NYT: Israeli troops kill 2 women shielding militants

[oblivious]

Israeli troops kill 2 women shielding militants
The New York Times
Published: November 3, 2006

JERUSALEM: Israeli troops fired at a large crowd of unarmed Palestinian women in the Gaza Strip Friday as the women approached a mosque to help Palestinian militants holed up inside. Two women were killed and about 10 injured, hospitals said, in a shooting that provoked widespread outrage among Palestinians.

...Early this morning, a Palestinian radio station called on women to march to the mosque to support the gunmen inside. A short time later, hundreds of women, dressed in flowing black abayas and wearing head scarves, headed toward it.

As they approached the mosque, shots rang out, but the women continued marching. A moment later, a number of women were hit, and the crowd scattered. Some of the wailing women turning back, while others kept advancing toward the mosque, climbing over improvised dirt barriers set up by the Israeli forces.

"We heard the call for women to help the fighters, and we decided to go," said Mona Abu Jasir, 37, who was hit by a bullet in the right leg. "We had no weapons, and we were walking toward the mosque when I was shot." Television footage showed at least one man in the crowd, though there was no indication he had a weapon. The man was shot and fell to the ground, and was surrounded by women until rescue workers arrived.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/03/africa/web.1103mideast.php

Gunfire leaves veiled woman dead on a Gaza street
03 Nov 2006 09:00:54 GMT
Source: Reuters

BEIT HANOUN, Gaza, Nov 3 (Reuters) - Slowly at first, then with growing confidence, the crowd of Palestinian women, all wearing traditional hijab gowns and coloured veils, approached the outer wall of the Gaza mosque.

Inside, 60 Palestinian gunmen were hiding out, pinned down by Israeli tanks and troops positioned just a few hundred yards away, on the other side of an earth barricade.

The women, around four dozen of them, some elderly and some teenagers, were hoping to help the gunmen flee, or at least act as "human shields" and press for their release unharmed.

As they walked together down a deserted road towards the mosque, pressing themselves up against a high sandstone wall on their right, with Israeli troops off to their left, gunfire rang out from the Israeli positions.

The women pushed on, walking faster and pressing closer together, chattering encouragement to one another as they went.

More shots cracked overhead as the Israeli troops tried to force the women to turn back. Some did turn around, but others, the majority, pushed on.

Then, up ahead, where the front of the procession was advancing, several gunshots rang out from Israeli troops and one woman, dressed in a tan-brown hijab, fell to the ground.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L03880671.htm
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/women-left-dead-as-gunmen-escape/2006/11/03/1162340055603.html
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=newsOne&storyID=2006-11-03T113840Z_01_L12263400_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST.xml&WTmodLoc=Home-C1-TopStories-newsOne-2

Palestinian Authority Terrorists Use Female Shields Against IDF
14:05 Nov 03, '06

Palestinian Authority terrorists used women to protect them from arrest by IDF soldiers – at the cost of life -- on Friday. One woman died in Gaza.

Arab women in northern Gaza were urged in a radio broadcast Friday morning to go to a mosque in Beit Hanoun to serve as ‘human shields’ for gunmen holed up in the Muslim religious building surrounded by IDF forces.

According to military sources a number of Arab terrorists who were wanted for Kassam rocket attacks had taken refuge in the mosque, which was also used as a storehouse for weapons and other materials.

The women rushed to the building despite the exchange of gunfire between the terrorists and IDF soldiers. Local sources claimed that IDF soldiers opened fire on the women, killing one and wounding ten others. An army spokesman explained that the soldiers had exchanged gunfire with terrorists standing among the women rioters at the scene.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=114791

Women set up "human shield" for fleeing fighters but one falls
MIL-3LD MIDEAST-UNREST-SIEGE
Women set up "human shield" for fleeing fighters but one falls

GAZA, Nov 3 (KUNA) -- Braving gunfire volleys fired by Israeli troops that besieged scores of Palestinian fighters in a mosque in the north Gazan town of Beit Hanoun on Friday, hundreds of Palestinian women rushed to the scene creating a "human shield" that enabled many of the gunmen to break the dragnet and get away unharmed.

A spokesman of the Israeli Army told Israel Radio that one of the hundreds of the women who gathered in the mosque vicinity challenging the heavily-armed regulars was shot dead while ten others were wounded in the confrontation between the soldiers and the unarmed women.
http://www.kuna.net.kw/home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=918071

[oblivious]

1. Whoops. Dupe. Sorry.

[razors edge]

2. More, same incident I think.

A wounded Palestinian woman lies on the ground as others run for cover after an Israeli tank opened fire at them at Beit Hanoun town in northern Gaza strip, November 3, 2006. (Suhaib Salem/Reuters)

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/061103/photos_ts/2006_11_03t040719_450x263_us_mideast

[msmcghee]

3. I notice that none of the paragraphs copied from . .

. . your news sources shows this:

One marcher, Suhad el-Masri, 28, said she and several of her relatives were carrying abayas - long flowing gowns - and scarves to give to the men. "We took them so they could disguise themselves as women and escape," said Ms. Masri. Her sister, Hiba Rajab, 20, was shot in both legs and her left arm and sustained serious injuries.

In the ensuing chaos, some women reached the mosque, and the gunmen managed to slip away, the Israeli military and Palestinian witnesses said. It was not clear whether the gunmen dressed as women to facilitate their escape. Shortly after the standoff ended, the roof of the mosque collapsed, apparently from the cumulative damage sustained in the fighting.

In order to have useful discussions about these things it is important when observing these events to look objectively at what is occurring . . and not simply at partial evidence that leaves the impression that Israel (in this case) are the killers of innocent women.

I realize that to some here Israel could do nothing that would not be the target of their scorn and hatred. But, in this case it is remarkable to me that only two women were killed while trying to help the terrorists escape by walking in front of the IDF guns to bring them disguises to escape in. From these reports it seems apparent that if the IDF had simply shot most of the women before they got to the mosque that the gunmen probably would not have escaped. I congratulate the IDF for their restraint.

I have no doubt that if these women had attempted to help some opposition Palestinian gunmen inside a mosque escape from a Hamas brigade - most of them would be dead by now - and probably their children and families as well. I suspect that's why you never hear of Palestinian women doing such a foolish thing when it's an Arab vs. Arab fight.

The IDF was attempting to disrupt the missiles being fired daily into Israeli from this town near the northern border of Gaza by capturing those responsible. Let's try to keep some perspective.

[breakaleg]

4. IDF opening shooting a bunch of unarmed women is insane.

Is there no line they will not cross?

[Behind the Aegis]

5. Hiding in a holy building among unarmed women, then...

...dressing up as women to escape and leaving the unarmed women behind...is there no line that the militants will not cross?

[breakaleg]

6. The news reports say the women came of their own accord.

The image created when using the term human shield is one of a woman taken by gunpoint, through no choice of her own.

Anyway, they killed a 4 year old child and a 40 year old woman. You find this defend-able somehow?

[Behind the Aegis]

7. So what?

The militants didn't stop firing, nor did they tell the women to leave! They willingly used the opportunity to "hide behind the skirts of unarmed women," then fled dressed as them!

"Anyway, they killed a 4 year old child and a 40 year old woman. You find this defend-able somehow?"

:eyes: Where did I say innocent deaths are 'defend-able?' Way to change the subject from "hiding among civilians,' to false accusations of excusing the deaths of innocents.

[oblivious]

20. "then fled dressed as them" - I missed that in the reports.

It seems that was the women's intention but they were fired upon as they approached the mosque.

Only the NYT article suggests that possibility in para 11:

"It was not clear whether the gunmen dressed as women to facilitate their escape."

[Behind the Aegis]

21. That was from the article I originally posted here.

As the women rushed away from the scene, at least two men disguised in women's clothes were seen in the crowd. Jubilant bystanders embraced them, celebrating their escape.

"Our fighters made holes through the nearby houses to the mosque. The women entered the mosque as the fighters managed to guide the gunmen out," said Hamas militant commander Abu Ubaida.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/783577.html

[oblivious]

24. Yes, LA Times also mentions it. Seems the IDF lied about men in the crowd when they started shooting

Women break up standoff in Gaza

GAZA CITY — About 200 veiled Palestinian women broke through an Israeli troop and tank cordon around a mosque Friday to serve as human shields for dozens of armed militants.

The militants, some dressed in women's clothes, escaped but two of the women were killed by Israeli fire, and another 17 listed as wounded, on one of the deadliest days of fighting in the coastal territory this year.

...After a frantic night of organizing, coordinated by cell phone with the gunmen in the mosque, the women marched Friday morning from the neighboring town of Beit Lahiya to take up their mission as shields. They brought extra robes and veils to disguise some of the 73 militants as women during their flight. "We risked our lives to save our sons," said Jamela Shanti, 45, a member of the Palestinian parliament and an organizer of the rescue operation.

The lead group of women approached the besieged mosque on foot, shouting at the Israelis to leave Gaza. Israeli soldiers turned from the mosque and opened fire. One woman, Ibtesam Masoud, 42, died at the scene and another, who was not identified, died in a hospital several hours later, Palestinian medical officials said.

An Israeli army spokesman said soldiers had spotted two male militants hiding among the women and fired at them. Footage filmed by Reuters and other news organizations showed no men in the crowd at the time.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650204244,00.html

[Phx_Dem]

9. A Hamas radio station put out a call for "human shields"

"A Hamas radio station in Gaza broadcast a call Friday to northern Gaza women to go to the mosque to serve as 'human shields' for the gunmen."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3323131,00.html

[breakaleg]

10. And the women went willingly.

This fight is inherently unfair. It doesn't make any sense to watch one side go in there with helicopter gunships and tanks and to criticize the other for trying to get away.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

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[breakaleg]

12. Do you mean that the IDF was inside Palestinian territory with snipers

on rooftops shooting people in the street and it's all the Palestinians' fault? How so? Is Israel responsible for anything? Because apparently, they aren't responsible for the lives of the people they've killed.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[breakaleg]

18. perhaps they wouldn't have died if they hadn't been shot at by Israeli troops

[Behind the Aegis]

19. Perhaps there wouldn't have been Israeli troops there...

...had they not engaged in continuous missile attacks on Israel proper and kidnapping a soldier!

[applegrove]

8. Anyone who used civilians or villages to shield themselves should

be considered a war criminal. Palestinian Women who run to a scene ..that is mob violence. And terrorism in reverse. But terrorism still.

[Tom Joad]

15. Everyone in Palestine resists the brutal Israeli occupation...

That is their right.

[pelsar]

16. a summary:

Palestinians launch kassams and try to kill israelis:

the IDF instead of using artillery, ariel bombs, etc goes in using infantry to capture those trying to kill israelis within the 67 border.

the militants are trapped in a mosque and shooting from the mosque

the IDF does not blow it but attempts to keep them alive an arrest them, despite a gun battle.

hamas calls out for women to go and bring the men out wearing womens clothing.

in the middle of a gun battle the women enter between the sides, in the combat zone to protect the men and help them escape....and some get shot.

_________________

reaction from those at the DU: israel is wrong, and should not attack Palestinians and if the consequence is that the kassams are aimed better and kill israelis...thats the preferred situation (i doubt any of the pro palestenians will have a useful suggestion for the Israelis in terms of gaza...they never do, they're always silent on the subject.....

________________

lesson for the IDF:
being PC is a losing proposition: its preferable to go back and use artillery, helicopter gunships and commando raids/snipers, whatever it takes to limit the kassams from killing israelis...perhaps one day the palestenians might decide to change tactics and try not trying to kill us.
_______________

and i find the responses from breakaleg and tom very clear and to the point: what it comes down to is: the IDF has no right to stop the launching of kassams, that is the right of the palestenians. (which translates into the obvious)......killing israelis is their right.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[Lurking Dem]

23. The GOT out of Gaza

and were rewarded that very day with rockets.

So Israelis should hunker down and put their arms over their heads and wait to die? is that the only solution you see as workable?

[Tom Joad]

25. They surrounded Gaza, and it has been on lockdown for months

Free the Gaza 1 million!

[Tom Joad]

26. IDF does not always kill unarmed women. Sometimes it kills little girls too.

27 Palestinians killed in IDF Gaza raids over weekend
By Avi Issacharoff and Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondents, Haaretz Service and News Agencies

A 12-year-old girl was killed Saturday evening by Israel Defense Forces sniper fire in the northern Gaza Strip town of Beit Hanun, bringing to 27 the Palestinian death toll in Gaza since the start of the weekend.
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/783577.html

[Lithos]

27. Locking

I'll clean this up later. People please remember to discuss the issue and avoid the personally directed commentary.

Lithos
DU Moderator