More Palestinian missile strikes on Jewish settlements

[bemildred]

GAZA, Nov 2 (KUNA) -- The Brigades of Al-Aqsa Martyrs, the military arm of Fateh movement, on Thursday announced responsibility for firing two missiles on Kfar Ezeh settlement, east of Gaza City.

The brigades said in a press release that the missile strike comes in response for the Israeli aggression on Beit Hanoun in northern Gaza Strip.

Meanwhile, the Brigades of Ezzuddine Al-Qassam, the military arm of Hamas movement, announced that it fired two "Qassam" type missiles towards Sderot in southern Israel.

The Brigades of National Resistance, the military arm of the Democratic Front for Liberating Palestine, and the Brigades of Al-Aqsa Martyrs announced joint responsibility for firing two missiles on Sderot earlier this afternoon.

KUNA

[shance]

1. But who is actually firing the "Palestinian" missiles?

Cui bono?

[Recursion]

2. Angry Palestinians n/t

[shance]

7. Not buying and/or believing. Palestinians do not stand to benefit.

Nor do Israeli citizens.

However, the war profiteers and those who are profitting off of the chaos and continuous turmoil do profit.

[Recursion]

9. Yes, because all the people in that region...

...have been shown time and time again to act rationally and in their best interest.

:eyes:

If you don't believe that Palestinians are also engaging in violence towards the Israelis, I'm not sure what there is left to say.

[ThomCat]

3. How soon until Israeli supporters insist that this

was unprovoked?

I think it's evil to be lobbing missiles into a settlement. It was provoked by long term systematic violence and human rights violations, and it's going to be used as a justification for much more of the same.
x(

[bemildred]

4. Not a pretty picture, is it?

Neither side seems to have very good aim, either.

[Recursion]

12. Funny... I was going to ask...

..."how long until Hamas/Al Aqsa supporters insist that this was provoked?"

The language of blame, provocation, and response is what's keeping that area locked in violence. We need to break it, which means not talking about "response" or "provocations" or "retaliation" (or even "history") anymore.

[pelsar]

13. the Breaking of the cycle of violence was tried....

it failed. Israel left gaza...destroyed the settlements, left the greenhouses.....it was a major change in policy, it gave the palestenains a real chance at doing something positive, (on a national scale)..instead of "returning the gesture" with something positive...they launched 30 kassams and have kept it up continually in various quantities since.....

[ThomCat]

14. B.S.

Israel never stopped stealing land and water. Never stopped bulldozing homes and killing civilians. Never stopped rounding up hundreds and thousands of civilians and locking them up in jail indefinitely. This idea that Israel was so benevolent is PR and doesn't match the actions on the ground.

[pelsar]

18. gaza?...

need i say more.....israel left....no more bulldozing of homes, no more killing .....all the palestenians had to do was start building...instead they had to keep on trying to kill israelis from the destroyed settlements.....(and other areas....)

dumb idea......

[cali]

5. I'm a bit confused

I think of Settlements as illegal Israeli outposts on Palestinian land- and I do think all of those settlements are illegal, but Sderot is an Israeli city within Israel proper, and in fact, anything fired from Gaza would be aimed at Israel proper and not at Settlements.

[breakaleg]

6. I'm confused by this as well.

[pelsar]

8. its not confusing at all....

when israel left gaza as when it left lebanon, it was simply not good enough for some....and those "some" are protected by the various political groups for various reasons, at various times, those same people receive funding from both outside as well as inside the PA...

but more so..and this is the heart of the matter, when Israel left gaza, nobody in the PA could figure out how to reeducate the population to start building a society, infact they didnt even try.....(it would have been a far more difficult task than destroying and depending upon others for ones bread).

hence the kassams on israel, the destrucition of the greenhouses, the attacks on the egyptians, on Karmi, the flourshing tunnel smuggling business, etc

and maybe its getting a bit clearer for some...these wars are not about post 67 settlements....never was, one just has to really listen to the palestenians and friends and see who their attacking (all of israel...)

[Recursion]

10. Why is it confusing?

The small, hyper-militant Palestinian minority that actually takes the time and expense to acquire and launch rockets is the same small, hyper-militant Palestinian minority that does not recognize such an idea as "Israel proper" (it's all Palestine to them).

Which, incidentally, is why I think that, as wrong as the settlements are, they are a red-herring since the real problem is a vocal, energetic, and well-armed portion of the Palestinian population that does not believe Israel should exist as a state. As long as people think that way, resolving the settlements issue just gives them better launchpads.

[pelsar]

11. thats the reality of it....

Which, incidentally, is why I think that, as wrong as the settlements are, they are a red-herring since the real problem is a vocal, energetic, and well-armed portion of the Palestinian population that does not believe Israel should exist as a state

and that is precisly what most israelis now believe....having seen/heard/felt the kassams and katushas where the border is the 67 border, which is why there is no pressure from israelis to remove the settlements on the westbank...better launching pads, more complex military environment will not make for a better peace....

[Tom Joad]

15. When has there been pressure to remove the settlements?

there has never been pressure to remove the settlements. Not since war-criminal-now-comatose Sharon started them.

[pelsar]

16. my, how we forget when its convenient.....

but "forgetfullness aside"....pre gaza pullout much of the israeli left put pressure on the govt for the pullout of the westbank and in fact several smaller beginning settlements were removed.

just onn example:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/mideast_06-09-03.html

now then...can we expect an "admittance of mistake"....or something similar?....and like i mentioned, whatever pressure there was to remove settlements for the sake of peace has long disappeared from the israeli horizon. The palestenains have made it clear what they're plans are (gaza anyone, Lebanon?).....only the willful blind refuse to see it.

[Lithos]

17. Aren't the Palestinians in the West Bank a bit different

Than the ones in Gaza? I'm under the impression the political forces are extremely different between the two territories.

L-

[pelsar]

19. very different....

not just different political forces as play but different cultures. Gaza is Egyptian oriented (laws are based on Egypt, westbank is based on jordans-a real mess). Arafat once brought in some gazans into the westbank for some law enforcement...didnt work, and they had to be returned. In general the westbankers look "down upon" the gazans. There is also a stronger connection to israel (universities etc)

Way beyond what we read in the papers, the political games involved clans (bedouin, muslim, city, country)/geographic areas, histories make for large culture differences between the two areas.

If your asking will the westbanker react differently to an israeli pullout...a valid question. Whereas some areas would definitly welcome it and simply celebrate it by getting back to the business of "making a living" (this was also true of gaza)......that wouldnt be enough to stop the kassams and mortars. The peer pressure to attack israel is one of the defining and connecting factors between the two areas.

[Lithos]

20. Yeah that's what I thought

Knew about the cultural differences, but it never dawned on me the legal systems might be different.

Yes, the thought in the back of my mind concerns how a pull out in the West Bank would fare. Wondering if the best way would be to start as far away from 1967 Israel and work towards the 1967 border in order to allow for a cultural shift/release mechanism. Gaza was more or less an all or nothing thing which I think may have not allowed for any transition to happen. (Quick release of tension is a bomb, slow release is a tea kettle - lots of noise, but little pressure).

L-

[pelsar]

23. a partial-staged pullout....

this actually came out pregaza.....and it was good that it wasnt done. Imagine israel pulled out of the north gaza.....the jihadnikim quickly move in and use the ex settlements as launch pads (as they did after the complete pullout).

that would then end the pullout. The settlers, their supporters, would explain, and they would be right, that further pullouts would mean additional launch pads for the jihadnikm plus lack of IDF control...no bases within Gaza which then restrict the transfer of weaponry, the building of the kassams etc.

the situation would have been worse with each side being able to "prove" that they are right. Israel hasnt pulled out, hence the justification for the kassams, and for israelis, the partial pullout, showed their intent and the palestenians intent as well.

today with the full pullout, except for those who dont want to see, its clear that the settlements in gaza were not the problem. And whether or not others see it, for us israelis the gaza pullout and the Hizballas missles made it perfectly clear what awaits us with a westbank pullout. (at least in the immediate future)

___________________________
btw, during oslo the IDF would pullback out of palestenain cities, with the idea that the PA would take control....and we would then receieve suicide bombers from those cities, so the IDF would then move back in, eliminate the suicide bombers...and pull back out again.... This see saw went on for about a year, ending with the invasion of jenin.

[Lithos]

25. Was talking about the West Bank

Gaza was so small there really was no other way to handle it. First open up the areas not too far from Jordan where the militants would not be able to do much due to distance and range considerations. Let this be the tension release as you slowly add to it.

L-

[Tom Joad]

21. Only if you can point to one something where there is pressure to

dismantle ALL the settlements, becuase they are all Illegal. Of course there was pressure to remove these tiny scattered settlements, very difficult to defend and provide services for.

Somehow there has been confusion because it has been said "Olmert was planning on leaving the West Bank, but the Palestinians blew it" meme. Never, never, was Olmert planning to leave the West Bank.

Where is the push to dismantle the Ariel settlement, for example?
I know there are groups in Israel that do in fact promote the dismantaling of all settlements. They are not part of the mainstream, at least not part of this government that brought us "Kill the Arab MKs!" Lieberman.

[pelsar]

22. why would israel disamantle the settlements?

the palestenians have made it very clear, as have their brethren in iran and s.lebanon (who are now teaching and passing on money to palestenians) that the settlements are not the problem....and infact dismanteling the settlements would only provide better launching pads.


or perhaps you can explain how islamic jihad WONT launch rockets in to afula hader, intl airport...and lets just pretend that they do...what would you expect israel to do about it..if anything?

and footnote: the mainstream both left and right understand the above, those who dont, can never seem to answer the question that the mainstream of israel asks:

whats the answer to kassams/katushas/mortars on our cities from gaza and the westbank?......never answered here in the years i've been...but given that i believe in communication as an important part of problem solving ...i shall ask again.......

waiting patiently for an answer....

[Tom Joad]

26. The occupation of Gaza and the West Bank Continues....

Sow violence, reap violence.
A very tragic and sad story.

[pelsar]

27. yep....

launch rockets at your neighbor.....shouldnt be dumb enough to expect them to do nothing

of course entering a discussion as to why they did that...i guess is too sensitive...it touches upon the holies of holies- the 67 border fallacy

[pelsar]

24. your comment is actually not true...

Of course there was pressure to remove these tiny scattered settlements, very difficult to defend and provide services for.

some of those settlements were next to larger established ones...nor have i ever heard of any kind of problem in providing service or defending any of the others....did you just make that up?..........NEXT EXCUSE!