeli military officials seem to confirm that the destruction of the infrastructure was indeed a goal of the military campaign. On 13 July, shortly after the air strikes began, the Israel Defence Force (IDF) Chief of Staff Lt-Gen Dan Halutz noted that all Beirut could be included among the targets if Hizbullah rockets continued to hit northern Israel: "Nothing is safe , as simple as that,"(8) he said. Three days later, according to the Jerusalem Post newspaper, a high ranking IDF officer threatened that Israel would destroy Lebanese power plants if Hizbullah fired long-range missiles at strategic installations in northern Israel.(9) On 24 July, at a briefing by a high-ranking Israeli Air Force officer, reporters were told that the IDF Chief of Staff had ordered the military to destroy 10 buildings in Beirut for every Katyusha rocket strike on Haifa.(10) His comments were later condemned by the Association for Civil Rights in Israel.(11) According to the New York Times, the IDF Chief of Staff said the air strikes were aimed at keeping pressure on Lebanese officials, and delivering a message to the Lebanese government that they must take responsibility for Hizbullah’s actions. He called Hizbullah "a cancer" that Lebanon must get rid of, "because if they don’t their country will pay a very high price." (12)

I know, i know, the Amnesty International report will be sniffed and found to stink of "racism" by some. But many people find Amnesty more credible than the sniffers.

[Violet_Crumble]

21. Examples of 'hyperbole' and 'misdirection'

Hyperbole: 'Gaza has been firing Qassams from the day Israel judenreined Gaza!'

Misdirection: 'No mention of the BILLIONS stolen by the former leader, money NEVER recovered.'

[Behind the Aegis]

24. Better examples and some definitions

hy‧per‧bo‧le  /haɪˈpɜrbəli/ Pronunciation Key - 1. obvious and intentional exaggeration. source

Hyperbole: "...present the firing of homemade Qassam rockets as a strategic threat that can only be stopped by harming women, children and the old." and "are behaving as expected at the end of the extended experiment called "what happens when you imprison 1.3 million human beings in an enclosed space like battery hens.""

fact  /fækt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation - 1. something that actually exists; reality; truth source

Judenreined - (German) to make free (clean) of Jews

Fact: "Gaza has been firing Qassams from the day Israel judenreined Gaza!"

Fact: Israel forcibly removed all Jews from Gaza.

Fact: Jewish population in Gaza after September 2005: 0%

Fact: Since the withdrawal, Qassam attacks have almost been a daily occurence.

mis‧di‧rec‧tion  /ˌmɪsdɪˈrɛkʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation 1. a wrong or incorrect direction, guidance, or instruction. source

Misdirection: "It is the good old Israeli experiment called "put them into a pressure cooker and see what happens," and this is one of the reasons why this is not an internal Palestinian matter."

Adding "No mention of the BILLIONS stolen by the former leader, money NEVER recovered.", is not misdirection, but added information that created some of the payment problems of which she speaks.

[Tom Joad]

25. Fact: Amira Hass has been a resident of Gaza.

You have not. Amira lived there as a neighbor, not a settler. There is a difference.

Fact: The settlements were illegal under international law, as this was taking land by military force. So Israel's removal of these illegally occupied areas is what is required under international law. That the settlers did not leave on their own is their problem. That they acted with such violence against the Israeli army is probably based on their education.

Fact: Many of the Gaza settlers have gone to the West Bank, in areas that are also taken by military force. Illegally occupied. These settlements are expanding. A few small ones were planned to be closed, but there was never any serious talk of dismantling all the settlements, but instead the plan was to annex the biggest ones to Israel and then close off the rest of the West Bank, making prisonII for Palestinians.

The connecting roads for the settlements are "Palestinian-free" meaning yet another obstacle in the West Bank for Palestinian travel. As well as the other atrocities Amira describes in the article.

Amira Hass knows, from the ground, what is happening to the people of Palestine. That this makes violence against Israel worse is what anyone with a brain bigger than W. Bush would expect.

Reminds me of the NIE story. W was probably one of the few people on earth who expected anything other
than what US intelligence agencies now admit: the war and occupation of Iraq has made threats against the US worse than they were before Now witnessing years of a bloody and savage US occupation of Iraq has increased the animosity toward the United States. Total destruction of cities like Fallujah killed many who would take up arms against the Untied States, but it was the best recruitment drive ever for future attackers. The Iraq war has led to terrible violence.

Anyone who cares about the United States would protest Bush's policy. Bush saw the millions who protested around the world as a sign of "anti-americanism" or people who are "jealous of our success" or even "collaborating with terrorists". In contrast, my own American eyes saw my best friends in photos of protest from Rome, London, Tel Aviv, Iceland, Brazil when that glorious protest took place in February 2003. They acted as my neighbors and friends. Bush acted as my worst enemy.

same with israel. Its actions cause more violence. Any Israeli who speaks out against current government policy is not just caring about Palestinians, and other victims of Israeli aggression, they are caring about the future of their country.

Amira Hass is doing what any person who loves her homeland would do, speaking out against dangerous policy. She is one of Israel's best. I also know she is not alone.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[furman]

28. Fact: In 2001 Amira Hass was found guilty of fabricating reports and fined

From CAMERA (Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America)

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_article=171">Ha’aretz Fuels Anti-Israel Bias
August 6, 2001 by Andrea Levin

Although Ha’aretz bills itself as “an independent newspaper with a broadly liberal outlook,” many of the opinion writers and some reporters espouse views of the extreme far left, and factual accuracy is often sacrificed to their political predilections. Reporter Amira Hass, for example, has just been ordered by the Jerusalem Magistrate’s Court to pay $60,000 in damages to the Jewish community of Hebron for her false and incendiary report that Jewish residents there had abused the corpse of a dead Arab shot by Israeli Border police in a violent incident. The allegations were disproved by multiple televised accounts of the event.

Also from CAMERA regarding Ha'aretz's coverage:
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_article=1016">UPDATED: Ha'aretz Indifferent to Journalistic Norms
November 30, 2005 by Tamar Sternthal

However, unlike prominent American and international outlets, Ha'aretz apparently considers itself above criticism. Ha'aretz editors seem unaccustomed to responding to readers in a straightforward process and appear to believe readers have no right to fault them for shoddy, inaccurate coverage. Rather than considering the substance of CAMERA's queries, Ha'aretz has stonewalled completely, refusing to correct errors.

[Tom Joad]

29. CAMERA says that Haaretz is anti-Israel. Despite it being owned by

Jewish Israelis and one of the most popular newspapers in Israel.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
nice try. desperate, but nice try.

[Douglas Carpenter]

30. that is a bazaar claim. I subscribe to Haaretz and I am always getting

stuff from them asking me to write letters to the media defending Israeli policy and offering me whole packages of "fact sheets" and talking points on how to make pro-Israeli arguments.

CAMERA has a standard for uncompromisingly supporting the party line that would impress the cadre of the Maoist cultural revolution of 1960's China.

[furman]

31. Maybe Ha'aretz maintains separate news and op-ed departments?

much like how it is done with major papers in the US.

And Mr. Joad, my posting was not "desperate".
Instead of laughing at the CAMERA articles, how about actually reading them?
If you do read them and find them mostly accurate, then you may conclude that people like Amira Hess cannot always be taken at face value.

[Douglas Carpenter]

32. as far as I know, Ha'aretz only has three regular writers who could be

accused of being sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, Gideon Levy, Danny Rubbinstein and Amira Hass.

They will have guest op-eds by others including occasional Palestinian writers. But both the news and the vast majority of op-eds are well within the establishment consensus.

As far as I am aware the only Ha'aretz employed staff Palestinian writer works in the sports department.

I think you would find CAMERA to be viewed as extraordinarily ideological and intolerant of intellectual debate; even debate held well within the context of committed Zionism. One that comes to mind is that CAMERA had proclaimed the noted and arguably leading Israeli historian on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, Benny Morris as being anti-Israeli. In fact, Benny Morris would viewed by any Palestinian and anyone sympathetic with the Palestinians as being a racist, a bigot and an apologist for ethnic cleansing. But because Mr. Morris was willing to at least acknowledge some unflattering moments in Israel's history as any honest historian of any country would be obliged to acknowledge, Mr. Morris has failed the CAMERA test.

[Tom Joad]

35. Those three writers are the most sympathetic to the future of Israel

Opposing current policies of war and occupation are the worst thing.
Just as anyone who opposes current u.s. policy is not doing the U.S. any favors, neither is supporting the war policies of israel doing israel any favors.

[Ken Burch]

48. That's CAMERA for you...

They're the schmucks that kept putting those stupid ads in magazines equating ANY criticism of the Israeli government with antisemitism and insisting that Palestinians were never a nation in their own right but only the mythical "unrelenting Arab campaign to destroy Israel".

They all but celebrated when Rabin was assassainated.

[Violet_Crumble]

20. Is there a problem with that link?

When I click on it, the Ha'aretz page appears, but where the article should be is blank...

[Tom Joad]

22. Try this link:

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/story-10050670326.htm

Haaretz often has that problem with many links.

[Violet_Crumble]

57. Thanks n/t

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Douglas Carpenter]

37. I believe what you're suggesting is called ethnic cleansing

The East Bank (later Jordan) was part of Transjordan which was granted autonomy by Britain on May 14, 1923. It was NOT part of the British Mandate of Palestine. -- link:
http://www.jerusalem-archives.org/period3/3-5.html



The Palestinians simply do not want to leave their country. The United Nations, the World Court, the International Committee of the Red Cross and every conceivable and credible international body all agree that every inch of the Gaza, The West Bank and East Jerusalem is Occupied Palestinian Land. There is no credible disagreement about that.

Right now the Palestinians are willing to accept a genuinely independent and genuinely viable state on 22% of the former British Mandate of Palestine with their capital in Arab East Jerusalem.

That certainly does not sound unreasonable to me.

The other but admittedly unlikely alternative is a single bi-national Israeli/Palestinian state solution based on full ethnic and religious equality. However not many are talking about that solution at this time and as I said it does sound unlikely. Although it would certainly be acceptable to almost all Palestinians. Perhaps it is a bit utopic to imagine that the claim of enlightened, liberal and democratic values could actually be extended to everyone living under Israeli sovereignty. But it is a nice thought.
___________

Map showing the massive destruction of Palestinian towns after al-Nakba in 1948 -- link:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story572.html

The RED DOTS represents the ethnically cleansed and destroyed Palestinian towns during and after the 1948 war.

[Tom Joad]

40. Yes, it is ethnic cleansing. Implementing such a solution would

be yet another gross violation of international law and human rights.

[Englander]

44. Yep, just another day in I/P.

[Violet_Crumble]

54. Amazing, isn't it? n/t

[cali]

41. I question your claim that

almost all Palestinians would be happy with a one state solution. Everything I've seen shows a Palestinian preference for a two state solution. However, with a one state solution, the Israelis would be a minority, and I sincerely doubt that the Palestinians would grant them any sort of equal status.

[Douglas Carpenter]

42. a binational secular state is actual the old position held

by the PLO and other leading organization like the Israeli Hadash Party. It was more an older generation's idea. But you are quite correct that for the last several years the two state solution has become orthodoxy and very few people talk about a single state solution anymore.

I do wonder though that if Israel continues its settlement expansions and division on the West Bank, perhaps things will reach a point where a two-state solution will simply become implausible leaving a one-state solution as the only option beyond ethnic cleansing.

I would grant that the idea sounds quite utopic at this time. However, in post-apartheid South Africa the white minority still has equal if not better then equal rights in spite of being a much smaller minority than Jewish-Israeli citizens would be under a single state solution. There was just as much mutual fear and loathing during the days of apartheid South Africa and the situation was at least as violent as exist now and almost exactly the same fears of what would happen in the future were going on in apartheid South Africa as we now hear in regard to Israel/Palestine.

A single state solution is not feasible at this time. I would have to agree. Yet I see no evidence that Israel is prepared to negotiate a two-state solution that would grant genuine and viable independence any time in the foreseeable future. And in the more distant future a two-state solution may already have become implausible.

There are also theories about a two-state federation. Some would suggest that a single-state or a federation is a way to deal with the issue of the West Bank settlers and also to address the situation of the Palestinians within Israel.

I believe Professor Ilan Pappe is actually an advocate of a binational solution. Although he also recognizes that the idea is not in vogue at the moment.

[Violet_Crumble]

55. And I question yr claim that...

the Israelis would be a minority, and I sincerely doubt that the Palestinians would grant them any sort of equal status.

The Palestinian people are more than likely much more tolerant and less exclusionary than yr average American who thrives on making judgements on other groups of people...

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Douglas Carpenter]

51. obviously there are a Palestinian people from Palestine

here is some very detailed info regarding pre-1948 Palestine and the Palestinian People:

http://allthatremains.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story559.html

___________________

Regarding the Event of 1948 please allow me to quote Former Israeli Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben-Ami:

"It was that an Arab community in a state of terror facing a ruthless Israeli army whose path to victory was paved not only by its exploits against the regular Arab armies, but also by the intimidation, and at times atrocities and massacres, it perpetuated against the civilian Arab community. A panic-stricken Arab community was uprooted under the impact of massacres that would be carved into the Arabs monument of grief and hatred" - - Former Israeli Foreign Minister, Shlomo Ben-Ami from Scars of War, Wounds of Peace: The Israeli-Arab Tragedy,
_________________


If you are interested in reading a history of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict from a point of view different than what you will usually hear in America -- Here is a somewhat long (10 pages) article by Professor Ilan Pappe of Haifa University -- What Really Happened Fifty Years Ago?

http://www.ameu.org/page.asp?iid=35&aid=427&pg=1

____________

and this article from the New York Times 1986 available for a fee:

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50716FE3E540C708DDDA80894DE484D81

"By ANTHONY LEWIS (NYT) 775 words
Published: January 13, 1986

BOSTON - There Were No Indians

Has the life of the mind been so politicized in this country that intellectuals who welcome a book's political conclusion will shrug off challenges to its truth? That is the troubling question raised by the controversy over ''From Time Immemorial: The Origins of the Arab-Jewish Conflict Over Palestine,'' by Joan Peters.
The Peters book, published in 1984, makes dramatic assertions on the basis of what it calls fresh historical evidence. It says that Palestine was essentially ''uninhabited'' by Arabs before the Zionist movement began toward the end of the 19th century. The Arabs came in large numbers after that, from nearby countries, drawn by the economic effects of Jewish settlements.

snip:"But an 1893-94 census by the Ottoman Empire, which then controlled the area, showed a total of 9,817 Jews in all of Palestine and 371,969 Moslems. How did Miss Peters get her results? She used the census only in part, relying also on an estimate by a French traveler of the time, regarded by experts as worthless.
For her claim that immigration from nearby countries greatly swelled the number of Arabs in Palestine, Miss Peters cites scattered statements -often leaving out key words or misrepresenting them. Thus she cites a 1930 British report's mention of ''pseudo-travelers'' who stayed in Palestine to live as if it were referring to Arabs, when the reference was evidently to Jewish travelers.
In small ways as well as large the book is slippery. Miss Peters says a report by the Institute for Palestine Studies found that 68 percent of the Arabs who became refugees in 1948 ''left without seeing an Israeli soldier.'' The report was actually about refugees in the 1967 war, and the percentage was of just 37 refugees who were studied"

Israelis have not gushed over the book as some Americans have. Perhaps that is because they know the reality of the Palestinians' existence, as great Zionists of the past knew. Perhaps it is because most understand the danger of trying to deny a people identity. As Professor Porath says, ''Neither historiography nor the Zionist cause itself gains anything from mythologizing history.''

_______________________

three important scholarly works:

Blaming the Victims: Spurious Scholarship and the Palestinian Question
by Edward Said -- Amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/Blaming-Victims-Scholarship-Palestinian-Question/dp/1859843409/sr=1-1/qid=1160460768/ref=sr_1_1/002-4750258-7334423?ie=UTF8&s=books

A History of Modern Palestine by Professor Ilan Pappe of Haifa University:-- Amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/History-Modern-Palestine-Land-Peoples/dp/0521683157/sr=1-2/qid=1160460989/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-4750258-7334423?ie=UTF8&s=books

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe:

http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851684670/sr=1-1/qid=1160461142/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-4750258-7334423?ie=UTF8&s=books

[Douglas Carpenter]

58. please allow me to add that if one does care about the well being

of the Israeli people than the last thing one wants to do is to promote ideas and take actions that would fuel even far-far greater division and would undoubtedly provoke a regional war with devastating consequence and by no means a certain outcome.

It is in the interest of the Israeli people to seek a political solution and to reject war and ethnic cleansing.

I believe you have refereed on other post to the Jewish tradition of social justice. I list below some Jewish-Israeli organization that care deeply about social justice:



http://www.btselem.org/english/About_BTselem/Index.asp

Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions:

http://www.icahd.org/eng

The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel

http://www.stoptorture.org.il/eng/background.asp?menu=3&submenu=3

Physicians for Human Rights - Israel

http://www.phrusa.org/healthrights/phr_israel.html

Machsom Watch (Monitors abuse at checkpoints)

http://www.machsomwatch.org/eng/homePageEng.asp?link=homePage&lang=eng

[Violet_Crumble]

56. In that case there's no such thing as Israelis either...

In fact, I'm going to insist on future on putting the term Israelis in dit-dits and questioning their existance and wondering to myself how long I'll last here before I get tombstoned ;) Whoever wrote that crap you posted is a fucking bigoted wanker...

[Englander]

43. What you're suggesting is ethnic cleansing.

Which as proprosals for 'peace & prosperity' go, certainly takes some beating.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

62. To be honest, I think ethnic cleansing would be the only think that might

deliver "peace".

I don't think the Israeli's and the Palestinians are going to stop killing one another any time in the forseeable future, so long as there are both Israelis and Palestinians. I can only see two possible courses that might lead to "peace" in the Middle East - kill/deport all the Palestinians, and kill/deport all the Israelis.

I hasten to add that I don't think either of those would ever be justifiable under any circumstances whatsoever, but frankly I don't think anything short of one or the other will bring peace in my life-time - I expect still to be reading "Middle East Conflict Flares Up Again, 37 dead" headlines in fifty years time.

[Douglas Carpenter]

38. another great article by Dr. Sara Roy of Harvard about the Gaza

"Dr. Sara Roy is a Professor at the Center for Middle Eastern Studies at Harvard University. Dr. Roy has worked in the Gaza Strip and West Bank since 1985 conducting research primarily on the economic, social, and political development of the Gaza Strip and on U.S. foreign aid to the region. Dr. Roy has written extensively on the Palestinian economy, particularly in Gaza, and has documented its development over the last three decades."

Please note this line at the end of the article. "The above text may be used without permission but with proper attribution to The Palestine Center. This information brief does not necessarily reflect the views of The Jerusalem Fund. link: http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/images/informationbrief.php?ID=169

So with proper thanks to the Palestine Center here is the article in full:

Palestine Center Information Brief No. 143 (02 October 2006)

By Sara Roy

Overview: In one of many reports and accounts of economic life in the Gaza Strip that I have recently read, I was struck by a description of an old man standing on the beach in Gaza throwing his oranges into the sea. The description leapt out at me because it was this very same scene I myself witnessed some 21 years ago during my very first visit to the territory. It was the summer of 1985 and I was taken on a tour of Gaza by a friend named Alya. As we drove along Gaza's coastal road I saw an elderly Palestinian man standing at the shoreline with some boxes of oranges next to him. I was puzzled by this and asked Alya to stop the car. One by one, the elderly Palestinian took an orange and threw it into the water. His was not an action of playfulness but of pain and regret. His movements were slow and labored as if the weight of each orange was more than he could bear. I asked my friend why he was doing this and she explained that he was prevented from exporting his oranges to Israel and rather than watch them rot in his orchards, the old man chose to cast them into the sea. I have never forgotten this scene and the impact it had on me.

Politics and Economics

Over two decades later, after peace agreements, economic protocols, road maps and disengagements, Gazans are still casting their oranges into the sea. Yet Gaza is no longer where I found it so long ago but someplace far worse and more dangerous. One year after Israel’s 2005 “disengagement” from the Strip, which was hailed by President Bush as a great opportunity for “the Palestinian people to build a modern economy that will lift millions out of poverty create the institutions and habits of liberty,”i a “Dubai on the Mediterranean”ii according to Thomas Friedman, Gaza is undergoing acute and debilitating economic declines marked by unprecedented levels of poverty, unemployment, loss of trade, and social deterioration especially with regard to the delivery of health and educational services.

The optimism that surrounded the disengagement was also reflected in the Palestinian Authority’s plan for reviving Gaza’s economy known as the Gaza Strip Economic Development Strategy, published soon after the disengagement was completed.iii This document, less a development plan than an articulation of objectives, had, among its primary goals “chieving stability, contiguity and control over land to support the Palestinian economy,” and “dopting effective economic policies to enable the rehabilitation of the Palestinian economy to achieve comprehensive development.”iv

Needless to say the Authority has not been able to realize its objectives given the exigencies imposed. However, it is important to point out that even in the absence of many constraints, rational planning of the sort described in the Authority’s plan is simply futile in an environment that is itself so irrational, typified by increasingly acute unpredictability, vulnerability and dependency, themselves resulting from a continued and unchanged occupation. This is not a new problem but an old one that requires a new approach that argues that as long as the political environment remains unchanged (or worsened), economic development is precluded and economic planning should focus on areas less vulnerable to external pressure (e.g. labor force training, institutional development). Otherwise, planning becomes nothing more than a theoretical and increasingly abstract exercise that promises few if any meaningful results. In this context, international aid can play a critical role in helping people survive but with little if any structural impact on the economy.

The pauperization of Gaza’s economy is not accidental but deliberate, the result of continuous restrictive Israeli policies (primarily closure), particularly since the start of the current uprising six years ago, and more recently of the international aid embargo imposed on Palestinians after the election and installation of the democratically elected Hamas-led government earlier this year. However, one need only look at the economy of Gaza, for example, on the eve of the uprising to realize that the devastation is not recent. By the time the second intifada broke out, Israel's closure policy had been in force for seven years, leading to by then unprecedented levels of unemployment and poverty (which would soon be surpassed). Yet the closure policy proved so destructive only because the 30 year process of integrating Gaza's economy into Israel's had made the local economy deeply dependent. As a result, when the border was closed in 1993, self-sustainment was no longer possible—the means were simply not there. Decades of expropriation and deinstitutionalization had long ago robbed Palestine of its potential for development, ensuring that no viable economic (and hence political) structure could emerge.v

International Agencies: Realties and Forecasts

According to the World Bank, Palestinians are currently experiencing the worst economic depression in modern history. The opprobrious imposition of international sanctions has had a devastating impact on an already severely comprised economy given its extreme dependence on external sources of finance. For example, the Palestinian Authority is highly dependent on two sources of income. The first is annual aid package from Western donors of about $1 billion per year (in 2005, according to the World Bank, donors gave $1.3 billion in humanitarian and emergency <$500m/38%>, developmental <$450m/35%> and budgetary <$350m/27%>) assistance, much of it now suspended. The second is a monthly transfer by Israel of $55 million in customs and tax revenues that it collects for the PA, a source of revenue that is absolutely critical to the Palestinian budget and totally suspended.vi In fact, Israel is now withholding close to half a billion dollars in Palestinian revenue that is desperately needed in Gaza.

The combined impact of restrictions, notably the almost unabated closure and the ongoing economic boycott, has resulted in unprecedented levels of unemployment that currently approach 40 percent in Gaza (compared to less than 12 percent in 1999). In fact, Palestinian workers from Gaza have not been allowed into Israel since 12 March 2006, Gaza’s primary market and all entry and exit points have been virtually sealed since June 25, 2006 when Israel’s current military campaign in Gaza began.vii In the next five years, furthermore, 135,000 new jobs will be needed just to keep unemployment at 10 percent.viii Trade levels have been similarly affected. By early May 2006, for example, the Karni crossing, through which commercial supplies enter Gaza, had been closed for 47 percent of the year with estimated daily losses of $500,000-$600,000.ix Compounding this are agricultural losses amounting to an estimated $1.2 billion for both Gaza and the West Bank over the last six years.

By April 2006 79 percent of Gazan households were living in povertyx (compared to less than 30 percent in 2000), a figure that has likely increased; many are hungry. Furthermore, in Gaza, adding one dependent member to the family increases the household's probability of being poor by 3.5 percent. The dependency burden found in Gaza is second only to that of Africa.xi Hence, the number of adults in a household who are employed is a strong factor in poverty alleviation. Not surprisingly, individuals living in the Gaza Strip are 23 percent more likely to be poor than individuals living in the West Bank.

The United Nations currently feeds approximately 830,000 of Gaza’s 1.4 million population (or 59 percent of the total population who would go hungry without UN assistance)—100,000 of whom were added since March of this year. UNRWA primarily supports 610,000 (all of whom are refugees) and the World Food Program supports 220,000 (60,000 were added in September 2006 alone) non-refugees. The latter include 136,000 “chronic poor” who previously received welfare assistance from the PA.xii

Exacerbating Gaza’s socioeconomic decline was Israel’s attack on Gaza’s only power station last June. The plant, which was destroyed, supplied 45 percent of the electricity in the Gaza Strip. The cuts in power have been extremely harmful to healthcare delivery, food and water supplies, and the treatment of sewage among other problems. Recently, the Israeli human rights group, B’tselem said the attack on the power plant constituted a war crime under international law since it targeted a civilian population.

Furthermore, since Israel’s military invasion of the Gaza Strip known as “Operation Summer Rains,” 237 Palestinians have been killed by the IDF (out of 382 since January 2006 and 2137 since September 2000, the majority civilians) and 821 wounded. The Israeli military has also fired at least 260 air-to-surface missiles and hundreds of artillery shells at mostly civilian targets including government buildings and educational institutions, dozens of private homes, six bridges and a number of roads, and hundreds of acres of agricultural land, destroying them.xiii xiv

According to the United Nations, in 2007, absent of any meaningful improvement, the Palestinian economy as a whole will be 35 percent smaller than it was in 2005, falling to its level in 1991, and over half the labor force will be unemployed.xv The UN recently published projections on the impact of reduced international aid on the Palestinian economy. Using 2005 as its basis of comparison, the projections assume a 30-50 percent reduction in aid (and with it public expenditures), a 50-100 percent increase in restrictions on trade, and a 10-20 percent increase in restrictions on labor flows to Israel. Under the worst-case scenario, which is not unlikely, the losses in GDP between 2006 and 2008 could reach $5.4 billion, which exceeds the Palestinian GDP in 2005. Eighty-four percent of total jobs available in 2005 could be lost.xvi Even under a better case scenario, writes Raja Khalidi, an economist at UNCTAD, “the Palestinian economy will implode to levels not witnessed for a generation.”xvii

The Population Factor

Gaza's problem is not only one of occupation but of population and this vital to understand. Today, there are more than 1.4 million Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip: by 2010 the figure will be close to two million. Gaza has the highest birthrate in the region – 5.5 to 6.0 children per woman – and the population grows by 3 to 5 percent annually. Eighty percent of the population is under 50 and 50 percent is 15 years old or younger. The half of the territory in which the population is concentrated has one of the highest densities in the world. In the Jabalya refugee camp alone, there are 74,000 people per square kilometer, compared with 25,000 in Manhattan.

According to the latest data produced by Harvard University’s 2010 Project, with an annual growth rate of between 3.45 and 3.5 percent, Gaza's population of 1,330,000 people will reach 1,590,000 by 2010 and 2,660,000 by 2028, doubling its current size. By 2010, furthermore, the adult population, relative to that of youth, will grow by 24 percent, placing added pressures on the job and housing markets.xviii If growing numbers of people are unable to secure work or housing, both of which are key to marriage and family structure, the resulting and widening gap between supply and demand will lead to greater violence and with it the continued militarization of society. Hence, population trends will be a major factor determining the socioeconomic wellbeing, or lack thereof, of the Gaza Strip. And even with an immediate decline in fertility, Gaza's young population will grow for at least a generation (because of the size of the upcoming cohorts).xix

The combination of a growing population and shifting age structure places enormous pressures on public services, especially education and health. In education, for example, population growth alone—without any improvement in the quality of services—will require 1,517 more teachers and 984 new classrooms over the next four years. Similarly, if Gaza's educational system is to reach current standards in the West Bank, it needs at least 7,500 additional teachers and 4,700 new classrooms. And if the Gaza Strip is to just maintain current levels of access to health services in 2010, it will need 425 more physicians, 520 additional nurses and 465 new hospital beds.xx

An Economic Forecast

The resulting damage—both present and future—cannot be undone simply by 'returning' Gaza's lands, removing 9,000 Israeli settlers, and allowing Palestinians freedom of movement and the right to build factories within an enlarged but isolated and encircled Gaza. Gaza's many problems cannot be addressed when its burgeoning population is confined within a physically constrained territory of limited resources. Density is not just a problem of people but of access to resources, especially labor markets. Without external access to jobs and the right to emigrate, something the Gaza Disengagement Plan and Olmert's realignment plan effectively deny, the Strip will remain a prison unable to engage in any form of economic development.

Indeed, in 2005, the international community (through the Ad Hoc Liason Committee) concluded that the most important factor in Palestine's economic decline is not reduced aid levels but movement and access restrictions and the suspension of revenue transfers. In fact, they concluded that in the continued absence of a political settlement (that would allow greater movement into Israel and beyond), international aid can only help Palestinians survive and nothing else.

The urgency of Gaza’s plight is considerable for as Raja Khalidi writes, “Even assuming a full return of donor support and the relaxation of mobility restrictions by 2008, GDP and employment losses would continue to accumulate. This suggests that today’s declines will have harmful, long-lasting effects on the economy that will persist even if adverse conditions are alleviated later on.”xxi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------i The White House, Office of the Press Secretary, “President Bush Commends Israeli Prime Minister Sharon’s Plan,” 14 April 2004, http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040414-4.html.
ii See my analysis of the disengagement agreement, in Sara Roy, “A Dubai on the Mediterranean,” The London Review of Books, November 2005.
iii Ministry of National Economy and Ministry of Planning, Gaza Strip Economic Development Strategy, The Palestinian National Authority, September 2005.
iv Ibid.
v Roy, “A Dubai on the Mediterranean.”
vi Samar Assad, “Forecast for Palestinian Economic Survival,” Palestine Center Information Brief No. 135, 18 April 2006.
vii United Nations, The Humanitarian Monitor—occupied Palestinian territory, Number 4, August 2006, p. 1.
viii Program on Humanitarian Policy and Conflict Research, Harvard University, Gaza 2010: human security needs in the Gaza Strip, Population Projections for Socioeconomic Development in the Gaza Strip, Working Paper #1, May 2006, Cambridge, MA, p. 18.
ix OCHA, Situation Report: The Gaza Strip, 3 May 2006
x United Nations, The Humanitarian Monitor, p. 7.
xi Harvard University, Population Projections for Socioeconomic Development in the Gaza Strip, p. 15.
xii Steven Erlanger, “As Parents Go Unpaid, Gaza Children Go Hungry,” The New York Times, 14 September 2006, p. A11.
xiii Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR), Weekly Report: A Special Issue on the 6th Anniversary of the al-Aqsa Intifada, No. 38/2006, 21-27 September 2006, p. 2.
xiv Palestinian National Initiative, The Forgotten People: The Despair of Gaza One Year After the ‘Disengagement’, 14 September 2006. http://www.amin.org.
xv Raja Khalidi, “Palestinian collapse hurts all,” Ha’aretz, 17 September 2006.
xvi Ibid.
xvii Ibid.
xviii Harvard University, Population Projections for Socioeconomic Development in the Gaza Strip, pp. 13-16, 20.
xix Ibid, p. 13.
xx Ibid, p. 21.
xxi Raja Khalidi, “Palestinian collapse hurts all.”

[Douglas Carpenter]

39. (“Movement and Access from Gaza”) signed on 15 Nov 2005

“The crossings agreement (“Movement and Access from Gaza”) signed on 15 November 2005 specified that Rafah crossing would be used for the passage of people in and out of Gaza—but that goods, vehicles and trucks to and from Egypt would have to pass through the Israeli crossing at Kerem Shalom, under full Israeli supervision. As far as people traffic is concerned, entry to the Strip would be permitted only to those holding Palestinian ID. Any foreign nationals would only be allowed to enter “by exception in agreed categories with prior notification to the Government of Israel….The Palestinian Authority will notify the Government of Israel 48 hours in advance of a person in the excepted categories—diplomats, foreign investors, foreign representatives of recognized international organizations and humanitarian cases…….Although there would be no direct Israeli presence in the Rafah crossing, it was agreed that “cameras will be installed to monitor the search process, so that Israel would be able to monitor all movement from its inspection point to a few kilometers away. Effectively, therefore, entry to the Gaza Strip would continue to remain under Israeli control.” Pages 134-135

“The Gaza Strip depends economically on its contact with the West Bank, which involves trucks and goods passing through Erez and Karni crossing on the Gaza-Israel border, making their way to the West Bank through Israel. According to the World Bank’s representative in the occupied territories, Nigel Roberts, “before the Intifada broke out…some 225 trucks a day passed through the crossings, compared to only 35 a day in the six months prior to disengagement. Since the disengagement, however, the situation deteriorated even further…only about a dozen trucks per day have bee allowed into Israel to travel to the West Bank.” Page 136

“The 15 November 2005 agreement did indeed specify that “Israel will allow passage of convoys (to and from Gaza and to and from the West Bank). However this plan was frozen. “Saeb Erekat, the Palestinian negotiator, said he was disgusted with the situation. There’s no security issue for Israel.” He said. “They will have names submitted in advance, they (Israel) screen the passengers, no one leaves the bused and they’re escorted by Israel to Tarquimiya (in the south of the West Bank)….And how should the Palestinians expect to make an agreement if someone so high up as (Secretary of State) Rice arranges something of so little risk to Israel and nothing happens?” page 137

“The situation in Gaza remained as Mahmoud Abbas described it shortly after the Israeli pullout: “ The Strip is one large prison, and the army’s departure does not change this situation” page 138

from -- The Road Map to Nowhere -- by Professor Tanya Reinhart of Tel Aviv University

Amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/Road-Map-Nowhere-Israel-Palestine/dp/1844670767/ref=sr_11_1/002-4750258-7334423?ie=UTF8